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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4566
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:42:00 -
[121] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ever seen an oil tanker? Man, the armor and guns on those things! Last I checked irl oil tankers don't usually have to worry about fleets of pirates in battlecruisers with battleship sized guns blowing them up. That's because you don't need something as ridiculous as a battlecruiser (which, by definition has battleship-sized gunsGǪ that was the whole point of inventing them) to take one on. Instead, they have to worry about fleets of pirates in dinghies.
Boost Rookie ships!
(Oh wait...) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2414
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:45:00 -
[122] - Quote
luZk wrote:Malcanis wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:It does seem kind of strange that a ship capable of hauling that much cargo which aligns and warps as slowly as a freighter does would not have the ability to fit any sort of defensive modules or atleast a method to avoid being tackled. Also the fact that a ship type that didn't even exist when freighters were introduced is being used exclusively to do the ganking implies that an imbalance exists and should be corrected, after all it's only logical that when a weapon is created that gives one side an advantage over another that a counter is also created. Ever seen an oil tanker? Man, the armor and guns on those things! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M93od9fbpWMYeah?
Yes, the oil tanker hired support. What a concept.
By the way, they also did so in defiance of Maritime Law and if caught could suffer legal repercussions.
Still, it does highlight the concept that taking precautions can save you from a gank. It's just that in EVE those precautions tend to take other forms. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:51:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Yes, the oil tanker hired support. What a concept. By the way, they also did so in defiance of Maritime Law and if caught could suffer legal repercussions. Still, it does highlight the concept that taking precautions can save you from a gank. It's just that in EVE those precautions tend to take other forms.
Vice Admiral Bill Gortney, Commander of the United States General Command wrote: GÇ£Due to Maersk Alabama following maritime industryGÇÖs best-practices such as embarking security teams, the ship was able to prevent being successfully attacked by pirates. This is a great example of how merchant mariners can take pro-active action to prevent being attacked.GÇ¥
I know it's a bit of a derail, but how are private security contractors a violation of Maritime Law? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1440
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:56:00 -
[124] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tippia wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ever seen an oil tanker? Man, the armor and guns on those things! Last I checked irl oil tankers don't usually have to worry about fleets of pirates in battlecruisers with battleship sized guns blowing them up. That's because you don't need something as ridiculous as a battlecruiser (which, by definition has battleship-sized gunsGǪ that was the whole point of inventing them) to take one on. Instead, they have to worry about fleets of pirates in dinghies. Boost Rookie ships! (Oh wait...) Gankalyst. Let's do this thing Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
245
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:03:00 -
[125] - Quote
Stupidly is lethal, as it should be....Haven't these morons heard of Jump Freighters?
Of course, it could just bee Bee's ganking their alts to become relevent again....Things like that happen when you have endless isk and no way to waste it ....
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Journies End
138
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:04:00 -
[126] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:The only real problem with high sec is that one cannot defend, we are all sitting ducks, you cannot counter someone who knows he is going to die whatever the result of his attack will be. The ganking side will do it right and you die or you will smile a big smile.
I have no idea how to fix that in a way that is "sandbox thinking people" friendly.
CCP could always code something like, if someone red box you in high sec, you get 5 seconds while the ganking side guns do not fire, but they are GCC. Falcon to the rescue.
Or make all kinds of transport, mining ships have a 1 million armor and shield bonus in high sec.
Or make it impossible to fire at someone if you are not at war with that person.......... This is actually a decent idea in its form.
Ganker goes GCC to the person they have targeted and engaged as well as their entire corporation/alliance for the 5 sec period.
There is NO GCC until the 5 sec time period is over and the guns and mods activate. Gate guns and faction police then engage as per normal times and rules.
Ganker GCC is activated when the warning screen YES button is clicked as is the 5 sec hold period.
Only way this is not initiated is if the target is -5 or under so KOS in high sec anyway.
Red boxed ship and ganker basically freeze, ie no warping off for the target even if warp is engaged, but any corp or target ship can engage ganker within that 5 sec time period. Theres no running, its fight or you die after 5 secs. Anyone truly afk or too slow still gets ganked but at least now you have a 5 second window to fight back, preemptive strike.
Right now ganking in high sec is effectively someone approaching a security guard with a money bag in hand and a pistol on his hip with a loaded gun pointed at the guard. The guard cannot pull his gun out and shoot the ganker even though you know hes going to one shot you in the head and take your money.
5 secs is a small window. Basically you can "draw and shoot first" Han Solo style. But the rest is all over but the crying once it flies. Large freighter ganks are still viable as are small solo ganks. Itll be a slightly less aware target that will be able to be ganked, or a true afk one without any sort of protection. This would allow basically ECM, or one shot defensive measures. Moar DPS will counter it of course, and theres still the % dice roll of ECM mods to be effective. Can you jam that many? Etc etc. And all afk targets are stil juicy. Only the effective, organized and aware pilots, corps and alliances can pull this off.
Also because its limited to corps and alliances it means noob corp hauler alts, mining alts, indy alts are all still fair game. Only corp or alliance members can defend anyway. Forcing these pilots into corps or alliances to make use of this measure. Allowing them to be wardecced in turn and therefore still vulnerable to another form of piracy.
As long as the target ship cannot "escape" and warp off, or log out within the 5 secs timer, but ONLY defend themselves, this could potentially work. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:04:00 -
[127] - Quote
Actually the PSC derail leads to an interesting point,
From The Journal of International Buisness & The Law 4/15/2010:
PIRATES, BLACKWATER AND MARITIME SECURITY: THE RISE OF PRIVATE NAVIES IN RESPONSE TO MODERN PIRACY wrote: Another concern with the use of PSCs is that many flag states discourage the use of armed guards and also restrict commercial vessels from carrying arms aboard. 56 Members of the U.S. Navy have expressed their support of the use of private security contractors. 57 Surprisingly, Somali official Abdulkadir Muse Yusuf, the deputy marine minster of Puntland, has stated that PSCs are GÇ£welcomeGÇ¥ in SomaliaGÇÖs waters. 58 Minister Yusuf even asserts that the presence of PSC personnel might not only deter piracy in Somali waters but also other harmful acts being committed off of SomaliaGÇÖs coast, such as illegal fishing and waste dumping. 59
It would seem to suggest, that coupled with the upcoming changes in GCC flagging under crime watch it might be in the interests of High Sec industrialist to organize professional security corporations to patrol known problem systems. A Sandbox version of CONCORD if you will. Surely such emergent game play is preferable to heavy handed systematic changes. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:05:00 -
[128] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:It would seem to suggest, that coupled with the upcoming changes in GCC flagging under crime watch it might be in the interests of High Sec industrialist to organize professional security corporations to patrol known problem systems. A Sandbox version of CONCORD if you will. Surely such emergent game play is preferable to heavy handed systematic changes. And thus it must be irrelevant to our internet spaceships game.
Buff CONCORD, only the magical police can save us from "teh g4nk3rs" Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:06:00 -
[129] - Quote
Oh wow, Firefox crashed but not before sending the above post. How lucky ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1614
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:07:00 -
[130] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:It would seem to suggest, that coupled with the upcoming changes in GCC flagging under crime watch it might be in the interests of High Sec industrialist to organize professional security corporations to patrol known problem systems. A Sandbox version of CONCORD if you will. Surely such emergent game play is preferable to heavy handed systematic changes. I love this idea, one could purchase security from this mercenary market thing I read is coming. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
654
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Stupidly is lethal, as it should be....Haven't these morons heard of Jump Freighters? Less cargo, higher cost, higher agility, higher EHP. Can't cyno in highsec though. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
10
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:09:00 -
[132] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
I know it's a bit of a derail, but how are private security contractors a violation of Maritime Law?
Yes, you are technically a privateer/pirate due to old British law of the seas. Get a writ of plunder and hoist the Jolly Apple, me maties we be hauling great bootie tonight. Hard to port my Goons this thread be under new writing! |
baltec1
Bat Country
2107
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:14:00 -
[133] - Quote
Greetings from Bat Country!
Apologies for our late reply to this thread but alas we have been hard at work. To be honest I am shocked it has taken this long for a thread of this nature to pop up, we were banking on a bit more rage from beople losing billions. Now, as many of you remember we tried to teach miners how to tank their ships with mixed results. Miners for the most part remained stupid, ice value went up and scores of bots were torn apart.
Well now its the turn of the traders. For years frieghters have been chugging around their baggage with not a care in the world, safe in the knolage that they are too big for the average ganker Joe, who could only look on as billions sail past is tornado. Poor Joe.
Well as of last month this is no longer the case. You see, we too have looked at these supersized metal pinatas and decided to use out staggering pile of gankboats to once again teach the bleating masses of highsec a lesson. This lesson is not to fill your cargohold with too much isk. Under the ever wise Warr Aki and now with extended access to people not in Bat Country we will attempt to educate the dumb for the good of EVE.
As well as making ourselves filthy rich. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2414
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Yes, the oil tanker hired support. What a concept. By the way, they also did so in defiance of Maritime Law and if caught could suffer legal repercussions. Still, it does highlight the concept that taking precautions can save you from a gank. It's just that in EVE those precautions tend to take other forms. Vice Admiral Bill Gortney, Commander of the United States General Command wrote: GÇ£Due to Maersk Alabama following maritime industryGÇÖs best-practices such as embarking security teams, the ship was able to prevent being successfully attacked by pirates. This is a great example of how merchant mariners can take pro-active action to prevent being attacked.GÇ¥
I know it's a bit of a derail, but how are private security contractors a violation of Maritime Law? Pardon, my bad. Civilian crew of commercial vessels have always been restricted from carrying firearms onboard their vessels, and until recently these restrictions defacto included "hired security personnel"... however this policy seems to be changing in recent times (as of last year or so). This approach is still under intense criticism and restriction by many port cities that are concerned with the weaponry coming into their ports. On the other hand, may of these private defense companies charge enough for their services that they simply drop their armament overboard when approaching a highly restricted port and manage to aquire fresh armament when they leave. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:15:00 -
[135] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Samahiel Sotken wrote:I know it's a bit of a derail, but how are private security contractors a violation of Maritime Law? Yes, you are technically a privateer/pirate due to old British law of the seas. Get a writ of plunder and hoist the Jolly Apple, me maties we be hauling great bootie tonight. Hard to port my Goons this thread be under new writing! Oh look, there's a freighter, let's "stop and search" it.
With large guns~~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:16:00 -
[136] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You see, we too have looked at these supersized metal pinatas and decided to use out staggering pile of gankboats to once again teach the bleating masses of highsec a lesson. This lesson is not to fill your cargohold with too much isk. Under the ever wise Warr Aki and now with extended access to people not in Bat Country we will attempt to educate the dumb for the good of EVE. You're never going to succeed in reeducating them.
You are however, making great progress in culling them. Do your best ~~
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
baltec1
Bat Country
2108
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:18:00 -
[137] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: You're never going to succeed in reeducating them.
You are however, making great progress in culling them. Do your best ~~
We can but try. |
Jonah Gravenstein
1151
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
On the subject of private security contractors, many countries will not let you dock with armed personnel on board unless those personnel & the ship belong to a friendly nations armed forces. There is also the risk of vessels being hit not only for their cargo but for their crews weapons, especially in countries where the supply, ownership & use of firearms is extremely regulated. CCP can't patch stupid. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9434
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Greetings from Bat Country! By the way, I'm seeing an awful lot of you guys in ones or twos in local (since I live right on top of two pipelines)GǪ I sure hope those aren't your scouts because that would be ridiculously obvious.
Then again, with customers like these, I suppose that finesse and discretion isn't all that necessary. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
2108
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:31:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:By the way, I'm seeing an awful lot of you guys in ones or twos in local (since I live right on top of two pipelines)GǪ I sure hope those aren't your scouts because that would be ridiculously obvious. Then again, with customers like these, I suppose that finesse and discretion isn't all that necessary.
All part of the lesson we are teaching |
|
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1616
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:You see, we too have looked at these supersized metal pinatas and decided to use out staggering pile of gankboats to once again teach the bleating masses of highsec a lesson. This lesson is not to fill your cargohold with too much isk. Under the ever wise Warr Aki and now with extended access to people not in Bat Country we will attempt to educate the dumb for the good of EVE. You're never going to succeed in reeducating them. You are however, making great progress in culling them. Do your best ~~ Tippia wrote:baltec1 wrote:Greetings from Bat Country! By the way, I'm seeing an awful lot of you guys in ones or twos in local (since I live right on top of two pipelines)GǪ I sure hope those aren't your scouts because that would be ridiculously obvious. Then again, with customers like these, I suppose that finesse and discretion isn't all that necessary. Mean people suck. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:Samahiel Sotken wrote:I know it's a bit of a derail, but how are private security contractors a violation of Maritime Law? Yes, you are technically a privateer/pirate due to old British law of the seas. Get a writ of plunder and hoist the Jolly Apple, me maties we be hauling great bootie tonight. Hard to port my Goons this thread be under new writing! Oh look, there's a freighter, let's "stop and search" it. With large guns~~ Aye, why use these newfangled cargo scanners when we can be sending them on their journey faster.
The real issue is that a pmc could be very easily a bridgehead, and a lot of the world does not like a well armed foreign national in their country, much less a citizen.
Also I hardly feel bad for these people in the standard industrials. The freighters a bit more so unless some one dissuades me through explaining how you can bump a ship off grid. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9434
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:37:00 -
[143] - Quote
Quite right. Haulers should stop being so angry and learn how to have fun instead.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:39:00 -
[144] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Goonswarm Customs and Excise, searching your freight for shinies erryday Well now I know what to call my altcorp if I ever have to make one. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Horatioh Kane
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:52:00 -
[145] - Quote
I think the funniest part of this thread is that the guy with the incursion stuff was cool about losing it. He literally said, "it's just isk, I'll make it back in a couple months. GF." |
Jonah Gravenstein
1152
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Horatioh Kane wrote:I think the funniest part of this thread is that the guy with the incursion stuff was cool about losing it. He literally said, "it's just isk, I'll make it back in a couple months. GF."
Kudos to him, he gets Eve. CCP can't patch stupid. |
GOTMYEYEONYOU
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:10:00 -
[147] - Quote
GOTMYEYEONYOU wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Those freighter pilots could also set an escort fleet and take care of their business but no, they rather play alone with their dozen alts scouting systems and then cry their millions HP hull got gank with several dozens times the ship value in their cargo.
Gank mining barges with destroyers is silly, really really mongoloid game play. Gank freighters it's serious business and only serious gankers can afford to know when and how to do it, I see no problem here.
*snip*Content Removed.
Please ensure your posts are constructive and not of a 'flaming' manner. Forum hamsters get scared when so many harsh words are used.
- ISD Praetoxx Are you kidding me? Now you guys are editing for the word "moron"?
Quote:You're [wrong] on so many levels [, let me frame my argument in the form of questions]. Do you have any idea how much freight moves in EVE? Any idea at all? Do realize how many escorts that would take? Are you volunteering for this escort duty? Do you know ANYONE who would want to do it, day in and day out? Do you not understand what a suicide gank is? Can you please explain to me how this escort will prevent the gank? Do you know anything about ganking freighters? It is neither hard nor expensive. Can you count or read? Show me the freighter or JF with "millions HP hull."
I can see no logical reason for you to remove anything else from this post. You should not have deleted the whole thing. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9434
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
GOTMYEYEONYOU wrote:Are you kidding me? Now you guys are editing for the word "moron"? No, they're editing for general personal abuse with no point to it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
656
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:14:00 -
[149] - Quote
ISD just wanted to make a preemptive strike against badposting. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
579
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:ISD just wanted to make a preemptive strike against badposting. Preemptive?
Little late for that, I'd say... ;)
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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