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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Tanaka Sekigahara
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:04:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara on 31/05/2011 07:13:09 Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara on 31/05/2011 07:12:11 Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara on 31/05/2011 07:07:57
Originally by: CCP Loxy
Originally by: Kurj Valdoria Loxy I think what you're failing to grasp here is that this could all be casted. Very little time would be needed to set it up. It would be in 720p or 1080p. It wouldn't cost CCP anything. You're just choosing not to even try because you don't understand.
I think after streaming the tournament since 2005 I might have an idea. The point is we're choosing not to do a sub standard show in order to commit to an awesome two weekends. It's fine saying how easy it is to do an amateur stream but we have to keep a certain level of quality, we have to have backups, we have to have commentators (seriously we'd get just as many complaints if we didn't).
We've used this time to start building the set, I've been filming the matches for some awesome footage to make material for the live show. We're all here, we're all working to make this happen but we've decided not to stream it purposively.
I'd encourage the teams to fraps or stream their own fights if they want to record their fights themselves.
We understand " what you are choosing", and we are shrieking it was a bum call. What part of it was a bad call dont you get. Have you seen a single post here saying otherwise? I haven't, and I cant tell you how disappointed I was, as even a casual follower of the tourney not to have them covered, even by radio. We understand you decided not to allow a stream of these fights "purposefully", and we say, yet again sir, it was a bad call.
Stream the qualifiers and open a live chat for them, thats all.Then it wont be "your coverage", just, a stream of the event, that everyone is asking for
Also, as an aside, may I say the decisiion to cut one type of coverage and "compensate" by adding an extra weekend is in fact a concession and admission that it cant even be argued the coverage is better, just different.
You seem a stubborn fellow unwilling to concede a poor decision was made, and representing CCP as incalcitrant helps not a wit when by now it should be quite clear regardless of what you say, we are dissatisfied and are not buying what you are selling.
Stream them, open live chat, and that's that. Your position that " people will complain anyway" maybe so, but they wont be complaing they cant see the fights.The whole thing seems like it was run by someone who was irritated they had to do it.
From the point of view of someone who plays eve as a wargame, anyone knows that the AAR ( after action review)is where most of the lessons are learned, and the part of the game where people actually get better. The teams that forked over 2 bil for a 5v5 match don't even have the ability to post-fight analyze their own failures to get better for the future, and no, the little fights were people make common and classic mistakes are as invaluable, and in fact can be as entertaining as watching the "Main event" between top ranked teams.
Race week at Indy and Daytona are weeklong events of which 90% of the action is qualifiers.They are the most fun. It's also where most of the money is made from advertising and marketing, and where most of the buzz about the event in general is built up and where more new people are drawn in. I say again sir, it was a bum call, and to persist otherwise is to stand on untenable ground. War is Hell- William Tecumseh Sherman |
Maximus Gladius
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:37:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Toight Tigah the fact that we had to watch/read these matches in an IRC chat room to follow what was going on was the saddest experience ive ever had in eve.
this is 2011 and you guys run an internet gaming company and seriously this was your best effort?
My god. Seriously. How can you not grasp this.
Is there noone, noone there that can rectify this for next weekend? I'm not sure you comprehend how this looks from the outside.You are losing more than you can ever regain by 2 weeks of great coverage.
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Kruger81
Caldari draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.31 09:46:00 -
[183]
Was thinking about resubbing my 2 chars to have a EvE comeback, but not be able to see the "whole" AT9 and theese replys from CCP makes me not want to...
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Tester128
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:01:00 -
[184]
Hello CCP, reality check "WI owns goonswarm (PL B Team) in AT9" video on youtube have 3600 viewings so far. It's 3600 unsatisfied customers today, who don't give a dead fly about your uberhigh standards of excellence next month. Is it clear or do we have to draw a picture?
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The DonutPuncher
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:26:00 -
[185]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Milli Rachet Then let the community do it soundwave? CCP won't have to take any part of it.
That's the issue, we'd still be sanctioning it if we had them on grid with camera accounts. I'm thrilled that teams are taking it on themselves, but apart from allowing players to film the fights, there's not much we can do.
Still. Four days with a live studio. I can't tell you how much I've missed that. A single studio weekend you never really hit the groove properly, this is going to be good.
Sanctioning "it"?????The matches are already sanctioned.Seeing them without your "sanction"?
" There's not much we can do?" That statement itself is a crock. Obviously any policy CCP wants can be set. The statement is patently false. First GM is rude and obnoxious, second one is flat out dishonest.One can see why this is such a cluster **** of an event.
We are all thrilled that YOU are happy that YOU set up the tournament so YOU can have 4 days of studio coverage that YOU think is great with snarky emo announcers talking about how boring the fight is, but lets be clear, the only one who gives a ****e about the "coverage hitting a groove" is marketing personell at CCP, and please tell them they blew this one out their arses. They gain no fans, and lose at least as many as any they might have gotten. Every single person I have spoken to about this is so PO'd that they have no interest whatsoever in this tourney, which , once a community event, has been blatantly hijacked as an advertising opportunity for CCP. Shame on you, and the hubris of the GMs.
Someone in charge over there needs to lay hands on this and unscrew it and restore some customer confidence if nothing else.
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TamiyaCowboy
Caldari KRAKEN FLEET
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:38:00 -
[186]
CCP lOXY
you do not see the world cup qualifiers not being shown on tv, why ? because they are nearly if not more exciting than the major games themselves.
not showing the torney qualifiers, is just like the world cup qualifiers not being shown. i dont think you would ever see this happen.
i am sure there are a couple ccp people that can comment on matches and a cheap old stream it could be thrown on.
torney was one highlight i enjoyed now that has been NERFED
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RuriHoshino
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:51:00 -
[187]
CCP, you've already selected the commentators for the officially "interesting" 10v10 matches, maybe see if a few of them would be willing to volunteer to commentate from home? Wasn't that done in years past?
Then all you have to worry about is providing access to a camera client, and the actual streaming itself, the logistics for which should frankly already be in place. It need not be difficult.
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steave435
Caldari Rens 911 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.05.31 18:02:00 -
[188]
I'd even be willing to pay a plex or something if it was really necessary to get a live stream. I really shouldn't have to, there's been radio streams and matches uploaded to youtube for years before we even got the live video streams (since ever?), and prioritizing studio talk over the actual event being talked about, but I'd do it if it was neccecery to get the higher ups to give it the go ahead.
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2011.05.31 18:26:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:28:38 Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:27:06
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 31/05/2011 18:13:22 Edited by: steave435 on 31/05/2011 18:11:56 Edit, I actually see where they're coming from. I DON'T agree with it, but I can see how it would make sense to the higher ups that are probably making that call. All of us in here complaining are already hooked to the game and will continue playing regardless of whether or not the qualifiers get broad casted, but it would be unlikely to attract an outsider to try it out since he'd not understand it. He'd see brackets flying around on the screen and a few bars turning from white to red on the sides of the screen but not really understand what was happening, with boring pauses in between making him go do something else. On the other hand, if there's a studio there talking about what happened on a basic level in between and explaining it in between, the fights and tactics might start getting interesting for the new guy as the day progresses, and he might end up signing up.
They're coldly counting on that ****ing the vets still won't make them quit, while focusing on the uninitiated may attract new people. It sucks, but CCP is a company and focused on maximising profits after all.
I would be willing to pay a plex or something to get streams for the whole event though, just saying....
However that does not take into account that the community would have done it for free or even the radio stations would have broadcast commentary which is something they have done almost every other alliance tournament if not all of them so its not like its doing something different. As it is those streaming/frapsing are just making CCP look stupid which is fine when they are acting like stubborn fools.
Secondly its mainly those bitter vets who would be linking people to the stream in order to get them to watch and perhaps get them into eve so by ****ing them off you actually lose a large percentage of your possible viewers/recruits by association.
Not to forget as I posted either earlier on in this thread or in another 90% of the time the first round fights have far more views than those later on with the exception of possibly the finals/semis and even some of those are eclipsed by the qualifiers.
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steave435
Caldari Rens 911 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.05.31 19:58:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Random Womble Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:28:38 Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:27:06
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 31/05/2011 18:13:22 Edited by: steave435 on 31/05/2011 18:11:56 Edit, I actually see where they're coming from. I DON'T agree with it, but I can see how it would make sense to the higher ups that are probably making that call. All of us in here complaining are already hooked to the game and will continue playing regardless of whether or not the qualifiers get broad casted, but it would be unlikely to attract an outsider to try it out since he'd not understand it. He'd see brackets flying around on the screen and a few bars turning from white to red on the sides of the screen but not really understand what was happening, with boring pauses in between making him go do something else. On the other hand, if there's a studio there talking about what happened on a basic level in between and explaining it in between, the fights and tactics might start getting interesting for the new guy as the day progresses, and he might end up signing up.
They're coldly counting on that ****ing the vets still won't make them quit, while focusing on the uninitiated may attract new people. It sucks, but CCP is a company and focused on maximising profits after all.
I would be willing to pay a plex or something to get streams for the whole event though, just saying....
However that does not take into account that the community would have done it for free or even the radio stations would have broadcast commentary which is something they have done almost every other alliance tournament if not all of them so its not like its doing something different. As it is those streaming/frapsing are just making CCP look stupid which is fine when they are acting like stubborn fools.
Secondly its mainly those bitter vets who would be linking people to the stream in order to get them to watch and perhaps get them into eve so by ****ing them off you actually lose a large percentage of your possible viewers/recruits by association.
Not to forget as I posted either earlier on in this thread or in another 90% of the time the first round fights have far more views than those later on with the exception of possibly the finals/semis and even some of those are eclipsed by the qualifiers.
This is true, but will you honestly stop telling people about eve just because the qualifiers were not streamed? If I'm completely honest, if those 2 studio weekends turn out to really be a good basic introduction to eve mechanics and tactics while staying interesting, that's what I'd tell my friends to start out with, but if they're just gonna sit there and not get it I wouldn't. When talking about view counts, marketing dudes are mainly interested in how many potential customers rather then how many people are watching, and they'd argue that the fact more people watched the qualifiers (if that is true) then the finals may mean that new people wanted to check EVE out but got disappointed and didn't bother to check it again later.
They may be right from a pure profit POV, or the extra customer satisfaction from producing a good event for the vets could be worth more. I'm not sure, but I think it's very likely that the decision was made by higher ups that don't care what we say here.
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Ancient Memories
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Posted - 2011.05.31 20:29:00 -
[191]
Originally by: steave435 They may be right from a pure profit POV, or the extra customer satisfaction from producing a good event for the vets could be worth more. I'm not sure, but I think it's very likely that the decision was made by higher ups that don't care what we say here.
Those higher ups should be ashamed of themselves. They never heard of word of mouth?
The same ass backwards, marketing first american-bull got their country where it is now - up for grabs.
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2011.06.01 00:38:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Random Womble on 01/06/2011 00:39:18
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: Random Womble Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:28:38 Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2011 18:27:06
Originally by: steave435 Edited by: steave435 on 31/05/2011 18:13:22
However that does not take into account that the community would have done it for free or even the radio stations would have broadcast commentary which is something they have done almost every other alliance tournament if not all of them so its not like its doing something different. As it is those streaming/frapsing are just making CCP look stupid which is fine when they are acting like stubborn fools.
Secondly its mainly those bitter vets who would be linking people to the stream in order to get them to watch and perhaps get them into eve so by ****ing them off you actually lose a large percentage of your possible viewers/recruits by association.
Not to forget as I posted either earlier on in this thread or in another 90% of the time the first round fights have far more views than those later on with the exception of possibly the finals/semis and even some of those are eclipsed by the qualifiers.
This is true, but will you honestly stop telling people about eve just because the qualifiers were not streamed? If I'm completely honest, if those 2 studio weekends turn out to really be a good basic introduction to eve mechanics and tactics while staying interesting, that's what I'd tell my friends to start out with, but if they're just gonna sit there and not get it I wouldn't. When talking about view counts, marketing dudes are mainly interested in how many potential customers rather then how many people are watching, and they'd argue that the fact more people watched the qualifiers (if that is true) then the finals may mean that new people wanted to check EVE out but got disappointed and didn't bother to check it again later.
They may be right from a pure profit POV, or the extra customer satisfaction from producing a good event for the vets could be worth more. I'm not sure, but I think it's very likely that the decision was made by higher ups that don't care what we say here.
Well tbh yes i am less likely to get people to watch, from a selfish point of view right now im a participant and i have more incentive to say to people i know hey watch this because im in it while when it comes to the finals weekend 36 teams which equates to roughly 180 players will be out and i may well be from one of those teams. now admittedly that is a small number of players but it all counts. Right now with no stream they have 0 potential customers and a lot of bad PR word of mouth wise.
Plus its not like there needed to be any costs to CCP other than possibly 5 minutes to move the person to Jove space the devs have probably wasted more time having to answer why they did it this way. if they really wanted to make it impossible for them to interfere they could just force them to be in a pod and hold them down with a 100% dev/gm web so that they can't move into the arena (im sure they have tools too but using mechanics seems more fun).
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Dark Shines
Gallente Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 21:13:00 -
[193]
Then why don't all of the participating teams refuse to fight until standards are met? That might make ccp take another look -----------------------------------------------
Hard work never killed anybody, but why take a chance?" |
steave435
Caldari Rens 911 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.06.01 23:02:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Dark Shines Then why don't all of the participating teams refuse to fight until standards are met? That might make ccp take another look
Because it's a lot of fun and the prices are slightly valuable?
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Calon Seth
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Posted - 2011.06.02 21:12:00 -
[195]
I was pretty excited for the start of the tournament. I checked the match times, started looking for the streams like I did last year and then... nothing?
Maybe it's a problem so I'll check the next day... then nothing?
So I come on here, read the posts by the utterly unprofessional CCP employees (Loxy getting snippy and smug with CCP customers who are, by the way, absolutely right. Classy), and you know what? Combined with the fact that next weekend is a no go as well, I'm not nearly as excited for this tournament.
You say you strive for excellence, yet this is a half-assed attempt at such a goal. Good corporations would provide all four weeks of excellence and really show what kind of quality you can get from their products.
You volunteered to broadcast a tournament. Not half a tournament. Loxy says they've been doing this since 2005. If that's the case, then they should be experienced enough to put a quality production on for the entire tournament. It's not hard to ask of someone with that kind of experience.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.03 20:15:00 -
[196]
last time they did exactly what everyone is asking for in the thread there was 1 20 page thread whining about quality and that CCP as a large company should live stream like highschoolers.
then they decide to board just 1 weekend and everyone is happy.
then this year they decide to expand it to 2 weekends... and everyone starts complaining?
I want the tourny to expand to 128 teams nextyear, I don't want to watch 6 weeks of fighting just to see who gets into AT10.
Listen I like my free stream of the alliance tourny,and if you do to you'll shut your traps, all of you!
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Axon Atom
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Posted - 2011.06.03 20:18:00 -
[197]
What is calon going on about, they don't always stream every single match.
there is way too many goonswarm alts here. In fact i woulnd't be surprized if I logged in my alt to find a something awful thread telling people to come post here with every character they have.
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Kil2
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.04 00:45:00 -
[198]
Hi friends,
I dont really care to get involved in the main topic of this discussion, other than to say that I hope anyone who is currently disappointed will tune in for the 2 weekends of evetv, and hopefully be happy with what they see.
The reason i post is that it absolutely kills me to see so many people giving loxy a hard time. I can understand that you may not be happy with this or that but I hope everyone can keep in mind that the tournament just would not exist without this guy. Its that simple. For at least the 4 years ive had any involvement in the tournament, he has been coordinating every aspect of production and doing an amazing job, and hes always making huge sacrifices to make it happen.
Again, I know this doesn't necessarily have a huge bearing on the issue of how the tournament is covered from year to year and the decisions related to that topic, but I just hope i can encourage some of you to remember that loxy (and the rest of the team) are the good guys. They came from this community and they are trying to make the best show they can.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.04 02:34:00 -
[199]
Yeah Loxy's cool, mindstar used to be cool, but has been absolutely awful when it comes to AT9, alcohol poisoning is to blame I suspect.
Newbie dev seems harmless, darius johnson is darius johnson, stoffer is just a pretty face and blameless, sunset is not a worthy successor to stevie.
Hopefully the awesome cast of experts will live up to my expectations.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.04 06:06:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Yeah Loxy's cool, mindstar used to be cool, but has been absolutely awful when it comes to AT9, alcohol poisoning is to blame I suspect.
Newbie dev seems harmless, darius johnson is darius johnson, stoffer is just a pretty face and blameless, sunset is not a worthy successor to stevie.
Hopefully the awesome cast of experts will live up to my expectations.
you sound like a kid who only got a blue bike for your birthday when you wanted a red one so your parents are terrible people that hate you.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.04 09:44:00 -
[201]
No I sound like a kid who earned a bike but then got didn't get one due to the organizers lack of adaptability, preparation and stupid format/rule changes.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.04 12:06:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk No I sound like a kid who earned a bike but then got didn't get one due to the organizers lack of adaptability, preparation and stupid format/rule changes.
last year they only showed the final weekend live, now they are showing double the footage this year!
spoiled little brat
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.04 14:32:00 -
[203]
I was talking about stuff like the banning rule, 40-50 teams not being let take part, including two of the quarter finalists from last time (due to removal of top 16 from previous tournament guaranteed spot rule)
devs saying they didn't ~have time~ to change things to accommodate the amount of interest in taking part.
Meanwhile they added 2 more pointless fights in the bracket system, while declining to let volunteers come record and upload the matches "because of quality concerns" they prefer zero coverage and decided incorrectly that we do too.
Leaving a loophole open that anyone can abuse in the second round of pre-qualifiers to guarantee advancing even if you lost your first match with no kills, despite players pointing it out to them repeatedly (no minimum points fielded)
CCP's apparently giving the tournament so little priority and funding that devs have to volunteer their time for it to take place at all
But yeah clearly I'm a spoiled brat and just imagining things, just like you're not a blind fanboy.
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Seldarine
Minmatar Boats 'n Hoes WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.04 14:35:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I was talking about stuff like the banning rule, 40-50 teams not being let take part, including two of the quarter finalists from last time (due to removal of top 16 from previous tournament guaranteed spot rule)
devs saying they didn't ~have time~ to change things to accommodate the amount of interest in taking part.
Meanwhile they added 2 more pointless fights in the bracket system, while declining to let volunteers come record and upload the matches "because of quality concerns" they prefer zero coverage and decided incorrectly that we do too.
Leaving a loophole open that anyone can abuse in the second round of pre-qualifiers to guarantee advancing even if you lost your first match with no kills, despite players pointing it out to them repeatedly (no minimum points fielded)
CCP's apparently giving the tournament so little priority and funding that devs have to volunteer their time for it to take place at all
But yeah clearly I'm a spoiled brat and just imagining things, just like you're not a blind fanboy.
+1
Tyrrax telling it how it is. ______________________________
Seldarine
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Hussain
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:04:00 -
[205]
Up to now:
From this link: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1518282
12709 views.
Not bad but its cleary not what the community wants or needs acording to CCP.
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:07:00 -
[206]
The Alliance Tournament was something that StevieSG was heavily involved in. Now that she has left nobody else at CCP wants to bother with it anymore. This is obvious from the responses from CCP Loxy.
I would not be surprised if this was the last ever Alliance Tournament as CCP clearly don't want to invest any effort into it.
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Xterea
Gallente Scisco Innovation Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:16:00 -
[207]
I have to agree with CCP's decision to not stream the qualifiers.
The fact of the matter is that good Alliance Tournament coverage consists of multiple key features. If any one of these features are missing from the coverage of the tournament, the viewing experience could be dramatically affected. Consequently, ensuring that all aspects of coverage are fully planned out and structured is a primary concern of CCP, thus it takes a lot of time, effort and man power to get it right.
There's no point in broadcasting something if a very small amount of people will actually watch it because it is not the "full show".
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:17:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I was talking about stuff like the banning rule, 40-50 teams not being let take part, including two of the quarter finalists from last time (due to removal of top 16 from previous tournament guaranteed spot rule)
devs saying they didn't ~have time~ to change things to accommodate the amount of interest in taking part.
Meanwhile they added 2 more pointless fights in the bracket system, while declining to let volunteers come record and upload the matches "because of quality concerns" they prefer zero coverage and decided incorrectly that we do too.
Leaving a loophole open that anyone can abuse in the second round of pre-qualifiers to guarantee advancing even if you lost your first match with no kills, despite players pointing it out to them repeatedly (no minimum points fielded)
CCP's apparently giving the tournament so little priority and funding that devs have to volunteer their time for it to take place at all
But yeah clearly I'm a spoiled brat and just imagining things, just like you're not a blind fanboy.
how are you being a spoiled brat now? you're pointing out all of the serious concerns with the alliance tournament instead of yelling at loxy
+1
I still think you're not taking into account the fact that all of your criticisisms of the devs come down to your complaint about funding. This is an unfunded basically fan run event. It just happens the fan is a ccp dev.
So yes there are point loopholes that should be fixed, they didn't have the time to change the rules, they aren't getting paid, and they think that letting in a 3rd party would have some negative side effects. They want to be given the limited funding they do get again next year.
but again I ask you, to take into account that last year we only only got one weekend of coverage. The more support we give them, the more funding they get, the more coverage we get.
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:28:00 -
[209]
Originally by: MotherMoon Sadly people are throwing things around like, CCP loxy doesn't care about the tournament. How dare you, you want them tp pull the whole thing?
Show us a single piece of evidence that CCP Loxy cares about the tournament or is willing to listen to the community.
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Ancient Memories
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:40:00 -
[210]
MotherMoon you got owned in the face now get out.
There is other parts of the forum where you and your ilk can touch each other with words.
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