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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jitatolemy Aurilen
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:40:00 -
[1]
Yes i played WOW and loved it for a time. However they began to cater to new players, for the obvious income. While I understand the need for profit and a corporation to grow, Its beginning to smell alot like Blizzard around here.
First, Learning skills, I was happy to see them go, good ridance, but it was a precurser to ...
Agent restructuring and complex changes in 0.0
I dont live in 0.0 so i didnt think much of it at the time, but now i see the isk making plexes removed from null AND the agent restructuring in HS and it all makes sense.
Its too bad.
I havent been playing Eve since the beginning but ive been around and I see the signs.
Cater to the carebear and get new players and new money coming in.
It can be done wihout such drastic changes, but its gone the way of the Inc.
I love Eve for its intensly skill oriented play(not SP) so much but real skill.
I hope this game goes on in its original fashion.
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Culmen
Caldari Vigrior The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:43:00 -
[2]
1) How is the agent change doing anything to harm/hurt anybody? It's going to have zero effect, but a little less book keeping. 2) You do realize their nerfing cyno jammed systems and jump freighters right? 3) Can I have you stuff? and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Kieron VonDeux
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen I hope this game goes on in its original fashion.
It is; It changes frequently, often in unexpected ways.
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Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:48:00 -
[4]
in eve we need drakes and guristas mounts - anything else must be streamlined into one line... which focuses itself into a dot.
all people on drakes, this is very fun. nerf BS, HACs, SC etc etc
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:52:00 -
[5]
Ehh, first they dumbed down probing. Tough I don't think many people regretted that!
Then they killed of all racial differences, which I still think sux.
Then the learning skills, pointless time wasters, indeed goodbye not gone miss ya.
Now they kill of agent quality and division, because they were Quote: adding complexity to an already complex game.
Lol what a load of crap of bs! Next they'll probably remove falloff and tracking speed, because THAT IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED. What the fekk is CCP thinking? I'm a 6 year old ADHD kid not a science student!
You know what they want, money, and fast. Soon (no Ö) wow in space will become rality. Mhuwhahahaha!
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/05/2011 07:16:16 I heard EVE died again, shame.
Hey remember that time it died when they:
Removed NPC Sell/Buy Orders Introduced T2 T20 Incident Removed Yulai as a Trade Hub Halved the number of Drones launchable Released Bandwidth Added Gate Guns to Low Sec Sleeper AI Added Gate NPC's Moved ABC to Null Released Faction Warfare Released Capitals Buffed HP Fix'd Lvl 5 locations Made Concord untankable Added Strip Miners Added Incursions Penalties Made Deadspace Scanable Released Tyrannis Changed Probing Mechanics Drake Gangs Buffed Projectiles Deleted boot.ini AFK Cloaking Nerfed Nano
Also this mission thing.
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Shira Elan
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
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Gothikia
Regeneration
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
"DO NOT REBOOT!"
Total classic right there, still have a screenshot of that somewhere... __ Gothie <3 |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 17/05/2011 08:04:22
WTF are on rambling about. I bet you see the signs, but can you present your views with coherent facts backing them up. Emotional reactions are always to be expected with changes, but what is the actual doom these changes are causing?
1. Learning skills were a giant sack of **** and should have never been implemented. The idea isn't horrible, but in practice they didn't improve the gameplay and in many cases drastically made it worse in the early stages of the game.
2. 0.0 players are being overly dramatic, since CCP earlier gave them a lollipop and now took it away. They have a right to be ****ed, especially with the anomaly changes, but rebalancing happens from time to time, and we have all been on the wrong side of the nerf hammer at one time or another. It always causes lots of emotions to come up to the surphase and predictions of doom are abundant, but really the doomsayers have nothing concrete to support them. The changes made aren't always the best, but at worst they create imbalances that last a year or two before the next round of nerfs.
3. How is any of the anomaly changes or mission tweaks catering to carebears? 0.0 changes are made to change 0.0 from the stale(this is relative) place it has become recently to something more interesting, although we haven't been told what the vision is yet. Missioning changes were long overdue to the simple fact that the old system was bad. It was another god awful piece of **** system that people just had gotten used to. It forced people to use out of game resourced to understand, it offered less good choices for agent selection, it used a lottery system to give out mission types and in practice it was mostly used just like the new system is structured.
People only wanted to work for the top agents, wanted to work for agents offering their preferred mission types, skipping the ones they didn't want and the progress was linear to the few best quality agents the corp offered. In practice most people already used the system like the new one. The main difference is that now you don't need to go out of game to understand how the system works, you get to clearly choose the types of missions you want to fly and you have much more options in the way of agents that are good, which will help spread the playerbase around a bit. Not much, since there will still be places where missioning offers the best rewards and most agents, but now you have more good choices to choose from.
The only downside I see is the lack of choices in mission types one agent offers. I would have preferred a system where you could have chosen the type of mission you fly without having to use another agent. It would have catered more to player preferences and retained some overlap in mission types, so that you could access more content from a single agent, while at the same time retaining meaningful differences between the divisions by manipulation of the actual mission pools.
Regardless of that one negative point the new system is an improvement over the old one in almost all aspects. The old system was more complex, but it was mostly meaningless compexity that only worked to make the actual gameplay experience worse than it needed to be to achieve the exact same goals and gameplay.
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rastavelli
Minmatar Mortis Angelus Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/05/2011 07:16:16 I heard EVE died again, shame.
Hey remember that time it died when they:
Removed NPC Sell/Buy Orders Introduced T2 T20 Incident Removed Yulai as a Trade Hub Halved the number of Drones launchable Released Bandwidth Added Gate Guns to Low Sec Sleeper AI Added Gate NPC's Moved ABC to Null Released Faction Warfare Released Capitals Buffed HP Fix'd Lvl 5 locations Made Concord untankable Added Strip Miners Added Incursions Penalties Made Deadspace Scanable Released Tyrannis Changed Probing Mechanics Drake Gangs Buffed Projectiles Deleted boot.ini AFK Cloaking Nerfed Nano
Also this mission thing.
yes eve has been close to death for 8 years now. we all live on the ledge by playing this game.
why else would we play this game but to witness the closing of the game so we can all say we were here for that.
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Kharamete
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.17 08:01:00 -
[11]
Eve has been dying for 8 years, and will continue to die for years to come. Some things are just constants. Like the Planck constant, or the perpetual Eve-dying.
So, move along now. Move along. Nothing to see here. All is as it should be. Dying. ---
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salty Milk
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Posted - 2011.05.17 08:35:00 -
[12]
anybody in iceland want to pull CCP's company records to see if eve is dying because i heard they were |
Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.05.17 08:55:00 -
[13]
This agent simplification is a good thing, not saying that the solution they chose is the best one or the one I would have picked but with variables as system sec, agent quality, LP store and division it's nigh impossible for newer players to figure out which one to do. (tip: the vast majority of players chose wrong, that's why their income sucks).
It's needlessly complicated, impossible to explain to newbies and completely unnecessary. This is a simplification I can relate to (one of the few).
-- You can't cure stupid. |
Hakkar'al Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 17/05/2011 09:13:46
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
lol
As to the agent changes, I can live with simplifying the number agents/structure. But removing Sanctums from a lot of 0.0 systems while letting HS L4 agents be easier accessible while boosting payouts? wtf
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen First, Learning skills, I was happy to see them go, good ridance
so you really want to see WoW here. I'm sorry.
For me removing of a learning skills was the first sign of new path of Eve: "easyer, stupidier and oriented to 2 days noobs want pew-pew"
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Badger Molester
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:13:00 -
[16]
If you don't like it, then the choice is simple. Don't pay, and quit the game.
Paying for and playing a game that you don't like is the result of one thing, your own stupidity.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:25:00 -
[17]
Just for the record:
Checking Chribba EVE agents I see more than 100 level 4 0.0 agents, most of them aren't Q 20.
So at least of NPC 0.0 it is a "buff" as much at it is a buff for all other missioning.
In reality it is not much of a buff as the mission isk payout from my tests on SISI is lower while the LP payout is higher, but LP value is variable and as soon as the availability increase the actual value of the LP decrease.
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Alaizabel Bronstein
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:30:00 -
[18]
Blizzard tries to get its playerbase to HTFU by pulling away from the WotLK "all content should be accessible for even the most casual player" silliness.
Meanwhile CCP continues to dumb down EVE (skill queue, removal of learning skills, agent changes).
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/05/2011 07:16:16 I heard EVE died again, shame.
Hey remember that time it died when they:
Removed NPC Sell/Buy Orders Introduced T2 T20 Incident Removed Yulai as a Trade Hub Halved the number of Drones launchable Released Bandwidth Added Gate Guns to Low Sec Sleeper AI Added Gate NPC's Moved ABC to Null Released Faction Warfare Released Capitals Buffed HP Fix'd Lvl 5 locations Made Concord untankable Added Strip Miners Added Incursions Penalties Made Deadspace Scanable Released Tyrannis Changed Probing Mechanics Drake Gangs Buffed Projectiles Deleted boot.ini AFK Cloaking Nerfed Nano
Also this mission thing.
I quit every time they did this and never resubbed!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Damien McCandless
Caldari Baden's Army
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt you WoW noobs want pew-pew"
I said it before and Ill say it again
NICE HAIR
or is it a bobblehat with no bobble? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Joe Phoenix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *sigh* |
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CCP Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:57:00 -
[21]
I agree with the OP, Jitatolemy, that it was good to see learning skills go. They were intended to be an investment that would pay off for the patient, but became a grind that everyone did anyway. Not a fun or intuitive way to start a character.
Same with agent quality and divisions really. That system was intended to be something it didn't turn out to be. It was supposed to add depth to the game play, but only added arbitrary complexity. Complexity is cool if it adds depth, provides a meaningful challenge, and takes some smarts to overcome but if it doesn't hit those marks it's usually just a pain in the B-hind.
As a stark contrast I would point to the combat system in EVE which has nearly infinite depth and provides a long and challenging learning curve.
I would argue that removing arbitrary complexity always makes the game better. And not just for so called carebears.
And it's not always about nerfing. It's about changing and balancing. But obviously some things become worse for some purposes when they are changed. In return, other things usually improve accordingly.
Then it's the 0.0 changes. They are bound to be controversial because they directly impact established interest. But a lot of people are also happy with the effects they will have on the game play, although I won't dive deep into that discussion. :)
But since the original post ends with a wish for EVE to return to it's roots...I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2011 09:59:41
Originally by: CCP Guard But since the original post ends with a wish for EVE to return to it's roots...I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning
Or jump-capable vessels. Or warp to zero. Or CONCORD. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Illwill Bill
Talu Shaya Talu Shaya Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2011 09:59:41
Originally by: CCP Guard But since the original post ends with a wish for EVE to return to it's roots...I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning
Or jump-capable vessels. Or warp to zero. Or CONCORD.
This.
Please remove CONCORD, WTZ and bookmarks in the next release.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
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Florestan Bronstein
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:04:00 -
[24]
The problem is that the interests of CCP and some parts of the playerbase are diametrically opposed.
As a player I have a strong interest that CCP keeps enough complexity in the game to weed out certain other types of players that I don't enjoy interacting with - whether that complexity is having to solve a Rubick's cube at account creation, training one month of learning skills with no immediate return or having to spend the first few weeks reading up on game mechanics using OOG resources is something I don't really care about.
CCP on the other hand does want EVE to be attractive to a very broad audience.
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CCP Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: CCP Guard on 17/05/2011 10:16:14
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2011 09:59:41
Originally by: CCP Guard But since the original post ends with a wish for EVE to return to it's roots...I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning
Or jump-capable vessels. Or warp to zero. Or CONCORD.
Indeed :).
And we also had weapons (edit: I meant damage mods. derp.) that stacked perfectly for comedy instaganks (my spell checker is still in the dark ages and wants me to change this fine word btw, can you believe it?).
Point being that we put things in the game with good intentions, some work out, some don't work as well. Since we want to keep evolving the game we also have to have the courage to admit that not all our creations are equal, and remove or change the things that don't work. Note that I still fully expect you guys to kick our butts about it from time to time. Sometimes we even deserve it a little bit.
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Argosus
Waverunners
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
yeah cost me 3 weeks worth of work that i'd not backed up. And my job! But thanks for your hard work making this game "better" ccp, as long as i can play internet spaceships who needs a paying job? lol
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Xanarae
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Argosus
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
yeah cost me 3 weeks worth of work that i'd not backed up. And my job! But thanks for your hard work making this game "better" ccp, as long as i can play internet spaceships who needs a paying job? lol
Some people have to learn it the hard way :)
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salty Milk
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Argosus
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Deleted boot.ini
I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.
yeah cost me 3 weeks worth of work that i'd not backed up. And my job! But thanks for your hard work making this game "better" ccp, as long as i can play internet spaceships who needs a paying job? lol
i think you can work out who is at fault for you losing your job |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:41:00 -
[29]
nothing new here eve constantly changes and then someone makes a thread about how it's dying.
It's not catering to new players it's fluxing.
agent changes are not catering, it used to be stupid complex. there are 4mission types, and CCP was trying to make the PvE in eve seem bigger. it's not big, it's not complex, not the system to get to missions mirrors that.
also wow has always catered to the new players. get off your high horse, wow has been catering to the mass since year 1. It's something new. You just joined in late.
raise level cap and power 10%. 6 months later. decrease time it takes to get to said level and power by 10%. now charge 50$ to anyone who wants the level cap increase.
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Long John Silver
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Guard Stuff...
But since the original post ends with a wish for EVE to return to it's roots...I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning
Agree with the stuff, but not your last comment. IMHO Eve was much better before bubbles and jump bridges were introduced. All they did was build big fence around vast swathes of 0.0, blocked access for the majority of pilots and encouraged the 'my blob is bigger than yours' mindset. I'd love to see what would happen if they were removed, or restricted in some way: I think you'd get a lot more traffic and players in and out of 0.0.
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