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Dyrallanex
J0Y Division MORE.DPS
0
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Posted - 2012.09.13 08:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This idea seemed sort of obvious to me, so I was shocked to see it wasn't in the commonly proposed ideas thread.
What I'd like to suggest, and I have trouble thinking of a reason not to immediately implement it, is to create a PVP system where players are separated by skill level. This would be a completely voluntary system, with the existing PVP system remaining intact.
The problem I would like to suggest a solution to is the inaccessibility of PVP. It seems that to do anything other than tackling in fleets, months or more of training is required. This is VERY discouraging for those who are interested in EVE's PVP aspect.
My specific suggestion is to implement a factional warfare-style system where players are separated, either through ranks or factions, by skill point count(perhaps only counting SP in combat skills), and only at war with those in a similar SP count.
This could be created in multiple ways:
New factions could be created to fight for, for example NPC corporations(Aliastra, Fedmart, Lai Dei) or criminal groups(Guristas, Angel Cartel), with the player being passed up to 'subsidiaries' or other connected groups as skills are gained(perhaps borrowing the SP counts used in clones?).
Different ranks in an existing faction created, with the player only being at war with those of the same rank.
This could even be fleshed out to allow more than just combat ship to combat ship fighting. For example, a Iteron pilot could take a PVP mission to fly goods from one system to another, while the other faction sends similar skilled pilots against him.
To prevent players from sticking to this lower-level PVP as skills are gained, it could be discontinued above a certain SP 'ceiling'.
This would make PVP more accessible to new, low skilled players or those who are transitioning or looking to diversify from an industry background. It would prevent that discouraging conversation when a hopeful newbie discovers that in EVE, there is a long waiting period before PVP is anything more than a one sided slaughter.
I would greatly appreciate this idea being considered. A CCP response would be awesome. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
160
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Posted - 2012.09.13 09:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
GB2WoW |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
14
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Posted - 2012.09.13 10:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
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Dyrallanex
J0Y Division MORE.DPS
0
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Posted - 2012.09.13 10:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not a WoW fan actually, I'm also not sure how that response makes...any sense at all.
Are you saying that only a 'stupid WoW player' would want to be able to PvP without waiting months on skill training? |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
652
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Posted - 2012.09.13 10:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thread cleaned of trolls. If you can't post something relevant and sensible, best not to post at all - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Manfred Hideous
TOHOKU 9.0
2
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Posted - 2012.09.13 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:Thread cleaned of trolls. If you can't post something relevant and sensible, best not to post at all - ISD Type40.
You missed the OP's troll. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
562
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Posted - 2012.09.13 13:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can see how this would inspire many pilots to be quite passionate in responding.
Our PvP system owes a lot of it's aspects to simple arbitrary decisions on the part of devs.
That doesn't make it perfect, but it does mean most pilots are faced with the same challenges. Here is where it starts being twisted. It is the very nature of warfare to be unfair. This game emulates warfare on several levels, so it should not surprise anyone that pilots seek advantage wherever and however it can be found.
If this means fitting a ship to destroy a target before Concord's NPC ships show up to stop it, then this opens up potential targets that would otherwise assume they were not threatened. There are costs to using this tactic, so many consider those costs to balance it.
Either solo or in groups, it seems pilots try to only engage when they think they have an advantage.
Here is your obstacle: Your idea is neither fair nor unfair, but like the choices made by the devs way back in time, it is arbitrary. You would change where advantages can be had, so you would upset the work many have gone through in order to have these same advantages.
You need to sell the idea to the ones who see their advantages threatened.
And forget fairness, that doesn't come into this at any point. This is the sandbox. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1382
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Posted - 2012.09.13 15:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
join any faction warfare corp, you'll see plenty fo pvp soon enough TK is recruiting |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
179
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Posted - 2012.09.13 16:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
How do you plan on stopping "smerf accounts" from farming noobies? |
Selaya Ataru
Pink Kitten Kommando To The Moon
22
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Posted - 2012.09.13 16:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Whats so bad about tackling in fleets? Unless your corp is a pile of crap, its not like you're a second class citizen or anything if you fly a tackling ship.
If people thread you in fact like a second class citizen because you dont have 20m sp laugh at them and find a new corp.
There is absolutely no need for any form of sanctioned pvp. Any form of sanctioned pvp will just ruin open world sandbox pvp and make the game worse. |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
18
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Posted - 2012.09.13 16:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dyrallanex wrote:. It would prevent that discouraging conversation when a hopeful newbie discovers that in EVE, there is a long waiting period before PVP is anything more than a one sided slaughter. .
How so? Miner realizes he made a mistake at say 6 months and wants to blow stuff up. His sp would be the same as....a player you started pvp at month 2 and has 4 months of playtime. Your rank has them the same. Miner is still getting beat up a few times even 1 v 1 unless a natural pro at pvp.
Even better, an sp rank for the long haul carebears screws em. I have known peeps in 0.0 who beared for 3-4 years and then one day said I wanna pod people. They needed seasoning, just like a 3 month player does. that 4 year bear is now in a bracket he will get his ass kicked in daily now. yeah he's got the sp but to be fair to him he needs to be going against the noobs who fly a cane just as bad as he does in pvp for a bit.
And pvp done right is a slaughter. hell that is basic miltary tactics used in rl. No man won any wars dying for his country. He won them by making that poor bastard on the other side die for his..... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
509
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Posted - 2012.09.13 17:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
First off, Additionally, no matter what ship you fly, only a fraction of your combat skills effect that ship. A 100m sp character might have a slight advantage or disadvantage over a 20m sp character depending on how each pilot focused their skillpoints.
More importantly, skillpoints only matter to a point in EvE. A 10m sp character can easily destroy a 100m sp character when dueling heads up. How you fit your ship, how you start the engagement, and how you fly your ship during the engagement all have MAJOR impacts on the outcome. Sure, a brand new player, that seriously lacks in support skills needs to skill up to be effective. However, with eve's skill tree, when an all-primary-support-skills-at-IV character (3 week) engages an all-primary-support-skills-at-V character (3 Month), the victor is primarily determined by Fittings, engagement circumstances, and in-combat flying... and skillspoints become much less important.
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Dyrallanex
J0Y Division MORE.DPS
0
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Posted - 2012.09.13 20:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't see why you guys find this idea so objectionable. It wouldn't take away anyone's advantage, it would just allow newer players to have an early opportunity to PVP, without having to wait months to get millions of SP. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
391
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Posted - 2012.09.13 20:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dyrallanex wrote:I don't see why you guys find this idea so objectionable. It wouldn't take away anyone's advantage, it would just allow newer players to have an early opportunity to PVP, without having to wait months to get millions of SP.
You are ill-informed: PvP in EVE requires neither an extensive pool of skillpoints nor expensive ships. Nor is it in ANY way "inaccessible."
Try joining RvB, EVE uni, or something. There are people that will teach you to PvP. How you fly is much more important than what you fly or how many SP you have, and you wouldn't learn good techniques and habits from fighting other newbies (or with other newbies) anyway. |
Anhenka
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
47
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Posted - 2012.09.13 20:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dyrallanex wrote:I don't see why you guys find this idea so objectionable. It wouldn't take away anyone's advantage, it would just allow newer players to have an early opportunity to PVP, without having to wait months to get millions of SP.
We call that Red vs Blue, or Eve-Uni.
Taking players early on and purposely allowing them to isolate themselves from the rest of the eve sandbox for pvp? Bad idea. Let them start small and work their way up through shiptypes and experiences.
Lets take aplayer with 10 mil SP in PvP, isolated since birth in your side system.
He has a few hundred kills, and thinks he's hot ****.
He goes and joins a group in nullsec or lowsec that focuses on PVP, but he has no practical experience in tackling without dying, group PvP, broadcasts, ship roles, etc. Functionally speaking, he's more ignorant and useless than even 1 million SP characters who started in the normal system and grew up learning how to PvP in a group in the "RL" Eve environment. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
892
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Posted - 2012.09.13 21:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Lets take aplayer with 10 mil SP in PvP, isolated since birth in your side system.
He goes and joins a group in nullsec or lowsec that focuses on PVP, but he has no practical experience in tackling without dying, group PvP, broadcasts, ship roles, etc. Functionally speaking, he's more ignorant and useless than even 1 million SP characters who started in the normal system and grew up learning how to PvP in a group in the "RL" Eve environment. Pretty much this. "Crawl before you can walk... walk before you can run."
This is not a game where you can "be the hero" right from the get go. You have to work your way up and actually learn how certain mechanics work in which situations. The skill system aids in this effort by effectively "throttling" new players... so they MUST work with the ships at their disposal and figure out how to apply them as effectively as possible... which is a concept/mentality that transfers well once the newbie gains access to bigger, tougher, and more expensive stuff.
Also... for the record... once a newbie has most of his/her "core skills" up to level 4 or 5 (takes about 2 or so months... 3 if you add in some "fun" skills)... the line "separating" a newb and veteran becomes "blurred."
On a personal note: I've been seeing a few RvB guys joining up with Faction Warfare recently... and they struggle in organized gangs (with it's many nuances and "rules") and utterly crap their pants when faced with a battlecruiser or battleship in their frigate. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2012.09.14 00:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dyrallanex wrote:I don't see why you guys find this idea so objectionable. It wouldn't take away anyone's advantage, it would just allow newer players to have an early opportunity to PVP, without having to wait months to get millions of SP.
you can be in an interceptor in 1.5 months easy. This would be your intro ship to pvp for many 0.0 places as well as other structured places (FW, RvB which have reds to shoot and no concording....do not use inty for piracy on gates lol). It was in fact the ship I flew when I went to 0.0 at 1.5 months (i found a noob friendly home, all they asked is no tears on lost inty's and that I stick mostly to a training plan they set up to get me spun up faster and the plan looked pretty good so all good with that) .
yeah you wait a month. need those support skills. And tbh, this month timeframe is your make isk stage. More isk in wallet, more fun you can have.
Noob in inty frees up a player to be BC/support. Moar bc/support measn someone cna bump up to +1 bs. Or at base value, its the nooby noob who finds the bubble camp scouting 20 BS' before the BS' find it the hard way. Very vital role there for the nooby noob. Billions of isk of ships move based solely on his reports in comms of system clear or not clear.
Now is inty the glam of the (good) youtube videos. No. But its the start of the path to there. Where you learn key ideas there are no skillbooks for. There is no "Detect Bait" skill you can train to 5. that learned starting on inty when you tell fc there is a lonesome drake, arazu, other known bait ships sitting all alone and not reacting to you being in local and fc makes the call to ignore. that drake could be asleep. The arazu, yeah, probably baiting.
there is no "I will not go after drone boats when I have crap for tracking" skilbook either you can train. this learned by going I think I got this vexor, you take too long to kill its drones and.....they + vexor kill you. Doh, guess tracking not good enough. |
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