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Grifthin
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:10:00 -
[1]
I come to you fine gents with a question - I'm in need of some isk to feed my pvp habit. Do you think it's worth sinking the time into training for a marauder (the Vargur) to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
Is it worth the upgrade going from baby vargur maelstrom to a vargur ?
What is your oppinion on the matter ?
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:29:00 -
[2]
In my opinion absolutely, it is among the well known faction bs like mach and nightmare the fastest mission ship along with the ability to salvage while blitzing the missions. Saves alot of time and more comfortable to fly than mach due to tracking and better tank with only slightly less dps. Changeable ammo means that it can be used everywhere with equal performance. The core fitting how it should be configured:
[Vargur, New Setup 1] Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tank to taste and size of the wallet
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
This combination of modules and rigs gives it the optimal performance, since fallof is nearly equal to damage in case of minmatar.
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Val Karan
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:30:00 -
[3]
upgrade to machariel instead.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:35:00 -
[4]
I knew that was coming
This question arises once a day on the forums probably. I cannot convince the unbelievers, just want to say this:
Compare your isk/h with and without salvage while killing npcs and completing missions. You will notice quite a difference. Coming back in a noctis decreases your isk/h as you dont fly the next mission already.
The skill prerequisites are useful as well, half my fittings work only with awu V for example.
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Fi1ippo
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Val Karan upgrade to machariel instead.
"The man behind the mask is a Maverik Letting off buck-ten shots for the hat trick."
From the song Overtime (Maverik Lacrosse Commercial), by D.One.
Life = Lax |
Capri Sern
Minmatar PCG Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.13 11:19:00 -
[6]
I've run in both the Mach and the Vargur. The Varg requires you to be a lot more focused on what you are doing to really get the most out of it. You have to constantly be tractoring in wrecks and salvaging in order to compete with a noctis whilst managing range so it's a lot more work than just running through in the mach and salvaging later would be. Personally i found it didn't suit my play style as i often can't devote all my attention to the mission.
Also if you are in an area where you frequently go up against jamming rats forget it. You'll need to sacrifice the extra tank to fit ECCM and looting and salvaging on the fly (a marauders main trick) becomes very hard.
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality" Bruce Lee - the only man with a Chuck Norris Killmail |
Lenara Naren
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Posted - 2011.06.13 13:11:00 -
[7]
I grind missions in Maelstrom and salvage with my noctis on the second account. In some missions, the money gained from the loot/salvage equals the amount of the bounty. For example in Angel Extravaganza there is about 15mil ISK in bounties (without bonus room) + 5-15 mil in salvage/loot (depends on the implant drop, angels loot and salvage is a bit crappy compared to bloods/sansha). But IMHO salvaging on the same account is ineffective ISK/hour. Doing it simultaneously is the way and running a marauder is the only way to do it properly on 1 account. Vargur will be somewhere around 75-80% of ISK/hour of mach + noctis on sepparate accounts and 150% of ISK/hour on the same account.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.13 13:35:00 -
[8]
You can train to be in a Mach much, much, much faster than a Vargur, which means you're making isk that much sooner.
The price on salvage isn't really worth the extra effort of rushing to train a Vargur.
Besides, you can always train up the Mach's battleship skills to just IV and then get around to BS V and AWU V for the Vargur when you have the time and patience.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.06.13 13:43:00 -
[9]
If you already have the skills to fly a Vargur, why not. If you need to tractor and salvage at the same time, vargur is your bet. If you want to be reasonably overtanked and do good DPS Vargur. If you want super high DPS and speed tank missions, Mach. Personally I prefer more defense for my mission ships just in case I'm tired and mess up. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:04:00 -
[10]
IMHO its one of the best ways you can single account PVE. If you dual box its kind of not worth it, although eventually you will need most of the skills to fly one if you plan on doing a lot of sub capitol non industrial piloting. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:56:00 -
[11]
Yes, it is worth it. I have flown all 4 Marauders and each of them can do very nicely. AWU V is also a very nice skill to have trained. --- This doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Constable Chang
Amarr The Restorian Movement
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Grifthin I come to you fine gents with a question - I'm in need of some isk to feed my pvp habit. Do you think it's worth sinking the time into training for a marauder (the Vargur) to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
Is it worth the upgrade going from baby vargur maelstrom to a vargur ?
What is your oppinion on the matter ?
What I have never understood about marauders is this;
If you are doing missions in a high DPS ship how are you spending long enough in a mission site to do any salvaging?
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Judicator Saturnius
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Constable Chang
Originally by: Grifthin I come to you fine gents with a question - I'm in need of some isk to feed my pvp habit. Do you think it's worth sinking the time into training for a marauder (the Vargur) to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
Is it worth the upgrade going from baby vargur maelstrom to a vargur ?
What is your oppinion on the matter ?
What I have never understood about marauders is this;
If you are doing missions in a high DPS ship how are you spending long enough in a mission site to do any salvaging?
You only salvage large wrecks and generally have plenty of time to do it in gated missions since marauders are sloooooowwwww.
@OP, I waffle on the issue quite a bit. Most days I love my paladin, but i'm also prone to fly my nightmare and wish that I hadn't wasted the SP. In all honesty I probably wouldn't re-train marauders if I was refunded the sp. Then again, i'm all kinds of lazy.
vOv
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Cate Wolf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:46:00 -
[14]
not worth the time to be honest unless you mission ALOT. I wouldnt train for marauders again, made that mistake on 2 accounts.
stick to mach/nightmare/cnr/tengu depending on where you mission.
the small difference in income will not affect you if you just mission abit to support your pvp ships.
no point in marauders anymore seriously.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2011.06.13 18:24:00 -
[15]
You are acting as if its wasted time.. how long does it take to train marauders to IV? 5 days? Cmon, seriously...
As I stated before, AWU V is mandatory at some time anyway, there are lots of fittings that require it, might as well train it earlier. BS V? One should have at least one battleship to V as they are useful in a variety of ways and the faction BS profit as well. The other skill (energy grid upgrades?) is around a week I think. Its really not that long.
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Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.06.13 19:16:00 -
[16]
I rarely fly marauders, but I'm quite glad that I did train it up on two separate accounts, as it is always a nice option to have. That being said... since the pirate ship boost, they aren't really all that great comparitively, but AWU 5 was well worth the time. Still trying to find a good oportunity to use a marauder though... haven't quite managed to figure out something that I can't do better with either a different ship or different combination or ships.
-Arazel
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Judicator Saturnius
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: McRoll You are acting as if its wasted time.. how long does it take to train marauders to IV? 5 days? Cmon, seriously...
As I stated before, AWU V is mandatory at some time anyway, there are lots of fittings that require it, might as well train it earlier. BS V? One should have at least one battleship to V as they are useful in a variety of ways and the faction BS profit as well. The other skill (energy grid upgrades?) is around a week I think. Its really not that long.
I believe the point is an optimal marauder (marauders V, long train) is worth effectively zero in the long-term while two racial bs skills at V is quite useful.
vOv
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Murev Vorchilde
Caldari End Game.
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:44:00 -
[18]
lvl 5 marauder is from required or even that usefull, on vargur is a bit more tank which is already overkill and a bit more tracking which is already as much as you need, cant see either bonus giving faster mission times. its great ship just salavge what you can before the mission is complete then leae the rest. - How Id Fix |
Tenzeck
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:56:00 -
[19]
If you plan to fly battleships that use the appropriate racial skill, training for the skills needed to unlock the Marauder skill is well worth it even if you never actually plan to buy the Marauder book.
AWU5 is just extremely nice to have in general. I can't really overstate that. Imagine happy unicorns dancing on rainbows while finding ways to solve world hunger in a totally vegan way, then a huge sign proclaiming how great AWU5 is just lands on the scene and crushes the life out of it all.
That's how great AWU5 is.
The level 5 battleship skill is a long train, but if you're using a battleship in missions long term it's pretty much always worth the training time.
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Capitalist DeSandre
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Posted - 2011.06.13 23:29:00 -
[20]
Marauders are usually side grades compared to navy and pirate variant battleships. It comes down to what you think is more useful; a second battleship skill to V or AWU5+marauder skill4/5.
If you're just making cash to fund your PVP habit then a navy battleship will suit your needs 100%. No need to add time to that.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.14 00:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grifthin I come to you fine gents with a question - I'm in need of some isk to feed my pvp habit. Do you think it's worth sinking the time into training for a marauder (the Vargur) to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
Is it worth the upgrade going from baby vargur maelstrom to a vargur ?
What is your oppinion on the matter ?
Vargur is very good, and yes, I have a character that has run level 4's in one before. It's easy to fit, tanks everything admirably and the DPS is really rather good.
The only thing I realised in flying it is that it's actually cheaper and slightly quicker to use a cap injected Maelstrom. In most missions it wont even need to inject and costs a fifth? of the price.
Anyone telling you to upgrade to a Machariel just to run level 4's is incompetent.
~~~
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Ynot Eyob
Minmatar Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.06.14 10:44:00 -
[22]
I can fly both Mach and vargur too.
I prefere the Mach. Picking up 5-6 missions at once (Nice to have multi lvl 4s in same system or 1 jump apart) Finish the 5-6 missions within an hour and then swap to the Noctis.
It might be skills, but there is nowhere i can finish a mission as fast in a vargur as i can in the Mach.
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Ynot Eyob
Minmatar Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.06.14 10:49:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ynot Eyob on 14/06/2011 10:51:11
Originally by: Lady Spank
Anyone telling you to upgrade to a Machariel just to run level 4's is incompetent.
Really.. Iv done over 4000 missions Iv used Loki Maelstrom, Vargur and Mach There is no where any of abov can compete with my Mach. But i guess im incompetent...
But..
I have to agree with Mc, if you are only doing one mission at a time, i problally would prefere the Vargur to get the good loot on the way. If you do 5-6 missions in a row and then salvage, ill take the Mach.
Loki and Maelstrom, Great mission ships, but cut you down to 3-4 missions an hour.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lady Spank Vargur is very good, and yes, I have a character that has run level 4's in one before. It's easy to fit, tanks everything admirably and the DPS is really rather good.
The only thing I realised in flying it is that it's actually cheaper and slightly quicker to use a cap injected Maelstrom. In most missions it wont even need to inject and costs a fifth? of the price.
Anyone telling you to upgrade to a Machariel just to run level 4's is incompetent.
Well it does the same stuff quicker, and if it is your goal the ISK are well spend. That doesn't mean that you can't do them in a Maelstrom or other T1 BS, BC, T3, CS, HAC etc. for this matter.
I for myself more and more dislike my investment marauder 5 skill, since another BS5 is more useful and quicker to skill up, loot\salvage value drooped a lot since the introduction of the noctis and if you use them outside active tanking they are not this hot.
In PVE with halve a dozens marauders/faction BS on the field(running Incursion blitz fleets) you actually see a lot of flaws in the tanking and offensive capability(massive sigs, getting jammed every time a jammer locks you, less EHP in tanking layers, useless active tanking bonuses, terrible scan res what makes them plain useless w/o 1 sensor booster and requires 2 to compete in blitz gangs where your DPS against frigs will be close to zero if you need 30s to get them locked). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Songbird
Gallente T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:45:00 -
[25]
ok first of all - what missions?
Don't you know - incursions are the new thing- you get into a good fleet you make 100 mil an hour, you also work with others - which is the purpose of playing a multiplayer game, and you're not bored. Also get LP towards +6% hardwirings.
All 4 marauders perform well in incursions, (with the exception of golems having to concentrate on bs/cr heavy sites) and are definitely a step above the usual T1 BS.
With that being said, you can do incursions successfully in a tier 2 BC, even though a lot of people frown at the drake or the myrmidon.
I'd have to say in order of desirability (for vanguard sites- where the most money is) I'd go: t3/command ships(even though the gallente is just bad) , pirate/marauder Bs, t1 BS,Bc.
Pirate cruisers and HACs usually offer less than 500 DPS or less than the needed range or less buffer than it's advisable, but due to their superior tracking they almost never miss the targets so they're a mixed blessing.
Usually all groups take 2-3 logi ships as well, although the elitist fleets have been known to fly without.
So yah - train a marauder, stuff it with sebo, tracking/painting webbing, kill vanguard sites with a fleet... profit.
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Forando
Interstellar Cowards
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Posted - 2011.06.15 10:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grifthin ..to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
If you already have the skills to do fly the Vargur, I'd think it'll do alright. But since your primary focus is PvP, I would personally focus SP in areas in regard to PvP, instead of getting Marauders lvl 5. Just a thought, as funding PvP losses can be done fine without Marauders.
Fly safe! ;)
--- Enjoy, and fly safe.. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.15 15:15:00 -
[27]
I am a fan of getting what's get the job done and efficiently.
I have Vargur but don't use it, any game issue happens and it pops with a massive loss.
I am using up to 3 super-extra-suicide gank fit Maelstroms with a 4th ship doing remote SEBO. Even constantly locking new stuff, it dies before the next is locked. I don't even need to use hardeners nor drones, and the ships together cost less than 1 marauder hull.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Missy Sasha
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Posted - 2011.06.15 16:53:00 -
[28]
Having a tengu and a CNR and a golem and nightmare, I can tell you don't bother with a marauder. Faction BS all the way.
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Flakey Foont
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Grifthin I come to you fine gents with a question - I'm in need of some isk to feed my pvp habit. Do you think it's worth sinking the time into training for a marauder (the Vargur) to run missions with to replace pvp ships ?
Is it worth the upgrade going from baby vargur maelstrom to a vargur ?
What is your oppinion on the matter ?
Vargur is very good, and yes, I have a character that has run level 4's in one before. It's easy to fit, tanks everything admirably and the DPS is really rather good.
The only thing I realised in flying it is that it's actually cheaper and slightly quicker to use a cap injected Maelstrom. In most missions it wont even need to inject and costs a fifth? of the price.
Anyone telling you to upgrade to a Machariel just to run level 4's is incompetent.
This ^^
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Mar Goa
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Posted - 2011.06.15 20:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mar Goa on 15/06/2011 20:11:10
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