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Adnvari Nehal
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:39:00 -
[31]
CCP said originally they would not bring it to pc because EVE is on pc, it was a way for console gamers to experience the EVE universe. Marketing in other terms.
That said, I own a PS3 and I will not be buying Dust 514. Simply because the Xbox has a better network infrastructure (Nevermind security). And a much better track record for persistent worlds (see Chromehounds for an example)
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Jefferson H Clay
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tippia You're not the target demographic.
The PC gamer is not CCP's biggest market ù it's their only market, and they're trying to change that and diversify for the futureà
Good point and an acceptable argument. I'd have thought iPad and the other tablets would have been a natural place to go. In it's years of being on the market, the PS3 only has 50 million units in the wild as of 31 March 2011 respectable yes but there is expected to be 100 million activated iPhone 4's by Q4 2011 and Apple are shifting (by their own fiscal reports) around 7.3 million iPads a quater, so 20 million iPad 2's give or take.
Less capabilities sure, but even just aiming for iOS gives you double or tripple the potential customers for your product than going to PS3 does. It seems, considering how grunty Tegra2 and similar GPU's odd are to have not gone tablet if you're looking to diversify from the PC.
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Jefferson H Clay
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mystic5hadow I own a PS3. I will probably rent DUST 514, if anything.
This I forsee as being a problem. In the land of PC there is no such thing as rental. But it's exceptionally common for console gamers to rent their games from various places. How is an MMO going to work on a console where rentals happen? I'm not up on consoles but I understand you still need the disc in the drive as proof you 'own' the game even if it's allowed you to install it to the HDD?
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Adnvari Nehal
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Originally by: Mystic5hadow I own a PS3. I will probably rent DUST 514, if anything.
This I forsee as being a problem. In the land of PC there is no such thing as rental. But it's exceptionally common for console gamers to rent their games from various places. How is an MMO going to work on a console where rentals happen? I'm not up on consoles but I understand you still need the disc in the drive as proof you 'own' the game even if it's allowed you to install it to the HDD?
You can install the game on an xbox, only some games can install on ps3. I don't know about PS3 but xbox requires the disc to be in the drive to play even when installed
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Mister Smithington But why abandon the one you already have in the process?
Good question....
No, it's a pretty bad question since it presumes something that isn't actually true.
Tippia, DIAF. Since "abandon" is the word you take offense to, let me rephrase. Why wouldn't they also offer their new product to the market they currently have.
This game is being released under the IP we are currently paying for. We care about it, we understand its relevance. Not giving us the chance to pay for expanded content without also purchasing a new piece of hardware is just dumb business.
I know you don't think I meant CCP is giving up on Eve, quit making it out like I was.
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Adnvari Nehal
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Posted - 2011.06.07 02:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Mister Smithington But why abandon the one you already have in the process?
Good question....
No, it's a pretty bad question since it presumes something that isn't actually true.
Tippia, DIAF. Since "abandon" is the word you take offense to, let me rephrase. Why wouldn't they also offer their new product to the market they currently have.
This game is being released under the IP we are currently paying for. We care about it, we understand its relevance. Not giving us the chance to pay for expanded content without also purchasing a new piece of hardware is just dumb business.
I know you don't think I meant CCP is giving up on Eve, quit making it out like I was.
See my post above, they said that the moment dust was announced.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:03:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mister Smithington Tippia, DIAF.
No. How about you stop overreacting instead?
Quote: Why wouldn't they also offer their new product to the market they currently have.
Because it's not worth the effort? Because they already have that market and don't want to cannibalise it? Because it doesn't diversify anything? Because it's not as fun? Because they already have that marketà
Quote: I know you don't think I meant CCP is giving up on Eve, quit making it out like I was.
Sure. If you stop saying that they will. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tippia
Because it doesn't diversify anything? Because it's not as fun? Because they already have that marketà
Those are pretty ******ed reasons. Diversifying for the sake of diversifying when it's obvious that diversification is worse than not diversifying is just plain stupid.
Fun? Sure I suppose in the same way podding yourself with 1bil implants is fun.
Saying that releasing DUST514 on PC is "cannibalizing" their own market is as back-buttwards as saying the same for any expansion. When they released FW, Sov, PI, and now Incarna... every expansion that brings a new style of play will inevitably attract some players from "core" EVE (I dare you to define that). And that would be no different if they just released DUST514 as an expansion to EVE. One day you might do a little trading, the next some PI, and maybe you'll switch it up on Friday's pew pew-ing on a planetary installation. --------------------
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:14:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Mister Smithington on 07/06/2011 03:14:48
Originally by: Tippia Because it's not worth the effort?
The game is already designed. An extra couple hundred thousand box sales isn't worth the effort of a port? Please.
Quote: Because they already have that market and don't want to cannibalise it?
They have IP enthusiasts, not the PC shooter market. Easy. Money.
Quote: Because it doesn't diversify anything?
uh? what?
Quote: Because it's not as fun?
Would be a hell of a lot more fun for PC players, and no less fun for Ps3.
Quote: Because they already have that marketà
I guess blizzard shouldn't have bothered with Star Craft II since they already had the PC market with WoW. This is a stupid argument. You know better than that.
Quote:
Quote: I know you don't think I meant CCP is giving up on Eve, quit making it out like I was.
Sure. If you stop saying that they will.
Circular argument is circular! :D
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Phenethylamine
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:22:00 -
[40]
Obviously people playing and engaged in the eve universe shouldn't be allowed to participate in an expansion of its' features without owning a separate piece of dedicated hardware to do so.
That would be reasonable. What kind of pansy crap is being reasonable?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Diversifying for the sake of diversifying when it's obvious that diversification is worse than not diversifying is just plain stupid.
How is it obvious?
Quote: Saying that releasing DUST514 on PC is "cannibalizing" their own market is as back-buttwards as saying the same for any expansion.
Ehmà not really, no. Dust is not EVE, and expansions to EVE does not distract players away from EVE.
Quote: When they released FW, Sov, PI, and now Incarna... every expansion that brings a new style of play will inevitably attract some players from "core" EVE
Again ehmà they attract players from EVE to EVE so they're not actually cannibalising their existing market at all.
Originally by: Mister Smithington The game is already designed.
àbut a second platform still means a second client that needs to be supported, and a PC client, with all the oddities and variance in the hardware it represents, is far more difficult to support than the stable and known platform a console represents. So yes, it could quite easily not be worth the effort.
Quote: They have IP enthusiasts, not the PC shooter market.
And they want them to keep playing EVE rather than be distracted by a different game.
Quote: uh? what?
Tapping into their existing market means, by very definition, that they're not diversifying their markets.
Quote: Would be a hell of a lot more fun for PC players, and no less fun for Ps3.
No, you misunderstand: because it's not as fun for CCP.
Quote: I guess blizzard shouldn't have bothered with Star Craft II since they already had the PC market with WoW.
You're assuming that the SC market is the same as the WoW marketà
Quote: Circular argument is circular! :D
No, it's not circular. It's quid pro quo: you stop making silly assertions and I stop calling you on them. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Phenethylamine
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Phenethylamine on 07/06/2011 03:35:05 In all seriousness it's probably because they don't trust themselves to release something as complicated as an FPS engine on the PC. PC hardware varies widely, and if you don't know what you're doing when building an engine to work on it, you're going to screw the pooch so hard it coughs up its' own ovaries. Making an intensive graphics engine work on a wide variety of hardware combinations takes much more competence and experience than making one that doesn't break on a console.
Does CCP's philosophy for development pipelines and QA really suggest they're ready to tackle that challenge?
Edit: forgot to mention it but, a game in space? Nowhere near as demanding as one in detailed terrestrial environments. I just know someone is going to go "HAY BUT THEY MAEK EVE ENGINE THEY NO WUT DO MAEK ENGINE"
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:54:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Mister Smithington on 07/06/2011 03:56:07
Originally by: Tippia . . .
At this point, you've argued against your previous points, you've made claims that have no basis in sound reasoning, you've taken people out of context and twisted words.
Anyone with half a brain can see you don't have a leg to stand on here.
I've presented my point, explained my arguments and having found no legitimate opposition, I'm out.
Peace.
Edit:
Originally by: Phenethylamine Edited by: Phenethylamine on 07/06/2011 03:35:05 In all seriousness it's probably because they don't trust themselves to release something as complicated as an FPS engine on the PC. PC hardware varies widely, and if you don't know what you're doing when building an engine to work on it, you're going to screw the pooch so hard it coughs up its' own ovaries. Making an intensive graphics engine work on a wide variety of hardware combinations takes much more competence and experience than making one that doesn't break on a console.
Does CCP's philosophy for development pipelines and QA really suggest they're ready to tackle that challenge?
First solid argument I've seen thus far. Bravo sir.
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Tim Pest
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:55:00 -
[44]
I think there are some CCP alts in this thread.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Tippia You're not the target demographic.
The PC gamer is not CCP's biggest market ù it's their only market, and they're trying to change that and diversify for the futureà
That's a ****ing stupid argument. By all means, expand your market. But why abandon the one you already have in the process?
Good question....
CCP?
Last time I checked, the Eve server is still up and running. Or is this that type of "God hath forsaken me" type of abandonment were your never really abandoned you just like to whine about it alot?
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.06.07 03:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tippia How is it obvious?
Oh I don't know... that releasing on a platform of maybe 1/10th the numbers & capabilities of your native platform with a userbase that change games as often as they change their bedsheets (or get their mom to do it for them) is not obvious? Or perhaps there's some secret sauce CCP isn't telling and maybe some huge payout from Sony. Yeah, right. Occam's razor = it's obvious PS3 is a fail "diversification" for CCP.
Quote: Ehmà not really, no. Dust is not EVE, and expansions to EVE does not distract players away from EVE. they attract players from EVE to EVE so they're not actually cannibalising their existing market at all.
Uh, Yes, really. DUST is EVE and if it's not I dare you to (as I said) find a working definition of what exactly "EVE" is in a way that allows you to include other expansions but not DUST. Your argument is already dead in the water anyways in light of Incarna which is practically DUST sans guns.
Making DUST514 a PS3-exclusive makes little more sense than making Incarna a Mac-exclusive. --------------------
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George Wilkes Hill
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:00:00 -
[47]
Originally by: aria alenko
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Mister Smithington
You know full well what I mean. They've had PC gaming Eve fans waiting for years for this game only to find that they're being ignored.
They have repeatedly said for years now it won't be coming to PC, it's not like they mislead or ignored anyone. Anyone who has been "waiting for years for this game" knew it was only going to be on consoles.
Waiting for it to be on Xbox for years ;P
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tippia on 07/06/2011 04:07:03
Originally by: Mister Smithington At this point, you've argued against your previous points,
Really? What?
Quote: you've made claims that have no basis in sound reasoning,
Really? What?
Quote: you've taken people out of context and twisted words.
Really? What?
Quote: Anyone with half a brain can see you don't have a leg to stand on here.
àand yet those legs are as sturdy as ever.
Quote: I've presented my point, explained my arguments and having found no legitimate opposition, I'm out.
Fixed. Just because you don't like the fact that it's quite easy to explain and that you don't like the arguments doesn't mean they don't exist.
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Oh I don't know... that releasing on a platform of maybe 1/10th the numbers & capabilities of your native platform
Now, you do know that consoles are taking over the FPS genre, right?
Quote: Uh, Yes, really. DUST is EVE and if it's not I dare you to (as I said) find a working definition of what exactly "EVE" is
It is not an FPS, to begin with, whereas Dust is. It is also a PC game, unlike Dust. They're two different games. They exist in the same universe, but that does not make them the same game, much like how, say, Abe's Oddysee is not the same game as Stranger's Wrath.
Quote: Your argument is already dead in the water anyways in light of Incarna which is practically DUST sans guns.
In other words, it's nothing like Dust. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:03:00 -
[49]
Don't own a PS3 (or 360), will not be buying either for Dust. Thanks CCP for wasting my subscription/plex money that I paid so you can improve Eve, on a game that I can't play. I probably would have bought it if it was on PC, along with like half of the rest of Eve. As it is you sold out for the supposedly greater console population who more than likely won't touch it as they'll be too busy playing BF3 and COD4.
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tippia Now, you do know that consoles are taking over the FPS genre, right?
You do realize DUST514 wasn't a generic CoD clone produced in half a year and will gross 1 million sales in 1 month right? Realize that CCP failed the "FPS on console" formula. If they wanted to do that, DUST514 would have been out 3 years ago and had 3 sequels already. Too late. It quite clearly isn't going to be a profit-making game for CCP like CoD is for IW, and thus we conclude the diversification has failed. If you can find numbers to say otherwise prove it, but any sane person here knows the ballpark figure for what CCP has spent on DUST and what they could possibly even hope to earn back on the best of non-hacked PS3 days doesn't even bring them at par.
Quote: In other words, it's nothing like Dust.
In other words you failed to meet the challenge and provide a definition of what EVE is in a way that says Incarna is EVE, but DUST is not, thus you forfeit that DUST is by default a part of EVE just like Incarna. Incarna is not DUST, but Incarna is an expansion just like DUST, and making an expansion exclusive to a platform simply because you're trying to stick to a failed "diversification" plan is just plain bad business and disrespect to the customers who made your IP take off in the first place. --------------------
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Escaa
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:30:00 -
[51]
I believe there is a big issue a lot of people have overlooked or not even thought of.
They want Dust to tie into Eve and have some kind of influence in Eve. The problem is, console gamers in general tend to move to the next "big game" very quickly and the vast majority of their multiplayer games communities are ghost towns or close to it.
Dust needs legs to have an actual life outside of its first few months. Not releasing it for the PC is just flawed for this reason alone. PC community for games (as long as they are good) are much much more healthier for games as they age.
On a console, soon as the next big game hits the previous games online nearly dies. There are very few online console games that are an exception to that.
I have a PS3, so I'll be playing Dust, but I would much much much more prefer to play it on my PC as that is my primary gaming preference.
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Hidden Voice
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:31:00 -
[52]
I don't think I would have been as disappointed with this whole thing if I owned a PS3. I already own an Xbox, and I can't see myself dropping $300 on a system that has no games I'm interested in, besides Dust 514. I hate to sound like I'm hating on console players, but I simply don't see Dust staying well populated a few months down the line. Personally, I'll play one console game for a while before moving on to the next one, and usually I don't return to it except for a few play sessions here and there. Once the next big FPS comes out after Dust, I imagine that a lot of people will move on.
I can totally see that Microsoft's whole setup could get in the way, but there's really no reason that it shouldn't be on PC. It's fine that CCP wants to expand into the console realm, but I fail to see how making it also available on PC will prevent that. All it could really do is increase the number of players.
In truth I see Dust either fading into irrelevance a few months after launch when there are only a few players left, or it will be ported to the PC in the way that other former console exclusives have eventually ended up on multiple platforms.
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Phenethylamine
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Posted - 2011.06.07 05:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Except they didn't build an Engine. They're using a modified UE3 engine which actually is ridiculously optimized for PC hardware and actually requires more work to port to a console. This isn't a case of engine-shyness: PC fans would buy DUST in any state in thousands of more copies than PS3 fans in even the best state.
Well to use an example Bethesda didn't create the Gamebryo engine they just licensed and modified it, yet other companies who have worked with it can attest that what Bethesda managed to do to that poor engine in terms of stability and general problems was not at all representative of what they had initially licensed. Even modifying an existing engine has some of these pitfalls (though you're right the Unreal 3 engine is a great piece of work)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.07 05:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai You do realize DUST514 wasn't a generic CoD clone produced in half a year and will gross 1 million sales in 1 month right?
This is a good thing.
Quote: Realize that CCP failed the "FPS on console" formula.
àand so is this. It's the only chance they have to make it stick.
Quote: In other words you failed to meet the challenge and provide a definition of what EVE is in a way that says Incarna is EVE, but DUST is not
Incorrect. But nice try moving to goalposts and misquoting the statement.
Dust is an FPS. EVE is not. The two are not the same game. Incarna is EVE capsuleers doing EVE activities with their EVE stuff. Incarna is an expansion a UI skin for EVE. Dust is none of those, because it's not the same game.
But since you insist: how is Dust an expansion to EVE?
Hint: the connection you should be going after is PI, because that's where it becomes a tiiiiny bit fuzzyà well, not really. But far closer than Incarna. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
theocratis
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Posted - 2011.06.07 05:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Natalia Kovac Don't own a PS3 (or 360), will not be buying either for Dust. Thanks CCP for wasting my subscription/plex money that I paid so you can improve Eve, on a game that I can't play. I probably would have bought it if it was on PC, along with like half of the rest of Eve. As it is you sold out for the supposedly greater console population who more than likely won't touch it as they'll be too busy playing BF3 and COD4.
Shanghai is not Iceland. Also NEWSFLASH: an mmo subscription pays for a service. that service is letting you log into their creation. Once you have paid your subscription, it is their money. not yours. They will use their money how they see fit. It is up to you whether or not you use your subscription service and log in.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.07 06:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Escaa I believe there is a big issue a lot of people have overlooked or not even thought of.
They want Dust to tie into Eve and have some kind of influence in Eve. The problem is, console gamers in general tend to move to the next "big game" very quickly and the vast majority of their multiplayer games communities are ghost towns or close to it. *snap*
No, you're not the first to bring this up. It's practically all the wussies have at the moment to chew on..
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Grey Wind
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Posted - 2011.06.07 06:04:00 -
[57]
All I know is I am now severely dissapointed. I have been excited about Dust and from some digging had seen past announcements had hinted that Xbox would be a platform for Dust. So when a few months back as a birthday gift my folks and siblings called me up and said there were planning to buy me a gaming system as a group gift, I told them I wanted the Xbox, thinking I would be able to use it when Dust came out(Don't game on consoles too much, though I do love me some Fable 3 and Halo!). Unfortunately now I am out in the cold with no Dust. Cuz I don't know bout everyone else, but I ain't gonna spend another several hundred bucks just so I can play one game.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.06.07 06:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
You do realize DUST514 wasn't a generic CoD clone produced in half a year and will gross 1 million sales in 1 month right?
The CoD titles take longer than 6 months to do, that's why they alternate studios for each release so they can keep them coming out every year.
Quote: It quite clearly isn't going to be a profit-making game for CCP like CoD is for IW, and thus we conclude the diversification has failed.
If CCP said "we can't compete with the other MMOs out there" we wouldn't be playing EVE now would we? And IW isn't the one making the money off CoD, Activision is taking home the bacon on the whole series, besides IW doesn't exist anymore, because they got mad about Activision taking all the money :P - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Shardivh
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Posted - 2011.06.07 06:47:00 -
[59]
Dont have a PS3. Wont buy one. PS3 will be replaced by something new within a few years, removing any longevity of DUST as a game. CCP want to appeal to people least likely to play EVE. The thinking was "Who is least likely to play our game or use our services?" "Console FPS fans!" They have gone too far with this though, confining themselves to one group of their target audience. DUST will either be ported to PC or be dead within a year of release.
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trader tom Bererund
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Posted - 2011.06.07 07:09:00 -
[60]
I have only one thing to say my fellow eve pilots. GIVE CCP A MESSAGE THEY WON'T SOON FORGET!!! remember guys the planet belongs to the 12 year olds. But in space, that belongs to us!!! i was on the page for the ps3 video and i noticed something. the dev that was answering the questions did not answer a single question that was raised about why it is not being a multi-console game nor answered a single eve player's question. nice ccp to totally insult your true customer base. i will even bet that ccp will protect the snot nose little 12 year olds by saying piracy or deliberate bombing of planets will not be allowed unless you are actively participating in the fight. on the planet maybe but in eve space, THAT BELONGS TO US PILOTS! I SAY LETS PUT CCP ON NOTICE! we will destroy any and all ships participating in the dust514 gameplay. to put it short, we show the little snots what being an eve pilot really is. "there are no rewards without the risk" time to put those words to the test and see if ccp will honor those words. what about it dev? care to answer or reply to it? mark my words pilots. we will be forgotten in all this. this will become like wow real quick. its already starting. take away the learning skills. Make missioning easier. look at the total nurfing of null. mark my words this game will become a wow clone. so what about it dev? make an honest effort to ease us pilots. you will end up sharing ALL of our information with sony. you will have no choice. i for one along with prob 50k other pilots will leave this game. you have no answers for that one cause you know it will happen. you have no answers for any of this cause you know i'm right. answer this if you dare.
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