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Ebeneezer Jade
Aetherial Blade
0
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Question for PvP folks out there who have fought against Thanatos carriers and live in wormholes:
I totally suck at PvP--so bear with me.
Suppose you have a target you are going to strike--a small corp that lives in a Class 1 Wormhole (only Battlecruiser and smaller ships can fit inside, 20 million kg limit). The target corp keeps a Thanatos they've built inside the Class 1, but they never bring it out unless they have a couple of battleships or T3 cruisers as support for it. (They build the BS inside their class 1 also). You'd love that juicy killmail against a carrier, but your own corp is pretty small (typically only 7-8 players on at a time, a dozen if we're lucky).
We think the target Thanatos does not equip a triage module normally, but it does seem to be set up for cap transfer and assigning drones to the other players. They don't seem to use the Thanatos for running C1 sites (overkill), but mostly to break POS sieges and drive away invaders. The other player's ships seemed to be a bit specialized toward fighting smaller, faster ships (which makes sense with the size limitations on their wormhole).
If a fleet wanted to attack that Thanatos when it's away from the POS, what ships should they bring to do the job, and how many ships would it take to knock it out? Can we do it with only 7-8 players, assuming we catch them with only 3 of the targets online--1 in the thanny, and the other two in their BS or T3 ships? I'm pretty sure a hictor would be useful if we bubbled the Thanatos, but beyond that, I'm not sure what else to throw in the fleet. For fleet composition, would long range snipers like oracles or similar be sufficient with a close-up tackler frigate? We're trying to think through whether such an attack would be worthwhile or not, given our small numbers and the WH size limitations. Suggestions on fleet makeup? Can 7-8 dudes in BC or smaller ships reasonably take out 3-4 players in Battleships and a Carrier who are set up for fighting smaller, faster opponents? Or is this just a waste of our time? |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
35
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
1: Sneak Pos into system
2: Build Nyx
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Trendon Evenstar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
7-8 dudes in tengus can kill a Thanatos and any support in seconds. |
Angsty Teenager
65
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, probably.
Bring a fleet of T3's + Logi. So assuming 8 guys, bring 2 guardians, 4 proteuses and 2 neut legions or something. I'm not really super experienced actually doing what you're talking about, but you'll probably want to be bringing T3's. 3-4 battleships isn't an issue vs cruiser sized ships with logi support and really your only issue is the thanny out repping you, so you'll probably have to neut it out (especially if it triages)
I'm sure somebody who has done this will come along and either confirm/deny what I've said. |
Ebeneezer Jade
Aetherial Blade
0
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Posted - 2012.09.10 18:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dread Pirate Pete wrote: 1. "Sneak Pos into system, 2. build Nyx"
We jokingly talked about that, but to haul in the cap parts would take, what 144 trips in a Prorator? Since the static exits are nulsec, and lowsec, we aren't too wild about that--figuring that would take a couple montths without direct to high-sec routes. :)
Trendon Evenstar wrote: 7-8 Tengus can kill a Thanatos and any support in seconds.
Wow--Really? In like 2-3 volleys? How much DPS does 1 Tengu do when fully pimped?
Angsty Teenager wrote: Bring a fleet of T3's + Logi. So assuming 8 guys, bring 2 guardians, 4 proteuses, and 2 neut legions or something.
We'd been considering the 2 guardians, though would 3 be better given how much repping power a carrier has? We've only got 2-3 T3 pilots, but we have several available logis (which is why we were thinking oracles for rest of fleet composition).
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Martin0
The Scope Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Yes, probably.
Bring a fleet of T3's + Logi. So assuming 8 guys, bring 2 guardians, 4 proteuses and 2 neut legions or something. I'm not really super experienced actually doing what you're talking about, but you'll probably want to be bringing T3's. 3-4 battleships isn't an issue vs cruiser sized ships with logi support and really your only issue is the thanny out repping you, so you'll probably have to neut it out (especially if it triages)
I'm sure somebody who has done this will come along and either confirm/deny what I've said.
I like this idea, maybe add a falcon to the mix. |
Angsty Teenager
66
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
7-8 tengus can't kill a thanny in seconds, he's exaggerating. Assuming you're running HML max deeps tengus, you're getting like 700dps each, so at max that's 5800dps. Even an untriaged thanny can tank ~3000-4000dps and has 1mil + ehp, so it's still going to take a while though it's theoretically possible.
You're better off just bringing a gang to fight whatever they bring, and having enough neuts to force the thanny to cap out.
EDIT: I don't really know why you would need more than 2 guardians--the thanny's repping power has nothing to do with it, and there is no way that 3-4BS can kill a T3 with 2 sets of guardian reps on it (I assume that you will keep the guardians ~50km away from the fight since there is no need to have them close--and hence they won't be taking fire, or if they are, limited fire since they're at range).
Probably your best bet is to bring the comp I suggested (not exactly, but along the lines of 2 logi, 4 dps, 2 neut support, preferrably all high tank T3's), and stick all the neuts on the thanny and try breaking the tank of the BS's, that'll make the thanny waste tons of cap to keep up T1 resisted BS's (if he even can), and once he caps out, finish off the BS's and then kill him.
Keep in mind that they'll likely reship if they die, so you should be prepared. I would try getting as many people as you can, more than just 8. |
Ebeneezer Jade
Aetherial Blade
0
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Angsty Wrote:
Quote:EDIT: I don't really know why you would need more than 2 guardians--the thanny's repping power has nothing to do with it, and there is no way that 3-4BS can kill a T3 with 2 sets of guardian reps on it (I assume that you will keep the guardians ~50km away from the fight since there is no need to have them close--and hence they won't be taking fire, or if they are, limited fire since they're at range).
Probably your best bet is to bring the comp I suggested (not exactly, but along the lines of 2 logi, 4 dps, 2 neut support, preferrably all high tank T3's), and stick all the neuts on the thanny and try breaking the tank of the BS's, that'll make the thanny waste tons of cap to keep up T1 resisted BS's (if he even can), and once he caps out, finish off the BS's and then kill him.
Ebeneezer wrote:
Interesting. We'll keep it to two guardians then. Is the guardian small enough and fast enough at 50 km to ignore the damage from the carrier's fighters and sentries? I know carriers are better at killing larger ships than small ones, generally. |
Angsty Teenager
66
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Should be, particularly if you AB fit it. Has like 70 sig and goes ~600m/s.
It's your call. I don't particularly see the need for more than 2 guardians, though depending on how tanked you plan to have your oracles, you might want 3. I would personally be 100% confident with 2 guardians w/ all T3s.
I would be less concerned about fighters and sentries (since fighters literally will not be doing any meaningful dps to your ships, and you can kill sentries), than I would about them having vindis/bhaals that could really **** with your ****. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
137
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Couple Tier 3 BCs, two logi and a curse QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
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Cameron Cahill
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
94
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Posted - 2012.09.10 21:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Basicly the best way to kill a carrier with only subcaps is to cap him out.
No bhaals in a c1 so get neut legions (1-3) your logi (as many as possible) and dps (whatever you like) |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
356
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Posted - 2012.09.10 22:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Practical and cheap way;
- 3 guards - 1/2 neuting legions (or a few curses). - Armour canes. Neuts in utility (gonna need at least 10 if you dont have any neuting legions)
Assuming you already have a plan to get the carrier tackled that is all you need.
Once the carrier is tackled all neuts and dps on carrier while simply tanking the support fleet with guardian reps. You wont be able to break their sub-caps anyway so just force the carrier to run his local reppers to use up its cap. Might also be useful to have drones attack the sub caps so he has to cycle a remote rep from time to time using up more cap.
This should leave him in a situation where he is cap dry and no longer useful. At this point the sub cap fleet will bail so spread points. Go make a cup of tea while the carrier goes down (depending on your numbers).
EDIT - Didnt see nexes post, also dont know why i didnt think of curse, ya a few of them would make a good alternative to the legion.
As for 2 guardians, its a tough one because 1 falcon and both your guardians are dead along with your fleet presumably. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
554
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Posted - 2012.09.11 01:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
3 guardians and 4+ DPS T3s will do it easy. hell, 3 guards and 5+ DPS HACs will be fine too. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
356
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Posted - 2012.09.11 02:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:3 guardians and 4+ DPS T3s will do it easy. hell, 3 guards and 5+ DPS HACs will be fine too.
Not at all. A full skilled regular triage pilot can cap stable tank over 11000dps on a regular triage fit. Under 8 heavy neuts he can still scrape a sustained 9000 ish dps tank if managing his reps correctly.
So really you will have to bring a fleet that can deal over 11000dps OR bring a whole bunch of neuts. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
56
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Posted - 2012.09.11 05:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tier 3 battlecruisers with falcon support and some logi will do wonders; 1000 dps per Talos adds up quick. I've never tried, but I think they're immune to jamming while in triage, so the falcon is to deal with support ships if there are any.
Some tech 3 neuting support would be great too.
Svodola Darkfury. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
50
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
if you only have 2-3 T3 pilots, be sure to get a few Curse pilots going. Like they said above, the hands down most important thing you can do next to maintaining tackle, is to get that carrier capped out, and keep it there. |
feihcsiM
Last Exit For The Lost Dark Therapy
35
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Posted - 2012.09.13 11:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Someone in a SEBO thrasher on pod duty is always useful in WHs. You pod the enemy's ass out of the WH and he cant get in another ship and come back to the fight
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Matarella
The Last Call. Black Core Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.09.13 16:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
feihcsiM wrote:Someone in a SEBO thrasher on pod duty is always useful in WHs. You pod the enemy's ass out of the WH and he cant get in another ship and come back to the fight this |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
327
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Posted - 2012.09.13 16:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Like this?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14594254
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Lugia3
Shydow Imperium
27
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Posted - 2012.09.16 14:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
That Thanatos deserved to die. Such a terrible, terrible, fit. Will sell wallet space for ISK. |
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
352
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Posted - 2012.09.16 21:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:1: Sneak Pos into system
2: Build Nyx
SuperCraps can be built in wormholes now?
1/10.
Next!
There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
Lex Fasces
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
9
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Posted - 2012.09.17 08:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
what have they built a thanny in a c1 anyway lol |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
432
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Posted - 2012.09.17 08:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Inevitably this will result in a self-destruction. You want massive, massive DPS....or a Thanny pilot who really wants to brag about his lossmail. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Cameron Cahill
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
95
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Posted - 2012.09.17 10:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Doesn't matter if he sd's now you still get the killmail (<3 ccp) |
TriadSte
IronPig Sev3rance
108
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
You can't build supers in wormholes because you need sovereignity of the system your building in.
You dont have that in W space so no..
Thanatos are support ships - they're not solo pwn mobiles. Without support your dead, even with triage your dead because they will bubble you which cuts off a fuel supply. |
Airto TLA
Puppeteers of Doom Real Life Rejects
27
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:That Thanatos deserved to die. Such a terrible, terrible, fit.
The best part are teh skill books in the hold |
Zen Hayabusa
Executive Override Inc. Transmission Lost
1
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
a 10 man gang would WTFPWN a thanny and any noob battleship fleet
6 prot 2 Legions 2 Guardians
Also ,maybe a devoter or flycatcher for the pods |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
64
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Posted - 2012.09.21 07:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:You wont be able to break their sub-caps anyway so just force the carrier to run his local reppers to use up its cap It's more trouble for a carrier-pilot to be forced to rep it's support than to tank himself. Especially if the primary switches around a lot or if dmg is spread on several of the support.
dps on the support, neuts on the carrier. http://rnat-postmortem.blogspot.se |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
366
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
A few thoughts...
1) This has nothing to do with Factional Warfare, so i'm not really sure if this is the right subforum.
2) Use more than 2 Guardians if you can. Only 2 Guardians isn't a very resilient cap chain and is easy to disrupt.
3) These guys seem pretty prepared and the fact that you had to come here and ask means you'll probably get roflstomped regardless of what you bring. I don't mean that as an insult, just something to consider if you don't have any experienced FCs.
4) It really depends on the battleships they bring and how well they're fit. Regular battleships will get roflstomped by close range T3s if you can break their reps. If they have Vindicators and Bhaalgorns, you might have some issues.
5) Depending on his triage fit and character skills, two Legions might not be enough to cap out the Thanny. If he's badly fit, you should be fine, but if he isn't you will run into problems.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Gary Bell
Odyssey Inc SpaceMonkey's Alliance
17
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Posted - 2012.09.21 18:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
As they said.. Logi, and tier three BCs are prob your best bet. A few nados with 800's can stay out at a good safe range and lay down nice dps and a curse will be able to nuet as well at same range. So say 3 logi for extra cap ability for the curses, 2 curses fit will all medium nuets, and the rest med range tier 3 battlecruisers. A falcon is never a bad idea either but this will allow you to maintain a safe range while nuking support and holding a point on the carrier. Tbh it will prob result in alot of subcap kills b4 the carrier sefl destructs but should be fun. WOuld make sure your fcs are well versed it kiting tactics. PS.. If he triages your ******.. |
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