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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:42:00 -
[1]
So we now have:
*subscription fee *character cosmetics (optional) *killboards (yep you are going to have to start paying for those, thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *character monitoring (thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *character planning (thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *ship fitting (thanks a lot Roc Wieler)
Yep that's right, CCP decided to license out API because Roc Wieler (the iClone ****) made a big stink about it. So EVERY developer has to get a license weather its paid or free, they have to register it. Any existing tools out there are likely to be apps you have to pay to use, like Evemon, EFT, Eve Development Network (most of us use this kill board framework).
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:45:00 -
[2]
Yeah, I'm... a little worried about this particular change. More than a little. :S -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Yoshitaka Moromuo
Distant Light Galactic Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Yo****aka Moromuo on 15/06/2011 17:46:50
Originally by: Sig Sour So we now have:
*subscription fee *character cosmetics (optional) *killboards (yep you are going to have to start paying for those, thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *character monitoring (thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *character planning (thanks a lot Roc Wieler) *ship fitting (thanks a lot Roc Wieler)
Yep that's right, CCP decided to license out API because Roc Wieler (the iClone ****) made a big stink about it. So EVERY developer has to get a license weather its paid or free, they have to register it. Any existing tools out there are likely to be apps you have to pay to use, like Evemon, EFT, Eve Development Network (most of us use this kill board framework).
0/10: Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Full details haven't been released yet, only a single devblog. Try saying the sky's falling when the actual terms come out.
Also, get it right. Roc Weiler developed Capsuleer, along with Pyjama Sam.
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Orlacc
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:47:00 -
[4]
Too many Chicken Littles
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:48:00 -
[5]
Let's hear it for the soon to be 'walmart' of EVE services super site that sucks up all the functionality of those applications, and sites we use. For who else would be better suited to crush the various developers and reap the rewards of being a one stop site for all your EVE needs at low low prices.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:55:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 15/06/2011 17:56:19
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo 0/10: Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Full details haven't been released yet, only a single devblog. Try saying the sky's falling when the actual terms come out.
if you wait until this sort of change is finalized and deployed then it is already too late to change CCP's mind... (and the "agile" methodology of CCP means it won't be finalized until it is deployed).
Do you think the Scorpion for AUR thing could have been prevented if we had waited until the Scorpion shows up in the MT store on TQ?
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Orlacc Too many Chicken Littles
Use your head. When you HAVE TO get a licence to use the API, are you going to tick the box that says "I want to be paid for my efforts" or the box that says "I want to keep working for free"?
Enjoy Battle Clinic, this is great news for them. Other killboards are going to be paid or die off.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:58:00 -
[8]
Screw the Eve API then.
Dump all consumption of it. Dead in the water.
I just started consuming the EVE API. Sod it if they will charge for it.
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Yoshitaka Moromuo
Distant Light Galactic Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 15/06/2011 17:56:19
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo 0/10: Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Full details haven't been released yet, only a single devblog. Try saying the sky's falling when the actual terms come out.
if you wait until this sort of change is finalized and deployed then it is already too late to change CCP's mind... (and the "agile" methodology of CCP means it won't be finalized until it is deployed).
Do you think the Scorpion for AUR thing could have been prevented if we had waited until the Scorpion shows up in the MT store on TQ?
Point is, he's seeding FUD over details that aren't finalized or properly expanded upon. Now, were he asking questions about it, challenging CCP to expand on the terms or clarify them in cases, then I'd understand.
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:59:00 -
[10]
EVE is going in the wrong direction, **** this ****.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
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Sky Gypsy
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:00:00 -
[11]
Oh fer pities sake! you guys complain about anything new and most things old. Why any of you still play I have no idea.
Point One-This is not set in stone yet.
Point Two-It is the developers being charged not you, and $100 a year or so should be nothing, some of you pay that much for two months of running multiple accounts.
Point Three-anyone with a API type website related to Eve that isn't making better than that on Ads is doing it wrong.
Eve is a business, something that many players of online games tend to forget. With Dust and Micro transactions and now this. It would appear to me that Eve is attempting to diversify their revenue stream. Any business that doesn't attempt that is bound to fail. Why the heck do you think the Walmarts and Bestbuys of the world are so successful? Because they sell everything and are constantly looking for new markets. Heck my grocery store sells pet health care insurance now. It's adapt or die in business, Eve is adapting, would you rather it just went away?
Ok business 101 rant mode off, I need to go shoot something. Live Free, Fight Well |
Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:00:00 -
[12]
What does that mean for cheap bastards like myself?
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo Point is, he's seeding FUD over details that aren't finalized or properly expanded upon. Now, were he asking questions about it, challenging CCP to expand on the terms or clarify them in cases, then I'd understand.
People who are not morons don't need every little detail spelled out to them and explained 3 ways.
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Jotaro Bene
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sky Gypsy ... Heck my grocery store sells pet health care insurance now.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Miilla on 15/06/2011 18:03:56
Originally by: Sky Gypsy Oh fer pities sake! you guys complain about anything new and most things old. Why any of you still play I have no idea.
Point One-This is not set in stone yet.
Point Two-It is the developers being charged not you, and $100 a year or so should be nothing, some of you pay that much for two months of running multiple accounts.
Point Three-anyone with a API type website related to Eve that isn't making better than that on Ads is doing it wrong.
Eve is a business, something that many players of online games tend to forget. With Dust and Micro transactions and now this. It would appear to me that Eve is attempting to diversify their revenue stream. Any business that doesn't attempt that is bound to fail. Why the heck do you think the Walmarts and Bestbuys of the world are so successful? Because they sell everything and are constantly looking for new markets. Heck my grocery store sells pet health care insurance now. It's adapt or die in business, Eve is adapting, would you rather it just went away?
Ok business 101 rant mode off, I need to go shoot something.
I am a developer consuming the EVE API.
I will NOT pay for it.
Sod it.
I will now slow up my development plan for it.
I make no money from what I write, Why should I pay for it? We all lose in this case.
Battleclinic and big name sites will be the only ones that survive.
Small developers will end up stop building Eve API apps.
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Yoshitaka Moromuo
Distant Light Galactic Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo Point is, he's seeding FUD over details that aren't finalized or properly expanded upon. Now, were he asking questions about it, challenging CCP to expand on the terms or clarify them in cases, then I'd understand.
People who are not morons don't need every little detail spelled out to them and explained 3 ways.
Actually, let's get a few things straight.
1: Calling people morons isn't going to get you well-liked by the moderation team, trust me. 2: Yes, they need to clarify exactly what types of programs would require which type of license. This would include detailing what criteria needs to be met to necessitate the commercial license over the non-commercial one.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Silas Cooper EVE is going in the wrong direction, **** this ****.
^this
1. Barbie avatars with no racial connotations. 2. Buying ships for $$$$. 3. Defenseless against DDOS attacks. 4. doing away with hanger view, forced to use CQ when changing ships.
WTF is going on?
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:06:00 -
[18]
Can somebody suggest a new MMO to try out please?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:07:00 -
[19]
CCP is in the proccess of making a horrific money grab.
-they sell isk for cash now(by means of "price stabiility." -they sell ships for cash now(by means of Arum.) -they took away many avatar features with Incarna and will now charge. -apparently they are going to charge for API use
And of course they still charge us subscriptions.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Markus El'kar
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license
READING COMPREHENSION, TRAIN IT
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo 1: Calling people morons isn't going to get you well-liked by the moderation team, trust me. 2: Yes, they need to clarify exactly what types of programs would require which type of license. This would include detailing what criteria needs to be met to necessitate the commercial license over the non-commercial one.
1. So you need it spelled out and explained 3 ways... sorry I offended you. 2. Its pretty clear actually. I guess we can refer to 1 here.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Miilla on 15/06/2011 18:12:01
Originally by: Markus El'kar
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license
READING COMPREHENSION, TRAIN IT
Free LICENSE, for now.
What do we have to REGISTER in order to get a LICENSE?
We CONSUME the API, but the Application IP is OURS, what does that mean for OUR application that CCP did NOT write?
What if we do not "publish" the app (personal, or incubation apps), do we still need a license, most likely, again the terms could be the deal breaker.
Big issues.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Miilla I just started consuming the EVE API. Sod it if they will charge for it.
Not quite. They charge the person that wants to be able to get any income for his 3rd part app a fee of 99$/year to allow his 3rd party site/app/whatever to access the EVE API.
It's basically a case of good news, bad news. Plus some neutral news.
The GOOD news is that you are now allowed to sell whatever app you make for CASH. Before, you were risking legal action. Not that it would matter much, but still. Also, you could at least theoretically have gotten at least a "cease-and-desist" and get your site "blacklisted" by CCP, rendering it useless in case you failed to comply.
The so-called "neutral" news is that as long as you don't ask for anything for your app (and just provide it as total freeware) you don't have to pay anything. And, of course, the end-user doesn't really HAVE to pay anything. It's not like 99$ distributed over god knows how many potential users would amount to much of a difference. Not enough to start asking for cash for apps that were already free anyway.
The BAD news is that you can no longer afford to keep afloat a site that hosts your 3rd party app download (or the site itself being the 3rd part app) from, say, ad revenue or voluntary cash donations without paying 99$/year to CCP first (which is actually a bit less than hosting would probably cost you anyway). There's actually even a tiny sliver a good news in that bad news, since it ever so slightly raises the barrier on malicious stuff happening (the only accepted payment methods being traceable back to a person, thus providing CCP with a person to actually sue in case something fishy happens). Of course, some people will still use "unauthorized//unlicensed" apps and risk getting screwed over by an embedded virus or somesuch, but it's not like you can stop THAT one from happening. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:14:00 -
[24]
I especially like the bit:
Quote: The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative and more importantly, we need to charge a fee so that we get proper non-spoofable information about the applicant. We have kept the fee as low as possible and hope that the $99 fee is low enough to not dissuade serious developers from participating in the program.
Seems to me that there is a lot of lower numbers between 0.01 and 99. Might be some legal fees to establish it but at the cost of stopping existing and future apps .. not such a clever plan.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Markus El'kar READING COMPREHENSION, TRAIN IT
AWARENESS OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR, TRAIN IT
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Rykuss
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch forced to use CQ when changing ships.
There's still no support on sisi for ships with multiple hangars in the menu. Pretty much have to open the ship hangar, find your ship and use the right-click menu. Meaning yet another box cluttering up the screen. Oh and the pretty new turrets still don't function correctly, less than a week from launch. Can we has a t-shirt that says "I survived teh lulz" for our avatars please? I'd totally effin' buy that!
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Miilla I just started consuming the EVE API. Sod it if they will charge for it.
Not quite. They charge the person that wants to be able to get any income for his 3rd part app a fee of 99$/year to allow his 3rd party site/app/whatever to access the EVE API.
It's basically a case of good news, bad news. Plus some neutral news.
The GOOD news is that you are now allowed to sell whatever app you make for CASH. Before, you were risking legal action. Not that it would matter much, but still. Also, you could at least theoretically have gotten at least a "cease-and-desist" and get your site "blacklisted" by CCP, rendering it useless in case you failed to comply.
The so-called "neutral" news is that as long as you don't ask for anything for your app (and just provide it as total freeware) you don't have to pay anything. And, of course, the end-user doesn't really HAVE to pay anything. It's not like 99$ distributed over god knows how many potential users would amount to much of a difference. Not enough to start asking for cash for apps that were already free anyway.
The BAD news is that you can no longer afford to keep afloat a site that hosts your 3rd party app download (or the site itself being the 3rd part app) from, say, ad revenue or voluntary cash donations without paying 99$/year to CCP first (which is actually a bit less than hosting would probably cost you anyway). There's actually even a tiny sliver a good news in that bad news, since it ever so slightly raises the barrier on malicious stuff happening (the only accepted payment methods being traceable back to a person, thus providing CCP with a person to actually sue in case something fishy happens). Of course, some people will still use "unauthorized//unlicensed" apps and risk getting screwed over by an embedded virus or somesuch, but it's not like you can stop THAT one from happening.
What IF i write a library, (for example lets say a WCF wrapper around the REST API with a REST discovery proxy generator), that is consumed or used in a commercial APP, but you do not charge for that library/runtime, and so on and so on.
This is good for CCP dealing with the big boys.
More concern for the small free devs.
Also, what you will probably find is theft or pirate use of dev license keys. Easy obtained from assemblies, most will be written in .net.
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Matalok
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akita T
Not quite. They charge the person that wants to be able to get any income for his 3rd part app a fee of 99$/year to allow his 3rd party site/app/whatever to access the EVE API.
Depending on the scope of their donations clause, a lot of people will be ****ed over by this. TEST gets donations and GTC referrals to help with hosting of the KB/EVE API validated forums/API powered TS3, is that profiting on EVE IP?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/06/2011 18:27:13
The real question however is... ...will you be able to pay the fees as, say, 5$ cash (for their so-called "personal identification" purposes) and all the rest in PLEX ?!?
If yes, it wouldn't be such a big deal, since raising enough ISK donations to pay for, what is it, 5-6 PLEX, that shouldn't be such a big problem, and I doubt you'd dissuade any even remotely half-serious person by having them pay 5$. Because, let's face it, 99$ is not exactly pocket change, and for somebody doing it for just enough ad revenue to break even with hosting, it could be a problem.
On the other hand, you could get some serious commitment out of people involved in "building" decent 3rd part apps, since now they would be able to get paid. Just imagine if even 10% of EVE players would consider buying your "killer EVE app" for, say, 5$ - that's 150+k right there. Sounds like serious incentive to do a good job. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 -
[30]
Wow - Eve is filled with a bunch of broke capitalists. Who'da thunk that??
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