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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.14 10:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kar Brogan I agree with the above, the amount of space an alliance can control should be the amount they can protect with patrols.The removal of the map would greatly reduce the power of the curent alliances to the point where a medium sized fleet would be required to effectivly cover a constellation, where as currently they can cover a whole region or more.
My point about that is that it wouldn't affect an alliance, at least not in the way most people seem to think.
The alliance wopuld continue to claim all the space they currently do, and when they discover an "invader" would just blob up and go make their life hell. You'd need to be able to bring somewhat equal numbers into alliance space to be effective, with or without the map.
A corp could move into alliance space temporarily of course, setup a POS, do some mining refining etc. But basically the longer you stay (which seems to be the point of "Exodus" no?) the greater the chances you'll be found.
The only thing map removal does is prevent instant response.
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Aretemus
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Posted - 2005.02.14 11:41:00 -
[32]
Keep the map. Lose the pilots in space for areas outside of Concord control, i.e. 0.0 space. With the delay it's useless anyway. From a science fiction standpoint, having a map that displays the latest pod kills, jumps, etc. would be normal because the gates would record jumps, Concord handles pod kills in higher security zones and so on, so they'd file a report which would show up. Of course, without Concord in 0.0, you wouldn't get a pod kill or ships destroyed report. (Actually, they would report kill mail to the central office which would generate a report in a normal setting, but let's forget that part for now) But you should still get a jump report as reported by the gates.
Using A2-V27 as an example, I'd see a lot of traffic, but unless someone PK's in the higher security areas adjacent to that gate, I'd go happily to my doom at the oft camped A2-V27-->Kaira gate. Or, I'd fit my ship accordingly to get past possible problems. Another thing, without some sort of map, you can't plot jumps into 0.0 anyway.
Couple that with a "local only showing if speaking" feature in chat and you bring back a level of the unknown for 0.0 space. And it would be normal for deep space gates to have a reporting delay, as it would take longer for the gate report to be transmitted from gate to gate to the central Concord computers. How long a delay should vary with how deep into 0.0 the gates are.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.02.14 11:44:00 -
[33]
some fringe systems could have a fog of war effect - ie certain intel reported but alliances / corps coudl gather a greater picture by watchtowers - scout drones etc. Limiting their positions would also be good.
Perhaps a few special hidden systems added by the game dev could also be added to encourage greater exploration.
Anyway keep discussing these ideas and adding more the dev team might find something useful
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Bohr
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Posted - 2005.02.14 14:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/02/2005 00:21:33 I know it's been mentioned before, I brought it up well over a year ago yet nothing has happened.
Everyone with half a brain can see this would be good for the game.
Oh and raptor I do think I've been in 0.0 enough to have an informed opinion.
You ever noticed the very small support for this idea? May be why you've been waiting for a year, and probably will be waiting longer.
So you can get a "Hell no!!!" :)
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.02.14 14:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bohr
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/02/2005 00:21:33 I know it's been mentioned before, I brought it up well over a year ago yet nothing has happened.
Everyone with half a brain can see this would be good for the game.
Oh and raptor I do think I've been in 0.0 enough to have an informed opinion.
You ever noticed the very small support for this idea? May be why you've been waiting for a year, and probably will be waiting longer.
So you can get a "Hell no!!!" :)
More people support it than you think.
You think the forums are representative of opinions in-game?
Righto.
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Prothos
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Posted - 2005.02.14 15:03:00 -
[36]
i think the map is fine the way it is so leave it. Griefers. gankers or what ever they want to be called is the only ones that realy won't this.
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NoNameNewbie
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Posted - 2005.02.14 15:04:00 -
[37]
map = ok
show pilots in space = kick it to jove space ....
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flummox
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Posted - 2005.02.14 15:12:00 -
[38]
i'll say this again... if you want your clones to work properly, then the network has to know exactly where you are so it can activate your clone the second your pod is breached.
how do you think to be cloned without this technology?
don't wanna show up on the map? don't get a clone...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.02.14 15:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: mahhy My point about that is that it wouldn't affect an alliance, at least not in the way most people seem to think.
The alliance wopuld continue to claim all the space they currently do, and when they discover an "invader" would just blob up and go make their life hell. You'd need to be able to bring somewhat equal numbers into alliance space to be effective, with or without the map.
A corp could move into alliance space temporarily of course, setup a POS, do some mining refining etc. But basically the longer you stay (which seems to be the point of "Exodus" no?) the greater the chances you'll be found.
The only thing map removal does is prevent instant response.
Yep, and if you added the idea of "watchtower" etc bits into that mix, you'd end up with even more powerful alliances, as they'd install the things all over their space and thus outmanuever any potential "invader". 0.0 expansion would be further curtailed due to alliance dominance of the space, and general reluctance to open up to new people.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 00:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: myggan i remeber this ccp had a vote about it 1 1/2 year ago think 80% of eve said no to it
It was more like 60/40 with the alliance people quivering in their pantys about people possibly taking their ****, them not seeing every intruder at once. Fear is your only god.
Bohr, I know you'll slam every idea I ever post 'cause you think you're a superior being so your 'no-one agrees with you, go away!' approach doesn't phase me one bit. In fact if you'd agreed with me I'd gotten a little confused and gone looking for a possible flaw.
Convert Stations
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Damajink
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Posted - 2005.02.15 00:19:00 -
[41]
IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.02.15 01:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
WTS: Scouts.
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Damajink
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Posted - 2005.02.15 02:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
WTS: Scouts.
No local, no map, what's the scout gonna see? You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in?
Hello even more gateganks than there are right now.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.02.15 02:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Damajink
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
WTS: Scouts.
You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in?
No, I expect scouts to go out, find the mining op, then call in the cavalry.
I expect further use of spies.
I expect well known mining spots to be vacated and people use POS refinery's more often because they can be moved. People will take the 25% hit on refining because they know they can hide away.
I expect dead end and / or two way systems to become strategically valuable, because they require minimal scouts.
In short, I expect to work harder to find kills and for it to be easier to sneek up on them if they're not willing to put the effort in to making sure they know what is going on around them. That is how it should be, imo.
If you wanna go gate ganking, then by all means be my guest, we'll just swing past on the way through and have a blast.
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Razor Jaxx
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Posted - 2005.02.15 07:29:00 -
[45]
Agreed with the following :
- Lose the "pilots in space" and "pilots docked and active" map displays. - Do not show a player in local unless he/she talks.
You can still derive sufficient information from the map by using the gate jumps and ship kills displays.
Scouting will have a true meaning again. No more blobbing/docking at the mere sighting of a neutral pilot. And local "fog-of-war" will make smackers stfu or starve.
This will also give a new meaning to the soloers out there who want to make a career in deep-space exploration, they could actually money their experience and service.
All changes for the good, obviously.
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Ranger Whitestar
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Posted - 2005.02.15 11:49:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ranger Whitestar on 15/02/2005 11:55:14
you dont need to frag the map, just restrict it. whatever race you are gets you the intel on the whole part of the map they own. so caldari would be instantly be able to see all caldari space. as for the rest, go explore and find out and stop being boring.
once you do explore a region it becomes availible on the map to see, but you dont get all but basic intel (pod/ship kills in the last 24 hours) on it. to increase the intel you have, get a good standing with an agent in the system/region. there would be a reason to run missions for intelligence agents then. well thats the way id like to see it work, never played a game where everything was explored before i explored it. and yo be quite frank that has taken a whole area of what this game should have gameplay wise away. one of the main reasons to play games like this is to explore and find stuff.
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voodoo
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Posted - 2005.02.15 11:55:00 -
[47]
Map is fine. imo
Howabout this for a new project for ccp
FIX THE FLEET BATTLE LAG! BAH FIX THE SERVERS!!!
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Damajink
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Posted - 2005.02.15 12:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Damajink
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Damajink IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANYONE YOU CAN'T KILL ANYONE
WTS: Scouts.
You really think people are going to sit at planets scanning gates all day in the hope they catch someone on the jump in?
No, I expect scouts to go out, find the mining op, then call in the cavalry.
I expect further use of spies.
I expect well known mining spots to be vacated and people use POS refinery's more often because they can be moved. People will take the 25% hit on refining because they know they can hide away.
I expect dead end and / or two way systems to become strategically valuable, because they require minimal scouts.
In short, I expect to work harder to find kills and for it to be easier to sneek up on them if they're not willing to put the effort in to making sure they know what is going on around them. That is how it should be, imo.
If you wanna go gate ganking, then by all means be my guest, we'll just swing past on the way through and have a blast.
But this is the problem. Making people work harder for kills is all well and good, but this system once again just favours the attacker even more.
I would support removal of local OR the map, but not both. I really don't see how PvP will be improved with the loss of both. There are already too many gate camps in this game and they will simply increase.
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BuRnEr
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Posted - 2005.02.15 12:46:00 -
[49]
better scanner - yes map - yes local - no
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 13:33:00 -
[50]
Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas.
Convert Stations
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.02.15 13:36:00 -
[51]
map skill levels anyone
Another idea level 1 allows you to see 5 map sectors in each direction Level 2 gives you 10 Level 3 gives you 50 Level 4 gives you 200 Level 5 gives you 1000 Level 6 gives 5000 Level 7 - gives access to special systems (if they are added hidden ssytems that yield rare minerals, highly dangerous NPC BS fleets or even gladiator areans) ? Or the much valuted gambling system - casino where you can make or lose a fortune ?
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 14:00:00 -
[52]
Too easy and again making EVE a lot smaller and shallow than it need to be.
Convert Stations
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Damajink
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas.
So you want 0.0 without the danger?
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:06:00 -
[54]
Since when did certain death get watered down to mean danger?
Convert Stations
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Sorry but removing local and keeping the telltale signatures of the map only caters to pirates & alliances. I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas.
And you think not showing up on the map is going mean you can live in 0.0 in alliance claimed territory? They'll never find you? They won't see you travelling between Empire and your new home? No body will stumble across you randomly? The alliances wouldn't ask members to actually scout around a bit?
You still be found, it would just take longer. At which point you still have to contend with whoever claims that space.
With or without map its still 0.0 space.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:13:00 -
[56]
Yes and your point being?
Convert Stations
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Yes and your point being?
If its certain death now, its still certain death without the map. Its just certain delayed.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 15:17:00 -
[58]
Well then delay it so there's some hope in hell the fraghags will be too complacant or busy otherwise. The certainty of it all keeps people out, we know what to expect as they know, if they don't then they'll have to work for it and my guess is you people will work less than you boast about being able to.
Convert Stations
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.15 16:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Well then delay it so there's some hope in hell the fraghags will be too complacant or busy otherwise. The certainty of it all keeps people out, we know what to expect as they know, if they don't then they'll have to work for it and my guess is you people will work less than you boast about being able to.
I never said I was fully opposed to changing the map. I'm simply trying to point out the utter fallacy in thinking that because the maps gone you have more chance of surviving in 0.0. Your the one who said:
Originally by: Danton Marcellus I'm speaking for the rest of us wanting a break to actually go live in 0.0 without the certain death which is ensured by the map giving us up like a prepaid Judas.
If you think that alliance claimed space is certain death now, I'm just saying nothings changed except the time it takes for you to be discovered. Once a target has been discovered the "fraghags" as you put it will still come running.
Changing the map would possibly allow groups/corps more freedom of movement, but once you settle into an area/system, you're just as likely to be attacked.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 16:19:00 -
[60]
I've never said I wanted a Cloak of Concord either, I only want the means to operate in 0.0.
Whoever said we'd settle before we thought we could make a stand? You're assuming too much.
Convert Stations
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