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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
33
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
For those of short attention spans, I will start with my main points.
I propose the following changes to mining:
1. CharGÇÖs in NPC corps mine at a reduced rate. a.Chars with less than 1 million SPGÇÖs are not effected (or put it into affect once mining barge 1 is trained)
2. Chars in NPC corps have object collision with mining barges or ships in general turned off
3. Noc and Iso moved to low sec and null
Point #1 GÇô players in NPC corps have very low risks. They can smack talk all day long or bot-mine all day long and there really is not much recourse except for ganking (which is not profitable) or bumping (which is slowing building to a point that it is out of hand and needs a nerf thanks to James). Reducing the yield of mining lasers for those in NPC corps does several things:
1. It still allows bots so CCP can still make money on their sub fees but they mine less so they will have to decide on reduced yield or become war-decable.
2. It still allows newer players the ability to mine, just reduces yield
3. It provides motivation for people to move to player corps
Some care needs to be taken with new players. Allow them enough skill points to get in a retriever before the effect hits them so they have time to grow and learn the game. Once you get to a barge, it takes effect. Maybe it can be tied into completion of mining barge one.
Point #2 GÇô Just like ganking was taken a bit too far by declaring it all year round, the bumping thing is just as much of an exploit. IGÇÖm all for bumping in a player corp but hiding behind an NPC corp leads to asshatery. Being in an NPC corp makes you immune to the in-game punishment (war-decing). One option might be to get rid of the second NPC corp and once a player leaves a corp, they are put into a solo corp based on their player name. Make that corp war-decable. Just make it so that those solo corps have no advantages and are not allowed to grow beyond one person and cannot anchor POSGÇÖs.
Point #3 GÇô There is currently no good reason to go to low-sec. The mining sucks and the gatecamps are plenty. Then throw in the random pirate that likes to AFK cloak and suddenly you have entire systems that are pretty worthless to the average industrialist. Move Iso and Noc to low sec and you solve several issues, builders will have to go there or deal with someone in low or null to get what they need. Trit and Pyr will go down in price due to that being about all you can mine in high. The end result is high-sec miners would make less ISK and there would be a purpose to low besides capital ship storage.
On a side note, I am a miner. I'm not saying that these ideas are perfect but I am acknowledging that there are some issues with high-sec mining. Unlike the opposition, my feelings are the troubles with high-sec mining all stem from NPC corps. Once people are in player corps, there is a war-dec system in place to keep people flying right. I dont have any issues with a guy who wants to sit in a player corp and mine to make 30 million an hour. I dont know why other people find this an issue. A miner could easily go to null and moon-mine or rat and make several times this amount. If a person wants to mine in high-sec why the hate? On the other side of the coin, I agree botting and asshatery hiding behind an NPC corp needs to be addressed. Keep the sandbox and let people play the way they want. Lose the protection that NPC corps provide. |
C O'Brien
Android Gang Stealth Syndicate
9
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stupid idea is stupid, IMO.(And I don't mine) |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Somebody is upset that their favorite mining grounds are over mined. Cutting into your profits I guess. Why should high sec be any different than null sec? Resources should be limited and a then something to fight over. That is what wars are all about.
NPC corps have their own built in nerfs already. Stupid to add more just because your mining ground problems. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2644
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:or bumping (which is slowing building to a point that it is out of hand and needs a nerf thanks to James). Excuse me? Since when was I so powerful that I needed my own nerf?
Seriously though, all miners need to do is follow the Code and they'll have like a 00.0001% chance of being bumped. Not out of hand at all.
ETA: Posting in a "nerf James 315" thread!
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
33
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Excuse me? Since when was I so powerful that I needed my own nerf?
I know from your site that you feel you are the "Saviour of Highsec, I am the leader of the civilizing forces" but seriously, do you really feel you are the only person who bumps miners? |
stoicfaux
1544
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
High sec mining is low risk and low profit. How is that a problem?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:High sec mining is low risk and low profit. How is that a problem?
Are botters a problem or is ok to bot in highsec behind an NPC corp? |
Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Somebody is upset that their favorite mining grounds are over mined. Cutting into your profits I guess. Why should high sec be any different than null sec? Resources should be limited and a then something to fight over. That is what wars are all about.
NPC corps have their own built in nerfs already. Stupid to add more just because your mining ground problems.
You sure are making a powerful assumption there that my post is based on me losing my mining grounds. I guess if your assumption is wrong then your conclusion is wrong as well. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2644
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:James 315 wrote:Excuse me? Since when was I so powerful that I needed my own nerf? I know from your site that you feel you are the "Saviour of Highsec, I am the leader of the civilizing forces" but seriously, do you really feel you are the only person who bumps miners? Of course not. Agents of the New Order also bump. But it was you yourself who said the following:
Quote:bumping (which is slowing building to a point that it is out of hand and needs a nerf thanks to James)
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
C O'Brien wrote:Stupid idea is stupid, IMO.(And I don't mine)
After reading your post and giving it some serious thought I have come to the conclusion that most of us would be better off if you didnt post anymore. |
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dont let your ego get all excited James. I was simply saying that you have brought the issue out into the open for all to see. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2644
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:Dont let your ego get all excited James. I was simply saying that you have brought the issue out into the open for all to see. Of course I did. That's part of what I do, help people see what would otherwise go unseen.
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Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1747
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Volar Kang wrote:Dont let your ego get all excited James. I was simply saying that you have brought the issue out into the open for all to see. Of course I did. That's part of what I do, help people see what would otherwise go unseen.
All you've done is shown the EVE community that you're a crybaby who thinks the game needs to play the way you demand it does. Your constant "nerf high sec" nonsense is annoying and not needed. It's pretty much just useless spam at this point. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2050
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Volar Kang wrote:Dont let your ego get all excited James. I was simply saying that you have brought the issue out into the open for all to see. Of course I did. That's part of what I do, help people see what would otherwise go unseen.
And that's why he's up for CSM "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm all for the cause of bringing the issue to light and if someday you decide to stop doing the exact same thing that you say you are against, I may even join the new order and place a picture of you above my desk. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2644
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:All you've done is shown the EVE community that you're a crybaby who thinks the game needs to play the way you demand it does. Your constant "nerf high sec" nonsense is annoying and not needed. It's pretty much just useless spam at this point. Analyst? Truth-Seeker? Commentator? Game Doctor?
All of the above, but "crybaby"? Never.
However, I do hold EVE players up to a higher standard than the EULA, which is perfectly in keeping with the sandbox concept of EVE.
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ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
After reading your post and giving it some serious thought I have come to the conclusion that most of us would be better off if you didnt post anymore.
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James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2644
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 01:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:I'm all for the cause of bringing the issue to light and if someday you decide to stop doing the exact same thing that you say you are against, I may even join the new order and place a picture of you above my desk. What do I say that I am against that I do?
Since you brought it up, my two-month anniversary portrait is suitable for framing.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
889
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yet another self-entitled whiner going on because the game is not played their way, and they have WAY too much time to sit around and forum post instead of actually playing the game.
In the time it took you to compose and type that I KNOW I've made 20M ISK.
This is beyond old. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2050
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Yet another self-entitled whiner going on because the game is not played their way, and they have WAY too much time to sit around and forum post instead of actually playing the game.
In the time it took you to compose and type that I KNOW I've made 20M ISK.
This is beyond old.
Ooooh well excuse me Mr. Millionaire "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Moving some minerals into low/null sec will only create more wealth for larger corps/alliances who can protect their barges in low/null and you might slightly increase the number of ninja miners. Most highsec miners will stay in highsec and the price of those minerals will drop cause they're the minerals everyone will be mining.
It wont change how many people are mining in highsec. If you're trying to get more people mining in low sec? well then, good luck with that. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
889
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote: A miner could easily go to null and moon-mine or rat and make several times this amount.
^^^^ and this. Say WHAT ?? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
889
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Ooooh well excuse me Mr. Millionaire
Wow. Panties are officially in a knot. |
Sorlac
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.09.06 02:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote: Keep the sandbox and let people play the way they want.
This is the only part of you post that matters, and its the only part that I agree with. Of course it also pretty much nullifies the rest of your post since that is about removing some of the sand from the box and limiting the ways for people to play the game in a way that they wish. |
Belshazzar Babylon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Posting in a nerf NPC Corps thread. |
stoicfaux
1546
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:stoicfaux wrote:High sec mining is low risk and low profit. How is that a problem?
Are botters a problem or is ok to bot in highsec behind an NPC corp? Botters are a problem in null and high sec. There is a mechanism and process already in place to report bots. Seems redundant to punish all high-sec miners in the name of anti-botting.
Also, the merits of anti-botting are already covered in a a 160+ page thread in regards to high-sec miner safety: Barge Fairy Tale.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9379
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Congratulations You just sunk your entire post. It was leaking pretty badly before that, especially when you said bots were GÇ£allowedGÇ¥, but that one just put a kiloton warhead shell right through the deck and out the bottom.
Pretty much none of the issues you listed are actual issues, and what's left is contradictory or just flat-out wrong. That is pretty impressive, all told. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Methesda
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.09.06 02:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Goddamit, watching these threads is like watching the funniest slapstick ever.
So many miners up in arms, because they think James is SERIOUS.
Man, it has me in stitches.
Between this and those Lady Spank posts yesterday, I'm genuinely thinking about trying to do something about this community's understanding of the concept of satire.
It's almost perfect in James case. Not only is he mocking the dumb end of the miner spectrum, but doing so in such a way that the very same miner's prove that they cannot be trusted with sensible decision making by rising to the bait. Pure, unadulterated, middle-of-the-road, satire.
/golfclap @ mining forum community.
Do you not realise, that by engaging him, you are *making his point*? |
stoicfaux
1546
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 02:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:For those of short attention spans, I will start with my main points.
I propose the following changes to mining:
1. CharGÇÖs in NPC corps mine at a reduced rate. a.Chars with less than 1 million SPGÇÖs are not effected (or put it into affect once mining barge 1 is trained)
That's pretty arbitrary, which means it probably won't go over well with players. Plus you have to explain to new players in a tutorial why they get auto-nerfed at a million skill points. This is a non-starter just in terms of social dynamics.
Quote:3. Noc and Iso moved to low sec and null Null would make sense, but the only way to make low-sec economically viable (i.e. appealing to a large population) is via security, which is counter to what low-sec is. Meaning, it's hard to run a business when the natives are constantly blowing up your supplies, your goods, and your customers.
Quote:Point #1 GÇô players in NPC corps have very low risks. They can smack talk all day long or bot-mine all day long and there really is not much recourse except for ganking (which is not profitable) or bumping (which is slowing building to a point that it is out of hand and needs a nerf thanks to James). Reducing the yield of mining lasers for those in NPC corps does several things:
In regards to kicking people out of the NPC corps, doing so reduces their access to other players, which is bad in an MMO.
Plus, you're trying to force people to do something they don't want to do... in a sandbox game. It's too heavy handed.
Eve is a sandbox. Some people like to stay in the shallow end of the box, other people like to wander the Sahara, meet new people, and then bury them up to their necks next to a nest of scorpions. Fun means different things to different people, so use more carrots instead of arbitrary rules (aka sticks.)
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.09.06 03:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Yet another self-entitled whiner going on because the game is not played their way, and they have WAY too much time to sit around and forum post instead of actually playing the game.
In the time it took you to compose and type that I KNOW I've made 20M ISK.
This is beyond old.
You are absolutely right. I should never have posted any opinions I have. I will follow in your footsteps and hope that someday I can earn a mighty 20 mill isk like you. |
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