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Taylor Lautner
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Posted - 2011.06.19 20:18:00 -
[1]
With the addition of the 'ooo coool' moving turrets soon and the new other explosion effects, what else do you think can add interest and the loss of confusion from an outsider's view of the game's PvP? In my opinion if you are not an EvE player but looked into see what's PvP in the game like but all you see are all these squares and lazy 'ball' like pixels that just drifts when in battle and the constant same turret sounds and effects; I like the lasers and some turret effects but wouldn't it be interesting if there could be more addition to the game play on PvP? Not just squares or 'balls' replaced with a pretty pixel of a ship floating around and just firing at stuff
Maybe if there could be a 'collision' damage added? when a ship bumps a ship both ship will get a little damage on shields? to prevent the boring bumping and just watching two ships 1meter face to face and lazily firing weapons... Or a more active module for weapons and show effects of debris splitting while getting hit on armor?
What do you think can add to a more appealing pvp audience other than the players participating on a PvP itself? Or do you think the pvp in the game is substantial enough with the new features to come? |
Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.19 22:36:00 -
[2]
Having a variable on the server which says which way a ship is rotated would be a good start. So many things could stem from there
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.20 05:03:00 -
[3]
Quote: Maybe if there could be a 'collision' damage added? when a ship bumps a ship both ship will get a little damage on shields? to prevent the boring bumping and just watching two ships 1meter face to face and lazily firing weapons... Or a more active module for weapons and show effects of debris splitting while getting hit on armor?
So do you get concorded for bump damage? If so are we all going to get taken out for accidently bumping at a gate or station? ..and if not what's to stop people from creating huge bump blobs in jita to bump you to death?
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Fafnir Drake
Gallente Boob Heads Fat Kids Cause Lag
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Posted - 2011.06.20 06:05:00 -
[4]
This may be largely irrelevant, but I imagine not only would collision modelling place huge strain on the server, but modelling it accurately would result in... balance issues.
Have you ever thought about how much damage a collision between spaceships would really do if accurately modeled?
I mean, average speed for an asteroid is something like 30-50 km/s, yah? A rock the size of a pillow goes off with roughly the force of a small to mid-sized nuclear bomb moving at that speed, if I'm remembering right.
Our ships in EVE move a lot slower, but they also are WAY more massive. Can you imagine the forces of two ships colliding? I can't imagine the damage such an event would cause.
It certainly wouldn't be like in the sci-fi flicks where the ship rams the other one and the people get tossed around a bit and get up with a few sc****s. ------ "Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure." |
Dallenn
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.20 09:54:00 -
[5]
How about some official educational videos? As a newbie in World of Tanks I found those very helpful - have a short video about a category of units (say frigates or interceptors in our case) listing its common uses and some shots of exciting action.
Or it could showcase some of the real high points of Eve PvP - like why scouting is important (so you don't get jumped by 20 ships), why tackling matters, how ship fittings make a difference etc.
This could be just a contest for the best fan videos with some rewards from CCP added.
TAZ Norlonto - The 0.0 free trade hub |
Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fafnir Drake I mean, average speed for an asteroid is something like 30-50 km/s, yah?
That depends where you measure it from. There's no medium in the real space so you can choose pretty much whatever reference frame you like.
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Tyme Xandr
Gallente United Eve Directorate
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:08:00 -
[7]
So collision in EVE doing damage ...
Get your blob of 50 people in free noob ships and hang out in jita bumping the freighters, orcas, industrials that undock from 4-4.
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Commander Imran
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:35:00 -
[8]
Agreed, It doesn't look exciting enough. I think its just a simple graphics thing.
With new turrets, better missile animations and hopefully engine trails someday this should be fixed.
Maybe engine trails for drones as well (as long as it doesn't cause too much lag) and maybe some better damage effects.
Maybe some better explosion and damage effects. Crew corpses floating off into space and fire/plasma spewing out of hull breaches.
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shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.06.20 19:50:00 -
[9]
I want to see things like "your group of 425MM auto cannons missed" to be represented by my guns missing the target and flying past the ship.
I think when a ship blows up I think it would be cool if the ships hull remained like on cap ships just to make it look more life like and to keep the "That used to be a ship!" from people watching.
Also I think it would be cool if we could get some damage on ships. one spot of fire really don't look like much but I know that's a big tech issue to bring that in.
I don't think the problem is lack of movement I think the problem is that the same things happen over and over. If you throw some mix into the stream of turrets and missiles. ----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar.
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Yolo
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2011.06.21 00:32:00 -
[10]
I showed some fleet fights to some outsiders and they asked if it was some kind of pong or something. :) Eve could really use a change in gameplay, current style isnt working to well and the newbies has a hard time getting thru the tutorial. (heck its like pre-school, concidering how long it is) ---
A disgruntled ex-employee who has been harrassing local customers. Threat level: pathetic |
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.06.21 03:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 21/06/2011 03:16:34
Originally by: shadowace00007 I want to see things like "your group of 425MM auto cannons missed" to be represented by my guns missing the target and flying past the ship.
I think when a ship blows up I think it would be cool if the ships hull remained like on cap ships just to make it look more life like and to keep the "That used to be a ship!" from people watching.
Also I think it would be cool if we could get some damage on ships. one spot of fire really don't look like much but I know that's a big tech issue to bring that in.
I don't think the problem is lack of movement I think the problem is that the same things happen over and over. If you throw some mix into the stream of turrets and missiles.
Agreed.
What would also be cool about what you suggest (showing misses as actual misses) is that it'd give you some visual feedback on what is happening, which would not only make the game look better, but it would be useful to boot.
Without having to read a guide explaining angular velocity, a newbie might be able to tell, just by visuals alone, that his railguns aren't turning quickly enough to keep up with the orbiting frigate. A basic understanding of an important but poorly explained game mechanic could be gained by intuition alone.
What also might be cool would be an (optional) picture-in-picture type display over your currently selected/active target, perhaps with an overlay displaying its HP bars (enlarged), as well other configurable info on the target such as ship class, distance, velocity, angular velocity (yes, the overview already lets you access this info, but this would would make it easier to identify the pertinent stats on an individual ship, and might let you trim down the overview). Think all those sci-fi movies where someone with a cybernetic HUD or spaceship computer zooms in on something and it starts spitting out a bunch of information about it.
One of the nice things about such a feature would be that during combat, you could always have at least one thing on your screen that visually resembles a space ship (or sentry gun or whatnot) without compromising your tactical view of the combat space too much. If you google for EVE combat videos, too often what you see are just blue, red and green squares moving around (or not) with some particle effects ... combined with the overview spreadsheet, tiny font and other dated-looking UI elements, the end result is that these gameplay videos just don't have much visual impact at all.
Improving those aspects of the game would not only be appreciated by existing players, but I think it'd make the game a lot more marketable.
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0Lona 0ltor
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Posted - 2011.06.21 06:24:00 -
[12]
Prevent station games ie people who are scrammed from docking. Bump ships are the dumbest **** in any game ever. Having to push people of safe spots sounds like something from a bugged internet flash game.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.21 06:38:00 -
[13]
I think what strikes out most potential EvE players is the lack of the impact of personal skill in the vast majority of pvp in EvE.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Claska
Amarr The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 11:09:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Claska on 21/06/2011 11:09:41 You know, i don't remember when they changed it but when ships blew up in eve it wasn't just pop with explostion, they actualy broke up as they exploded, sort of disolved.
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Valei Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.06.21 11:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 21/06/2011 11:49:27
Originally by: Val'Dore I think what strikes out most potential EvE players is the lack of the impact of personal skill in the vast majority of pvp in EvE.
You've gotten it exactly right, but good luck trying to convince the majority of veteran players who just love being able to easily gank newbies and have billions of ISK at their disposal, I can guarantee you that we're going to get trolled for daring to suggest this.
This is why I think Dust 514 for PC would be such a good idea, CCP would be reaching out to people who just don't like the EVE PvP for this exact reason and they'd still be able to play in the EVE universe.
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Dallenn
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.21 14:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ranita Drell
What also might be cool would be an (optional) picture-in-picture type display over your currently selected/active target, perhaps with an overlay displaying its HP bars (enlarged), as well other configurable info on the target such as ship class, distance, velocity, angular velocity (yes, the overview already lets you access this info, but this would would make it easier to identify the pertinent stats on an individual ship, and might let you trim down the overview). Think all those sci-fi movies where someone with a cybernetic HUD or spaceship computer zooms in on something and it starts spitting out a bunch of information about it.
Hear hear! A target camera and/or HUD overlay could be a juicy addition, and probably one of the only ways to add more visual impact without majorly hindering gameplay. And if the new UI elements get in the way (well, they shouldn't, why put them in if they don't provide useful information) you could hide and pop them up with a single keypress.
I also think that CCP should refocus on small gang action - too much big blob fighting where individual skill doesn't make a difference. Somehow the learning curve into PvP land needs to be reworked so new players can enjoy the success of ganking others and achieving victories without needing to join a 1000+ man alliance.
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E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:22:00 -
[17]
I agree, many video's are very confusing to watch and many people first tast of combat(vs npc) is aproach/orbit and click the f keys.
Maybe showing the actual ship as seen by your sip in the target window would help. That way you can see is he heading away/toward/parallel or attempting to get transversal.
Might help. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin |
E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:25:00 -
[18]
oh i forgot Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails Engine Trails
Did I miss one? ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin |
Daedalus II
Helios Research
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Posted - 2011.06.21 16:16:00 -
[19]
Line of sight when using turrets. That would make a world of difference; imagine a frigate zipping between carriers just as another ship releases a broad-side on it, resulting in it hitting the carrier instead. Dogfighting between asteroids. Missed shots that instead hit a ship behind the intended target. A frigate that has the bad luck of flying between a dread and it's target. Fleet blobs that actually have to consider positioning. Not only speed and tanking ability would be what counts, but also positioning. Yeah it would be awsome.
Unfortunately it's probably too hard on the servers (although I think CCP could do it if they put their minds to it).
___________ Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research! |
Valei Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.06.21 16:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Daedalus II Line of sight when using turrets. That would make a world of difference; imagine a frigate zipping between carriers just as another ship releases a broad-side on it, resulting in it hitting the carrier instead. Dogfighting between asteroids. Missed shots that instead hit a ship behind the intended target. A frigate that has the bad luck of flying between a dread and it's target. Fleet blobs that actually have to consider positioning. Not only speed and tanking ability would be what counts, but also positioning. Yeah it would be awsome.
Unfortunately it's probably too hard on the servers (although I think CCP could do it if they put their minds to it).
I think that the only reason that games developers truly don't attempt this kind of thing is because they are lazy and complacent, it's far easier to introduce new graphics and ships/items into the EVE ( which realistically are new graphics ) than it is to actually introduce a new mechanic that would force players to be far more skillful in combat than they are now.
CCP are proving with Dust 514 that they are entirely capable of creative a system like this and I think that the only thing stopping them really is hard work and maybe the veteran players of this game who would hate having their advantage taken away.
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Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.21 17:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: E man Industries oh i forgot Engine Trails
They don't exist in space. Engine trails would look great as part of a sort of psychedelic tactical overlay though
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Valei Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.06.21 17:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Halbert Vector
Originally by: E man Industries oh i forgot Engine Trails
They don't exist in space. Engine trails would look great as part of a sort of psychedelic tactical overlay though
You do know EVE is a SCIENCE FICTION game right? Or are you going to suddenly switch tactics and it would cause too much lag if CCP fixed this graphics issue?
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Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Halbert Vector on 21/06/2011 18:38:36
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Originally by: Halbert Vector
Originally by: E man Industries oh i forgot Engine Trails
They don't exist in space. Engine trails would look great as part of a sort of psychedelic tactical overlay though
You do know EVE is a SCIENCE FICTION game right? Or are you going to suddenly switch tactics and it would cause too much lag if CCP fixed this graphics issue?
I was under the impression that eve, although not perfectly scientific, was meant to at least look and feel like an authentic depiction of space. Hence the redshift and blueshift during warp, the vast distances betwen celestials, abscence of rubber forehead aliens, weapons that exist and make sense and lots of other details. Jet trails are such an obvious anachronism they don't seem to fit into that picture at all except as part of an awesome overlay (which could do with a revamp anyway).
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Suldra
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Quote: Maybe if there could be a 'collision' damage added? when a ship bumps a ship both ship will get a little damage on shields? to prevent the boring bumping and just watching two ships 1meter face to face and lazily firing weapons... Or a more active module for weapons and show effects of debris splitting while getting hit on armor?
So do you get concorded for bump damage? If so are we all going to get taken out for accidently bumping at a gate or station? ..and if not what's to stop people from creating huge bump blobs in jita to bump you to death?
Eons ago when the game first came out there was collision dammage! You could also warp into a ship do significant dammage to its shields and punt it accross the solar system!
There use to be mines in the game that when spread out over a decent field wrecked havoc on unsuspecting travelers.
You used to be able to traget Missles and shoot them. Missles used to collide. You could even outrun them and fly them right back to thier point of origin. (I really did that when interceptors first came out!)
However, to the massive lag, whinning and lobbying by those wanting iWin buttons it was all taken out.
Sorry! However, if you are an outsider and never seen a 500+ vs 500+ space batter you ahve no clue what PvP is!
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Akatenshi Xi
Amarr Elite Shadow Society Imperial Radiant Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.21 21:48:00 -
[25]
EVE's PVP is pretty boring as is the PVE. No free control over ships, everything is skill point dependent and not pilot skill dependent. And what I mean by pilot skill dependent is a pilot actually having real skill in shooting/maneuvering and being able to lead his/her fire to hit a moving target at distance.
Maybe EVE's concept of ship control and PVP/PVE goes great for slow lumbering ships like a Cruiser up to a capital ship.. But for a frigate or destroyer, seriously. Crap gameplay when it comes to pew pew. It's all about skill points, fitting, and who points/clicks first. No shooting skill involved. Maybe they had to dumb it down for folks who aren't coordinated so they too can sit back and laugh sometimes?
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E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 21:53:00 -
[26]
Edited by: E man Industries on 21/06/2011 21:54:36
Originally by: Daedalus II Line of sight when using turrets. That would make a world of difference; imagine a frigate zipping between carriers just as another ship releases a broad-side on it, resulting in it hitting the carrier instead. Dogfighting between asteroids. Missed shots that instead hit a ship behind the intended target. A frigate that has the bad luck of flying between a dread and it's target. Fleet blobs that actually have to consider positioning. Not only speed and tanking ability would be what counts, but also positioning. Yeah it would be awsome.
Unfortunately it's probably too hard on the servers (although I think CCP could do it if they put their minds to it).
Engines can't leave a glowing trail of buring gasses/particals of some sort in there wake? it's sci fi, they could leave pink ponies and explain it away as ponie powered engines.
As for bumping, yes commets hit with the force of an atom bomb..know what else does? a 1400mm nuclear shell. I think of weapons and hulls in eve as so powerfull simple kinetec collisions are not a huge deal. Disapaiting the enrgy of a battle ship crashing into your ship is less than taking a broad side from a maelstrom armed with nuclear shells that may be even more powerfull the current nuclear weapons... There bumbing explained.
I would love love line fo site and I think it is a dream of all to have that in EvE. At somepoint hopefully. Further to that I want directional damage, if my port shield is failing I want to roll over so they hit my port shield and thus I can take more dmg. Faster ships orbit to stay on my weaker side and chew through that.
Simpler sugestion: Have the arrow keys work. if I press up my ship should go up at a set rate(rate or turn to be detrmined). Would be fun to fly an inti this way. set it so i keep 80% of my speed and I can use my keys. Wheee. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin |
Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: E man Industries
Engines can't leave a glowing trail of buring gasses/particals of some sort in there wake? it's sci fi, they could leave pink ponies and explain it away as ponie powered engines.
Nope, I can pretty safely say there aren't any engines, no matter how exotic or impractical, that would do that. Ignoring the fact that gases are dispersed almost instantly in a vacum, ignoring the fact that the ejected material is thrown out really fast with nothing much to slow it down... where would you "leave" the engine trail? Engine trails are stationary, right? But in space there is no agreeable "stationary" because there is no medium.
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Dallenn
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.23 11:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akatenshi Xi EVE's PVP is pretty boring as is the PVE. No free control over ships, everything is skill point dependent and not pilot skill dependent. And what I mean by pilot skill dependent is a pilot actually having real skill in shooting/maneuvering and being able to lead his/her fire to hit a moving target at distance.
Maybe EVE's concept of ship control and PVP/PVE goes great for slow lumbering ships like a Cruiser up to a capital ship.. But for a frigate or destroyer, seriously. Crap gameplay when it comes to pew pew. It's all about skill points, fitting, and who points/clicks first. No shooting skill involved. Maybe they had to dumb it down for folks who aren't coordinated so they too can sit back and laugh sometimes?
True enough in the sense that ship movement system is very good for cruiser and larger ships. And no aiming skill required - but that is because CCP wanted the game easily scalable so this is just a technical limitation of the game format, and IMO it was a very good decision. Otherwise the above is a bit misguided...
Player skill does have a huge impact! Do you even engage what the enemy is showing you and do you have enough information for the situation? That is a critical call which you have to always make and it is just one of the many exciting things that make Eve PvP really stellar. Do you drop your cloak and add DPS to the mix, or does the enemy still have a ship on the field that can instapop you? etc. Fittings and maneuvering make a big difference. Even skill in manually flying your ship by point and click etc can change the outcome of a battle.
Although, the bigger the fight gets the less these aspects have impact, and certainly there have been a few other changes to the game over the years, which have decreased the role of player skill.
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