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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:32:00 -
[61]
Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: MotherMoon 1.Eve is allready a PC game this lets them sell to a different market.
2.mordern warfare 2 sold 170,000 Copies on the PC, 9 million copies on the xbox, 5 million on the ps3.
Anyone can make numbers up to support their arguement, these numbers are very unbelievable tho.
google is your friend mate. I'm sorry but it's a fact. While it is only the 1st month of sales other fps games have the same trend.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:46:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 06/06/2011 20:18:43
Originally by: Aineko Macx lol as if Dust will have any chance to compete with COD and the likes. Eve keeps hanging in there because it has little competition in its niche. Console shooters are not a niche
You're mixing to completely different levels of category here. By the same logic, EVE doesn't have a chance either because MMOs is not a niche and it has massive competition.
Or, conversely, Dust will have little zero competition in its niche (because that niche is not "console shooter", but console MMOFPS).
Done right, Dust will be to COD what EVE is to WoW ù superficially the same overall category of games, but not even remotely the same genre and definitely not the same niche. And for the same reason, Dust has the same chance of survival as EVE has, and much for the same reason: because it is not like the other bland-o-ramas, but something unique, that keeps its players by being the only game out there that offers anything like it.
Maybe I'm missing a critical video, but all I see are people shooting each other. That makes it a shooter like all the others. Where's the niche?
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:46:00 -
[63]
Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Katrina Cortez Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
If Dust has a meaningful impact on Eve and 2 occurs, then it will spread it's necrosis to all the areas of Eve it touches.
If the Eve PI mechanics are based around the idea that Dust players are going to be capturing/destroying infrastructure, and nobody's playing Dust, it's going to have a harmful effect on everything that requires PI mats.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Katrina Cortez Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
If Dust has a meaningful impact on Eve and 2 occurs, then it will spread it's necrosis to all the areas of Eve it touches.
If the Eve PI mechanics are based around the idea that Dust players are going to be capturing/destroying infrastructure, and nobody's playing Dust, it's going to have a harmful effect on everything that requires PI mats.
No matter how it is changed there is nothing PI could do to get worse.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:25:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Katrina Cortez Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
If Dust has a meaningful impact on Eve and 2 occurs, then it will spread it's necrosis to all the areas of Eve it touches.
If the Eve PI mechanics are based around the idea that Dust players are going to be capturing/destroying infrastructure, and nobody's playing Dust, it's going to have a harmful effect on everything that requires PI mats.
You make an awful lot of assumptions based on nothing.
I'm not aware of anything indicating that if a game company comes out with an unsucessful game it inevitably kills their sucessful game(s).
Neither PI, nor EVE in general, is dependent on DUST doing well. Yes, they are interlinked. No, that does not mean they are non-functional without their counter-part. Just because forum trolls spout that nonsense all the time doesn't mean you should take it as fact.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Ridley Tree
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:27:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Ridley Tree on 06/06/2011 21:33:33
Originally by: MotherMoon google is your friend mate. I'm sorry but it's a fact. While it is only the 1st month of sales other fps games have the same trend.
Its a Fact that NPD can only report on 170k copies sold in the first month. It is also a fact according to the NPD that PCs sell far more digital copies than retail copies. It is also a fact according to the NPD that at the time of Modern Warfare 2's release the NPD had virtually no reporting of digital sales for specific games and though they are presently trying to improve their reporting of digital sales they still do a very poor job of it and do not account for Steam sales at all.
It is a fact that the PC retail sales of Modern Warfare 2 was 170k units in the first month and that this sales figure is some unknown percentage of total sales of Modern Warfare 2 and that that unknown percentage is south of 50% of total sales of Modern Warfare 2 and most likely to be far south of 50%. A conservative estimate would suppose that Modern Warfare 2 sold between 400k and 500k units on the PC in its first month.
Now, what was that you were saying about your facts?
As to the topic. Of course Dust needs to be a console game and it is certainly possible for it to succeed. Sales figures on the PC may be larger than the NPD can report accurately but that does not change that console sales dwarf PC sales and it simply makes sense to expose it to that larger market. If Dust is well executed with solid combat and has a persistent universe of its own with its own meaningful interactions and also contains ties into EVE's persistent universe with some level of meaningful interaction then it will likely be a niche success, which is all it needs to be. _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:32:00 -
[68]
I agree CCP has already stated that Dust will influence Eve and vice versa and that a failure of one will not affect the other. Interaction is what they were referring too. Real world finances are a different story. What I am saying is that if they lose money then that will be money that could have been spent developing Eve.
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Ridley Tree
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:36:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Katrina Cortez I agree CCP has already stated that Dust will influence Eve and vice versa and that a failure of one will not affect the other. Interaction is what they were referring too. Real world finances are a different story. What I am saying is that if they lose money then that will be money that could have been spent developing Eve.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. CCP is a company that is looking to develop additional products and incomes. The employees of CCP should not be content to see their source of livelihood end when EVE's servers finally wind down. You are paying a company for a product. You're not paying them to spend their lives on this one game and one game alone. _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Maybe I'm missing a critical video, but all I see are people shooting each other. That makes it a shooter like all the others. Where's the niche?
It's an MMO shooter.
You will have a name and a ranking system based on your performance in team-based environments.
In addition to this, you can band together with other players to create a 'clan' and the performance of these clans will be rewarded by the EVE Online playerbase, who will seek to hire the best clan in the game.
This will lead to clan rivalry, as all of the clans will be competing to be the best as those at the top will become the richest clans, able to buy weapons and 'stuffz' for their planetary takedowns.
As your frags and stats will for once actually mean something, we will be able to politically and psychologically screw with the Dust playerbase and accordingly to the recent FF video, nuke the Dust players from orbit. Just for lols.
It's gonna fnckin' pwn
AK
EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
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Selinate
Amarr Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:42:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Selinate on 06/06/2011 21:42:05 I always love how people manage to speculate on a game with details about the mechanics that are so incredibly sparse.
No, Dust 514 is not doomed because it's on consoles only. No, you can't apply the same old FPS shelf life and timeline rules to an MMOFPS that you know essentially nothing about. Will it be successful? WHO THE **** KNOWS, THE FIRST SET OF CONCRETE DETAILS ISN'T GOING TO EVEN BE OUT FOR ANOTHER 2 HOURS.
Jesus Christ.... |
Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ranger 1
You make an awful lot of assumptions based on nothing.
I'm not aware of anything indicating that if a game company comes out with an unsucessful game it inevitably kills their sucessful game(s).
Neither PI, nor EVE in general, is dependent on DUST doing well. Yes, they are interlinked. No, that does not mean they are non-functional without their counter-part. Just because forum trolls spout that nonsense all the time doesn't mean you should take it as fact.
Jesus tapdancing Christ, people. Stop blowing what I say way out of proportion. Having a "negative impact on Eve" does not mean "LOL EVE IS DEAD!1"
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Mister Smithington Maybe I'm missing a critical video, but all I see are people shooting each other. That makes it a shooter like all the others. Where's the niche?
It's an MMO shooter.
You will have a name and a ranking system based on your performance in team-based environments.
In addition to this, you can band together with other players to create a 'clan' and the performance of these clans will be rewarded by the EVE Online playerbase, who will seek to hire the best clan in the game.
This will lead to clan rivalry, as all of the clans will be competing to be the best as those at the top will become the richest clans, able to buy weapons and 'stuffz' for their planetary takedowns.
As your frags and stats will for once actually mean something, we will be able to politically and psychologically screw with the Dust playerbase and accordingly to the recent FF video, nuke the Dust players from orbit. Just for lols.
It's gonna fnckin' pwn
AK
Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed. |
Ridley Tree
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Zash Elliyad Broader markets lol. Dust 514 won't sell for crap on consoles, especially with BF3 and MW3 coming.
BF X and MW X and Major Franchise X,Y,Z is coming. Every year. And Every year after that. Yet somehow new franchises come into existence and old ones die. Funny how that works. One would think the gaming industry is in a state of flux where new ideas and old ideas change places, where tastes change and where a MMORPGFPS ( **** yeah, give me some more TLAs ) is actually a different game with a different target audience than your standard FPS. Hell people who buy BF3 also buy MW3 and you know what, people who buy BF3 and MW3 might just also buy Dust. People who play Dust may just play other games on the side. **** they might even by like EVE players who play other games and even other MMOs.
Quote: That's my whole point. They're sentencing their own game to death. If they focus PC development, a lot of EVE players will play Dust 514. Stop blindly defending CCP.
Your whole point is that EVE gamers will play a second game and that Console gamers will not? You sure that's your point? Cause it seems like a stupid one. _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Maybe I'm missing a critical video, but all I see are people shooting each other. That makes it a shooter like all the others. Where's the niche?
So you're saying that EVE is just like Xenon 2, I take it? It's just spaceships shooting at each otherà
Quote: Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed.
Yes, it has already been done. It's called Planetside. It was released at the same time as EVE. Guess what? It pwned! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ridley Tree
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:57:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed.
You realize that Global Agenda is a PC game right? _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
Selinate
Amarr Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:01:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Selinate on 06/06/2011 22:00:55
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Quote: Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed.
Yes, it has already been done. It's called Planetside. It was released at the same time as EVE. Guess what? It pwned!
Until it failed, that is.
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Ridley Tree
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:04:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 06/06/2011 22:00:55
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Quote: Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed.
Yes, it has already been done. It's called Planetside. It was released at the same time as EVE. Guess what? It pwned!
Until it failed, that is.
I know not of what you speak. Server still up and they're working a sequel. _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:05:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 06/06/2011 22:00:55
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Quote: Wow, that's pretty cool. Too bad that's already been done. It's called Global Agenda. It was released a couple years ago. Guess what? It failed.
Yes, it has already been done. It's called Planetside. It was released at the same time as EVE. Guess what? It pwned!
Until it failed, that is.
right and eve would of failed to if it wasn't for the way CCP handles their mmo products.
It's just a matter of fact that CCP is the only company that completely remodeled everything in the game. Applying new textures and saying "It's DX10!" doesn't count.
I mean it, even if eve changes for the worse or best, it changes. it changes a lot. The fact is that eve can show game play and look just as good as any brand new game at E3. Don't be surprised in 5 years when ccp replace all of the graphics in Dust514.
If eve still looked and played like it did back in 2002 it would not be as successful as it is now. As the 2nd most popular western subscription based mmo.
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Selinate
Amarr Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:08:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ridley Tree
I know not of what you speak. Server still up and they're working a sequel.
I played planetside for a long, long time. It didn't completely fail, but after they came out with BFR's the population went into a fairly steady decline. I quit logging in a little while after BFR's came out, cancelled my subscription, resubbed maybe 4 months later, and the battles were pitiful compared to what they were when I played it. It basically was dead compared to what it was in it's glory days.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:13:00 -
[80]
There's a difference between buying the box and playing the game.
Disclaimer: I am more concerned Eve benefiting (or at least not suffering) from Dust's lauch than I am with CCP being financially successful.
Let me repeat myself. If Dust interacts with Eve in a MEANINGFUL way, we Eve players need a pool of active dust players.
If it doesn't interact meaningfully, **** it. Who cares?
Yes, console players buy multiple shooters, but they usually find one they prefer and play it over the others. 2 million box sales may be a financial windfall for CCP, but it doesn't mean anything to us Eve players if nobody's playing it 6 months after launch.
I am not ****ting on Dust. It looks like a fun game. But the people who already respect the IP and the implications Dust will have are running on unsupported hardware. CCP can release Dust on any console they want as far as I care. But why ignore their existing customer base? Give us a PC version too.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:13:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Ridley Tree
I know not of what you speak. Server still up and they're working a sequel.
I played planetside for a long, long time. It didn't completely fail, but after they came out with BFR's the population went into a fairly steady decline. I quit logging in a little while after BFR's came out, cancelled my subscription, resubbed maybe 4 months later, and the battles were pitiful compared to what they were when I played it. It basically was dead compared to what it was in it's glory days.
See that's the thing. If eve can get kick ass PI, then dust will always have great battles and not die. If it's pointless for the players in eve, it'll be even worse for the players in DUST.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:14:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Tippia on 06/06/2011 22:15:07
Originally by: MotherMoon right and eve would of failed to if it wasn't for the way CCP handles their mmo products.
àand thus we have come to the heart of the matter, which is this:
Originally by: Selinate I played planetside for a long, long time. It didn't completely fail, but after they came out with BFR's the population went into a fairly steady decline.
Planetside didn't fail, as such. It got SOE:d because SOE always approached it with the attitude of "waah! it's not making a bazillion bucks and we cannot use our EQ/SWG tactics to make it huuuuge!" ù the entire company was incapable of handling a niche (both technical and gameplay-wise) at a genetic level.
The reason EVE hasn't failed so far is because CCP can handle niche. In fact, that's what they do best. I have a sneaking suspicion that if they ever got their hands on a mass-market megahit, they'd belly-flop so hard they'd catch fireà
Dust has the potential to be another niche game ù playing to CCP's strengths, rather than competing with all the other mass-market cookie-cutter garbageà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ridley Tree
You realize that Global Agenda is a PC game right? Going Free to Play ( after purchase of a full copy ) does not make a game a failure.
I'm well aware, in fact, I have an account. It's actually fully free to play now, you just get better loot if you pay :/
Population is low, patches and content updates are few and far between. Queue times are not unbearable, but you see the same people in every match. Although I will say, City trolls best trolls.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Smithington Maybe I'm missing a critical video, but all I see are people shooting each other. That makes it a shooter like all the others. Where's the niche?
So you're saying that EVE is just like Xenon 2, I take it? It's just spaceships shooting at each otherà
It was an honest question. I'm watching the trailers and I don't see any content or mechanics that would qualify it as a niche game. I may be missing something, feel free to link it.
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Selinate
Amarr Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:43:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mister Smithington It was an honest question. I'm watching the trailers and I don't see any content or mechanics that would qualify it as a niche game. I may be missing something, feel free to link it.
There isn't anything to miss yet since hardly any concrete information at all has come out yet. The only thing we know for sure? Dust 514 is an MMOFPS. Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING, that CCP has said at some point in the past is subject to change.
Just look at Eve. How many things have they said they were going to do and then it ended up changing?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:50:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Tippia on 06/06/2011 22:51:20
Originally by: Mister Smithington It was an honest question. I'm watching the trailers and I don't see any content or mechanics that would qualify it as a niche game. I may be missing something, feel free to link it.
Watch the actual presentation of the game from FF2009 rather than the trailersà
Granted, none of that can be taken at face value since we don't have the PI backbone to support it yet. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Kezbet
Tu Stultus Es
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Posted - 2011.06.06 23:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Katrina Cortez Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
You forgot the step where DUST starts out slow so they royally screw up Eve to somehow make Dust more attractive to the console kiddies.
Also, there is zero chance of DUST being a success. Anybody who doesn't see this is either a moron or just trolling.
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Hermann Fegelein
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.06 23:37:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kezbet
Originally by: Katrina Cortez Ultimately it boils down to this: 1) Dust is a success and they make lots of cash = win 2) Dust is a failure and they make money = win 3) Dust is a failure and they lose money = lose
If its 3 then it is going to hurt EVE.
You forgot the step where DUST starts out slow so they royally screw up Eve to somehow make Dust more attractive to the console kiddies.
Also, there is zero chance of DUST being a success. Anybody who doesn't see this is either a moron or just trolling.
1
You must clearly know why there is no chance. Please tell us, you must be an undercover CCP worker. What exactly about the game destines it for failure?
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Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN! |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.07 00:36:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Zash Elliyad why is it being focused for consoles?
Because all they had to do was buy the engine and make some models.
It's a cheap cash grab which has gone bad and is dragging CCP under.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.07 01:16:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Hermann Fegelein What exactly about the game destines it for failure?
Ps3 exclusive. That's the damning flaw.
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Kezbet
Tu Stultus Es
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Posted - 2011.06.07 01:33:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Kezbet on 07/06/2011 01:34:59
Originally by: Hermann Fegelein You must clearly know why there is no chance. Please tell us, you must be an undercover CCP worker. What exactly about the game destines it for failure?
I'm assuming you're just trolling but I'll tell you anyway. They are trying to tie a niche PC game and a console platform together. I have seen very, very few people currently playing Eve asking for Dust and the brainless masses playing console games flit from game to game based on whatever the new big-franchise release is. Console gamers don't care about Eve and having them forced upon us when we didn't ask for them is just asking for trouble. Even if initial sales are decent console games don't have a long life and when Dust players start dwindling CCP will start screwing with Eve to make Dust seem more attractive. It will become a spiral of bad decision-making leading to the inevitable death of Dust. The *only* unknown is how badly Eve will suffer before they put Dust out of its misery.
Just look at all the pieces: Eve and its players, console tards, and CCP. There is absolutely no way Dust will be a success.
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