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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.14 17:00:00 -
[541]
Draco.... if you can buy a ship, with a new skin, without trading in an old ship... then you bought a new ship skin for cash yes, which is fine. But you also just bought a ship for cash.
So I defend the person you replied to. Even the 1 week trial is not ok. It's not just a ship skin we are buying for aurum if there is no trade in. I'd like to thank vile rat for his support, and I hope those minutes are get finished so if CCP misquote the CSm again we can point it out.
again a CCP dev really said that you guys were in support for selling the ship for pure Aurum for 3-4 months. that IS something to freak out about :P
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Yakov Pavlov
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Posted - 2011.06.14 17:00:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
You missed the bus on this one, we already debated this issue at length.
Let me paraphrase a tiny bit the history:
CCP wanted to add microtransactions (ie, real cash for items). CSM 5 went ballistic and said "no effing way". CCP explained to the CSM that there are people who are willing to spend more cash on their hobbies. CSM and CCP argued at length, in the end we reached a compromise and CSM 5 managed to change CCP's stance to only allow "vanity" items. ie, items that do not provide a competitive advantage, and as long as the core features are still available to all. CSM 6, when presented with the first iteration of the item store (the one available on SiSi for testing at the moment), was very happy with the items provided and their quality, with the way they were provided and with CCP's plan for the future in that regard (more in the meeting minutes that are going to get released). As far as the Ishukone Issue Scorpion was concerned (which, incidentally, we found very pretty), CCP announced that they wouldn't be able to redeem an existing scorpion with a golden one initially due to technical constraints. CSM answered we'd rather CCP wait until that technical issue was fixed. CCP asked if it was acceptable if the offer was only available for a short time (ie, a couple of weeks), we answered that, while we'd rather CCP wait, it could be acceptable.
This is the whole of it. Zinfandel misquoted us by mistake, he corrected his error, now let's all cool down a tiny bit... The end of the world is not coming.
I feel like this post should be bumped.
Good job CCP for hearing what a fairly large portion of the player base is saying again.
Slade
No I'd prefer we stick to outright insults and lunatic accusations.
Mr. Vile, I believe the you'll find the insults stem from your bungling behavior in thread and your continued inability to answer some questions .. wow, CCP must have held training during your Icelandic vacation. |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:41:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet The market won't break. Reprocessing a skinned Scorp won't be as cost-efficient as reprocessing a normal Scorp, so no one will do it.
Yes, the market breaks, even if it is one ship, even if prices eve wide don't move a bit, reprocessed or not. Productive capacity was added to the in-game world with out there being effort expended in the game to create that ship. That one ship steals a tiny bit from everyone's experience, past and future.
Feel free to respond with the typical relativist straw man.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr eve-universe.net
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:50:00 -
[544]
Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can. professional web development for the eve community |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:52:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can.
You don't ever brush your teeth, I take it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:55:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can.
Because we are trying to PREVENT this stupidity from happening. How dumb do you have to be to not realise this? ~~~
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Manda Rin
Minmatar Sexy Thoughts
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:58:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can.
Good lord. Do you go to the toilet BEFORE, or AFTER you crap your pants?
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Zakua Corbin
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:05:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Manda Rin
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can.
Good lord. Do you go to the toilet BEFORE, or AFTER you crap your pants?
LMAO, I love this place!!! Classic! |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:11:00 -
[549]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I got a break between meetings. I have 11 minutes to post again in this thread. I apologize I haven't been able to read all the posts.
I had a chance to talk to the CSM and get a clarification. I was not remembering it some parts correctly. At that time, we talked about only making the ship available for one week as a test (sold directly for Aurum) and then saving it until we had the correct trade-in or BPC functionality in the store. Then selling it normally.
The CSM didn't like the idea of selling a whole ship, but they could live with a one week test.
What I will do is take the ship off the schedule and just put it on hold for now. We are still going to make it available, but I will wait until August and see how things are going. By then I will know more about how long it will take to get either BPC or trade-in functionality into the store. At that point we can revisit the schedule for introducing the ship.
Bolded, underlined and Italicized the important bit here...
Am I just going insane or did we not hear during the Alliance Tourney Day 2 coverage when they showed the ship that it would be rolled out this summer as a straight up Aurum for item trade and not be changed to a scorp + Aurum for a Ishukone scorp until late fall????????
Maybe I need to switch brands of crack but instead I call BS on the one week statement. You never had the intention of testing it for a week... Double speak to cover the tracks! Atleast be honest and admit a mistake and move on....
Now on the other end-- Why the heck is Dust going to impact Eve sov mechanics??? Dust will allow $$$ for items/advantages that will impact how Eve is played... Not good..... RL $$$ alter our game |
Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:11:00 -
[550]
I admit that I haven't pored over this thread with the diligence of the truly hardcore EVE players, but I did read the dev's response, and it seems to me that the question was put to our democratically-elected CSM, who gave the green light to go ahead. I certainly hope, if everyone is as miffed as they seem to be (possibly rightfully, as I'm no expert), that consequences will be delivered during the next election. |
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Chris Fierce
Caldari NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:16:00 -
[551]
Edited by: Chris Fierce on 15/06/2011 00:17:01 Still just a total waste of man hours.
Lets make things look pretty, gameplay isn't important.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1425870 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489084
etc. |
mkint
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:17:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Zakua Corbin
Originally by: Manda Rin
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Last I checked you couldn't buy it yet, so why don't we save the whining until we can.
Good lord. Do you go to the toilet BEFORE, or AFTER you crap your pants?
LMAO, I love this place!!! Classic!
Is it just me, or is it embarrassing how much time the players need to sit on the proverbial ****ter? CCP needs to hire someone who's sole job is to stop the rest of the devs from doing or saying anything stupid. Usually that's management's job, but they seem to suck at it. |
Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr eve-universe.net
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:23:00 -
[553]
Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys. |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:27:00 -
[554]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/06/2011 00:32:57
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
CSM Vile alt detected.
The outrage is due in part to CCP implementing MT in a way that is contradictory to how they said they would implement it. I guess everyone is afraid that if this "test" period were allowed that CCP couldn't be arsed to change it when the time elapsed. More likely CCP would state something to the effect that the "technical barriers" were too difficult and so they would keep it a straight Aurum for ship transaction completely circumventing the Eve economy. That's why the community is rather up in arms about it. It's unfortunate that you can't see the back pedaling and double speak for what it is rather than what CCP tells you it is not. I, like most people, just don't have that much faith in corporations....for good reason.
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:30:00 -
[555]
You know I have a track record with CCP. They never read my posts. So this one is probably going to get lost in the swarms of pages but heh I gotta make my attempt. So...
Dear CCP,
You're a pretty good game company. You made a really cool game that has many little niches for the players to fill. If you want to haul there is a game mechanic for you. If you want to PvP there are many things you can do there. But frankly I can't see how this helps game play. There are many micro transaction games where I can buy in game items for money. Lord of the Rings, Silk Road, SWG has their card game that gives in game items. But I never thought I'd see Eve turn into such a big micro transaction game. I don't want to see a paint job Thorx come from the Aur Market. Clothes I could see maybe. Alliance logos yeah why not? But frankly giving away an in game item for Aur isn't the way to go. These things should be doable from the player base. And not allowing the players to do it themselves but have to get these items from the Aur market hurts the in game market.
No matter how you look at this it's going to hurt the market. What do I want to buy for a mission? A thorax? Or a thorax with a cool paint job? Both do the same stuff. So thorax with a paint job. That's kinda what navy ships are. Though they get 1 more slot and slightly better stats they're pretty much ships with a paint job. At least there you could earn it and sell it. But Aur ships have no work put into them. Plex = better stuff = micro transactions.
I hate micro transaction games. They're not fun. It's nickel and dimeing people in the strictest sense. Let the store give things like clothes and logos. Heck even let the store sell a flat out pain job for a ship you have. But don't sell us an item in the store. It hurts us and makes the game worse.
Sincerly,
Acac Sunflyier~
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:31:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
If by short you mean three to 4 months. then yes.
Also they changed it to 1-2 weeks.
And it lets you buy ships in 0.0 buy just docking in any station, the hell with the regional economy!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:31:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother
You didn't. Try reading the thread. It will explain everything.
Quote: read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP.
Now read the part where it wasn't. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tilt3d
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:32:00 -
[558]
Can you say SWG?
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Linda Shadowborn
Gallente Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:32:00 -
[559]
Originally by: MotherMoon
you know, on one hand i was kinda kidding. But at least we read threads before we post on them, even if we have to read 14 pages 1st.
Well... since the current communications from CCP and the CSM is kind of a joke... how much worse could it be? ... no wait.. dont answer that
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:35:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
I think CCP should implement an I.Q. test in an effort to improve the quality of these forums. ~~~
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Distortus
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:39:00 -
[561]
Dear CCP, we pay our monthly subscription to not have a game with this mickymouse MT bull****.
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:40:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Tilt3d Can you say LoTORO or Silk Road or League of Legends?
Fixed for ya
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:42:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
You probably shouldn't bother. Really. You don't seem to understand what the word "economy" means. The other times CCP has done something stupid like this, in a matter of hours trillions of isk of assets were created out of thin air. We don't know the pricing on this yet, but over the course of a few days it could completely destroy both PLEX and mineral markets in such a dramatic way that it would take years to recover. Imagine building a fleet of titans without needing to worry about mining minerals or hauling minerals from highsec. Just a matter of docking up in your outpost, pushing button, receiving bacon. PLEX prices would skyrocket, because a titan's worth of plex could be hauled in a frig. Isk would flood the market from insurance claims, making prices on everything skyrocket. There would be a direct $ -> isk conversion rate not affected by supply and demand at all. It would not matter how many pathways there are from $ -> NPC -> isk, even one, even for just a couple hours, will completely destroy the economy WHEN (not if) the players abuse it.
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Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:43:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/06/2011 00:32:57
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
CSM Vile alt detected.
myea, no, sorry, not an alt, just a newb.
The outrage is due in part to CCP implementing MT in a way that is contradictory to how they said they would implement it. I guess everyone is afraid that if this "test" period were allowed that CCP couldn't be arsed to change it when the time elapsed.
From a developer point of view this is more a quick and dirty way to implement this rather than trying to screw the in-game economy. They have to make some major changes to the database to implement different skins for every ship as to not get different iterations for every ship clogging up the db. (have you seen the static data dump, it's a mess!) So if anything this should be a "don't release this **** until it is completely functional" thread
More likely CCP would state something to the effect that the "technical barriers" were too difficult and so they would keep it a straight Aurum for ship transaction completely circumventing the Eve economy. That's why the community is rather up in arms about it. It's unfortunate that you can't see the back pedaling and double speak for what it is rather than what CCP tells you it is not. I, like most people, just don't have that much faith in corporations....for good reason.
So let me play devil's advocate here, instead of people buying plex and paying YOU for that ship, they pay CCP for that ship, what entitles you to that money over CCP? Is it perfect? hell no, is it fair? no, it certainly isn't. My 2 ct: ships get more expensive in eve as the indy tries to make ends meat. BUT with newbs buying big shiny ships for isk, loot will be bigger as well. Not to mention the new blood this will attract, because let's face it, it will seriously take the learning curve down, newer players will find it easier to get into eve.
In the end though, let's wait and see what happens, no need to ***** and moan before anything is truly screwed up.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:47:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze So if anything this should be a "don't release this **** until it is completely functional" thread
Guess what? It is.
Quote: So let me play devil's advocate here, instead of people buying plex and paying YOU for that ship, they pay CCP for that ship, what entitles you to that money over CCP?
What money? CCP gets their money either way, and the other player never gets any money either way. The problem here is that it circumvents the entire in-game market ù the core mechanism of the game. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
mkint
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:47:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze
Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/06/2011 00:32:57
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze Why do I even bother, bloody forum tards. Get your head out of your ass and read the part where CCP mentions the 'short term sale' of A SINGLE SHIP. To be changed to ship exchange. Bloody panic monkeys.
CSM Vile alt detected.
myea, no, sorry, not an alt, just a newb.
The outrage is due in part to CCP implementing MT in a way that is contradictory to how they said they would implement it. I guess everyone is afraid that if this "test" period were allowed that CCP couldn't be arsed to change it when the time elapsed.
From a developer point of view this is more a quick and dirty way to implement this rather than trying to screw the in-game economy. They have to make some major changes to the database to implement different skins for every ship as to not get different iterations for every ship clogging up the db. (have you seen the static data dump, it's a mess!) So if anything this should be a "don't release this **** until it is completely functional" thread
More likely CCP would state something to the effect that the "technical barriers" were too difficult and so they would keep it a straight Aurum for ship transaction completely circumventing the Eve economy. That's why the community is rather up in arms about it. It's unfortunate that you can't see the back pedaling and double speak for what it is rather than what CCP tells you it is not. I, like most people, just don't have that much faith in corporations....for good reason.
So let me play devil's advocate here, instead of people buying plex and paying YOU for that ship, they pay CCP for that ship, what entitles you to that money over CCP? Is it perfect? hell no, is it fair? no, it certainly isn't. My 2 ct: ships get more expensive in eve as the indy tries to make ends meat. BUT with newbs buying big shiny ships for isk, loot will be bigger as well. Not to mention the new blood this will attract, because let's face it, it will seriously take the learning curve down, newer players will find it easier to get into eve.
In the end though, let's wait and see what happens, no need to ***** and moan before anything is truly screwed up.
^^Dumb people who failed highschool economics class shouldn't be allowed to post in threads about economics.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:55:00 -
[567]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/06/2011 00:59:46 Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/06/2011 00:58:15
Originally by: Erik CoolBreeze
From a developer point of view this is more a quick and dirty way to implement this rather than trying to screw the in-game economy. They have to make some major changes to the database to implement different skins for every ship as to not get different iterations for every ship clogging up the db. (have you seen the static data dump, it's a mess!) So if anything this should be a "don't release this **** until it is completely functional" thread
What exactly are they testing?
I don't think you and I are qualified to know what exactly they're testing. They could be testing functionality just as much as they're wanting to test profitability of the new MT profit model or the community's complacency for direct cash for magic stuff. It certainly would be easier on CCP if you gave them cash and they gave you magic stuff without having to develop the mechanics to require a ship from the Eve economy with which to complete the transaction. If you think about it, what do they have to develop? They already have a working model for such transactions. It's called the LP store. So, all this "technical barrier" BS is rather moot from my perspective.
Quote:
So let me play devil's advocate here, instead of people buying plex and paying YOU for that ship, they pay CCP for that ship, what entitles you to that money over CCP? Is it perfect? hell no, is it fair? no, it certainly isn't. My 2 ct: ships get more expensive in eve as the indy tries to make ends meat. BUT with newbs buying big shiny ships for isk, loot will be bigger as well. Not to mention the new blood this will attract, because let's face it, it will seriously take the learning curve down, newer players will find it easier to get into eve.
In the end though, let's wait and see what happens, no need to ***** and moan before anything is truly screwed up.
You lack a certain understanding of what is going on here. CCP is going to get their pound of flesh if the Isukone Scorpion requires a ship + aurum or only aurum. If it's the latter (only aurum) then it undercuts those individuals in game working hard to produce scorpions and sell them for a profit. It also undercuts the price of minerals since eventually that Isukone Scorpion would revert to its natural state of composite minerals. You can think of a straight aurum for magic stuff trade as a big FU to the rest of the community.
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Alivyre Kanjus
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Posted - 2011.06.15 00:57:00 -
[568]
Intensely stupid and grievous error on the part of CCP. Do not implement microtransactions for ships. Didn't we make this ABUNDANTLY CLEAR?
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Nadia Ruze
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Posted - 2011.06.15 01:07:00 -
[569]
Seems to me that it's not so much the devs that caused this problem, but our own CSM's.
Maybe we should take the electing of these representatives a little more serious, and not just assume that they are useless and just a media-gambit.
Course, maybe the playerbase likes having meta-gaming nulsec alliances, who essentially force industry players to work at their beck and call (or hire out RMT chinese to do the work for them), representing what makes EvE.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.15 01:08:00 -
[570]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/06/2011 01:12:14 Ahh, I see the debate still rages... and even got some Dev clarification.
Looks like they decided to shelve things until later (unless I missed something, I haven't truthfully had time to catch up again).
That's fine with me, although they could have done a number of other things.
1: They could have ensured that the Ishukone Scorp refines for exactly the same amount of minerals as a normal Scorp, and the insurance payout is exactly the same.
2: They could have made the ship available only in a few select Ishukone stations.
3: They could have made sure that it was far more expensive to buy the ship for AURUM and reprocess it than it would be to simply buy the minerals off of the market (or rather to buy PLEX>Sell for ISK>Buy minerals.
With these simple steps they could have ensured that the test wasn't abused, as to do so would be expensive and offer no in-game advantage what so ever.
Still, Scorp sellers "might" have lost a few sales, and part of the community would still feel that their trust had been somehow violated, so it's just as well that it's not going to happen.
I think it's time to relax a bit. You've let your opinion be known, and it was acknowledged.
Edit: Yes, I've heard the arguments that it would "break" the chain of supply and demand in EVE. My point is that with those steps above the only people that would actually buy the ships are people looking for a novelty item, there would be no incentive at all to start trying to milk it into something that it was not meant to be.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
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