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Iyacia Cyric'ai
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:20:00 -
[1]
How are they "Patriotic" and "Nationalistic" when the State is simply a conglomerate of corporations that spend most of their time waging a cold war against each other.
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:26:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai How are they "Patriotic" and "Nationalistic" when the State is simply a conglomerate of corporations that spend most of their time waging a cold war against each other.
Healthy Corperate competition is not a bad thing, just like the bitter cold winds of our great and recently recaptured homewolrd Caldari Prime make us stronger. With Glorious and Uncontested Leader Tibus Heth leading the way with our glorious Drake Armada's nothing will stop our Nationalistic State.
Hail Caldari o7
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Culmen
Caldari Vigrior The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:28:00 -
[3]
The real world analogy. How can the British have national identity when there are various soccer clubs that are almost perpetually at war?
Little smaller gulf between state and corp vs nation and club, but same principles. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Selinate
Amarr Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:29:00 -
[4]
.... Welcome to America?
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:42:00 -
[6]
This short story ruthless will help you understand what happens when a Corperation goes to far in competition that it starts to cause trouble for the State as a whole. The shock when people find out the tactics being used by Ishikone and what they do about it are amazing.
It also sets up and feild tests the first Raven Battleship which in itself is awsome.
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
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Posted - 2011.06.09 05:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm This short story ruthless will help you understand what happens when a Corperation goes to far in competition that it starts to cause trouble for the State as a whole. The shock when people find out the tactics being used by Ishikone and what they do about it are amazing.
It also sets up and feild tests the first Raven Battleship which in itself is awsome.
Ty. That'll make for a good read on the bus.
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2011.06.09 07:45:00 -
[8]
In the State, when someone offers a choice, you beat them to near death for trying to limit you and then proceed to explore all options.
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Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2011.06.09 07:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 09/06/2011 07:54:23 Edited by: Cpt Fina on 09/06/2011 07:53:52
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
The mere fact that the term "un-american" is used frequently and is taken seriously as an insult in the american society tell us much about american patriotism.
In most free societies, saying that someone is "un-[that country]" is laughed upon if used as a slur and in many cases it's seen as a compliment. Through history this term has mostly been used in autocratic societies like the soviet union for example.
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C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
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Posted - 2011.06.09 08:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
Right........Americans have no heroes. No Robert E Lees, no Eisenhowers, Franklins, no one to look up to, no sacrifices made to ensure the continuation of the nation, etc. BTW...seeing something usually requires you to open your eyes.
I'm no Yankee fan, but your post made me wince. Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
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Rolare
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.09 09:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: C4LYP50
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
Right........Americans have no heroes. No Robert E Lees, no Eisenhowers, Franklins, no one to look up to, no sacrifices made to ensure the continuation of the nation, etc. BTW...seeing something usually requires you to open your eyes.
I'm no Yankee fan, but your post made me wince.
To add to that, the Ardenne Offensive in WWII was stopped by mainly American recruits and units that had taken heavy losses elsewhere, no small feat considering that around 1/3 of the German forces consisted of hardcore war veterans from the Eastern Front.
Specially the story of a new unit of about 80-odd infantry men is quite that of what Yakia Tovil-Toba(s) style, they called in artillery on their position to stop the German advance. Only one of them survived, that's quite some dedication y'know.
In newer history however, I don't know if there are any like that.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.06.09 10:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Culmen The real world analogy. How can the British have national identity when there are various soccer clubs that are almost perpetually at war?
Little smaller gulf between state and corp vs nation and club, but same principles.
I'm assuming from your use of the evil word 'soccer' that you're either not British or you're dumbing things down for the yanks
Also, the British don't really have a national identity anymore. The British identity was mainly based on the idea of empire and involved replacing the four national identities with something greater (actually, the main thing was to replace the English national identity to allow the celtic fringe to feel ownership of the brand rather than subjugation by it). Now the empire is largely gone (Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands don't really count) it's difficult for a lot of brits to find something genuinely unifying to hang a collective identity on, hence the push for greater autonomy in Wales and Scotland, which have their own parliaments now. Indeed, now that the SNP has a majority in the Scottish parliament it looks like they'll be having a referendum on independence pretty soon. English nationalism is also on the rise (after all, why subsidise the celts when there is little in it for the English). The last true believers in the British identity are the Ulster unionists who are in many ways a British creation and who can't really claim the Irish identity.
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Bevil Smyth
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.09 10:38:00 -
[13]
Back on the original topic though. Caldari is hard to match up to a real world state simply because there arent really parallels.
Its a nation of megacorporations who control the day to day of the citizens with a charismatic but xenophobic dictator (if you remember the book he started out as a "terrorist") scaring them all into line and governing things like foreign policy and acting as glue to unify the state as a single people.
Its not a very nice place to live, but it breeds hard people. ============================ 2003 and still alive! |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.09 12:04:00 -
[14]
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power" - Benito Mussolini
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2011.06.09 12:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Culmen The real world analogy. How can the British have national identity when there are various soccer clubs that are almost perpetually at war?
Little smaller gulf between state and corp vs nation and club, but same principles.
I'm assuming from your use of the evil word 'soccer' that you're either not British or you're dumbing things down for the yanks
Also, the British don't really have a national identity anymore. The British identity was mainly based on the idea of empire and involved replacing the four national identities with something greater (actually, the main thing was to replace the English national identity to allow the celtic fringe to feel ownership of the brand rather than subjugation by it). Now the empire is largely gone (Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands don't really count) it's difficult for a lot of brits to find something genuinely unifying to hang a collective identity on, hence the push for greater autonomy in Wales and Scotland, which have their own parliaments now. Indeed, now that the SNP has a majority in the Scottish parliament it looks like they'll be having a referendum on independence pretty soon. English nationalism is also on the rise (after all, why subsidise the celts when there is little in it for the English). The last true believers in the British identity are the Ulster unionists who are in many ways a British creation and who can't really claim the Irish identity.
a few Scottish people want independence. I mean they have voted on this before and failed if i remembered? Yet they keep pushing.
Also I blame this on the EU. EU is screwing us up more and more. Also we still have the commonwealth too. Anyhow I would say more about the EU but that be politics and getting the thread locked ------------------------------------
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
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Posted - 2011.06.09 12:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Iyacia Cyric''ai on 09/06/2011 12:24:10 Edited by: Iyacia Cyric''ai on 09/06/2011 12:23:39
Originally by: C4LYP50
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
Right........Americans have no heroes. No Robert E Lees, no Eisenhowers, Franklins, no one to look up to, no sacrifices made to ensure the continuation of the nation, etc. BTW...seeing something usually requires you to open your eyes.
I'm no Yankee fan, but your post made me wince.
Right. Any in recent history or just the earlier years of a nation where pretty much every country is patriotic and nationalistic?
I mean I'm sure there are some relatively unknown servicemen or average joes that do things that can be considered heroic almost every day, but as far as something that's nationally heralded and permeated through the state like the Caldari lore describes it, I'm not seeing it in the US.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai How are they "Patriotic" and "Nationalistic" when the State is simply a conglomerate of corporations that spend most of their time waging a cold war against each other.
It's just immersion stuff. All the races are basically the same. And the new character creator made them even more homogenous. The only race that sticks out are the Jove which are currently unplayable.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: northwesten a few Scottish people want independence. I mean they have voted on this before and failed if i remembered? Yet they keep pushing.
Not true, Westminster won the 1979 referendum through being backhanded. They introduced a rule whereby 60% of the population had to vote yes to independence before the Scotland Act 1978 could be implemented. The net effect of this was that everyone who didn't turn up to vote automatically got counted as a no, for this reason the act wasn't passed despite the fact that a majority of people voted for independence.
Saor Alba
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Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:59:00 -
[19]
The caldari corporations manipulate their workforces to whatever end they desire. All caldari citizens are loyal to their patron company, and if the companies say that gallente are the enemy, then that is the case.
Its mass brainwashing.
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
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Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kara Sharalien The caldari corporations manipulate their workforces to whatever end they desire. All caldari citizens are loyal to their patron company, and if the companies say that gallente are the enemy, then that is the case.
Its mass brainwashing.
Yes. While we Gallente are actually very nice.
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Not-Apsalar
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:17:00 -
[21]
The Caldari are more reminiscent of fictional views of a corporatist future such as those found in Gibson's Sprawl trilogy(Japan) and Stephenson's Snow Crash(United States). There are no modern parallels, but the 80s were rife with fears that Japan would evolve into that(the basis of many cyberpunk tales, including Gibson's)
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:05:00 -
[22]
I'm shocked to learn I have culture.
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Pineapple Squatsauce
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:11:00 -
[23]
That's the thing, mate. There is a single, relatively coherent Caldari culture. The corporations are made up, primarily, of Caldari citizens. While they will happily jockey for position with their fellow corporations, the moment some outsider tries to get involved, they'll join up and fight. Lots of cultures are like this.
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I am Pineapple Squatsauce and I approve of this message. |
Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:17:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 09/06/2011 16:18:00 Please, Americans are nothing if not patriotic.
You can't see one picture from America, be it an official photograph of the president or a hastily snapped shot of some random guy on a bus, without seeing an American flag somewhere in the background.
You need only mention cowboy hats or apple pie (which they only adopted by the way) and they launch themselves bolt-upright and chant "GOD BLESS AMERICA" like a general leading a charge.
Truly the most patriotic country on this planet.
Little do they know, most of their flags are imported from China.
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Delkana Fox
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:18:00 -
[25]
The closest comparison in history that I can think of to the Caldari is not the USA but the CSA. Individual member states with no real central government. If you look in the American south you will still find plenty of people loyal to the CSA despite the nation no longer actually existing. Considering the only thing the states had in common was geographic location and a name yet still had national loyalty I think the argument could be made that the Caldari are something similar. A group of people that may not care that much for each other but hate everyone else even more. |
Exordium8
Minmatar Not a Shell Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai Edited by: Iyacia Cyric''ai on 09/06/2011 12:29:19 Edited by: Iyacia Cyric''ai on 09/06/2011 12:24:10 Edited by: Iyacia Cyric''ai on 09/06/2011 12:23:39
Originally by: C4LYP50
Originally by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Originally by: Selinate .... Welcome to America?
America, overall, doesn't seem that patriotic. American patriotism as I've seen it usually comes up as a joke or in parodies (e.g. Team America). I don't see any Yakia Tovil-Tobas in the US.
Right........Americans have no heroes. No Robert E Lees, no Eisenhowers, Franklins, no one to look up to, no sacrifices made to ensure the continuation of the nation, etc. BTW...seeing something usually requires you to open your eyes.
I'm no Yankee fan, but your post made me wince.
Right. Any in recent history or just the earlier years of a nation where pretty much every country is patriotic and nationalistic?
I mean I'm sure there are some relatively unknown servicemen or average joes that do things that can be considered heroic almost every day, but as far as something that's nationally heralded and permeated through the state like the Caldari lore describes it, I'm not seeing it in the US.
Back on topic though. The main thing I can think of is the fact that the State is surrounded by other hostile superpowers and a lot of pirates. But that shouldn't bring the Caldari people any closer than the other states.
How about Neil Armstrong? That's more recent. Besides, we're still in the early years of our nation. We've only been a nation for about 250 years.
Americans are generally laid back on the whole patriotism, until someone messes with us. Then we go bat****. See the US standing around in WWII until Pearl Harbor, and look at the reaction we had to Sept. 11th. --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Riddick Liddell
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Posted - 2011.06.09 16:19:00 -
[27]
Caldari
Why thier pheeemales wear clothing is beyond me though |
Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rolare [To add to that, the Ardenne Offensive in WWII was stopped by mainly American recruits and units that had taken heavy losses elsewhere, no small feat considering that around 1/3 of the German forces consisted of hardcore war veterans from the Eastern Front.
there were a variety of reasons the german advance was stopped. lack of fuel, weather clearing exposed them to massive air power, monty from the north and patton from the south driving into their flanks. even the paratroopers at bastogne survived mostly because the germans decided to bypass them rather than take the time to crush them.
it certainly wasn't the green troops who mostly shattered like glass when attacked that managed to stop the german advance.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Exordium8 Americans are generally laid back on the whole patriotism, until someone messes with us. Then we go bat****. See the US standing around in WWII until Pearl Harbor, and look at the reaction we had to Sept. 11th.
laid back??? americans are obnoxiously patriotic as a rule.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.09 18:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ehranavaar
Originally by: Exordium8 Americans are generally laid back on the whole patriotism, until someone messes with us. Then we go bat****. See the US standing around in WWII until Pearl Harbor, and look at the reaction we had to Sept. 11th.
laid back??? americans are obnoxiously patriotic as a rule.
Only in the media and only by puppet politicans like Sarah Palin.
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