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Tim Swedy
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:16:00 -
[1]
Hey, my corp was just war dec'd again and the main issue is that we dont have much experience in dealing with pirates.
question is: Are there contractors in this game who might be willing to help a new corp with basic tactics and how to deal with wars? . We dont want to pay for someone to fight this war for us (mercs) but instead learn how to fend this stuff off ourselves. (give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime)
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Deen Wispa
Gallente Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 20/06/2011 20:27:30
in b4 the trollers troll the hell out of you, tell you that griefers aren't pirates, tell you to go back to WoW, scam you into hiring them....and what else am i missing?
ps. 8 kills and 129 losses for a 50+ man corp? geez...ow wonder people dec you guys; they see the KB and know you're easy targets.
try Agony Unleashed pvp classes. there are mercs who will spend a half day training you. last i checked, the cost was around 250M-500M for a corp your size.
looking at the losses for the past 3 days,i notice it's people getting ganked. your corp should really institute a war policy that outlines how to avoid getting ganked during travel, etc... I find that many empire corps have no policy or protocol for wars.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/06/2011 20:53:02 Learn to pvp, that's it. Free wardecs is great practice.
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:57:00 -
[4]
EVE-Mail sent
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Deen Wispa
Gallente Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.06.20 22:13:00 -
[5]
Have you considered writing up documentation that outlines what every corpie needs to do during times of war? I'm not referring to how to pvp but how to avoid lollosses. It seems like you are getting killed by a small corp. When you are racking up that many losses due to soloist, then that suggest that you do not have a corp war protocol that outlines things such as;
- how to avoid losing mission running ships - developing proper intel on enemy -teaching your noobs what common tactics the enemy uses and how to use it against them -and much more
If you don't have these, your corp will simply fold under the pressure of constant wardecs. You end up wasting your time and those in your corp.
My old corp and alliance did this and we mitigated alot of losses. I wrote alot of protocols and documentation that was sent out with every wardec. The alliance was constantly decced by most of the major hisec griefing and merc corps but they were never able to rack up alot of kills.
There's a saying in hisec wars; "People don't want to fight you. They just want to gank you."
Knowing the difference and how to deny kills is what determines the future of your corp.
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Lovelocke
Enlightened Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:04:00 -
[6]
The above post hits the nail on the head. The CEO and/or directors of your corp need to put in place policies which ensure the aggressors are given the most boring and pointless war possible to dissuade them from extending the war. Eve University is a fantastic model for this and it is where me and my directors for my corp got the majority of our ideas for our policies, concerning empire wardecs. Even now that we are fully living in nullsec our policies are still valid as we still get wardecced by empire grief corps, and so our policies ensure we give them zero kills.
1) You need an intel officer/director in charge of locating all enemies. The names should be passed to your corp members and they should add them all to their watchlist and know when they are and are not online. This will show you patterns in their active cycle and you'll know when you have a window of opportunity for moving stuff around.
2) Industrial operations need to cease while the enemy is online. Mining in your shining hulk whilst at war is not only asking for it to be ganked but also inviting the aggressors to extend their wardec. During war strict guidelines should be in place to ensure you're not losing any industrial ships.
3) Travel should be discouraged, especially in a slow-aligning ship. If necessary then either a frigate or a shuttle should be used.
4) Stay out of trade hubs, especially Jita.
5) Do not converse with the enemy. It's not just kills griefers love but the tears of crying industrialists. Your local smacktalk and whine will be copied and put onto a forum somewhere, where their corp will laugh at you.
6) Consider encouraging people to drop from the corp during war. Set up a chat channel - Chat.CORPNAME - where everyone can hang out while they're not in the corp. Run your mining operations etc as usual and simply leave one person in corp to keep it open. Once the wardec disappears then get everyone back in.
7) Consider joining an alliance. If your corp is not part of an alliance it costs just approx 1mil to wardec you. If you're in an alliance it costs 50 mil. Although 50mil isn't exactly a lot of money it does deter most griefers - as well as the fact you're in an alliance so many more targets.
These are just some simple and effective tips which don't include PvP that you can be doing to discourage future wardecs. A lot of these griefers idle in the same channels and pass on information to each other on easy targets, so if you've had one disastrous war then it's likely you'll be getting more wardecs.
If you actually want to fight then there's a few things you can do. PvP is a very fun part of the game but as a CEO you can do a lot to encourage your members to get involved. Having a ship replacement policy, for certain ships, will encourage your members to x up. Stick to simple cheap ships. Blackbirds are infamous for being the ship of choice for irritating griefers. Getting into one only takes days, so offer an incentive to your members to crosstrain into one and you'll buy them the ship+fittings which should only cost maybe 10 million. Backing these up should be ganking cruisers like Ruptures. 50 of you in blackbirds and ruptures are going to seriously **** off your enemies. And you can lose 10 ships to their 1 and be up on the isk war.
Feel free to contact me in game and I'll gladly get you on comms and discuss this with you more in depth. CEO Enlightened Industries |
Esbear
Minmatar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tim Swedy Hey, my corp was just war dec'd again and the main issue is that we dont have much experience in dealing with pirates.
question is: Are there contractors in this game who might be willing to help a new corp with basic tactics and how to deal with wars? . We dont want to pay for someone to fight this war for us (mercs) but instead learn how to fend this stuff off ourselves. (give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime)
As has been said before sign up for an Agony basic pvp class. There, for a 20 million isk fee per pilot, we teach the basics in pvp including both theory and practical training including a class roam. Join our public in game channel AU_PVP_UNIVERSITY if you have any questions or want additional information.
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Shailo Kato
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:43:00 -
[8]
Can I join your corp to PVP them?
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:48:00 -
[9]
Also my corp (EVE Pilot Help Center) does practical training but only in the US time zone. We generally do a training overview, fitting ships, intel, etc. and then fleet up with you to provide Field Command, Intel, and logistics to go kill some war targets.
We generally help throughout the war dec and are a continued resource as apposed to a one time thing.
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Tosser Galore
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tosser Galore on 21/06/2011 16:10:00 Edited by: Tosser Galore on 21/06/2011 16:07:39
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/06/2011 20:53:02 Learn to pvp, that's it. Free wardecs is great practice.
You are a fountain of detailed wisdom. For an industrial corp "free wardecs" will be far from practice, if they just try to "pvp them"
Spy on them with alts (no not infiltrate). Put on watch list.You donŠt need to fight them (gather intel first if you really want to try), you need to know where they are (camping their usual trade/mission runner hub and sitting on gates waiting for WT to show (usually they have a wide selection of WT not just your corp)
Have a mission runner run locator agents on the decers and find their "home station" (know that they do the same to get kills on all your members, bust missioning and mining ops and general carebear activity, like undocking)
Put out a neut/cloaky scout outside your "home station", when you need to undock or jump through a gate. Set up observation points, any char in noob ship/pod will do. Scout ahead when traveling. Use D-scan, spam it constantly when you have WT in local.
Have the cloaky scout sit and watch while they attack other WT (memorize active pilots and where the like to camp what they fly and for fits etc, consult their killboard, and battleclinic.
Try to "spot" neutral reppers and alts etc. Orcas that are used for ship switching etc and look for patterns in general that you can use as intel. Learn what TZ they play in when they are active. When they go online etc.
Set up a corp (only access) INTEL channel that constantly reports sightings, or have someone/or several "alts" stalk them.
Report char name and ship type and the location, and more detailed; sitting on station in WT Harbinger Amarr at 0 undock etc.' WT Ares safed within 3000 k off gate, etc..
Be aware of high sec war mechanics aggression timers and gate timers, session timers ***gotry en masse.
Check killboards, corp history, fits anything that you can dig up on their pvp chars. You may have a hard time using the intel but once you start to pvp and fit pvp ships it all falls into place.
Then start getting advice from pvp versed people that will take you under their wing. Try to get some trade secret/tactics/fits/skill sets etc. Learn to fly with an experienced FC, or train one of your own.
Go on "passive defence" or proactive.
Try to give them a "hapless noob char piloting a juicy target (t2 ,something that can be bait fit) and try to bait them with a tanked out decoy. Pin them down and warp in the blob. Consider bringing in older char or "vets" do actually do the dps, since it takes time to train a pvp char for pvp.
Blackbirds is a really good idea, but if you have been deced by serious mercs you are up against a world of trouble. PvP in eve is complex, Unless you fly in f1;f8 blob, even then lots of scenarios will and can happen.
just my 0,2 isk.
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.06.21 17:26:00 -
[11]
I would also like to add: Tell your mission runners to dock up or drop corp for the war, the same with your miners. You can't have these people in space doing their own thing, unless you use them as bait, otherwise they will get ganked and your war targets will only go after the weak fish. In my experience, most war deccing corps will not try to engage a PvP fleet coming after them, unless they know they can win. By removing missioners and miners from the field, you only shorten the war and force your enemy to fight it on your terms, which is either against PvP fleets or not fighting at all.
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Psycho The Rapist
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:08:00 -
[12]
Assuming that you outnumbers them. Pick a hub, have everyone base out of there.
Put half of your pilots in Blackbirds/Scorpions.
Put the other half in Drakes/Ravens.
Use logoffski tactics (Logging off outside the station, get them to engage, log in.) and laugh mercilessly as you frustrate your war-deccers into leaving you in peace.
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Deen Wispa
Gallente Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darryl Ward I would also like to add: Tell your mission runners to dock up or drop corp for the war, the same with your miners. You can't have these people in space doing their own thing, unless you use them as bait, otherwise they will get ganked and your war targets will only go after the weak fish. In my experience, most war deccing corps will not try to engage a PvP fleet coming after them, unless they know they can win. By removing missioners and miners from the field, you only shorten the war and force your enemy to fight it on your terms, which is either against PvP fleets or not fighting at all.
I'm not a big fan of telling corpies to drop corp. It creates a mentality that they can just quit corp anytime a dec occurs and do their own thing while the rest of the team tries to fight them. It subconsciously creates a quiters mentality and only continues to shelter them from the reality of this game.
I do agree that most of the mission runners/industrialist are liabilities during a dec until they wisen up. Some will and some won't. I'd rather keep them in the war so they can learn to adapt. Or die. Darwinism.
Otherwise letting them quit just creates more sheltered empire bears and there's enough of those already.
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:55:00 -
[14]
I was checking out killboard history of your enemy and it was telling that guys who wardeced you are not really pro pvpers, they do have some pvp experience but on my view point they could be easily beaten up badly.
So OP is right, little advice and training and maybe recruiting experienced FC could lead to victor !
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