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Iurnan Mileghere
Singularity Foundation
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Posted - 2011.05.18 20:32:00 -
[1]
With the agent changes coming tomorrow, might we see the start of changes to the secondary trade hubs? Currently, Dodixie and Rens hold their positions in part due to mission runners. But if they spread out, do you expect to see new tertiary hubs arise (on the scale of Hek), or perhaps even a change from Dodixie to someplace else for the Federation?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.18 20:50:00 -
[2]
Yes, but it will take time. I have made no research in what systems are the "best-at-a-glance" after the changes, but I can say for sure it's not dodixie. And well, where the demand moves the market will follow. However, as dodixie is already established, people will keep coming there to buy stuff, and as people will keep coming there, people will keep selling there.
Take oursolaert as a great example(or yulai for that matter) which used to be some of the largest hubs in eve, but have slowly died out. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 175172
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Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:20:00 -
[3]
What made Oursulaert desirable as a big hub?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist What made Oursulaert desirable as a big hub?
Same thing most hubs, starting system with decent agents. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 717980
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Catho Sharn
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:56:00 -
[5]
The weight of long buy and sell orders will likely keep current hubs in some use, at least for a while.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.18 23:43:00 -
[6]
Rens lost its agents years ago in a major patch - its still a hub. Its not going to change.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.05.19 00:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere With the agent changes coming tomorrow, might we see the start of changes to the secondary trade hubs? Currently, Dodixie and Rens hold their positions in part due to mission runners. But if they spread out, do you expect to see new tertiary hubs arise (on the scale of Hek), or perhaps even a change from Dodixie to someplace else for the Federation?
Its really early to tell. It may be that people keep going where they go simply out of habit. And then nothing much would change.
There are places currently that are huge mission hubs, but not really market hubs, like Motsu. Jita is pretty much guaranteed to stay as well.
I guess it depends on whether other huge desirable mission hubs in places previously empty arise from the changes. And whether the existing mission hubs completely go away or remain out of habit.. or turn into courier or other undesirable agents and die outright. Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone... |
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
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Posted - 2011.05.19 07:21:00 -
[8]
Two questions regarding the agent quality change:
1) I seem to remember (and I apologize for the anecdotal hearsay) that CCP was considering making the quality of an agent's rewards atrophy if the agent is used frequently (across all players). A L4 agent in a 0.5 system that nobody but you missions for would thus give better rewards in the long run than an L4 agent in a 0.5 system that hundreds of people mission for. Do we know if this tweak will be implemented?
2) Will storyline agents now be 100% guaranteed to give storyline missions of their division, as with regular agents, or will they still be a grab bag based on... well, based on what? Not division, apparently...
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Nikki Sanderson
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Posted - 2011.05.19 07:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist Two questions regarding the agent quality change:
1) I seem to remember (and I apologize for the anecdotal hearsay) that CCP was considering making the quality of an agent's rewards atrophy if the agent is used frequently (across all players). A L4 agent in a 0.5 system that nobody but you missions for would thus give better rewards in the long run than an L4 agent in a 0.5 system that hundreds of people mission for. Do we know if this tweak will be implemented?
2) Will storyline agents now be 100% guaranteed to give storyline missions of their division, as with regular agents, or will they still be a grab bag based on... well, based on what? Not division, apparently...
No word on dynamic quality in the dev blog, and in the dev blog thread it was mentioned by CCP that storyline agents remain as is.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.05.19 07:48:00 -
[10]
I think agent rewards are still going to be proportional to sec status, which may mean that there will be a flight towards 0.5 sec systems in hi sec. So wherever the most central and best-connected 0.5 systems are is where new concentrations will initially form?
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.19 08:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ghoest Rens lost its agents years ago in a major patch - its still a hub. Its not going to change.
This, and as many people are unaware of sec-status on payouts, Rens might see a boost as the agents there are upgraded.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:23:00 -
[12]
Does anyone else think we might see some movement from dodixie to oursulaert, I always through Ours was a more desirable location and dodixie just rose by virtue of having a top l4 agent, I'm not convinced we will see one system become a new L4 hub for a long time, especially among the factions with plenty of highsec level 4 agents. |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:05:00 -
[13]
With these changes, and what can be expected to follow, finally some of the meh logic to hubs will go away..
Expect a lot of changes in population distribution.. Taking into consideration all the directions devs are taking EVE atm, I see big changes ahead..
Incursion with "fluid" system control.. might bring more along that logic down the road..
Agent changes.. and who knows supply and demand based payouts might be in the pipeline..
With PI, Incarna and DUST on the horizon I would say a lot of awesome upgrades are ahead..
Problem ofc will be to bring it in without to much conservative whining..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:11:00 -
[14]
I suspect if anything we are going to see Rens and Jita become more important. Im not sure how Dodixie will play out its already the 3rd place hub and purely based on locaction the least vital.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:30:00 -
[15]
Hek and Dodixie have other factors in their favour.
They are relatively near to each other and both on/near the Jita<->Rens highway, both are next to their faction respective COSMOS constellation.
Hek is prime low-sec and and secondary FW jump off area. Hek has several good agents 1/2 jumps away in Eystur and Lustrevik and stands to benefit significantly from the agent changes.
Dodixie is near many Gallente starter systems and has great links to other regions (Essence,Genesis,Everyshore), it has 3 level 4 agents of good quality that will all get a slight buffed by the change and 3 more within 1 Jump. It is the centre of Coriault with 6 gates and good selection of other level agents to draw in the newbies.
On Balance I think Hek and Dodixie get a slight buff from the agent changes.
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Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.19 13:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Dodixie is near many Gallente starter systems and has great links to other regions (Essence,Genesis,Everyshore), it has 3 level 4 agents of good quality that will all get a slight buffed by the change and 3 more within 1 Jump.
These are all 0.9 - 0.8 systems though, so the L4 Q18 agent sitting in 0.9 currently may seem less attractive.
I still think a large number of mission runners won't notice, and will carry on running from the same places (Some may not even realise they need new connections skills) *shrugs*
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist What made Oursulaert desirable as a big hub?
It's not Oursulaert. It's Arnon, Renyn, Oursulaert. And that's the answer, too.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Telvani Does anyone else think we might see some movement from dodixie to oursulaert, I always through Ours was a more desirable location
Different regions. Any region will have at least one "local" trade "hub". Arnon and Gicodel are linked by SoE agents. Gico is close to Dodixie. Dodixie region trade volume is not split up like in Arnon / Renyn / Oursulaert.
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Harisdrop
Gallente Waiting for Palli WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:38:00 -
[19]
It will based on price and skills. More people will be spread out.
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Scorpii Orion
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Scorpii Orion on 19/05/2011 19:45:39
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere With the agent changes coming tomorrow, might we see the start of changes to the secondary trade hubs? Currently, Dodixie and Rens hold their positions in part due to mission runners. But if they spread out, do you expect to see new tertiary hubs arise (on the scale of Hek), or perhaps even a change from Dodixie to someplace else for the Federation?
System security rating now defines the quality. So, in highsec, agents in 0.5 will be most used since they pay out best rewards. Of course if it doesn't send you to lowsec.
Gallente has 11 lvl4 agents in 0.5 rated systems.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.19 20:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 19/05/2011 20:14:44
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist 1) I seem to remember (and I apologize for the anecdotal hearsay) that CCP was considering making the quality of an agent's rewards atrophy if the agent is used frequently (across all players). A L4 agent in a 0.5 system that nobody but you missions for would thus give better rewards in the long run than an L4 agent in a 0.5 system that hundreds of people mission for. Do we know if this tweak will be implemented?
I wish. I've been wanting CCP to do this for a long time, but with this change standardizing quality, I doubt it'll happen.
Originally by: Rhivre I still think a large number of mission runners won't notice, and will carry on running from the same places (Some may not even realise they need new connections skills) *shrugs*
I suspect this is probably true. I think many of the "log on, run missions, log off" people probably don't read patch notes or dev blogs. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.19 23:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I suspect this is probably true. I think many of the "log on, run missions, log off" people probably don't read patch notes or dev blogs.
Auvergne seemed as busy as ever a few minutes ago, and the other missiony places I have been through tonight seemed the same.
Maybe at some point we might see a flood of "WTF, why am I getting less LP" threads.
Or I could just be cynical
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WhiteUranium
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Posted - 2011.05.20 08:43:00 -
[23]
How come no one is talking about Amarr ? What will happen to this hub ?
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.05.20 09:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist
1) I seem to remember (and I apologize for the anecdotal hearsay) that CCP was considering making the quality of an agent's rewards atrophy if the agent is used frequently (across all players). A L4 agent in a 0.5 system that nobody but you missions for would thus give better rewards in the long run than an L4 agent in a 0.5 system that hundreds of people mission for. Do we know if this tweak will be implemented?
See CCP Dropbear:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
The tl;dr of the discussion was that we liked the basic idea, but that it had far-reaching implications for mission running and the EVE economy as a whole, by extension. It also required significant programming resources (something we've traditionally not had much of).
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
TLDR: Dynamic agent quality: not in our lifetimes.
Joint Venture Conglomerate |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.20 10:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jackie Fisher
Originally by: Kethas Protagonist
1) I seem to remember (and I apologize for the anecdotal hearsay) that CCP was considering making the quality of an agent's rewards atrophy if the agent is used frequently (across all players). A L4 agent in a 0.5 system that nobody but you missions for would thus give better rewards in the long run than an L4 agent in a 0.5 system that hundreds of people mission for. Do we know if this tweak will be implemented?
See CCP Dropbear:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dynamic Agent Quality: This may have been discussed further by BFF in some roundtables, etc and I don't know anything about what might have been said there. I do know that in the PvE roundtable (hosted by Commie PInkos) that we talked about it.
The tl;dr of the discussion was that we liked the basic idea, but that it had far-reaching implications for mission running and the EVE economy as a whole, by extension. It also required significant programming resources (something we've traditionally not had much of).
So basically, it was a promising idea, but not something our team was capable of tackling any time soon.
TLDR: Dynamic agent quality: not in our lifetimes.
One little issue with that comment.. You are asuming there is no simple solution to the same effect. Personally I know there is one, and more than that one that would resolve more then just the mentioned topic.
Since payout atm is based on security status of the system, then the simple solution to the dynamic agents would be to have security status be dynamical. This is easier to implement and more likely.
Second stage would be a resolving of the current player to npc corp calculation and player corp to npc corp calculations. The simplest solution would be to let standings of players degenerate faster. This is not gamebreaking or balance breaking now since access is not that hard. Then let player corp to npc corp be calculated on a CEO boost scheme. So all members of a corp increase the CEOs standing by the percentage of the standing. This would be perfectly balanced and beneficial to all current systems of the game, and resolve the issue of POS competition.
one result of this would be a more risk assesment based player behaviour in war decs, and could then begin to warrant a nice overhaul to the war dec system. Personally I think the simplest solution would be to make it a CONCORD tax pricing model, that tax at 25%-50% on both involved corps, and increase npc prices by the same factor.. remove the simple isk sink and create a dynamic based one..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.20 11:07:00 -
[26]
At first a few who read patch notes and frequent the forums will move to a new mission area. Then I reckon over the next 6 months you will see a migration of people to 0.5 systems that aren't close to lowsec (who wants a mission in lowsec?). The 0.5 systems that are close to current mission hubs will be the ones that fill up first as most people wont want to travel far to restart their missioning. Some people just wont move; either they wont realise or just cant be bothered.
I doubt that the major hubs will be affected much. Some of the smaller hubs in the regions might shift slightly but that will probably take a little while. It wont happen overnight it will take time for these places to become established. However, if you are quick then you might be able to make some nice profit over the next little while moving goods to 0.5 systems with level 4 agents in.
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.05.20 11:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
One little issue with that comment.. You are asuming there is no simple solution to the same effect. Personally I know there is one, and more than that one that would resolve more then just the mentioned topic.
Since payout atm is based on security status of the system, then the simple solution to the dynamic agents would be to have security status be dynamical. This is easier to implement and more likely.
Second stage would be a resolving of the current player to npc corp calculation and player corp to npc corp calculations. The simplest solution would be to let standings of players degenerate faster. This is not gamebreaking or balance breaking now since access is not that hard. Then let player corp to npc corp be calculated on a CEO boost scheme. So all members of a corp increase the CEOs standing by the percentage of the standing. This would be perfectly balanced and beneficial to all current systems of the game, and resolve the issue of POS competition.
one result of this would be a more risk assesment based player behaviour in war decs, and could then begin to warrant a nice overhaul to the war dec system. Personally I think the simplest solution would be to make it a CONCORD tax pricing model, that tax at 25%-50% on both involved corps, and increase npc prices by the same factor.. remove the simple isk sink and create a dynamic based one..
Problem: Lack of analysis and coding resources. Solution: Far more complex and in depth changes.
Joint Venture Conglomerate |
Florestan Bronstein
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.20 12:41:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 20/05/2011 12:41:33
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Since payout atm is based on security status of the system, then the simple solution to the dynamic agents would be to have security status be dynamical. This is easier to implement and more likely.
not like system security matters, right? POS setup/operation, mining, ability to travel with negative sec status, ...
that "simple solution" would result in a huge cluster****.
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90120
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Posted - 2011.05.20 17:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ghoest Rens lost its agents years ago in a major patch - its still a hub. Its not going to change.
No it hasn't. There are still several agents in the main Rens station. You often talk out of your ass. |
BLACK D0G
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2011.05.20 18:11:00 -
[30]
ive often wondered what tone an ass talker would use.
well not often, in fact never before i read what you wrote.
BLACK D0G is for SALE! |
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