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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Marrano Cardosa
Originally by: Senn Typhos Edited by: Senn Typhos on 21/05/2011 09:02:44 Producing narcotics for non-capsuleers, making allies solely for protection or gain, occupying territory based on potential profits, spinning event details to bolster your public image, committing treason against your nation of birth, following a "shoot-what-we-want" code of conduct, aligning yourselves with anarchist mongrels...
It's getting harder to distinguish you from the pirates. Not that anyone is surprised the Liberal bloc of the State is comprised of dishonorable curs.
Wow, the pirate mouth piece sure does bang the table a lot!
We don't and never DID produce boosters for anyone other than capsuleers. We make allies for LOTS of reasons, we rarely have long term allies for any single reason. We are a Caldari Corp and alliance, of course we do things for proffit. You aren't one to talk about spinning details for image purposes. Its NOT treason against the State to take actions that hurt another Caldari corp or even megacorp. IF ONLY we could just shoot what we want ... And we are not aligned with any anarchist "mongrels" or any anarchists for that matter.
So you're telling me you sold 7bil worth of synths, which go for about 1mISK apiece, solely to capsuleers, defying statistical possibility.
You're telling me you didn't flee to Gallentean space after losing more than a billion in ships to your enemies in the StaPro.
You're telling me you're a Caldari corporation, despite your obvious lack of concern for the State and your patriotic duties as such.
Outlaw and stand-alone organizations accept that despite having higher standards of loyalty, business practice, recruitment and operational diligence than most legals - yourselves included - they will always be regarded as "pirates." That's a word your corporation uses at every opportunity to justify its actions.
Aiding the Gallentean militia is the definition of treason, something anyone can confirm of your corporation by checking your public combat data. Your corporation is aligned with an anarchist group as of just days ago, announced on this channel no less.
Either your leadership shares no relevant information with you pertaining to corporate decisions, or you don't bother to open your inbox occasionally.
As for the "if only" statement, be glad you're not allowed to engage freely. Ishukone can only afford you so many ships to lose.
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Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.21 21:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Senn Typhos
Originally by: Marrano Cardosa
Originally by: Senn Typhos Edited by: Senn Typhos on 21/05/2011 09:02:44 Producing narcotics for non-capsuleers, making allies solely for protection or gain, occupying territory based on potential profits, spinning event details to bolster your public image, committing treason against your nation of birth, following a "shoot-what-we-want" code of conduct, aligning yourselves with anarchist mongrels...
It's getting harder to distinguish you from the pirates. Not that anyone is surprised the Liberal bloc of the State is comprised of dishonorable curs.
Wow, the pirate mouth piece sure does bang the table a lot!
We don't and never DID produce boosters for anyone other than capsuleers. We make allies for LOTS of reasons, we rarely have long term allies for any single reason. We are a Caldari Corp and alliance, of course we do things for proffit. You aren't one to talk about spinning details for image purposes. Its NOT treason against the State to take actions that hurt another Caldari corp or even megacorp. IF ONLY we could just shoot what we want ... And we are not aligned with any anarchist "mongrels" or any anarchists for that matter.
So you're telling me you sold 7bil worth of synths, which go for about 1mISK apiece, solely to capsuleers, defying statistical possibility.
You're telling me you didn't flee to Gallentean space after losing more than a billion in ships to your enemies in the StaPro.
You're telling me you're a Caldari corporation, despite your obvious lack of concern for the State and your patriotic duties as such.
Outlaw and stand-alone organizations accept that despite having higher standards of loyalty, business practice, recruitment and operational diligence than most legals - yourselves included - they will always be regarded as "pirates." That's a word your corporation uses at every opportunity to justify its actions.
Aiding the Gallentean militia is the definition of treason, something anyone can confirm of your corporation by checking your public combat data. Your corporation is aligned with an anarchist group as of just days ago, announced on this channel no less.
Either your leadership shares no relevant information with you pertaining to corporate decisions, or you don't bother to open your inbox occasionally.
As for the "if only" statement, be glad you're not allowed to engage freely. Ishukone can only afford you so many ships to lose.
Since the synths were sold on a market accessible ONLY to capsuleers ... Flee? We based out of a system that was advantageous to us. Do you understand Liberal Bloc policies? Whatever. Serpentis are pirates by CONCORD designation. We didn't aid Gallente Militia, they aided us when our interests aligned. Ishukone doesn't pay for my ships, I do, as does our whole alliance.
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Valdezi
Amarr Intaki Security and Intelligence Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.21 22:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Silas Vitalia Valdezi,
Do you feel your current associations and friends bring honor to your family?
Madam Vitalia,
As, with the exception of my sister, my family is dead, I am left to only imagine what they would think of my association with the Intaki movement and Ishukone-Raata.
I am a proud Khanid and while I may sometimes disagree with actions taken by my people I stay true to my heritage, a warrior heritage with hearkens back to green Athra.
This considered, I feel that Ishukone-Raata is one of the last true honourable organisations left in this part of space, as the shifting currents of Militia privateers should demonstrate. While many of the militia groups seem to be striking their banners and flying off, Ishukone-Raata stays true to its message and its mission.
So, yes, I do feel that my current associations bring honour to my family and to the Khanid people.
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Xenos Giger
Caldari Uppers n Downers
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Posted - 2011.05.21 23:41:00 -
[34]
hmmmmmm....wonders if anyone has noticed hes no longer part of I-red but still in the same buisness...my hands are no longer tied.........let me guess you no longer want a media interview giving the inside scoop on one of the bigest jita legal drug dealers senn?
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Xenos Giger
Caldari Uppers n Downers
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Posted - 2011.05.21 23:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Marrano Cardosa
So you're telling me you sold 7bil worth of synths, which go for about 1mISK apiece, solely to capsuleers, defying statistical possibility.
oh you have no idea...multiply that 7 by 3 & your closer
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Stalking Mantis
Caldari Wolfsbrigade ShadowWolves.net
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Posted - 2011.05.21 23:54:00 -
[36]
Did he just claim that WBR leaving FW to form an Alliance is somehow someway a victory for I-RED?
Dont worry I-RED will be CODOS (Cloak Or Dock On Sight) with WBR soon ----------
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John Revenent
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.22 00:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Stalking Mantis Did he just claim that WBR leaving FW to form an Alliance is somehow someway a victory for I-RED?
Dont worry I-RED will be CODOS (Cloak Or Dock On Sight) with WBR soon
You people really don't read.
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.22 02:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Marrano Cardosa
Since the synths were sold on a market accessible ONLY to capsuleers ... Flee? We based out of a system that was advantageous to us. Do you understand Liberal Bloc policies? Whatever. Serpentis are pirates by CONCORD designation. We didn't aid Gallente Militia, they aided us when our interests aligned. Ishukone doesn't pay for my ships, I do, as does our whole alliance.
You're making the assumption your corporation actually sold 7bil worth of boosters, which they've never bothered to verify with hard data, and which no one in their right mind would believe.
I'm not sure where you got your military training, but moving to a different location after suffering too many losses to maintain your position, is called a "retreat." For that matter, having "aligned interests" with Gallentean militia groups and shooting down StaPro pilots, is the second verbatim definition of treason you've blurted out now.
You're starting to look pretty bad, pilot. I'd suggest you back out and start loading up, because I doubt I-RED's surrender is going to stave off your enemies in the State.
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.22 04:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Valdezi
As, with the exception of my sister, my family is dead, I am left to only imagine what they would think of my association with the Intaki movement and Ishukone-Raata.
I am a proud Khanid and while I may sometimes disagree with actions taken by my people I stay true to my heritage, a warrior heritage with hearkens back to green Athra.
This considered, I feel that Ishukone-Raata is one of the last true honourable organisations left in this part of space, as the shifting currents of Militia privateers should demonstrate. While many of the militia groups seem to be striking their banners and flying off, Ishukone-Raata stays true to its message and its mission.
So, yes, I do feel that my current associations bring honour to my family and to the Khanid people.
Mister Valdezi,
To remain true to your heritage, especially as a warrior, would mean obedience to the will of the King. Your King has declared the Gallente an enemy, in support of the EmpireÆs current state of war with the Federation.
Your residence on Intaki and your employment with ISI indicate that you do not see them as the enemy.
While I privately support the idea of Intaki independence from the Federation, I donÆt see how your current employment is in any way in-line with being a true warrior for your King.
This may seem a bit harsh, but a warrior does what he is commanded to do. To do otherwise brings dishonor on oneÆs self and oneÆs House. If you support the corrupt Federal government, then you disobey your King. Unlessàdo you see yourself as fighting against the Federation by supporting Intaki independence?
Either way, I urge you to reconsider your current path and return home to serve your King and our people in a fashion that would bring honor to you and the memory of your House.
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.05.22 12:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Your King has declared the Gallente an enemy, in support of the EmpireÆs current state of war with the Federation.
He has ? |
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.22 13:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Your King has declared the Gallente an enemy, in support of the EmpireÆs current state of war with the Federation.
He has ?
Unless I missed the memo where the Empire is no longer at war with the Federation, then yes. I know it must be difficult to stay abreast of current events what with all those parties, but there is a war on and Khanid is a part of that war.
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.22 13:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Senn Typhos Your corporation is aligned with an anarchist group as of just days ago, announced on this channel no less. Either your leadership shares no relevant information with you pertaining to corporate decisions, or you don't bother to open your inbox occasionally.
Resolving a mutual -10 hostile standing to neutrality is not the same as "aligning with" unless you come from the school of thought that everyone in the universe is your enemy unless you have taken measures to put a "not my enemy" sticker on their forehead (ie NBSI engagement ideology).
I understand this can be challenging for one unused to opening the mind beyond simple galnet sniping but really, it isnt THAT difficult to understand.
Neutrality is not an alien concept.
Join the Revolution!
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Diana Kim
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.05.22 16:07:00 -
[43]
During the whole I-RED campaign, Wolfsbrigade maintained space superiority over I-RED, from the first fleet battle to the withdrawal from Black Rise. Compared to other enemies of the State, the threat level from I-RED was insignificant. They even didn't come to defend their control tower, when it was destroyed by Caldari forces. Thus I-RED activity had completely no influence on decision of Wolfsbrigade to leave the region.
As for I-REDs 'plans': 1. Wolfsbrigade left together with the strongest Gallente militia corporation, maintaining the balance, so Gallente forces with their I-RED minions won't get a benefit from this. 2. There are still other loyal Caldari corporations, that will keep Black Rise space clean of traitorous I-RED vessels. --- We live and die for the State |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.05.22 17:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Your King has declared the Gallente an enemy, in support of the EmpireÆs current state of war with the Federation.
He has ?
Unless I missed the memo where the Empire is no longer at war with the Federation, then yes. I know it must be difficult to stay abreast of current events what with all those parties, but there is a war on and Khanid is a part of that war.
Unless I missed some official declaration from king Khanid - thus why I asked the question - the Khanid Kingdom is not at war with the Republic.
Maybe king Khanid issued a declaration where he states that the Federation is an enemy ? I was only asking out of curiosity. |
Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.22 18:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Senn Typhos Your corporation is aligned with an anarchist group as of just days ago, announced on this channel no less. Either your leadership shares no relevant information with you pertaining to corporate decisions, or you don't bother to open your inbox occasionally.
Resolving a mutual -10 hostile standing to neutrality is not the same as "aligning with" unless you come from the school of thought that everyone in the universe is your enemy unless you have taken measures to put a "not my enemy" sticker on their forehead (ie NBSI engagement ideology).
I understand this can be challenging for one unused to opening the mind beyond simple galnet sniping but really, it isnt THAT difficult to understand.
Neutrality is not an alien concept.
If we weren't dealing with your particular organization, that might be the case.
Let me give you an example; if IRED had simply declared some form of "neutrality" with MXD, instead of fully incorporating that group into their ranks, I imagine certain Amarrian elements would still have reacted negatively. If DED called neutrality with -10 sec pilots and no longer opened fire if they entered a hi-sec system, eyebrows would be raised.
I'm unsurprised you feel yourself above the standards of basic inter-corporation practices. I'd mention the sort of person that takes, but I'd rather not waste the fluid router explaining something you should already know.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.22 18:33:00 -
[46]
For your information, I-RED and Mixed Metaphor have been firm friends for over a year now, and have made no secret of this fact, and joining I-RED was a temporary measure rooted firmly in practicality and changed absolutely nothing about our relationship. The Imperials throwing a hissy fit was, of course, expected, but it's merely an illustration of how mired they are in symbolism and representation rather than practical reality.
A lot of people concentrate way too much on "the message" that things send, rather than remembering that messages are written after the fact. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.22 19:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Senn Typhos I'm unsurprised you feel yourself above the standards of basic inter-corporation practices. I'd mention the sort of person that takes, but I'd rather not waste the fluid router explaining something you should already know.
At this point I don't have the slightest idea what you are even talking about. It seems your intrinsic knee-jerk venom has poisoned your central immune system and rendered you incapable of communicating in anything other than a sequence of gutteral wet-coughing noises inpenetrable to the comprehension of anything possessing a backbone.
Join the Revolution!
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.22 19:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Senn Typhos I'm unsurprised you feel yourself above the standards of basic inter-corporation practices. I'd mention the sort of person that takes, but I'd rather not waste the fluid router explaining something you should already know.
At this point I don't have the slightest idea what you are even talking about. It seems your intrinsic knee-jerk venom has poisoned your central immune system and rendered you incapable of communicating in anything other than a sequence of gutteral wet-coughing noises inpenetrable to the comprehension of anything possessing a backbone.
As I said, I don't expect much of you. I'll speak slowly and simply this time.
You strike me as the egocentric waste of functioning organs who would use words like "revolutionary," "free captain," "freedom fighter" and all other manner of empty, worthless speech to justify the mental acrobatics you perform to convince yourself that while any other instance of NRDS corporations declaring neutral standings would be a sign of fealty, you're somehow exempt from that rule.
I would also wager that despite this sentiment being shared across the cluster, you'll continue to shake your head at criticism of your poor decisions and fervently assure yourself of your importance.
Now why don't you and I break off this digression.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Senn Typhos ... to convince yourself that while any other instance of NRDS corporations declaring neutral standings would be a sign of fealty, you're somehow exempt from that rule.
Again I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. How on earth can declaring neutrality be a sign of "fealty"? Neutrality is Neutrality it is not a subordinate relationship where one side owes submission and obedience to the other.
I'm wondering at this point if you actually understand the meaning of the words you are using.
Join the Revolution!
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Mystical Might
Amarr The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:22:00 -
[50]
So. I-RED Operation "Successful", If you can call it that. Presenting ones self as cannon-fodder until the opposing side gets bored doesn't quite seem the best way to do it.
Anyhow...
Slightly off-topic of the Original transmission of your claimed success;
Do you plan to come down to Amarr Militia controlled space, maybe to remove pirate scum from down here too? We have a "growing infestation" of it...
(And unban me already from your public channel. I r need 2 troll u some moar. :D)
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John Revenent
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jade Constantine How on earth can declaring neutrality be a sign of "fealty"? Neutrality is Neutrality it is not a subordinate relationship where one side owes submission and obedience to the other.
People see what they want to see even if its not the truth.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Mystical Might (And unban me already from your public channel. I r need 2 troll u some moar. :D)
... ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Diana Kim
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.05.23 01:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mystical Might So. I-RED Operation "Successful", If you can call it that. Presenting ones self as cannon-fodder until the opposing side gets bored doesn't quite seem the best way to do it.
The problem is, they didn't present themselves much, claiming achieving something with it. 69 kills and 149 losses for two months? One active pilot does better.
Originally by: Mystical Might
Do you plan to come down to Amarr Militia controlled space, maybe to remove pirate scum from down here too? We have a "growing infestation" of it...
They don't need pirate infestation, they'll just attack someone from militia, and when militia will assemble fleet to counterreact, they will call them pirates. Of course, if their gallente overlords will let them go there *chuckles* --- We live and die for the State |
Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.23 04:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Unless I missed some official declaration from king Khanid - thus why I asked the question - the Khanid Kingdom is not at war with the Republic.
Maybe king Khanid issued a declaration where he states that the Federation is an enemy ? I was only asking out of curiosity.
I find your sociopolitical ignorance disturbing.
The Kingdom of Khanid is a part of the Amarr Empire. The Empire is at war with the Federation and the Republic. As a part of the Empire, we too are at war with the Federation and the Republic. Does this chain of logic explain the situation to your satisfaction or shall I ask His Royal Majesty to write you a note?
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Resolving a mutual -10 hostile standing to neutrality is not the same as "aligning with" unless you come from the school of thought that everyone in the universe is your enemy unless you have taken measures to put a "not my enemy" sticker on their forehead (ie NBSI engagement ideology).
I understand this can be challenging for one unused to opening the mind beyond simple galnet sniping but really, it isnt THAT difficult to understand.
Neutrality is not an alien concept.
In a related misconception...
I-RED used to be a corporation that upheld Law. That is one fo the reasons why they previously held SF at a negative standing. To those of us who still support the laws of our respective governments, an organization like SF must be fought. By setting you as neutral, they are allowing you to continue your crimes through their own inaction. They don't have to align with you. By setting a neutral stance, they make a clear statement that they no longer see your activities as criminal. Passive support is still support.
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Valdezi
Amarr Intaki Security and Intelligence Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.23 04:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Mister Valdezi,
To remain true to your heritage, especially as a warrior, would mean obedience to the will of the King. Your King has declared the Gallente an enemy, in support of the EmpireÆs current state of war with the Federation.
Your residence on Intaki and your employment with ISI indicate that you do not see them as the enemy.
While I privately support the idea of Intaki independence from the Federation, I donÆt see how your current employment is in any way in-line with being a true warrior for your King.
This may seem a bit harsh, but a warrior does what he is commanded to do. To do otherwise brings dishonor on oneÆs self and oneÆs House. If you support the corrupt Federal government, then you disobey your King. Unlessàdo you see yourself as fighting against the Federation by supporting Intaki independence?
Either way, I urge you to reconsider your current path and return home to serve your King and our people in a fashion that would bring honor to you and the memory of your House.
Brother,
We have a very different idea of what constitutes remaining true to one's heritage. I respect you and yours enough to say no more on the matter.
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John Revenent
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.23 06:04:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
In a related misconception...
I-RED used to be a corporation that upheld Law. That is one fo the reasons why they previously held SF at a negative standing. To those of us who still support the laws of our respective governments, an organization like SF must be fought. By setting you as neutral, they are allowing you to continue your crimes through their own inaction. They don't have to align with you. By setting a neutral stance, they make a clear statement that they no longer see your activities as criminal. Passive support is still support.
So we support slavery by not shooting Amarr, and having them neutral.. I am in awe of your logic.
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: John Revenent
So we support slavery by not shooting Amarr, and having them neutral.. I am in awe of your logic.
Apples and Oranges John. Slavery in Amarr is a legalized institution. Anarchist-inspired acts of terrorism against a standing government isnÆt.
Unless youÆre somehow suggesting that slavery is wrong as a result of ethical or moral reasoning? I donÆt see how you could, considering your long support the Empire. WasnÆt it just a few short months ago that you signed a treaty with the Vanguard Alliance? It was right here, on the very station that IÆm currently residing on, wasnÆt it? From what I recall, you had no problem with institutionalized legal slavery then and your support of us and the Empire was done of your own free will with no coercion. YouÆve especially enjoyed reaping the considerable financial benefits of working with many corporations within the Kingdom and the Empire.
But since Jade made the point of comparison between ôNRDSö and ôNBSIö letÆs look at it from that standpoint. If a system is NRDS, isnÆt it the responsibility of the sovereign group to keep the peace and prevent it from becoming NBSI? If say, I-RED and SF hold a system and say VETO or the Cartel sweeps in and starts pirating your allies and other free-traders, you would take up arms against them, no? Because if you didnÆt, youÆd be allowing their actions to happen and the system could hardly be said to be ôNRDS.ö ItÆs the same thing. SF stands against every form of government. TheyÆve made it no secret that they are willing to take up arms against people who are loyal to their respective governments. By declaring them to be neutral, you allow them by default to continue to prey on those who are loyal to the State, the Federation, the Empire and the Republic.
So come down off the fence. I donÆt care which side you fall off on, but either you support government (be it State or Federation) or you support piracy and terrorism. As they say, you canÆt claim the moral high ground when youÆre standing in the mud.
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Tetsu Nakahama
Girochin Sha
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk As they say, you canÆt claim the moral high ground when youÆre standing in the mud.
Or even if you stand in the fog.
Would you care to tell us the standings of the Vanguard Imperium regarding Star Fraction?
I have tried to discover this information but oddly with no luck so far.
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Tetsu Nakahama
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk As they say, you canÆt claim the moral high ground when youÆre standing in the mud.
Or even if you stand in the fog.
Would you care to tell us the standings of the Vanguard Imperium regarding Star Fraction?
I have tried to discover this information but oddly with no luck so far.
That's an excellent question, if a tad irrelevant.
While we're securing our holdings within Querious, we operate under a strict NBSI policy. So unless we were allies with SF, it really wouldn't matter if they were neutral or "red" because they would come under attack in either case.
Perhaps you haven't been asking the right people?
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Tetsu Nakahama
Girochin Sha
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Posted - 2011.05.23 12:04:00 -
[60]
As an aid to understanding the issue of standings indicating 'support' or 'opposition', I consider it highly relevant and I was under the impression you were one of the right people to ask regarding Vanguard Imperium standings.
I notice you have not actually answered the question.
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