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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ogedei Khaghan
Royal Raiders
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents.
I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online.
Tranquility - EVE-EVE-TRANQUILITY - 7.43.412710
- Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this.
- There is no UP or Down in space. There is a galactic or solar north that could be considered UP/DOWN from a graphics stand point, but this has no bearing on space flight except in the sense of magnetic fields. See this. The physics of aeronautical flight do not apply in a vacuum.
- Thus there is no need for a ship to roll in order to change direction. That being said - assuming these ships have gravity plating only on the decks and not on the wall, it may be necessary to roll in order to redirect the Gs of the centripetal force downward. However, this is very poorly implemented; i.e. the center of mass point for the Myrmidon - a very tall ship comparatively; is somewhere in the middle of the ship. Using the theory above - this would throw all the crewmen in the upper levels into the ceiling.
- There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement.
- There is no (relative term) friction in space - see this. Case in point the density of matter is next to nothing due to it being a vacuum. Thus the only environmental force that would interact on the ship's velocity would be micro gravity from larger bodies.
- A space ship would not stop by ceasing forward acceleration (read: Turning off its engines). It would continue on its current vector until it reversed the direction of its engines and accelerated on a reciprocal vector. Read this.
- A space ship would not change directions and then change orientation as is the current case. If anyone has ever piloted a very heavy ship, like a freighter, you may have noticed that the ship points in the direction you want to warp in and then matches the vector after a period of time. While this is a lot closer to true physics it is not realistic. This goes back to the point above as to the reduction of velocity on one vector must be reduced while acceleration is applied to the new vector. For example: in order to make a 90 degree turn on the same plain the ship must yaw (90+45=) 135 degrees in the direction of intended travel before applying acceleration in order to scrub off the velocity on the previous vector. Doing this describes an arc connecting the previous vector with the new one.
This could be coded by placing a fulcrum point ahead of the ship and having the back "fish-tail" or lag directionally when following this point.
As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2074
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Space is a liquid. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2654
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
As long as it's possible to bump people, I don't much care what the physics are. However you do make an interesting point about there not being a maximum speed in space...
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½Now one of the most popular blogs in EVE. Find out why! |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2081
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eve is real! "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Braxus Deninard
State Protectorate Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lost my **** laughing when I saw:
"especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics"
EvE is not based on the real laws of physics that we currently understand, and I doubt you would be able to find a single law in our current system that actually applies in EvE.
But congratulations on making the same thread that gets made every single week, and congratulations on having an extremely basic knowledge of physics. If you're going to make points, you should at least make them properly. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1131
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents.
I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online.
I found the error in your premise.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Adeleda Adoudel
Restless Obsession
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ah ma gahd ships fly through planets. Realism factor is too low. Might as well shut the whole game down and start from scratch. |
Medarr
ZeroSec Dragon Swarm Dynasty
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Your wrong on 3 accounts.
|
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1048
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Had to dust this one off. |
Jim Era
HARD KNOCKS CORP
2013
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
wait I thought we played games to be different from real life, otherwise we could just go out and do it.
God how wrong I have been.
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Robert De'Arneth
Gallium Industries Strategic Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
I had this same problem when I played WoW, since there are no Night Elves running around our planet , I stopped playing because I want my escapes from reality to be real. |
Zakuak
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
U dunno about all that, I thought you just had to hit the lil buttons and things happen. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1514
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
TIL Eve is not realistic.
Next they'll tell me that FTL communications or transport doesn't exist. Rifterlings - Small gang low/nullsec combat corp specializing in fast paced combat in frigates and cruisers. US and EU Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free frigates and fittings for members! |
Historical Research Advocate
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
i didn't read your post. i didn't have to. you used the word "realistic" as part of a discussion about a fictional sci fi universe that exists 1000's of years in the future, has jump drives and immortality, and the concept of copying your brain waves into another body. they should make this game an exact replica of real life so that i can pretend to go to work instead of actually going. |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
722
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well spotted. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:TIL Eve is not realistic.
Next they'll tell me that FTL communications or transport doesn't exist.
Umm ... you know er Father Christmas ummmm how do break this .....
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
baltec1
Bat Country
2077
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rats wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:TIL Eve is not realistic.
Next they'll tell me that FTL communications or transport doesn't exist. Umm ... you know er Father Christmas ummmm how do break this .....
Allow me to help you with this. |
Tekniq
Bionic Systems
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1287
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
I take it the OP is an expert on the fictional subspace physics (which some suggest may be closer to reality than not).
EVE engines do not work on direct thrust. They function via a fictional drive system that interacts with a fictional dimension of space, of which one property is drag.
As for up or down, once you find a vector that has a direction without a magnitude, then we can talk. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
236
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
You spent this much time analyzing a game, and these are the only things you found wrong with it?
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9387
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
I suppose the OP also wants EVE graphics to be nothing but a single point of light with the intensity of all light in the universeGǪ
GǪseems rather boring to me. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Wu Jiaqiu
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
The existance of Warp drives on the ship bend space around it. Essentially making space liquid |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you consider only the server's information and ignore all graphical effects, eve's space combat is actually fairly realistic in the way it plays out. Ships take a while to accelerate and may fire in any direction. Massive accelerations can't be achieved but they aren't really needed- if another ship is faster than you they'll catch up anyway and warp travel is used for any distances where long periods of acceleration would be relevant. If you know how real space works you can easily assume that "banking turns" and engine trails are just there to convey a clearer picture of what is going on to the captain, in the same way that lasers and railguns draw beams in the sky. After that the only really hard thing to swallow is dumb ship designs like the slasher which would have you spinning in forward flips whenever you light the main drive |
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think you understand what's going on here.
Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha
My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles.
|
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
You're correct that this has been discussed before.
I think the prevalent opinion was basically, It would be too computationally intense to calculate a full realistic physics suite, whilst being an MMO.
I would love a 6DOF camera though, totally with you there! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1287
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 20:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Methesda wrote:I don't think you understand what's going on here. Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles. She was referring to the way the server uses vectors to handle the physical movement calculations.
Which is also the reason ships centering and leveling is impossible to avoid. |
Karn Dulake
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
839
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 21:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Liquid space is what EVE is all about
Also to the OP. About one every week or so somebody posts a thread like this with this level of depth of thinking and time wasting I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
719
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 22:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: I am rather OCD ...
Congratulations. This trait was probably very valuable in the writing of such a quality post.
|
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 22:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
tldr EVE IS LIKWID!! |
Tinja Soikutsu
Orbital Horizons University GALACTIC UNI0N
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 23:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
@OP It's a game?
Sure we could use Newtonian Physics... and many games do. This isn't one of them. *shrugs* |
|
Brooks Puuntai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
719
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 23:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Eve is not a true space simulator. Never has never will. This should be common knowledge by now. |
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
295
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 23:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Good thing that this is just a video game and I should really just relax. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Lieutenant Community Communication Liasions (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Agent Akari
Hobo Industries Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 23:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
What is the OP complaining about? This is a fantasy game. You are like asking people why a fairy should be real and why my boobs can't be more realistic.
Games are balanced to the players, not to reality. |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
267
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 23:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents. I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online. Tranquility - EVE-EVE-TRANQUILITY - 7.43.412710
- Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this.
- There is no UP or Down in space. There is a galactic or solar north that could be considered UP/DOWN from a graphics stand point, but this has no bearing on space flight except in the sense of magnetic fields. See this. The physics of aeronautical flight do not apply in a vacuum.
- Thus there is no need for a ship to roll in order to change direction. That being said - assuming these ships have gravity plating only on the decks and not on the wall, it may be necessary to roll in order to redirect the Gs of the centripetal force downward. However, this is very poorly implemented; i.e. the center of mass point for the Myrmidon - a very tall ship comparatively; is somewhere in the middle of the ship. Using the theory above - this would throw all the crewmen in the upper levels into the ceiling.
- There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement.
- There is no (relative term) friction in space - see this. Case in point the density of matter is next to nothing due to it being a vacuum. Thus the only environmental force that would interact on the ship's velocity would be micro gravity from larger bodies.
- A space ship would not stop by ceasing forward acceleration (read: Turning off its engines). It would continue on its current vector until it reversed the direction of its engines and accelerated on a reciprocal vector. Read this.
- A space ship would not change directions and then change orientation as is the current case. If anyone has ever piloted a very heavy ship, like a freighter, you may have noticed that the ship points in the direction you want to warp in and then matches the vector after a period of time. While this is a lot closer to true physics it is not realistic. This goes back to the point above as to the reduction of velocity on one vector must be reduced while acceleration is applied to the new vector. For example: in order to make a 90 degree turn on the same plain the ship must yaw (90+45=) 135 degrees in the direction of intended travel before applying acceleration in order to scrub off the velocity on the previous vector. Doing this describes an arc connecting the previous vector with the new one.
This could be coded by placing a fulcrum point ahead of the ship and having the back "fish-tail" or lag directionally when following this point.
As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
Take your Physics elsewhere, the EVE-Verse operates on it's own laws. |
terzslave
RedStar Enterprises RED Citizens
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 00:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Space? You must be mistaken. We're in the ocean. |
Jonah Gravenstein
1090
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 00:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP will be releasing a submarine MMO in 2015, it's a simple reskin. CCP can't patch stupid. |
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 00:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Methesda wrote:I don't think you understand what's going on here. Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles. She was referring to the way the server uses vectors to handle the physical movement calculations. Which is also the reason ships centering and leveling is impossible to avoid.
Yes, I know what she was refering to.
My point was that it was a generalisation that does give any credence to a case for having a 'realistic' physics system in a game.
You're also doing the same thing using the word 'vectors', like it's something that has a special purpose in making a realistic space simulation! Surely the point is, is it *worth* making it realistic?
'Vectors' are also the most appropriate concept for modelling pool-game physics in Eve. Doesn't mean CCP should devote time to putting pool tables in our mackinaws. |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
165
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 00:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
- Been playing for X years and never noticed - No ****/who cares? - Insert backstory/technobabble justification here - Your momma
Pick whichever answer you like. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
101
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 00:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
You answered your entire post. It is all discarded because it is not feasible for game play. Imagine combat when you are flying faster than most weapons can shoot. You pass a guy he fires a missile at you and it is traveling at 1/4 your speed. You fire a hybrid round back at him but you are already out of range. In fact you can not get in range. One second you are too far away to hit him, the next second updates and you are too far past him. At the speed you are traveling at you can not turn around or stop in under 30 minutes. Then another 30 minute burn to get back to comabt area. But then you are going too fast again and what maybe you slowed up this time but he was burning toward you the entire time. So your combined closing speed is now just as fast or faster than what it was before. Zip right past he fires missles which never make it to your position and you never have a second in which your guns are in range to fire at him. etc... real physics just like you want. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 01:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Somebody please introduce the OP to The Secret World Online. I hear that game has great real world physics and reveals to us all the lies that the government has been shoving down our throats. The truth is out there yo. |
|
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
107
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 01:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:Started laughing super hard when I saw: Quote:especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics EvE is not based on the real laws of physics that we currently understand, and I doubt you would be able to find a single law in our current system that actually holds true in EvE.But congratulations on making the same thread that gets made every single week, and congratulations on having an extremely basic knowledge of physics. If you're going to make points, you should at least make them properly. There's nothing funnier than seeing someone who just finished some basic high school physics and all of a sudden thinks they know what they're talking about. Newton's laws are pretty darn hard, aren't they!
You're wrong because Murphy's "laws" apply to EVE. If boot.ini can't be deleted, your harddrive will be formatted instead. Spreading fat from a botter's corpse with a knife over the top of CATalyst's hull will create a perpetual spinning device that'll fry your videocard. |
Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
581
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 01:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
OMG! Sci fi has unrealistic physics!
OMG! |
Nonnosa
Grey Nomads
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 03:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be.
The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip.
If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/
Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again. |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
108
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nonnosa wrote:I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be. The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip. If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again. Haha when I was 7 years old I couldn't manually dock with a station in Elite 1 either, so I had to edit the save file to get the docking computer.
Orbiter is a carebear game, better play Babylon 5:IFH if you want newtonian physics. |
Zanarkand
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
It was confirmed by CCP 5 years ago, that EVE online is actually a Cold War submarine game, but all the commanders are on drugs, and they imagine they are in space. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
1028
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
For **** sake. Why are you so ignorant? THE OBVIOUS REASON FOR SPACESHIPS HAVING MAX VELOCITY IS DUE TO THE WARP CORE THAT ANCHORS ONES SHIP RELATIVE TO THE UNIVERSAL FABRIC.. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
It's easy to code (all of it is a relatively simple thing to do), but why? Other than 'making the game more realistic', what would the point be? EVE is not a spaceflight simulator, and most of the changes you propose would break the systems that are already intact and functional. |
Arbiter Reformed
Analog Folk SRS.
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
you when voyager goes into liquid space? that was eve |
Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:You answered your entire post. It is all discarded because it is not feasible for game play. Imagine combat when you are flying faster than most weapons can shoot. You pass a guy he fires a missile at you and it is traveling at 1/4 your speed. You fire a hybrid round back at him but you are already out of range. In fact you can not get in range. One second you are too far away to hit him, the next second updates and you are too far past him. At the speed you are traveling at you can not turn around or stop in under 30 minutes. Then another 30 minute burn to get back to comabt area. But then you are going too fast again and what maybe you slowed up this time but he was burning toward you the entire time. So your combined closing speed is now just as fast or faster than what it was before. Zip right past he fires missles which never make it to your position and you never have a second in which your guns are in range to fire at him. etc... real physics just like you want.
Would be hilarious. I guess all the kills would result from two ships colliding into each other by accident. Alliances would insert huge walls of noobships to which any invader would probably hit and explode like a supernovae.
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
109
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sebastian LaFleur wrote: Would be hilarious. I guess all the kills would result from two ships colliding into each other by accident. Alliances would insert huge walls of noobships to which any invader would probably hit and explode like a supernovae.
Everyone would explode much sooner by flying through a station or a planet. |
|
Tobey Darkness
Outer Space Task Force Germany
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 07:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
1. Eve is a Submarine Simulator, not a Space Simulator! 2. If you want some nice space gameplay with "realistic" physics, try Kerbal Space Program 3. If you want some nice Simulator, try Space Engine, Universe Sandbox or something like that. 4. "You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration" - Depending on the technology you're using. EVE uses some form of Warpdrive which has no infinite speed and acceleration. 5. With the Warpdrive, the ship aligns itself with the solar systems x-axis. 6. "Friction" - Warpdrive. It's all about the used technics.
And there are other things you might notice: Planets aren't moving. Stations arent as well. Asteroid belts aren't even anything near realistic. Aren't you wondering how so many gigantic ships can fit in that Station in Jita?
Have you asked George Lucas the same questions after watching Star Wars?
I myself would love to see more realistic stuff, like moving planets or realistic asteroid belts, but there is one very good reason why this will never happen: GAMEPLAY.
Do you know what's really dumbing down eve? Graphics! If you really want a hardcoregame with a learning curve that even beats eve: Try bay12games.com/dwarves |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 07:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
does the op realize if we want to have a fully relistic space sim , that most of us would just give up , did you ever tried controlling a object in zero gravity I didn't but i know pretty well it is not easy or did you ever tried real space flight , i didn't but there used to be a great sim out that let you recreate all the great missions in space , historical and what ifs , it is just bloody difficult you can try it here I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
59
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 08:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this. The speeds we achieve are of course nowhere near the speed limit of the universe in normal flight - and we break the speed limit of the universe by a huge factor on a very regular basis in warp... However the tutorial used to discuss the huge fusion reactor which was the source of the power for your capacitor, fuelling that fusion reactor by means of a huge magnetic scoop to drag in interstellar hydrogen would create a very significant drag factor on your ship and therefore a counter to your thrust and an effective speed limit on your ship.
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:
There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement. There is no need for a ship to adjust orientation relative to the star's equatorial plane but if you're static and you have effectively infinite fuel... is there any reason not to? Keep in mind too that your ship's technology is not worked up from first principles - perhaps Terran vessels did have a need to reorient to the star's equatorial plane and what we have is simply a relic from that seed. |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1730
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 08:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
wow, your stupid opinion was sooo worth getting posted !
I congratulate you ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
59
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 09:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down" |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 09:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:the tutorial used to discuss the huge fusion reactor which was the source of the power for your capacitor, fuelling that fusion reactor by means of a huge magnetic scoop to drag in interstellar hydrogen would create a very significant drag factor on your ship and therefore a counter to your thrust and an effective speed limit on your ship.
If that was the explanation then you would fall slowly into the nearest planet when you pressed CTRL+space, because orbiting would be impossible |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1327
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 11:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:For **** sake. Why are you so ignorant? THE OBVIOUS REASON FOR SPACESHIPS HAVING MAX VELOCITY IS DUE TO THE WARP CORE THAT ANCHORS ONES SHIP RELATIVE TO THE UNIVERSAL FABRIC.. What pattern is this fabric?
I think this is an important question
its plaid rite?
rite? TK is recruiting |
Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 11:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down"
LOL, That is so true!
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
Sinigr Shadowsong
WATAG Academy SOLAR WING
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 11:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eve "space" actually much more like liquid enviroment. Spaceships act like submarines. Submarines have "Up" and "Down" side, limited maximum speed, lose speed if turn off engines, can be bumped. Charges underwater can only travel a limited distance. Turning is slow rotating, inertia is a non-factor. Lasers disperce on very short distance. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
105
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nonnosa wrote:I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be. The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip. If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again.
You could also check out I-War and I-War 2; they had amazing flight simulation mechanics.
It did give me a proper nerdasm to get to jump through a lagrange point :)
|
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
620
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down"
The Enemy's Gate is Down. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
105
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sebastian LaFleur wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down"
LOL, That is so true!
What on earth, No up and down ?
Sure there is, it's the movement along the plane perpendicular to your current heading. The only thing is, it can only be defined relatively to your position, there's no central reference is all. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Not sure if this has already said, but the ships slow down due to their Warp Field. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Singoth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
120
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
LOL Roleplay: New Eden is a galaxy different than our milky way we live in. In New Eden, our known newtonian physics don't really hold much ground. In New Eden, space is much "denser", and this caused much trouble for the first explorers already, as they were burning through all their fuel, else they would come to a halt. That's also why they never really got far away from the EVE wormhole, and instead had to build stargates to conserve fuel.
However, we, the main races of the universe, learned to live with it, and adapted our ship's engines to work against the apparent "liquid" of space. This same liquid also provides a maximum speed in m/s which can simply not be broken unless you go into a state of Warp, which deforms the dense space/time continuum by creating a zero-point vacuum (a true vacuum without any particles in it.) and just as with air bubbles in water, air bubbles deform the water around them when they accellerate upwards. However, as there is no up or down in space, the vacuum can practically stay still in space... it's only thanks to the drives that we can accellerate that vacuum and travel with it through the "liquid" of space.
While space battles in the milkyway might be fought over millions of miles... combat in EVE is only a couple hundred km at most, thanks to the reduced speeds.
This same liquid also made sure there is a lot of invisible mass (called Dark Matter) which prevents the creation of stars, and as such, New Eden has only around 5000 systems with stars, while normal galaxies like the milky way have billions of stars. This creates a dim galaxy that our ancestors from the milkyway, probably can not even see.
There, is your OCD happy now? xD Less yappin', more zappin'! |
Anunzi
High House Of Shadows Tribal Band
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:45:00 -
[65] - Quote
OMG! Waaaaay better than OPs sperge.
+1 for the nostalgia.
|
Mirajane Cromwell
82
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
Skogen Gump wrote:Nonnosa wrote:I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be. The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip. If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again. You could also check out I-War and I-War 2; they had amazing flight simulation mechanics. It did give me a proper nerdasm to get to jump through a lagrange point :) I also think that I-War and I-War have so far had the best implementation of newtonian physics + space combat. The warp drive there was pretty cool too.. you could cruise at warp speed to any direction.
In Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters the newtonian physics were really cool but the space combat was hilariously difficult - it was like 2 ships connected to each other with rubber band and you tried to hit the enemy in a fraction of second when you passed over the other ship, then turn around and start accelarating the opposite direction (while still flying near light speed towards some station/planet) and on each pass the distance between ships got shorter and once the speed of the ships was matched then the combat was somewhat doable. Took months to reach the Elite rank. Such PvP environment wouldn't work at all in Eve. |
Tobias Zacharian
Saiph Industries SRS.
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
As I recalled, correct me if I'm wrong, I read somewhere that the warp drives on our ships cause friction in subspace, which makes it seem like we're flying underwater. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Singoth wrote:LOL Roleplay: New Eden is a galaxy different than our milky way we live in. In New Eden, our known newtonian physics don't really hold much ground. In New Eden, space is much "denser", and this caused much trouble for the first explorers already, as they were burning through all their fuel, else they would come to a halt. That's also why they never really got far away from the EVE wormhole, and instead had to build stargates to conserve fuel.
However, we, the main races of the universe, learned to live with it, and adapted our ship's engines to work against the apparent "liquid" of space. This same liquid also provides a maximum speed in m/s which can simply not be broken unless you go into a state of Warp, which deforms the dense space/time continuum by creating a zero-point vacuum (a true vacuum without any particles in it.) and just as with air bubbles in water, air bubbles deform the water around them when they accellerate upwards. However, as there is no up or down in space, the vacuum can practically stay still in space... it's only thanks to the drives that we can accellerate that vacuum and travel with it through the "liquid" of space.
While space battles in the milkyway might be fought over millions of miles... combat in EVE is only a couple hundred km at most, thanks to the reduced speeds.
This same liquid also made sure there is a lot of invisible mass (called Dark Matter) which prevents the creation of stars, and as such, New Eden has only around 5000 systems with stars, while normal galaxies like the milky way have billions of stars. This creates a dim galaxy that our ancestors from the milkyway, probably can not even see.
There, is your OCD happy now? xD
Hey that was awesome. Thanks.
A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Okay, how about this. Warp drives and gravity are both related to manipulation of space, so the warp drive can be used to explain the abscence of gravity. Then the hydrogen scoop can explain space friction, and maybe even vaildate some of the more funky ship designs- for example if your ship would spin to port because of unbalanced thrusters you can simply extend the starboard hydrogen scoop to balance it out. |
Smapty
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 15:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
I guess we'll need to get rid of the fiery explosions in space, too, since that's fairly impossible in a vacuum.
Oh, and aren't lasers invisible without an atmosphere full of crap to pass through? No more seeing yourself shoot, sorry Amarr.
Oh, and since faster than light travel actually warps time, we'll need to adjust everyone else's game clock up a year or two whenever you use a gate. |
|
Kyle Yanowski
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
88
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Your wrong on 3 accounts.
Friction, top speed, and slowing down when not under thrust.
Off to school you go again.
You're, a contraction of you and are. =) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2408
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Applying real world physics to a game, or the SciFi genre in general, where the physics and the inherent properties of how their alien advanced tech works is blatantly at the the whim of the content creators is simply mental masturbati0n. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9392
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:46:00 -
[73] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Ammzi wrote:For **** sake. Why are you so ignorant? THE OBVIOUS REASON FOR SPACESHIPS HAVING MAX VELOCITY IS DUE TO THE WARP CORE THAT ANCHORS ONES SHIP RELATIVE TO THE UNIVERSAL FABRIC.. What pattern is this fabric? I think this is an important question its plaid rite? rite? It's corduroy. That's why ships come to a halt so quickly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
111
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 20:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down"
Watch Star Wars; when a ship is severely damaged it starts to sink lol. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9396
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 20:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
GǪand I have to dust this one off in response.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Boston Grambo
M'Tar Deadspace Guard The Jagged Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 21:22:00 -
[76] - Quote
The OP is none of the following:
- An Astronaut - An Astro-Physicist. - Rocket Scientist
So what right does the OP have in posting such a whiny thread? |
|
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 21:25:00 -
[77] - Quote
Boston Grambo wrote:The OP is none of the following:
- An Astronaut - An Astro-Physicist. - Rocket Scientist
So what right does the OP have in posting such a whiny thread?
How do you know ?
Just kidding!
ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
108
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 23:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents. I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online. Tranquility - EVE-EVE-TRANQUILITY - 7.43.412710
- Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this.
- There is no UP or Down in space. There is a galactic or solar north that could be considered UP/DOWN from a graphics stand point, but this has no bearing on space flight except in the sense of magnetic fields. See this. The physics of aeronautical flight do not apply in a vacuum.
- Thus there is no need for a ship to roll in order to change direction. That being said - assuming these ships have gravity plating only on the decks and not on the wall, it may be necessary to roll in order to redirect the Gs of the centripetal force downward. However, this is very poorly implemented; i.e. the center of mass point for the Myrmidon - a very tall ship comparatively; is somewhere in the middle of the ship. Using the theory above - this would throw all the crewmen in the upper levels into the ceiling.
- There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement.
- There is no (relative term) friction in space - see this. Case in point the density of matter is next to nothing due to it being a vacuum. Thus the only environmental force that would interact on the ship's velocity would be micro gravity from larger bodies.
- A space ship would not stop by ceasing forward acceleration (read: Turning off its engines). It would continue on its current vector until it reversed the direction of its engines and accelerated on a reciprocal vector. Read this.
- A space ship would not change directions and then change orientation as is the current case. If anyone has ever piloted a very heavy ship, like a freighter, you may have noticed that the ship points in the direction you want to warp in and then matches the vector after a period of time. While this is a lot closer to true physics it is not realistic. This goes back to the point above as to the reduction of velocity on one vector must be reduced while acceleration is applied to the new vector. For example: in order to make a 90 degree turn on the same plain the ship must yaw (90+45=) 135 degrees in the direction of intended travel before applying acceleration in order to scrub off the velocity on the previous vector. Doing this describes an arc connecting the previous vector with the new one.
This could be coded by placing a fulcrum point ahead of the ship and having the back "fish-tail" or lag directionally when following this point.
As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
i got some lines for you the short answer of this wall of text is "ITS A GAME YOU KNOW GAME" not reality .If people get to serieuse the need to stop playing games. |
Lysanne Reqetta
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 11:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Quote:Game physics not realistic for space flight simulation No ****, Sherlock The bep train's a'comin' for you boy! |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 11:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
If OP is a troll he definitely got you all really good. |
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Deena Amaj
Community for Justice Resurrection by Election
33
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 12:46:00 -
[81] - Quote
This is a scifi game with semi-hard (or just soft) scifi facts. It does not advertise hard science facts despite the close usage of real terms and other aspects.
But dude, there is a lot out there that doesn't make sense or even incorporate what the lore states -- not to forget about the descriptions of vessels vs the reality game.
Likewise, it is the same thing with Industrial ships that are damn huge but blow up very easily; even though for this being scifi and far future stuff, I think they are even more fragile than a NASA space shuttle.
// okay, few typoes fix... +¦7 confirthisposmed
I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 13:17:00 -
[82] - Quote
Welcome to 2003 op.......
When they make eve 2 in 2021 maybe they will implement space realism, but then realism would be both confusing and probably rather boring so maybe not. Submarines in space ftw. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9399
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 13:22:00 -
[83] - Quote
GǪand anyway, EVE is an excellent sci fi sim. It's just not engineering sci-fi, but rather Le Guin and PKD-style social sci-fi. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
621
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 15:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
Sci-Fi that's about the science is boring.
All I ask from Sci-Fi is that the science is consistent. The science exists so you can put the protagonists/antagonists through specific scenarios. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
162
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 22:41:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:
- Space does not have a maximum speed.
I think you'l find it does, so i stopped reading here.
Can't believe we've gone 5 pages without someone spotting that one. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1289
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 22:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:Ogedei Khaghan wrote:
- Space does not have a maximum speed.
I think you'l find it does, so i stopped reading here. Can't believe we've gone 5 pages without someone spotting that one. As far as we know, it could be unlimited.
The speed of light is not the end, just a big hurdle. Scientists have discovered some odd particles that are faster than light, and cease to exist once they slow below the speed of light (more like cease to be detectable).
It was an interesting research paper, I'll try to find it, but it was back in 09... |
Vertinox
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 03:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Your wrong on 3 accounts.
Friction, top speed, and slowing down when not under thrust.
Off to school you go again.
What? There is no friction in space except the every odd millionth particle that hits you ship which is basically 1 atom every square meter.
Top speed in space (in real life) is the speed of light which going sublight speeds you will never reach.
Secondly you do not slow down when out of thrust in space. You keep going until unless you enter a gravity well you can't escape from, orbit, or hit another object. |
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 03:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
This thread again |
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
48
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 06:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tobey Darkness wrote:...Aren't you wondering how so many gigantic ships can fit in that Station in Jita? ...
It would be neat if there was a limit to stations. I can see it now "What! 20 ship wait! oh sht," A ganker smorgasbord.
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
694
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 08:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Boston Grambo wrote:The OP is none of the following:
- An Astronaut - An Astro-Physicist. - Rocket Scientist
So what right does the OP have in posting such a whiny thread?
So what right do you have to reply at any post on the EvE forum? If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
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