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Raho Ure
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Posted - 2011.05.23 06:19:00 -
[1]
Hi Lads,
Thought I'd post and see if you guys could shed some light on my situation. I fly the following Wolf fit when I solo roam and have had a ton of success with it.
Vagawolf...
- 3x 150m T2 AC - Neut
- Gistii B Type MWD - Warp Distruptor T2
- 2x Tracking Enhancer T2 - Gyro T2 - Adaptive Nano T2
- Barrage Ammo
- Burst Rig - Anti-Explo Pump
With my skills I can do...
1900 m/s OH 2800 m/s Optimal Range at 20km DPS w/ Barrage 180/210 OH 4500 EHP
Now I love this fit, it works with my fighting style and gives me great GTFO options, Interceptors run from it and I can play with blobs by drawing out other frigs to kill.
Now during my roams I have come across the mighty 'flavor of the month' Dramiel. I have read lots of threads about how to kill it. And 90% of them seem to point to a ship specifically setup to kill these things and do nothing else. Sept the Daredevil (but thats out of my budget)
I know the Dram cost almost twice as much as one of my Wolfs, but I'd like to 'stand a chance' so to speak against one. If I could land hits on them, I can scare them off maybe.
Now I would think using Barrage (which I have loaded most of the time) would be ineffective against them as most are shield buffered and have for starters 50% resists against explosive. Which I have found out the hard way several times.
So I was thinking using RF Phased Plasma for the thermal damage as it tends to be the forgotten resist. Using it gives me a range of 15km or so. Which doesn't matter, cause they always come in close to lay the hurt. But I get a boost in tracking and DPS (270)
My tracking (with my implants gets me the following using the 150 AC...
0.41 - Barrage 0.55 - RF Phased Plasma
I also carry Drop Standard (when I find a Dramiel) an get...
0.69 - RF Phased Plasma 0.82 - RF Tit Sabot
Is that enough tracking to hit a Dram orbiting close with AB on?
Oh should I just bite the bullet and go buy one since its only the cost of 2 Wolfs. and solo roam in that?
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.23 06:43:00 -
[2]
You are nearly there but your fit isn't quite up to it (gank or tank-wise) :
[Wolf, Surprise!] Pseudoelectron Containment Field I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S [empty high slot] 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
That will kill Dramiels which haven't met the fit before. Overheat everything immediately and just burn for him. He will (rightly) assume that he can disengage anytime but what he won't be expecting is you hitting to 20km on the approach AND when he runs.
If you don't immediately overheat then he'll probably escape in structure, overheat and he'll pop about 10-15km away as he runs.
There is no point in having a neut on this fit - you never want to be in scram range and if you are then the neut won't help you. A nos might but a neut won't.
NB - if someone HAS come up against the fit before then chances are they simply won't engage.
HTH.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.23 07:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 23/05/2011 07:57:49 Averagely piloted cookie cutter dram will kill that fit without much effort. Tbh rifter will kill it if fight starts in scram range.
Another funny thing about "vagawolf" is, that its actually slower than vaga.
E: Btw dram orbiting scrammed mwd wolf with overheated deadspace ab means around 0,7 ang/s, so you will project around 50% of your dps to him with drop and rf pp. If he catches you with barrage loaded its free kill.
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Raho Ure
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Posted - 2011.05.23 10:38:00 -
[4]
So I guess its a case of if I find a Dram on scan and no doubt looks like there will be an engagement. Load up on RF Phased Plasma, Pop my Drop pill. And when he arrives on grid, over heat and approach guns blazing.
Should I focus on his drones first and get them out of the picture. That will slow down his DPS. What about that RF Tit Sabot, even though it brings DPS down to a mesly 145 DPS @ 14km it bumps tracking up too 0.82.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Othran on 23/05/2011 11:30:34
Originally by: Raho Ure So I guess its a case of if I find a Dram on scan and no doubt looks like there will be an engagement. Load up on RF Phased Plasma, Pop my Drop pill. And when he arrives on grid, over heat and approach guns blazing.
Should I focus on his drones first and get them out of the picture. That will slow down his DPS. What about that RF Tit Sabot, even though it brings DPS down to a mesly 145 DPS @ 14km it bumps tracking up too 0.82.
The way I've done it in the past (and yes Barrage DOES work Luga, but is entirely optional) is :
1) Dramiel burns for you, you burn away for ONE cycle of MWD and start firing; 2) Turn 180 degrees and continue firing, he'll usually overshoot out of scram range as hes so much faster on MWD, if he does then hit MWD and burn once again, if not then proceed to 3) ; 3) He'll be closing in on you at this point so just align for him, by this point he'll be wondering wtf happened to his solopwnmobile and may run. If he sticks then you should be capable of killing him - I guess a nos may help. If he runs then chase.
I know I said "burn towards him" in the first post but that's just a simple way of forcing the overshoot and won't work with a decent pilot. The above isn't intended to be a definitive guide either, its just a suggestion.
The Wolf has more EHP, pretty similar DPS, inferior agility and speed. What it needs and the fit provides is range. My max tracking speed is 0.54 without implants/boosters using RF PP/EMP/Fusion; with barrage its 0.40. On the standard Dramiel fit that is 0.62 and 0.46 respectively but remember that the Dramiel only does about 120DPS best case without the drones.
So there are options and it is do-able. Choice of ammo is personal and I tend not to mess about with higher tracking ammo, it has its place but not the way I fly.
Edit - remember that a Dramiel isn't going to track any better than a Rifter. Its that simple.
HTH.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:49:00 -
[6]
Doesnt make any difference that you sometimes in the past killed some incompetent dramiel pilot. Average pilot in dualprop dram will just kill it with couple of clicks.
Rf pp + drop gives you best chance to kill him and theres always possibility dram pilot will disengage if he starts losing. Im not really sure if buffer or active fit is better, but definitely plug your explosive hole.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Doesnt make any difference that you sometimes in the past killed some incompetent dramiel pilot. Average pilot in dualprop dram will just kill it with couple of clicks.
Rf pp + drop gives you best chance to kill him and theres always possibility dram pilot will disengage if he starts losing. Im not really sure if buffer or active fit is better, but definitely plug your explosive hole.
Average pilot in a Dramiel overshoots 100% of the time.
Explosive hole isn't that much of an issue, same fit kills Sabres 1v1 - and not crapfit ones or inexperienced pilots either.
We'll have to agree to differ. Or whatever
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:54:00 -
[8]
What im saying is - wolf is subpar to dram in every way and if you kill dramiel in wolf it usually means dram pilot was ****. Basing your pvp tactics on pilot overshooting 11k out of scram range is... .
And again, barrage loaded vs dram means you are already dead even if he needed half of its ehp to get in orbit.
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Labceh
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Posted - 2011.05.23 16:20:00 -
[9]
Any dram pilot will be able to run away from this. Believe me, it's happened to me 1000 times.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.23 18:10:00 -
[10]
I think you are better off using a webbing (or TD'ing) Jaguar for Dramiel griefing.
Have had good results using a Slicer of all things. Fill all rig slots with tracking, basic active tank and they burn like everything else plus Dramiel's are opportunistic risk averse little bastards so are reluctant to engage minnie AF's but will pounce on Slicers 99% of the time (because: lol nano-slicer). Scorch half shields by the time scram lands -> Switch to Navy MF evaporate the armour -> Switch to scorch + heat and pop it as it runs.
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:37:00 -
[11]
leave wolf at home, fly jag, profit
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evomad2
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Posted - 2011.05.24 12:31:00 -
[12]
Dunno about the wolf but baiting drams in a drake is proving highly amusing. 6xAMLs & 2 med neuts, scram, point, 3x webs, warriors. Rest whatever. Wait for him to set up orbit, then overload the lot, hit him with everything and listen for the tell-tale sound of soiled underwear. If he gets out it will be in structure while wondering WTF just happened.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.05.24 13:29:00 -
[13]
Not sure about using a wolf for killing drams. It's possible, but you'll miss a lot of kills because of no web. Your best chances are probably the jaguar, daredevil, caldari frigs with dual webs (hookbill for instance), slicer or possibly a cruor.
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muhadin
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:24:00 -
[14]
Dramiel will eat that wolf fit..
Yesterday i killed a dram in lowsec in a warp scram+web Ab rifter, armor tanked with hg slaves, had 10k EHP, twice as much as a dramiel, i ate him.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.05.24 17:19:00 -
[15]
I think running a slave set and using it for rifters might be kind of impractical for 99% of the eve population. Cool to see that it works, though.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.05.24 17:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Othran
So there are options and it is do-able. Choice of ammo is personal and I tend not to mess about with higher tracking ammo, it has its place but not the way I fly.
While I really like your vagawolf, I question the choice of barrage. In my experience, most dram pilots load RF ammo rather than barrage. Hence they do 25% more dps, and have much better tracking when compared to your barrage fit wolf.
A seasoned dram pilot would know the wolf lacks a tracking bonus, and attempt to exploit the tracking vulnerability by orbiting under 1km. Given their stupidly low agility (they align faster with a MWD running than your wolf does without a propulsion mod), they should be able to get under your guns before losing a significant portion of their shield buffer, at which point your SOL.
Ironically, many dram pilots will orbit at 2km's and would not take advantage of your poorer tracking, giving you the km.
Personally, I'm an in your face kinda guy. As such, I would use RF ammo in the wolf to eliminate its tracking vulnerability. Then the wolf would out buffer, out dps, and outrange the dram....
Your method, while probably very successful, would be more difficult to master!
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2011.05.24 21:55:00 -
[17]
A warrior II fitted Ishkur or Worm will make the dram run for the hills and a tracking disruptor will make it so that he will barely scratch you in the process. So if you want to simply chase off all Drams, and Dare Devils for that matter, fit one of those. If you are lucky and run across a stupid dram pilot you might even pop him before he realizes decent skilled warrior II's can close on him and decently hit him as he tries to strafe you. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
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