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Phoibos
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Posted - 2003.07.02 02:07:00 -
[1]
I just went into the station and bought up 10 skills, to be trained first to lvl1 all of them. Isn't this a little to easy to get skills? Sure some of them take quit some time to train and only opens up after some are finished at lvl5.
But still these are only like 20% of the skills right now. The rest you can buy very fast, so it doesn't feel any fun or special when you get them. Most other games you yell horray when you get a new skill, at least in the first months it is not like this in the game. I think it would be more interesting if you had to do something challenging for some of the skills.
/Phoibos
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2003.07.02 02:36:00 -
[2]
i think it's fine the way it is.
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Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.07.02 03:06:00 -
[3]
well Phoibos, one can find other skills than those that are availiable on the market, those are rare pirate drops, go out and hunt if you wanna find them ;p
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.02 10:52:00 -
[4]
7 and a half days to train drones 5 is not my definition of easy. Especially when I'm trying to squeeze in other skills too.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.07.02 10:59:00 -
[5]
Phoibos: Yes I agree that skill acquisition is far too easy. Training may be time consuming but it certainly isn't challenging and as you so rightly stated EVE does lack that 'buzz' many other games provide upon task completion or the heralding of a new ability.
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/07/2003 11:10:24
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.07.02 11:37:00 -
[6]
Agreed.
It makes no sense on a story / history aspect of the eve universe either.
If it was so easy to make money and "skill up", there would not be 4 distinct races... just one big civilisation that has adopted the best aspects of each race.
There should be more distinction between races, eg, the MOA is only available to caldari except in extreme circumstances, only minmatar have access to special speed boosters and advanced evasion skills, only gallente have the skill to use more than 5 drones, etc... you get the picture.
I look back over the last few days, and i have bought over 20 skills, most of those where multiple copies of each of the races frigate skill. now our entire corp can fly any frigate from any race... just seems a bit unrealistic... (i know its a game!, but race based benefits would be good in my opinion)
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~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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ULTIMA TREX
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Posted - 2003.07.02 11:39:00 -
[7]
Getting skills takes both sides of the argument. Most of the skills buyable on the market are the prime skills and are required to get started on the world of eve. but once you get the basics, what then. to expand on ur skills you must hunt/find/barter. this can be very challenging.
If you were to have to find and be challenged for the skills at the beginning you would find it too hard to get started, unless you had help.
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.02 13:43:00 -
[8]
The key - You trained them up to Lv1. Big whoop.
Try training up drones to 5, meanwhile keeping your ship skills and combat skills reasonably up-to-date.
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Askari
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Posted - 2003.07.02 13:58:00 -
[9]
I have.
and refining and refinery efficiency and analytical mind and learning and spatial awareness and instant recall and electronics and engineering.... plus others i cant think of here.
I dont get your point buddy?
All i said was i had bought them at the drop of a hat... and i think it should be harder to do. Why are the frigate skills availalble at 3 different locations in every region.
Why not minmatar skill is only available in minmatar space...
Why are drones skills availalbe everywhere, rather than seeded at specific gallente owned stations...
etc,
that would promote all kinds of player interaction and market speculation...
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~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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MoiraineDamodred
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Posted - 2003.07.02 18:50:00 -
[10]
I'd agree that the race specific skills ought to be found in abundance only in the empires in which it would make sense.
Outside of that, the skill situation seems to be fine, it's reasonable for Gallente frigate skills to be found in abundance in Gallente territory. And stuff like Small Energy Turrets should be found pretty much every, since they're used in a lot of places.
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:06:00 -
[11]
Phoibos makes an interesting point. I guess I never really thought about the difficulty of getting new skills. I do know it seems strange the training time required for the levels uses an acceleration curve, while the bonus achieved seems to follow a fixed path. I would like to see both the time and bonus follow the same path. As it stands now, you get most of the advantage from a skill with a minimal investment.
I wonder if there are a maximum number of skill points to be had by a single mind. I mean you would think with someone with a memory of 15 and an intelligence of 15 would be able to have more skill knowledge then someone with a memory of 6 and intelligence of 6.
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Nuira Snow
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Posted - 2003.07.03 16:08:00 -
[12]
I'd be happy for only 7 days trainging to a level 5 skill. I trained my character ( started with mining 4) to mining 5 in just under 13 days, I may be able to get skill 1 in a lot of things easily ( makes sense when you are at a college/accademy ) but learning them to thier utmost takes time.
interesting was automatic skills in gunnery and spaceship command though not listed in any of the creation lists I used.
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Mrissa Easeah
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Posted - 2003.07.03 17:48:00 -
[13]
Maybe they could, well, not exactly make skills 'rare' perse', but distribute them more unevenly through space. Have a core of standard skills always available, and have racially preferential locations for the others. You don't learn Gallente Cruisers skill at Pator Tech for instance. Some cultures might have a harder time with certain skills, making them, while available, costing a premium amount if you don't travel to the region specializing in that skill. Just a thought.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2003.07.03 19:30:00 -
[14]
hmmm... I take the middle ground:-
1. All skils are availible to all
2. Most skills have a 'race', say, drone interfacing is gallente, amarr frigate is (obviously) amarr.
3. Training a race skill of your own race is as normal.
4. Training a race skill of another race effectively doubles the rank, so Amarr frigate becomes rank 4 for gall/cad/min. this really compounds with the top skills, (Amarr Titan is now rank 30 for gall/cad/min)
This seems logical to me, as an amarr control system is obviously going to be laid out in a manner intuitive for an amarrian, but perhaps alien to a caldari, yet it does not cause the complete ristriction that CCP will want to avoid.
I'm sure you will all let me know what you think.....
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.04 14:58:00 -
[15]
the thing is, most of the skills available are nearly all fundamental. I do agree though that spaceship-specific skills should be based around their home systems, which could help with trade a little. Selling ammar indy skills in caldari space could be quite profitable.
But it's the 'elite' skills that will be difficult. From what we've heard there is a reverse engineering book or two floating around the galaxy somewhere. Nobody has found them yet. some of the creation-only skills are turning up in space too.
Before too long, I think the explorers will be some of the richest people in the game. eg. if I found rev eng. tbh, I'd probably learn it. if I found another one, though, I would charge someone upwards of 50 million for it. And they would gladly pay.
(taking advance orders now ;))
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Agan Rafa
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Posted - 2003.07.04 16:02:00 -
[16]
Hmmm, while the real time factor in training is quite elegant on the one hand, it does rather lead to imbalance later on - I mean lets just assume we do suddenly get another 50 skills or so, then those that have been around longest will automatically have a leg up over everyone else (due to having trained everything else to lvl5 already - I'm thinking pre-requisites here).
Also,surely in a multi-player sense it would be logical to have a learning cap (ie: max 20 skills or so), so that certain players will complement each other. Corps for instance will hire real specialists, not just all-rounders. If I can learn every skill there is, then whats the point of creating say a Gallenten Trader or an Amarr fighter pilot or whatever. Kinda takes the role-playing element out and opens the door to the 'exploiter/monty-haul' type of player. Just like in real life, not everyone can do everything - unless they're James Bond or so, which they're not, obviously.
This cap can be raised (say 20 to 22 or so)everytime a new flood of skills arrives, so as to give 'max'ed-out' players a chance to learn new skills too - or finally a free slot to get that other weapon skill they always wanted.....
Carebear extraordinaire |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.04 16:41:00 -
[17]
guys guys guys... we're not gaining the Mystical Spellbook of the Liche King, here. It's farking military training! Ship navigation! The common skills of the spacefaring universe - and the less common ones are either 1) damn expensive, 2) not avilable at all on the market, 3) take bloody ages to train, 4) require 57 other skills to even attempt, or 5) some combination of several of the above.
It is "easy" to get a jillion simple skills to level 1.
however, you will suck. So it SHOULD be easy.
2-5% bonuses in a buncha stuff won't do you much good. Honest.
Actually going for a certain goals requires traversing the skill tree, and not just "need this skill," but "need this skill at level 3 or level 5...." that's not trivial.
For the day.5 it took me to get Cruiser to 3, frex, nothing else was getting trained, either - so taking time to specialize in one skill means a good week could go by where all other progress is halted. What do you do when you realize, say, 5 days into a 9-day skill, you can't use this rare drop item until you have THAT skill, which you dont have at all, and cant even train to level 1 unless you have THIS skill, which you DO have - but at too low a level to start t'other one... wheeee...!
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Sin Lee
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Posted - 2003.07.06 15:00:00 -
[18]
i think it's like in real life.. if u have the money u can tain for any skill out there..dont see it as u reading a book to learn..though i see it like that hehe.. in fact u should ask yourself why we can't have certain skills yet..
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:16:00 -
[19]
When I think about games like Morrowind there were lots of interesting things you had to do so that you could gain more and more power, thus getting better stores and expertice open up to you. You had to finish some quests or do some things to get to the goal. Here you can just buy most of them right away. I had been exploring for 2 weeks so I was really short of skills. Then I stopped in Hulm and bought perhaps 30 skills. So I could operate all those things, shields, weapons etc.
The problem was that it felt like I got everything for free. A ton of tools, but everything was so easy to get. The Thorax was another matter, much harder to get. A lot of work went into getting it so it was much more fun to get. The skills could be more like this
Perhaps do some missions for special guilds and you can get some skills that you can't otherwise. This would be more fun I think.
I just think it's actually more fun if you have to work for the candy and not get it for almost free.
/Phoibos
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Anuk Su'Namun
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:26:00 -
[20]
I'll have to agree with the clown here.. the cheap skills you can buy are basic "life building" skills.. how to drive, how to shoot etc..
and some of the other more specialized ones cost a bit.. you can either hunt 40 pirates for a skill book (how much sense does that make?) or you can take the money you got from those 40 pirates, go to a university(where most skills are bought) and PAY someone to train you (buy a book)..
makes sense to me
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Tich QuickSilver
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Posted - 2003.07.07 08:30:00 -
[21]
but there are lots of skills not available anywhere except when you create a character
mainly science ones (metallurgy, laboratory operation, biology, mnenomics etc) and industrial ones (production efficiency)
I dont know of any of these being found as pirate loot. and i've never found any skill from pirate loot since the game went live.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.07.07 08:41:00 -
[22]
Why should skills be rare? Some are expensive to learn and take a lot of training time, but unless a skill is "secret" (like criminal skills) or obscure (like Jovian skills) anyone can readily learn it. After all, anyone who can afford the training can learn just about anything they want...
Even the race specific skills shouldn't be harder to learn for other races. If you don't know how to fly a cruiser, ANY type of cruiser is just as easy to learn as any other. Gallente may have a racial tendancy for drone use, but it won't take an Amarr any longer than a Gallente to learn drone piloting if neither one has ever used a drone.
I DO think racial skills (like ship piloting) should only be available in that race's space though, and should NOT be sold to people with a negative rating with that government. But actual learning times wouldn't be affected by race.
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Piratess
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Posted - 2003.07.07 11:19:00 -
[23]
ye right
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Andrey
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Posted - 2003.07.07 11:20:00 -
[24]
...........
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Evee
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Posted - 2003.07.07 14:32:00 -
[25]
I personally think that this skill system lends it'self very nicely to the casual gamer, No longer do you have to spend a huge chunk of your time doing daft repetitive tasks to level up. (You can save the repetitive task to mine isk instead :) ).
I do believe that it could have been made more interesting (And probably complex) by having time modifiers - You would learn quicker if attending a university or offline as when online you character is distracted with whatever task being carried out.
I also believe that more skills needed to have been added from the begining - Especially with regards to production and research. As at the momment anyone can make anything they have blueprints for and basic level skills. This will result in excess supply and a deminishing value of goods - not a great way to manage an economy.
Although I have already stated that the current system is good for casual gamers It isn't a true modelling of the real world. In the real world If you were to read a book about somthing - say tree surgery, You would have the basic understandings of what is required to prune a large tree. But you wouldn't yet have the practical skills to carry out the work. Even though you have the training you don't have the experience. It would have been nice that once a skill had been trained use of it would result in increased bonuses.. Although now that the game has been launched implementing such system wouldn't be possible as there are already users who have transended the skill ladders. It's just a shame such an opportunity has been missed.
I sincerely hope that the developers at CCP are planning on introducting more skills - And sooner rather than later...
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MoiraineDamodred
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Posted - 2003.07.08 01:35:00 -
[26]
I think the in-game explaination is that the skills aren't books, but neural implants which gradually impart the knowledge to you. The time it takes apparently depends on the complexity of the knowledge being imparted, and how receptive you are to it.
After all, an experienced programmer doesn't take a long time to learn a new language, while Ms. Technophobe would take ages to learn a new programming language.
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