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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.06.18 09:46:00 -
[1]
So, CCP, now that you deleted my post in your latest dev blog asking if you will change your corporate culture and actually document the API officially, let me try again
I get it, you probably wished your API developer didn't say during a Fanfest interview that CCP doesn't document anything. Hopefully, you didn't punish him severely for that. I don't know why you feel that an community run wiki and one or two developers in a chat channel is more than enough documentation to provide for your API services.
Please put extra resources in the API department and document it. I really like the direction that customizable keys is going, and I think its fair to charge your licensing fee on 3rd party applications that are *FOR PROFIT*.
Hell, I'm sure you could make the API something tied into Carbon, and you can use it on all your future IP and technology. How cool would that be, incredibly robust, useful and documented API feature for 3rd party developers to make great tools for your community? I sure think that would be a great boon for you to pat yourselves on the back for "being cutting edge and awesome" ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.18 10:40:00 -
[2]
It is coming and it will cost you only 99$ ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 10:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Miilla on 18/06/2011 10:46:20 I would like to see an SDK.
(basic plumbing for the REST API and always up to date with each patch) .NET WCF Async proxies Python bindings C++ bindings
Proper documentation (not just XML dumps)
XML Schemas for XML output (so we can do XLST transforms and validation of the data).
Now this, I would consider paying a small fee for (1 PLEX for example per year OR $20 USD for non commercial).
But there is the issue of the "license terms", those have yet to be released and examined, there better be GOOD definitions in there of pivotal terms.
Hell if CCP want an SDK i could package one up if they give me a years free gametime.
If not, I might make my own private Pack and relase that, for that I don't need a license, I can simply use placeholders for CCP assets.
WPF controls for app builders, data structures, XML schemas, REST proxy bindings etc. Then all they will have to do is glue it together
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.06.18 10:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow It is coming and it will cost you only 99$
Actually the license mentioned it being "As Is" and that you would be getting no new functionality from the API itself.
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
kerradeph
Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.06.18 11:01:00 -
[5]
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2011.06.18 11:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: kerradeph in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
I've got bad news for you on the API, then... -- Ix Forres - Used to be a third party developer, now a full-time bittervet |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.06.18 11:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow It is coming and it will cost you only 99$
Actually, you'll pay the 99$ and NOT get any documentation. The API is after all not supported and provided as-is. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
kerradeph
Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: kerradeph on 18/06/2011 12:36:58
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: kerradeph in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
I've got bad news for you on the API, then...
out of curiosity, where can I find the API code?
EDIT: not the numbers and characters, I mean how does one actually interface with it?
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Miilla on 18/06/2011 12:45:24
Originally by: kerradeph Edited by: kerradeph on 18/06/2011 12:36:58
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: kerradeph in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
I've got bad news for you on the API, then...
out of curiosity, where can I find the API code?
EDIT: not the numbers and characters, I mean how does one actually interface with it?
If .Net use WCF to just make a binding wrapper with Service Contract attributes.
Then async call it because it is network bound.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_API_Functions
This is why we need what I suggest from CCP in my point 3 here... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530240&page=1#3
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kerradeph
Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:52:00 -
[10]
oh, I take it you are talking about the database ID information? if so, I could see how that could become painful. but at the same time there is probably a way of cross referencing these to another database for more information about the ID in question.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: kerradeph oh, I take it you are talking about the database ID information? if so, I could see how that could become painful. but at the same time there is probably a way of cross referencing these to another database for more information about the ID in question.
The ID is your account id and api key.
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kerradeph
Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.06.18 13:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: kerradeph oh, I take it you are talking about the database ID information? if so, I could see how that could become painful. but at the same time there is probably a way of cross referencing these to another database for more information about the ID in question.
The ID is your account id and api key.
no, I got that, I was talking about system ID, item ID, stuff like that.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 13:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Miilla on 18/06/2011 13:04:51
Originally by: kerradeph
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: kerradeph oh, I take it you are talking about the database ID information? if so, I could see how that could become painful. but at the same time there is probably a way of cross referencing these to another database for more information about the ID in question.
The ID is your account id and api key.
no, I got that, I was talking about system ID, item ID, stuff like that.
As for everybody calling the REST API, that is stupid, every developer has to code the same plumbing, PROXY WRAPPERS. which should be provided by a CCP SDK.
When the API changes, we have to go and discover WHAT changed each patch. If we had an SDK proxy wrapper to Download, then we can see that very quickly.
They could install that as part of the Client download OR as a seperate download that we can redistribute.
CCP's approach to developers, is plain and simply, a hack job.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 18:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Miilla on 18/06/2011 18:32:43
Originally by: kerradeph
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: kerradeph oh, I take it you are talking about the database ID information? if so, I could see how that could become painful. but at the same time there is probably a way of cross referencing these to another database for more information about the ID in question.
The ID is your account id and api key.
no, I got that, I was talking about system ID, item ID, stuff like that.
http://www.eveonline.com/community/toolkit.asp There is a database dump here you can query.
Just use LINQ to query it from your app.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.18 18:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: kerradeph
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
Comments baby comments. My code is FULL of comments else I would be lost.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 18:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: kerradeph
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
Comments baby comments. My code is FULL of comments else I would be lost.
Good code is self documentating, but that belongs in a seperate thread :)
God i love COBOL :) Hey CCP, can we have COBOL bindings for the SDK too :)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.18 18:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: kerradeph
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
Let's start with this classic thenà#define _ -F<00||--F-OO--; int F=00,OO=00; main(){F_OO();printf("%1.3f\n",4.*-F/OO/OO);}F_OO() { _-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_ } ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: kerradeph
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
Let's start with this classic thenà#define _ -F<00||--F-OO--; int F=00,OO=00; main(){F_OO();printf("%1.3f\n",4.*-F/OO/OO);}F_OO() { _-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_ }
It prints goatse? :)
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Miilla
Good code is self documentating, but that belongs in a seperate thread :)
Documenting the bricks doesn't tell you if you're building a garden wall or a house, nor why you're doing so.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Miilla
Good code is self documentating, but that belongs in a seperate thread :)
Documenting the bricks doesn't tell you if you're building a garden wall or a house, nor why you're doing so.
That's why you hvae documentation and specs :)
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Lutz Major
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia
#define _ -F<00||--F-OO--; int F=00,OO=00; main(){F_OO();printf("%1.3f\n",4.*-F/OO/OO);}F_OO() { _-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_ }
It's Pi :-) ... and I do even remember, when I first saw it
I'm old
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daddys helper
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: kerradeph Edited by: kerradeph on 18/06/2011 12:36:58
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: kerradeph in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
I've got bad news for you on the API, then...
out of curiosity, where can I find the API code?
EDIT: not the numbers and characters, I mean how does one actually interface with it?
you can wrap the api calls in a php query, I mean if you want pure useless xml output you can send a query to the api via the address line in a browser, formatted pretty much like any web query. but you really need to parse and process the xml for it to be of any use
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: daddys helper
Originally by: kerradeph Edited by: kerradeph on 18/06/2011 12:36:58
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: kerradeph in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
I've got bad news for you on the API, then...
out of curiosity, where can I find the API code?
EDIT: not the numbers and characters, I mean how does one actually interface with it?
you can wrap the api calls in a php query, I mean if you want pure useless xml output you can send a query to the api via the address line in a browser, formatted pretty much like any web query. but you really need to parse and process the xml for it to be of any use
You HTTP GET / POST the URL for the REST API.
You use the XML given back at you for your app purpose which could involve querying the Toolkit database (see my previous post)
You can use an XLST transform to change the XML to whatever format you want (if CCP released an XSD).
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daddys helper
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Miilla
You HTTP GET / POST the URL for the REST API.
You use the XML given back at you for your app purpose which could involve querying the Toolkit database (see my previous post)
You can use an XLST transform to change the XML to whatever format you want (if CCP released an XSD).
arrays are your friend, just write your own parse n format script
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da go
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: kerradeph
that's my take on programming. in my case I can look at almost any piece of code and make sense of it as long as the programmer didn't use undefinable gibberish for variables.
Let's start with this classic thenà#define _ -F<00||--F-OO--; int F=00,OO=00; main(){F_OO();printf("%1.3f\n",4.*-F/OO/OO);}F_OO() { _-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ _-_-_-_ }
Nice one. I did not know it.
Believe it or not, I did manage to solve it "by mind".
Except for computing the final 'multiplication and double division': I just did not bother and used a calculator for those. But I did figure out the code in my mind and computed the F and OO values by just counting the number of lines and the total number of _.
And of course I do know I got the correct answer without compiling and executing it. Because if you need to compile+execute it to check ... you do not have the correct answer (or your math knowledge is such a fail that you did not recognize it). --- I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again! Bart Simpson. |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.18 19:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: daddys helper
Originally by: Miilla
You HTTP GET / POST the URL for the REST API.
You use the XML given back at you for your app purpose which could involve querying the Toolkit database (see my previous post)
You can use an XLST transform to change the XML to whatever format you want (if CCP released an XSD).
arrays are your friend, just write your own parse n format script
I will just create my own Schema, easier.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.06.19 07:53:00 -
[27]
API documentation is a mess as it is now. The closest thing to support you can get is devs from time to time fielding all the quetions (though lately they are dealing with the sperglords since the monetizing blog)
It needs a bigger staff, you need to actually hire SOMEBODY to a document it and make it available to the EVE public. Your entire corporate culture where you don't "do" documentation and your customerbase better like it or they can **** off is getting old. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 API documentation is a mess as it is now. The closest thing to support you can get is devs from time to time fielding all the quetions (though lately they are dealing with the sperglords since the monetizing blog)
It needs a bigger staff, you need to actually hire SOMEBODY to a document it and make it available to the EVE public. Your entire corporate culture where you don't "do" documentation and your customerbase better like it or they can **** off is getting old.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530240&page=1#3
And a team to support it.. Yes, 2 people would be enough, even one person could do that full time.
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:41:00 -
[29]
Originally by: da go
Believe it or not, I did manage to solve it "by mind".
Except for computing the final 'multiplication and double division': I just did not bother and used a calculator for those. But I did figure out the code in my mind and computed the F and OO values by just counting the number of lines and the total number of _.
And of course I do know I got the correct answer without compiling and executing it. Because if you need to compile+execute it to check ... you do not have the correct answer (or your math knowledge is such a fail that you did not recognize it).
edit: crap. Lutz Major, you should not spoil good stuff. I'm glad I got to see Tippia's post before your was up and did not refresh the thread until I solved it.
Damn, maybe you should apply for programming job in ccp to eve developer :P Might get some of those long standing issues actually fixed allready.
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LLoyd Thomson
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dasola Damn, maybe you should apply for programming job in ccp to eve developer :P Might get some of those long standing issues actually fixed allready.
I think he is too busy coding The Matrix
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