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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.10 10:02:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon That would also stop the AFK cloakers all around Eve.
there is no good reason for that, the rest of your posting is obsolete.
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Carrelle Rouppon
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:54:00 -
[62]
I've got nothing again cloaking to scare the locals. Keep it up.
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Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.06.12 11:01:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sevena Black I don't mind cloaking. I even don't mind cloaking in sanctums. I DO mind the lack of skill involved tho. I have a suggestion:
Current situation: Cloaking is on or off
Possible remedy: Cloaking module is an active module. It runs for 300 sec (5 min) and then has a 30 sec cooldown.
If someone is actually playing, he can still "claim" your sanctum by reactivating his cloak. You do have a very small window of grabbing him tho. This also allows the normal sneaking since you don't need alot of time zipping through systems and even 30 sec of jumping safespots will prevent from being grabbed in hostile space before reactivating cloak.
No. If the game was only about sanctums, this idea would be less stupid. However, as a devout wormhole dweller, this idea would mess up the game for us.
Remember, the game is more than just your crappy sanctums.
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Roosterton
The 57th Overlanders
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Posted - 2011.06.12 14:21:00 -
[64]
The solution is flabbergastingly simple.
A) Make it an exploit or B) Make cloaked ships not affect the sanctum/anomaly spawn rate
Don't change the mechanics of the cloak itself, those are fine, AFK cloaking in general is fine. It's just this one mechanic that gets to me. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.12 15:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Roosterton The solution is flabbergastingly simple.
A) Cry.
b) Go do something else, there was a time not so long ago that sanctums didn't exist.
~~~
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BrokenBC
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Posted - 2011.06.12 22:04:00 -
[66]
Honestly while it dose suck when you need to get your grind on, Its a valid tactic.Having said that I think all cloaking ships should have to reactivate their cloak after two hours of being cloaked.this would preserve the tactic while insuring that players were actually there and not sleeping or at work. on the Bright side I don't mind seeing the bears that cant find time to fleet up and fight get dropped.Perhaps if they spent less time crying and more time roaming neut's/red's wouldn't have as much time to camp.
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Roosterton
Psychotic Delusions Enemy-Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:06:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Roosterton on 13/06/2011 04:10:31
Originally by: BrokenBC Honestly while it dose suck when you need to get your grind on, Its a valid tactic.Having said that I think all cloaking ships should have to reactivate their cloak after two hours of being cloaked.this would preserve the tactic while insuring that players were actually there and not sleeping or at work. on the Bright side I don't mind seeing the bears that cant find time to fleet up and fight get dropped.Perhaps if they spent less time crying and more time roaming neut's/red's wouldn't have as much time to camp.
No, that is a bad idea, as it ruins the tactic of AFK cloaking for paranoia purposes and not sanctum-stopping purposes.
AFK cloaking in a sanctum precisely to stop it from spawning is, as it is, completely ****ed. They're completely stopping the victims from making any income from them, and there's no realistic way to force them out.
AFK cloaking for local purposes is completely different, as you're not actually stopping your targets from doing anything, and it's up to them whether to care or not.
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Roosterton The solution is flabbergastingly simple.
A) Cry.
b) Go do something else, there was a time not so long ago that sanctums didn't exist.
While I don't really give a damn about 90% of PVE activities and I generally agree with this, the fact remains that it's a bad game mechanic, whether or whether not I appreciate the CA-grinding profession. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Carrelle Rouppon
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Posted - 2011.06.13 08:43:00 -
[68]
I'm glad to see that some people have taken the time to think about this issue, and not just attempt to troll "carebears".
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Bucky O'Hair
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.06.13 12:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon You're completely off topic.
Yes, the topic being:
Dear CCP someone found a way to stop my bots from farming santums. This is unfair, how am I supposed to make my billions of isk for RMT?
Please make the bad men go away....
Signed Mr Bot
Did I get that right??
We are the Ushra'Khan, we come for our people.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2011.06.13 14:34:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Dracvlad on 13/06/2011 14:38:06 This, at one point it was an exploit, but as they kept doing it and it was too much hassle for CCP to deal with they stopped classifying it as an exploit.
I for one having been on the receiving end of this would like CCP to respawn the Sanctum or Haven 60 minutes after the last rat was destroyed. As for AFK SB fun used as a weapon to make people think twice on Sanctums I have no issue with that, one SB I would do Sanctums in my Raven, had great fun when a SB went for me and he warped out twice and I continued doing the Sanctum, 2 SB's was more of an issue, so we grouped, we also set baits and then the AFL cloakers just stopped the Sanctums and Havens from respawning.
Originally by: Roosterton The solution is flabbergastingly simple.
A) Make it an exploit or B) Make cloaked ships not affect the sanctum/anomaly spawn rate
Don't change the mechanics of the cloak itself, those are fine, AFK cloaking in general is fine. It's just this one mechanic that gets to me.
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Roosterton
Psychotic Delusions Enemy-Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.13 14:47:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Roosterton on 13/06/2011 14:58:44 Edited by: Roosterton on 13/06/2011 14:51:24
Originally by: Bucky O'Hair
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon You're completely off topic.
Yes, the topic being:
Dear CCP someone found a way to stop my bots from farming santums. This is unfair, how am I supposed to make my billions of isk for RMT?
Please make the bad men go away....
Signed Mr Bot
Did I get that right??
In case you didn't realize, a stealth bomber being cloaked in a system would stop bots from farming sanctums whether or not it was physically stopping the sanctums from spawning. The only thing this specific mechanic is harming, is actual players.
It's kinda like this: Carebears: Waah, somebody is cloaked in my system, I can't do anything because they might gank me! You: LOL grow some balls if you know they're AFK LOL pansy for not doing anything because he's in your system. (Intelligent) Carebears: OK, we did that. (Intelligent) Carebears: Damnit, now they're sitting inside our CA's, what can we do? You: LOL grow some... oh wait, this thread isn't about that... I'LL JUST SAY STUPID THINGS HERE ANYWAY.
Originally by: Dracvlad As for AFK SB fun used as a weapon to make people think twice on Sanctums I have no issue with that, one SB I would do Sanctums in my Raven, had great fun when a SB went for me and he warped out twice and I continued doing the Sanctum, 2 SB's was more of an issue, so we grouped, we also set baits and then the AFL cloakers just stopped the Sanctums and Havens from respawning.
Indeed, that was very fun.
A 60min timer wouldn't be bad, but being able to stop them for entire days is just silly. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:12:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon To my surprise it is not considered an exploit to AFK cloak in anomalies 24/7. It's entirely unfair, there is no way to counter this, which is very odd. We're playing Eve after all.
If you're going to be working for a few days, just log in your three accounts and cripple an entire system for a few days with no risk to yourself.
Am I the only that thinks this is madness?
Why exactly is it an exploit? Is that Sanctum yours? Stick a Cyno-Jammer in system, Use a bait ship and when he pops up kill him, not hard to do is it?
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:52:00 -
[73]
You are obviously unable to read, we did all that, so they just waited until we did the first Sanctum after DT then sat in that and the second Sanctum and the two Havens for good measure until the next DT. Some of us went up and down the Sanctums in Dramiels to try to uncloak them, but talk about a needle in a haystack.
And yes the Sanctum was ours, we paid SOV and had it to level 5, I am no longer in 0.0 but I had great fun baiting SB's and setting traps for them. But you cannot do anything against the stop spawning AFK cloaking.
Originally by: Signal11th
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon To my surprise it is not considered an exploit to AFK cloak in anomalies 24/7. It's entirely unfair, there is no way to counter this, which is very odd. We're playing Eve after all.
If you're going to be working for a few days, just log in your three accounts and cripple an entire system for a few days with no risk to yourself.
Am I the only that thinks this is madness?
Why exactly is it an exploit? Is that Sanctum yours? Stick a Cyno-Jammer in system, Use a bait ship and when he pops up kill him, not hard to do is it?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Dracvlad And yes the Sanctum was ours, we paid SOV and had it to level 5
that doesnt make anything yours. It is not your space, not your sanctum and not your belt. You just allowed to do certain things in the space you "claim", however it does not become yours.
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Darcy D'Spledide
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Posted - 2011.06.13 19:21:00 -
[75]
I understand that sanctum-bunnies have a lot invested in this. But all you're doing is dragging out the debate of the bleeding obvious.
You are in 0.0 as part of an alliance. Some of your money comes from sanctums. Some other alliances have you set as neutral, or red, or are actively at war with you. You will spend the money from sanctums on ships to kill these people.
A cloak-nerf to secure your systems wouldn't make the game any fairer. It's already fair - if they're cloaking in your systems, cloak in theirs.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:38:00 -
[76]
And you and the poster above are chosing to ignore the obvious, the simple fact is that it is a broken mechanic we had toons in our systems that were in condors with cloaks that were there just for preventing the Sanctums and Havens from respawning. THEY COULD NOT STOP US FROM DOING THEM BY FIGHTING OR HOT DROPPING SO THEY USED A GAME MECHANIC TO PREVENT US. See I spelt it out in capitals so you can get your brain around it.
You can try all you want to divert attention away from it, but it is a broken mechanic simple as that, what makes it even worse is that initially CCP were policing this then decided it was not an exploit, well its using the game mechanic rather like putting 2,000 cans out to create lag, CCP gave up policing it.
So for me I wanted them to either police this or to adjust the game mechanics to stop it, I for one do not want a cloak nerf in any way shape or form.
Originally by: Darcy D'Spledide I understand that sanctum-bunnies have a lot invested in this. But all you're doing is dragging out the debate of the bleeding obvious.
You are in 0.0 as part of an alliance. Some of your money comes from sanctums. Some other alliances have you set as neutral, or red, or are actively at war with you. You will spend the money from sanctums on ships to kill these people.
A cloak-nerf to secure your systems wouldn't make the game any fairer. It's already fair - if they're cloaking in your systems, cloak in theirs.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:44:00 -
[77]
people use game mechanics to enemies disadvantage, how smart.
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Roosterton
Psychotic Delusions Enemy-Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.14 02:03:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Roosterton on 14/06/2011 02:03:45
Originally by: Robert Caldera people use game mechanics to enemies disadvantage, how smart.
There's a word for that.
Exploit.
But so many people were doing it that CCP un-exploited it to avoid having to respond to petitions. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
James Morgan
Caldari Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.14 06:39:00 -
[79]
Simple solution : Just add code that makes Anomalies despawn after a set time once they have been completed.
This will make the afk cloakers to actually do something to lock down the anomaly based income generation of a system.
In current scenario we have cloaky ships hanging afk on grid in anomalies in a system. They can do nothing else and still be able to shut down anomalies spawning in that system. As this course of action is relatively risk free so everyone opts for it resulting in less activity in the system. The residents can't find them and can neither bait them, so in the end they will usually end up leaving the system.
On the other hand if the anomalies were to despawn after a set time interval when they are completed. The residents would still be able to run anomalies in the system if they want to do so with cloaky hostiles in the system. Now this leads to interesting situation, will the residents risk their ships, while the cloakers can pick their targets at will or it that a bait or will their trap get hotdropped by black ops. This scenario results in much more interesting alternatives.
Now coming to the present situation, what should the residents do once their precious system's anomalies has been held hostage by few afk cloakers. You can't remove them, they are generally alts and they would be on their mains happily doing their stuff. so you can't assume that they will get bored and leave the system. The only solution for the current problem is leave that system, move to a new farming location, bubble up your farming system, maintain scouts in adjacent system, be ready to form fast gang to get those cloaky ships once they enter your system. It will require effort but that's the way it going to be for a while until it is fixed be CCP.
If you don't have other systems to rat into or you are just a small renter alliance, go back empire/lowsec/WH there is nothing you can do here. Its your fault in letting those cloakers set up a camp in your system. Go find some other avenues for isk generation.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.06.14 08:26:00 -
[80]
Damn, I hadn't thought about that. That is even more annoying than normal AFK cloakers.
----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.14 08:51:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 14/06/2011 08:59:02
sanctum blocker is probably just a stepping stone to a more dedicated afk cloaker while training for a bomber; because there is no point of having people in sanctums in your system if you're just in a T1 cloaky frigate and cant kill them anyways.
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James Morgan
Caldari Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.14 09:17:00 -
[82]
Edited by: James Morgan on 14/06/2011 09:17:59
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 14/06/2011 08:59:02
sanctum blocker is probably just a stepping stone to a more dedicated afk cloaker while training for a bomber; because there is no point of having people in sanctums in your system if you're just in a T1 cloaky frigate and cant kill them anyways.
Not necessarily, I can just quick train an alt on my 2nd account to use cloaks. Get a few people to do it and scout those alts to that -0.9 or above security system and you can shut down all isk generation from anomalies there.
For fun you can also use the T1 ewar frigate(like griffin) and make them unprobable using 2 active eccm. They are not able to warp cloaked but you can then easily make safe spots with them. Also this will make those leet pvpers waste time on scanning you down when you are not cloaked.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.14 09:22:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 14/06/2011 09:22:52
Originally by: James Morgan
Not necessarily, I can just quick train an alt on my 2nd account to use cloaks. Get a few people to do it and scout those alts to that -0.9 or above security system and you can shut down all isk generation from anomalies there.
mh, this is not somehow related to what I stated, is it? Whats your point?
Originally by: James Morgan For fun you can also use the T1 ewar frigate(like griffin) and make them unprobable using 2 active eccm. They are not able to warp cloaked but you can then easily make safe spots with them. Also this will make those leet pvpers waste time on scanning you down when you are not cloaked.
leet pvpers would just break the safespot without scanning. You never heard that? Its even not that hard, especially if the dude is afk and you have a plenty of time to do that.
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James Morgan
Caldari Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.14 09:40:00 -
[84]
Edited by: James Morgan on 14/06/2011 09:43:33 Edited by: James Morgan on 14/06/2011 09:42:24 Edited by: James Morgan on 14/06/2011 09:41:37
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 14/06/2011 09:22:52
Originally by: James Morgan
Not necessarily, I can just quick train an alt on my 2nd account to use cloaks. Get a few people to do it and scout those alts to that -0.9 or above security system and you can shut down all isk generation from anomalies there.
mh, this is not somehow related to what I stated, is it? Whats your point?
Originally by: James Morgan For fun you can also use the T1 ewar frigate(like griffin) and make them unprobable using 2 active eccm. They are not able to warp cloaked but you can then easily make safe spots with them. Also this will make those leet pvpers waste time on scanning you down when you are not cloaked.
leet pvpers would just break the safespot without scanning. You never heard that? Its even not that hard, especially if the dude is afk and you have a plenty of time to do that.
first was for what you said
Quote: sanctum blocker is probably just a stepping stone to a more dedicated afk cloaker while training for a bomber
I need not train anything else on that alt, except for it to act as a sanctum blocker. but yeah training for bomber would be the right way to go.
second, yeah my mistake, you are right going afk without cloak even unprobable ship can lead to destruction.
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Carrelle Rouppon
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Posted - 2011.06.14 11:30:00 -
[85]
I had no idea this had been considered an exploit by CCP, and only recently has become a legal tactic. How lazy of them.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:32:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Dracvlad on 14/06/2011 12:38:49 Initially our petitions were acted on, but we only petitioned when a Sanctum did not respawn, but I guess some people over used this against AFK cloakers who of course (sarc) were innocently sitting in a Sanctum and went AFK when waiting for an opportunity to attack, so they decided not to treat it as an exploit. Now I kinda understand that with SB's but when we had T1 frigates with cloaks coming in CCP did not even act on that, its pretty damn obvious that they were not there to gank... CCP if they were on the ball would have acted on those, but did not.
In terms of our approach, we had a lot of stupid carebears who lost ships willy nilly to SB's, but we set traps for them, Covert ops with points and webs so that they could be blown up by the bait ship or the covert ops. The enemy brought in a Vaga with a cloak to stop us so we set a trap and killed the Vaga, and it went on like this, that was great fun, we did CA's in groups that they could not take, the system was cyno jammed and then they started to stay in the CA. When they did that we complained and the ones that had done that disappeared from local, but then when the new lot started doing it the GM told us that it was not an exploit, it turned what had been a fun cat and mouse game into a pure annoyance, totally lame, by those that do it and CCP for being so weak.
I am not bothering with SOV 0.0 after that, its not worth it for any medium sized alliance, if your cyno jammed system can be made worthless like that and its allowed, its just so lame of CCP and the self proclaimed leet PvP'rs who do it...
Originally by: Carrelle Rouppon I had no idea this had been considered an exploit by CCP, and only recently has become a legal tactic. How lazy of them.
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Enik3
Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.06.15 15:28:00 -
[87]
I don't really PVE and have never been in a sanctum, but I do think that a game condoning a 0% risk/100% reward AFK play style makes exactly zero sense.
But hey this is CCP we're talking about and we'll have walking in stations soon, so if you don't like it, go back to EVE...I mean WOW.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.15 15:42:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Enik3 I don't really PVE and have never been in a sanctum, but I do think that a game condoning a 0% risk/100% reward AFK play style makes exactly zero sense.
yeah, let us shoot hogs^^ ehm pirate ships in belt for SP, because gaining them afk or even OFFLINE at 0% risk cant be right and makes exactly zero sense.
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Ivica Krump
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:21:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Ivica Krump on 15/06/2011 17:27:41 My defition of word carebear:
A null sec player, who ignores social aspect of game and who is trying to do everything alone. Then when he is in danger he can't face alone or he is not willing to due to his ship worth billion isk, he comes to forum and he cries all day long about unfairness of EVE life and how bad CCP is.
FFS guys, you live in null sec. Do sigs with a friend and you will have ISK and kills too. Fit one ship for pve to grab agro and tank rats and one with point and web to kill reds so stupid to cross your way.
Null sec is not lvl 4 agent system. Dont try to make one out of it.
If you have someone sitting in your sanctum, just go elsewhere. Null sec is large and most systems of your enemies are empty, full of nice anoms waiting for you.
PS: For those smart kids out there, yes I know there are pirate faction lvl 4 agents in null sec, but I hope you take the point.
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Roosterton
Psychotic Delusions Enemy-Fleet
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Posted - 2011.06.15 22:54:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Roosterton on 15/06/2011 22:54:50
Originally by: Ivica Krump Edited by: Ivica Krump on 15/06/2011 17:27:41 My defition of word carebear:
A null sec player, who ignores social aspect of game and who is trying to do everything alone. Then when he is in danger he can't face alone or he is not willing to due to his ship worth billion isk, he comes to forum and he cries all day long about unfairness of EVE life and how bad CCP is.
FFS guys, you live in null sec. Do sigs with a friend and you will have ISK and kills too. Fit one ship for pve to grab agro and tank rats and one with point and web to kill reds so stupid to cross your way.
Null sec is not lvl 4 agent system. Dont try to make one out of it.
This is not what this thread is about, at all. GTFO.
Quote: If you have someone sitting in your sanctum, just go elsewhere. Null sec is large and most systems of your enemies are empty, full of nice anoms waiting for you.
How large nullsec is doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The fact remains that it's a bad game mechanic. You can insult people and call them carebears all you want, but at the end of the day, you're just making yourself look like a whiney little idiot who doesn't understand what's going on.
Not to mention that CA's are only worth it in specific systems. Saying "GO DO THEM ELSEWHERE" makes me think you've never left highsec. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
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