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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 17:39:43 Did you get bought by EA by chance?
Please CCP explain me this:
1) I PAY a DNS server 2) I PAY a commercial web hosting 3) I created 1 free forever and for everyone application called NEISIN. 4) I am maintaining a former abandoned application that CCP API changes broke: EvE Income Analyzer - free for everyone and open source. 5) I host the Fanfest 2011 CCP CEO showcased PLEX for <xxx> charity *with zero gain, zero euros, ZERO ISK* and I have to spend 2 working days a month to upkeep it and its balance sheets. 6) I host the Public Audit Records (a monumental task, takes days a month), an archive of EvE investments and audits. For free, for all. Because CCP forums suck so I had to reinvent the wheel.
Now, since the website has Google ads and a Donate Paypal button for my oh-so-huge traffic of 500 visitors a month, I am meant to pay? When someone will bother clicking something I might make 20 euros a year.
ARE YOU JOKING WITH THIS?
Ask me $99 and I send you an $500 month invoice for all the work I am tirelessy doing since half a year to make YOUR game experience better for the whole EvE community.
I am sorry but I and probably Chribba are profusing work already and in change of nothing.
This is not acceptable, I will just shutdown everything and let the affected players give their feedback to you.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:46:00 -
[2]
This is exploitable like crazy.
You just MADE THE DAY FOR RMTERS.
"HI, I made this 10 lines API app, now pay me $100 per copy, I pay CCP a $99 license a year so I am LEGAL".
And on Sykpe: "Ok, here's your RMTed money dude #457, this CCP idea was BRILLIANT!"
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:26:00 -
[3]
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
Here's HOW MUCH I make for providing the six and totally free and open to everyone services on my self paid hosted website.
A WHOLE 0.25 Ç in 6 months!!!
Anyone understand why this initiative is completely ret****ed?
Moreover I spent weeks making the graphics inspired to EvE despite the website is for my other MMOs as well. I will have to tear everything down and suffer labour derived damage.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: woddel
Originally by: Joe SMASH As a show of force that most 3rd party devs do NOT like this rule. I think we should figure out a day where all Eve Online 3rd party sites get taken offline. This will show the community what it will be like if CCP gets this in place. For those 24 hours, the Eve community (voted best in the MMO world!) goes quiet and CCP will (hopefully) begin to see their many mistakes with this new set of rules.
i'm in with www.eve-commander.com and agents.eve-commander.com...
--------------------------
I am in with the following:
Here is the list of open to everyone services that I will have to shutdown
EvE Emergency Trust PLEX Charity initiative when RL disasters happen (featured on Fanfest 2011 videos, donated > $4000 to Japanese) Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Technical Analysis (finance) Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Public Audits Archive (Market Discussion investments)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Public Investmens Records (Market Discussion investments)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Charting Service Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
NEISIN free app Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Income Analyzer (trading / sales analysis graphs and statistics)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tippia and to further build on that, the Apple dev community builds on a long history of (relatively) high-priced OSX shareware. Compared to the Windows side, there is an almost negligible amount of freeware and long-trial/nagware paid for apps ù everyone does a 14days, then pay up kind of shareware instead. So these devs have long since learned how to recoup their costs and how to stay afloat even with Apple's (inevitable) cut.
What you're trying to do is essentially an immediate jump from the Windows freeware model to the Apple AppStore model, while having none of the clout or market size of either.
TLDR: Apple CAN ask developers for a license because:
- Apple actually HAS the market for them. How many would pay for Eve Income Analyzer? With 44 downloads (see counter) I am certainly going to be RICH! - Apple DELIVERS while CCP overpromises. - Apple GIVES SDK and tools, CCP added ZERO.
------------------
Also what baffles me: free open source is DEAD in EvE.
- If you host it on SourgeForge, then money is being made therefore the weakest link (guess who?) has to pay $99.
- If you host on any free blog or website they always come with Google ads (to stay free you know) and then someone has to pay $99. Who? Blogspot? Noooo, the poor lolEvEdev!
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:27:00 -
[6]
Here it comes!
Have a good day, CCP.
You thrashed 6 months of my work.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 01:04:00
Originally by: Arec Bardwin Edited by: Arec Bardwin on 16/06/2011 00:57:27
Originally by: Naryamn
I propose every single 3th party application to bring them offline asap and put a protest page about this proposal in their place for the time its needed.
This would be hilarious.
Done!
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:56:00 -
[8]
Quote:
This hiccup is not about a legal slippery slope.
It's also a slippery slope.
I wasted 6 months and hundreds of euros to setup my free website, free applications and services.
I demand idemnification. If they want $99 off me I want at least $10,000 for assets and moral damage.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Casod Sutherland CCP, have you thought about whether your "non-commercial clickwrap agreement" will be compatible with FOSS licenses like the GPL? Because if it isn't, popular third-party applications that use GPL code, like EveMon and Pyfa, will be in a lot of trouble and may well have to shut down.
I won't claim to be an expert, but first impression is that there shouldn't be much problems with it for most things. It doesn't seem like they're restricting developers' rights to distribute or modify the code they create, only how you use them to access CCP-provided data, but I'm not entirely sure how the GPL handles those kinds of inherited dependenciesà
If you split it into a "framework" and "content" kind of model, it sounds like it should be pretty safe: you are free to GPL the framework; if you want to feed that framwork with CCP content, you need to get a CCP license. But the question is, if the framework is of no use without that data ù i.e. you're creating GPL code that can only be used with the RPC and data provided by CCP ù how does the GPL handle that? After all, you're not restricting the distribution or code, which is what the GPL is primarily worried about, but the code serves no purpose for people who aren't licensed to draw on CCP-owned data.
I would love to see Richard Stallman's (Free Software Foundation and GPL inventor) opinion about this whole mess. Knowing how combative he is, he'd be surely happy to raise an international stink about this.
It's not like it takes a lot to send him an email.
Originally by: Mara Rinn
One day it will become policy for CCP to run all customer facing material through CSM before releasing dev blogs or floating trial balloons. Until then, we're doomed to face many more SNAFUs, explode-in-face trail balloons and assorted idiocy.
Not going to happen. CCP always took the CSM as the lesser evil, the high ranks hate having to deal with the CSM. It's why they bypass CSM for the things that count. Mara, it's not the last CCP employee who decided to bypass CSM, it's people in position to command it. You know who they are.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.16 10:28:00 -
[9]
Quote: What next, charging licensing for making a PVP video?
Videos must already pay, it's not "next".
They are hosted on ads sponsored websites. All of them. This makes such CCP IP using contents a commercial vehicle, therefore subject to commercial license of $99.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Hello all.
At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say Iæm impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.
There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.
There was no misunderstandment.
You tried to get the low hanging fruit by throwing a pomato on a wall to see where the spurts would land. Done several times so it's not new.
If all were fine, you'd proceed with the new scheme at once, else you post some corporate "sorry we will iterate", which is what is happening.
The worrysome part is that you even published that (posthumous) label "draft", ie someone in CCP really believed in that stuff.
I am sorry but the iterations have to happen in your CCP ranks too, not just on the blog.
It HURTS US SUPPORTERS to see CCP go down like this, didn't you know? It's heart shattering to see these last months seeing you embarking in EA / Sony loan shark mode.
You are meant to be different. And better. Don't betray us.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 20:36:00 -
[11]
Quote: That is not the actual focus of that, think more of the lines of preserving copyrights, making sure that people do not run off with what CCP has made for things not related to EVE, and such
Excuse me, how is this different than the already in place checks that CCP demands to do on websites?
Quote:
Good point on control. If control means botting sites go down I want more of it
Excuse me, why can't I just send CCP a copy of my driving license and a bill, like every other company including banks accept to do?
I am quite sure that if a bank is fine, then a gaming company should not be stricter.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: BeanBagKing I'm sure it's been posted, but in case someone missed it, here is the EN24 write up,
Hot news:
CCP wants to tax Dotlan.
but
EvE official website instead of making their own costly infrastructure has delegated on Dotlan the display of the sovereignty maps.
Example:
Link
This means they are consuming Dotlan service to avoid coding a map by themselves but still going to impose Dotlan a tax.
Funky, eh?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 10:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/06/2011 10:30:42
Originally by: Gnulpie
LET'S MAKE SUGGESTIONS HOW TO DO IT BETTER!
Here they are.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dynamix Boon
Originally by: CCP Zulu The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).
While I understand the desire to protect the IP; the value of the IP is dependant on the community that makes Eve the game it is. Unlike most MMOs, the content in Eve is hugely player driven.
TLDR
CCP, WE are your IP, protect us
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:21:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 12:22:03
Originally by: General LongkillLets see here...
I pay subscription to play said product.... I help test up coming expansions while paying you and you NOT paying me... I develop app to HELP the eve players better UNDERSTAND and play your game to its FULLEST potential... You want me to PAY YOU to do YOUR job...
How the **** do you rationalize that???
How?
Simple. Just read this newest devblog.
With a timing that really tells you how they rationalized that, they ask us to rewrite a piece of the API fetching mechanism of our apps. With 3 days of notice.
Because hey, we have to pay $99 for the work we do AND HTFU and hurry up, no?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.18 21:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 21:23:45 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 21:20:48
Originally by: Dyner
Originally by: Relaxedtrader
If you wish to tax certain 3rd party applications, such as gambling sites, or sites where isk profit is made as a result of entertainment value provided, that would be acceptable in my view.
So...instead of killing the apps you kill the contests and events?
EVE Radio's contest come to mind; I may not enter them but it's still fun to watch.
There's even more than this. Some players went to great lenghts in order to create the richest experience in the game, beyond EvE. The Market Discussion forum has some of the most high meta-gaming community, we issue bonds, loans, finance projects... all of this on the forum and external websites.
In my case in particular I am an auditor. My job is purely community oriented and is about checking people, corporations, alliances and create detailed reports about their financial health, their credibility, their skills. Auditors are a sort of Moody's or Standard & Poors, people choose to invest or not also based on our reports.
Here's an example: Linkage
As you may see, it's very colorful, with graphs, tables and lots of other stuff. And this is just the nerfed EvE forum version! On my website I host all the audits and investments available with a search engine and of course for free. Everyone can search the past investments to know how they performed, if a certain guy was trustworthy or not and so on.
Now, in order to create ANY audit I need to use:
- 8 to 12 EvE free or ISK paid software that use the EvE API. - 1 external website totally paid by me including DNS, web hosting, certificates (150 euros a year). - I am paid in ISK, usually from 30 to 80M (sometimes more) for a work of several hours. In fact it's a community profession, made to HELP the community not to become rich. Mining is often more lucrative. - Many times I also hold collateral or act as third party (basically the same profession of Chribba).
Now please tell me how I will EVER be able to keep being an auditor (after many others in the past before me) since I will:
- Pay for 8-12 now commercial EvE softwares. - Still pay 150 euros or so for my website (in fact I put some ads on it). - Also pay $99 for my website.
I am not *that* poor but I just cannot justify my family spending hundreds of euros for an audit that in average nets me 30-80M ISK (10 audits a year).
Are we meant to just DELETE professions at once like this? I am ashamed, after all these years of auditors, we have to be eradicated by a stupid fee?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.18 21:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 21:36:00 Another initiative that will be ERADICATED: charities.
Since I am decently trusted, I created a corporation that exists exclusively to collect ISK and PLEXes during the years and to forward them to CCP when an emergency relief campaign is started.
For the PLEX for Japan CCP emergency relief campaign I collected over 91B = more than RL $4000.
Sure, it's not going to rebuild the whole Japan but it's still an useful amount. In fact CCP CEO Hilmar showcased me and another charity (I am not alone) at Fanfest 2011.
With the license? All of this is DEAD, RIP.
In fact it's hosted on my website (described in the previous post) on my expense and it costed several weeks to setup all the pages and graphics. I don't earn a single ISK on this, sometimes I actually donate myself to it. I also pay the NPC fees.
Plus the promo video for the charity is also on Youtube. A video that costed me a RL week to make.
Why?
TO PROMOTE CCP.
And now I have to also pay $99 for a charity that favors CCP (PLEX donations) and even for posting on Youtube to promote CCP??????
Where is the world going to go?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.19 22:57:00 -
[18]
Quote:
This is aimed at applications that do charge, like the Strategic Maps (which are great) and charge real money and EVE Commander that charges ISK. If you're going to create a commercial app and make money or isk (since isk translates into money these days by converting them to plex)
This is just terrible. As former SW developer who worked with similar licenses, this makes no sense at all.
If I am in for the money, I can't care the less to get some lame PLEX.
Even in case I get paid, if I setup a business I need to cover 200+ euros of website cost a year, plus I will have to start a company (law enforces this) for 500 euros and expect > 40% of the income to be taxed plus > 700 euros every 3 months forcibly paid for pension.
Now let's guess how much of this you do by selling some lame "app" for such a ridicolously small playerbase made of students and PLEX grinders (= well different than rich Apple rich fat turkey customer base).
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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