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Irulan Corinno Caldari 714th SQN - Snowflakes	Posted - 2011.05.30 20:55:00 - [31] Edited by: Irulan Corinno on 30/05/2011 20:55:43 Originally by: Mr Kidd It can go two ways. If CCP see Aurum items as a big success they're going to conclude it'll be a BIGGER success if they move beyond vanity items. or If Aurum items are a failure CCP will see the need to move beyond vanity items in order to make it more successful. What about If CCP see Aurum items as a big success they're going to conclude it'll be a BIGGER success if they introduced even more and different vanity items. The options are endless.
Reyold Bengali Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.30 20:56:00 - [32] Originally by: Irulan Corinno Edited by: Irulan Corinno on 30/05/2011 20:46:00 Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao ...whether introducing mirco-transaction items which improve your characters abilities or give you an obvious edge over other players without it/or ships and completed skills books etc would ever be sold? Perhaps one of you could calm the speculation and hysteria and the bad threads it brings. Wearing an expensive skirt definitely gives me an advantage over other players. I know it really boosts my combat effectiveness. ------- Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 30/05/2011 16:27:49 Originally by: JC Anderson They have stated it will be only Vanity items. But no clue as to if that could or would ever change. They said for now, in future however. Read the Dev Q&A thread for hints clues in their thinking Well that future depends on the SUCCESS of AURUM items now. If they are a big success, you can be sure, ship vanity items are next. Then well... keep thinking where that road leads to. On the other hand, if AUR items are a terrible failure, you can be sure they'll need to escalate to stat items. Then well... keep thinking where that road leads to. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Temo Jick Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:08:00 - [34] The problem with introducing vanity items for $ is that it puts the system in place to introduce other things for $ latter. Hear is senario one: CCP has a problem and needs money imediatly, introducing ingame advantages for $ takes time to implement so it dosnt happen because it wont happen soon enough. Hear is senario two: CCP has a problem and needs money imediatly, Selling in game advantages produces more imediate revenu because people feel obliged to buy to stay competative. There is already a system in place to sell vanity items for $ and it only takes a few clicks to sell advantages with it. So it happens. This is why we dont want Vanity items for $. Its a step too close to worse things. If CCP needs more money let them either rase subscription prices so we all remain on the same footing, or cut their costs by putting their WOD game development on hold untill the depression is over. To error is human but to totaly fail to exterminate the enemy takes a drone.
Daniela Darr	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:16:00 - [35] Edited by: Daniela Darr on 30/05/2011 21:21:26 Originally by: Temo Jick CCP has a problem and needs money imediatly, Selling in game advantages produces more imediate revenu because people feel obliged to buy to stay competative. There is already a system in place to sell vanity items for $ and it only takes a few clicks to sell advantages with it. So it happens. This is why we dont want Vanity items for $. Its a step too close to worse things. If CCP needs more money let them either rase subscription prices so we all remain on the same footing, or cut their costs by putting their WOD game development on hold untill the depression is over. Wel'll see. But I predict there will be a rush on the vanity items and the vanity item development team will work overtime to make more and more different clothes, shoes, accessoires, pets (cats, dogs, slaver hounds, parrots for the pirates) unique paint jobs, dresses, pirate hats (very popular), gala uniforms, red Clear Skies couches, whatever. I bet the microtransaction shop will be an overwhelming succes!!
Florestan Bronstein draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 30/05/2011 22:04:37 The answer to all these threads is simple - continue playing EVE while it is still worthwhile to you, stop once you don't like it anymore. If you are building some huge sandcastle in this game and suffer from a sunk-cost fallacy as a result thereof, then you are pretty dumb - MMOs have a very limited lifetime and everybody knows that. You may have success trying to build social connections that will outlive this game but if CCP were to turn EVE into "Hello Kitty OnlineDOT" tomorrow you shouldn't feel like half of your life's work and accomplishment just got sent into digital nirvana. The experience, memories, friends, ... you made in EVE are yours. Your character, ships, assets, ... are property of CCP. Sometimes it is good to remind oneself of that distinction. Those that are paying money because they hope the game will change for the better are dumb and are setting themselves up for disappointment. Pay for the game you are playing and not for the game you wish you were playing. If you unsubscribe early, notice later on that the game has changed for the better and are mad at yourself for all the lost training time just sell your old character and buy a new one - sending money to CCP is a pretty poor savings plan, saving the subscription fee and buying a new character with PLEX is often a better option (1b ISK/5m SP translates to 345m ISK/month at 2400 SP/h - that's less than one PLEX at current prices). Take a light-hearted approach to the game, don't get too attached to either the game itself, to in-game items or to your social status inside EVE and just follow CCP for the ride. Stay subscribed for as long as you feel you get your money's worth and question yourself honestly about this every time you renew your subscription or buy a PLEX with ISK. If CCP should manage to **** up the game NGE-style it should be a minor inconvenience to you (because you have to go shopping for a new MMO and may want to convince some of your friends to switch as well) but nothing that would really be worth getting butthurt about. I am not saying that it is completely pointless to voice one's opinion on these forums - but some stuff will happen whether you like it or not and no amount of posting will change that. Provide feedback to CCP in those cases when they are likely to listen and mark the inevitable changes down for your "is this game still worth playing/paying for?" review once they have been deployed. edit: obviously I could have posted that short opinion piece in any one of a dozen currently active threads on the eve-o forums.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Irulan Corinno Edited by: Irulan Corinno on 30/05/2011 20:55:43 Originally by: Mr Kidd It can go two ways. If CCP see Aurum items as a big success they're going to conclude it'll be a BIGGER success if they move beyond vanity items. or If Aurum items are a failure CCP will see the need to move beyond vanity items in order to make it more successful. What about If CCP see Aurum items as a big success they're going to conclude it'll be a BIGGER success if they introduced even more and different vanity items. The options are endless. So something like an even cooler monocle that gives +3% tracking to hybrid turrets?
San Severina Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Lady Spank It's easier for CCP to simply lock threads, moderate or simply ignore it's player base rather than answer their concerns. I hope I'm wrong but, I see this as a bad bad turning point in the history of EvE.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao ...whether introducing mirco-transaction items which improve your characters abilities or give you an obvious edge over other players without it/or ships and completed skills books etc would ever be sold? Perhaps one of you could calm the speculation and hysteria and the bad threads it brings. They've made numerous statments on that. Personally, I think they promissed too much even though its highly unlikely that I'd ever pay to get ahead. (I've got level 7 tanks in WoT without paying for premium and working higher). I think most players feel like it would be a slippery slope. Other people, myself included, see the RMT as inevitable, and the CCP sale of plex via the sanctioned exchange of game time for isk being an excellent response. With that ablity to buy isk, pretty much any in game item can be bought with real money as if there were microtransactions availbe for every ship, module and implant. Given that implants buy you sp, we've already got that in game. The virtually unlimmited microtransaction presence in EVE has been tested for a few years now. It hasn't created huge game inbalances , mostly because the game is about a lot more than who has a higher skilled player or better ship. Most players don't spend all their time using thier characters with the most expensive ship that they can fly. The emphasis on teamwork, hunt, supply chains etc also don't have fun or advantage hugely weighted towards items. So, I'm all for CCP making all they can, and more importantly keeping players who like fluffy stuff in games to keep coming in so we can corrupt a fari percentage of them (15% to 25% ? over to the wild darker side of mmorgs and pvp that has a sting to it)
Zoroa Aulx-Gao	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:25:00 - [40] Edited by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao on 30/05/2011 22:25:21 Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 30/05/2011 22:04:37 The answer to all these threads is simple - continue playing EVE while it is still worthwhile to you, stop once you don't like it anymore. If you are building some huge sandcastle in this game and suffer from a sunk-cost fallacy as a result thereof, then you are pretty dumb - MMOs have a very limited lifetime and everybody knows that. You may have success trying to build social connections that will outlive this game but if CCP were to turn EVE into "Hello Kitty OnlineDOT" tomorrow you shouldn't feel like half of your life's work and accomplishment just got sent into digital nirvana. The experience, memories, friends, ... you made in EVE are yours. Your character, ships, assets, ... are property of CCP. Sometimes it is good to remind oneself of that distinction. Those that are paying money because they hope the game will change for the better are dumb and are setting themselves up for disappointment. Pay for the game you are playing and not for the game you wish you were playing. If you unsubscribe early, notice later on that the game has changed for the better and are mad at yourself for all the lost training time just sell your old character and buy a new one - sending money to CCP is a pretty poor savings plan, saving the subscription fee and buying a new character with PLEX is often a better option (1b ISK/5m SP translates to 345m ISK/month at 2400 SP/h - that's less than one PLEX at current prices). Take a light-hearted approach to the game, don't get too attached to either the game itself, to in-game items or to your social status inside EVE and just follow CCP for the ride. Stay subscribed for as long as you feel you get your money's worth and question yourself honestly about this every time you renew your subscription or buy a PLEX with ISK. If CCP should manage to ** up the game NGE-style it should be a minor inconvenience to you (because you have to go shopping for a new MMO and may want to convince some of your friends to switch as well) but nothing that would really be worth getting butthurt about. I am not saying that it is completely pointless to voice one's opinion on these forums - but some stuff will happen whether you like it or not and no amount of posting will change that. Provide feedback to CCP in those cases when they are likely to listen and mark the inevitable changes down for your "is this game still worth playing/paying for?" review once they have been deployed. edit: obviously I could have posted that short opinion piece in any one of a dozen currently active threads on the eve-o forums. Thanks for taking the time to write that, it's pretty healthy attitude to have. Originally by:** Irulan Corinno Edited by: Irulan Corinno on 30/05/2011 20:46:00 Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao ...whether introducing mirco-transaction items which improve your characters abilities or give you an obvious edge over other players without it/or ships and completed skills books etc would ever be sold? Perhaps one of you could calm the speculation and hysteria and the bad threads it brings. Wearing an expensive skirt definitely gives me an advantage over other players. Thats not was I was saying, I'm saying a large number of players seem to think that it is only a matter of time until items that give advantages are sold.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.05.30 22:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao Thats not was I was saying, I'm saying a large number of players seem to think that it is only a matter of time until items that give advantages are sold. As long as players can buy the same items with ISK (via the isk > plex > aurum) there won't have been any sea change. The only issue would be like any other mechanics advantage where ships that cost a lot more isk ( T3 strat cruisers) or very costly implants that improved relative abilities ( snake sets) were so unreachable and so disballancing that they were mostly owned by players using real $ and destroyed the joy of flying other ships or fighting them. As of yet, those cowboys who buy their selve's not just to parity (for lack of play time reasons) but to advantage, are useally show-boating around semi-solo and make fun and interesting targets. They're an asset to the game, especially those who smack talk and make the pleasure of podding them all the better.
Ben Morto	Posted - 2011.05.30 23:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Ben Morto Aurum comes from plex, and plex comes from ISK. PLEX comes form $$. Quote: Everyone has ISK, so everyone will have access to "micro-transaction" itemsà àas long as someone has spent real money. your point? PLEX have been selling for years and everything is fine
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.05.31 00:11:00 - [43] Edited by: Mister Rocknrolla on 31/05/2011 00:11:47 Originally by: Tippia Ah. So you are one of those who think that "catching up" is an applicable concept in EVE. There's just one problem: it's not. And no, it will not even out any kind of advantage. In fact, the more likely scenario is that older players will benefit more from it than new players. It's not about new players. It's about Alts. Experienced players paying $$ to speed train a carrier/hauler/salvage alt. Cheaper than purchasing on char bazaar and you get exactly to pilot you want. I'd pay for that.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.05.31 04:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso the CCP sale of plex via the sanctioned exchange of game time for isk being an excellent response. With that ablity to buy isk, pretty much any in game item can be bought with real money as if there were microtransactions availbe for every ship, module and implant. Given that implants buy you sp, we've already got that in game. The virtually unlimmited microtransaction presence in EVE has been tested for a few years now. It hasn't created huge game inbalances, mostly because the game is about a lot more than who has a higher skilled player or better ship. Exactly, sometimes I don't know what people are so upset about; rl money can already buy you unlimited isk, ships and high SP characters and now they're troubled about the possibility to buy a 1% tracking monocle with rl money. Which you will always be able to buy for ISK as well. Puzzling.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.05.31 04:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Ben Morto your point? My point is that your statement is incorrect. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Wen Jaibao Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.05.31 05:05:00 - [46] Why do I always see the same posters in these kind of threads?
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:02:00 - [47] There is a point that people are missing in the whole MT discussion. Unlike many other MMO's that have a in game store, most items that are available in Eve CAN BE DESTROYED where as in other MMO's they can't. So for example if in General WoW Clone MMO you purchase an item for RL money via their store, it will either be a consumable item that gives a stat boost, some type of mount, armour, weapon etc etc, these items will last for every until the player themselves disposes of it. Now here in Eve that is not true for the most part. So for example if CCP decided to make items that can be used outside a station such as rare faction ships like a Navy State Raven, it will not give that player an advantage because it CAN BE DESTROYED by other players. If somebody purchased a State Navy Raven with Aurum how many times do you think that person will undock their ship and actually use it for anything other the station spinning? This is an advantage that CCP has over every other MMO. If people want to spend more RL money on items which they will not use due to the fear that can and most likely will be destroyed then great.
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Daniela Darr Edited by: Daniela Darr on 30/05/2011 21:21:26 Originally by: Temo Jick CCP has a problem and needs money imediatly, Selling in game advantages produces more imediate revenu because people feel obliged to buy to stay competative. There is already a system in place to sell vanity items for $ and it only takes a few clicks to sell advantages with it. So it happens. This is why we dont want Vanity items for $. Its a step too close to worse things. If CCP needs more money let them either rase subscription prices so we all remain on the same footing, or cut their costs by putting their WOD game development on hold untill the depression is over. Wel'll see. But I predict there will be a rush on the vanity items and the vanity item development team will work overtime to make more and more different clothes, shoes, accessoires, pets (cats, dogs, slaver hounds, parrots for the pirates) unique paint jobs, dresses, pirate hats (very popular), gala uniforms, red Clear Skies couches, whatever. I bet the microtransaction shop will be an overwhelming succes!! I'll be buying stuff... I'm pretty sure of that. I honestly do not think it will turn into anything more than vanity items, but if it does I wouldn't stick around as a paying customer. But all this speculation is useless... There is no way to know what they will do in the future until they do it. These sort of threads just cause friction where it isn't needed.
malaire	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:22:00 - [49] Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao ...whether introducing mirco-transaction items which improve your characters abilities or give you an obvious edge over other players without it/or ships and completed skills books etc would ever be sold? Perhaps one of you could calm the speculation and hysteria and the bad threads it brings. I think this devblog from November 2010 explains it quite clearly: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 two quotes from that devblog (emphasis mine): "You've probably all seen or heard about the changes that hit the test server last month where you could buy a neural remap (redistribution of attributes) with a PLEX. The ensuing community discussion and a whole heap of Council of Stellar Management discussions we had, both during their visit to CCP earlier in October and, through the magic of the internet, has led us to revisit that specific change and helped us form a holistic strategy for virtual goods sales moving forward." "Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and thereæs no design has been done around this, weære just talking strategy now) that anything that doesnæt affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items weære thinking about."
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:25:00 - [50] I have an awesome idea for a custom Thorax skin that I'm definitely not the only person to think of Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Cosmoes Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.31 07:43:00 - [51] I honestly don't think there is answer for this because CCP honestly hasn't decided yet. They havn't ruled it off the table I'd say. They keep saying things like "adjusting strategies in the future" and other stuff. Also if it was completely off the board due to the fanaticism of many of the anti-cashshop group (myself included in here) I'm sure threads like this would probably be a irresistible for some CCP dev to come in and lay down the law. I don't think they are planning for it in the long run.... Hell I don't think CCP have a plan for anything in the long run. Part of the whole agile thing is constantly moving onto new things rather than sticking to some plan so I don't think they plan for anything past a yearm, maybe 2 (DUST/incarna being the exceptions). The rest is vague thoughts in the head of some devs or notes on some backlog which are subject to rapid and complete change. So your best guess for this is trying to make a wild guess. For this I see vanity items proving a success and the plex/Aurum system being an effective counter to exclusive/balance argument, I'm honestly not seeing many reasons for them not to put it in. ------------------- piccy
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.05.31 08:37:00 - [52] Edited by: Wacktopia on 31/05/2011 08:37:24 Originally by: Akita T super-special mega-secret pinky swear I lolled. To the OP et al: Broken record but... we already have it. You can buy a PLEX with real cash and then sell for ISK and then buy a character from the bazaar and items in game. You can also have more than one account etc etc etc. Simple example. Two toons of same age flying Mega's. One guy buys PLEX > ISK > Slave Implants. Now that guy has 33% more Armor bought with real world cash.
Zoroa Aulx-Gao	Posted - 2011.05.31 09:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 31/05/2011 08:37:24 Originally by: Akita T super-special mega-secret pinky swear I lolled. To the OP et al: Broken record but... we already have it. You can buy a PLEX with real cash and then sell for ISK and then buy a character from the bazaar and items in game. You can also have more than one account etc etc etc. Simple example. Two toons of same age flying Mega's. One guy buys PLEX > ISK > Slave Implants. Now that guy has 33% more Armor bought with real world cash. Yeah, I'm familiar with how it is currently, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a non-destructable item (let's say toupT) that gives you something like 20% to shield boost amount or a pair of socks that gives you 10% R.O.F with all weapons. ...And as others have speculated, scram invulnerability, ECM invulnerability, etc. Thats the type of thing I would consider game breaking.
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.05.31 10:27:00 - [54] Its because of falcon.
Riley Moore Sentinum Research	Posted - 2011.05.31 10:28:00 - [55] I want them to sell boosters. 6 pack, +24hour double training speed: 5 dollars. yes I went there. --- Sentinum Research Store

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