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LarcatOfZion
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.22 19:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: LarcatOfZion on 22/06/2011 19:04:37 CCP should have made this first batch of barbie in space different.
1) A bunch of plain crap. Black t-shirts and what ever that was truly micro on the transaction scale.
2) AND they should have released the monocles et. al. as limited edition vanity items.
If the monocles were limited to 200, and were priced at 5 plex worth of AUR per, they would all be sold out by now, and 1k plex would have been taken out of the system.
2 months later, reskin them, and do a limited run of 1000 priced at 2 plex worth.
Etc.
If they want to take plex out of the system, which I can only assume is the goal given the pricing they put in (because the current pricing is not conducive to new cashflow), then THAT would have been a much better way to do it. If they wanted exclusivity, they should have built in exclusivity.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:44:00 -
[2]
=P
There are a ton of ways this could be done intelligently, and a large part of the problem if the disconnect between the CCP vision of old that the bulk of the vet subscriber base is committed to, and what CCP is doing now in reality. ______________________________
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:45:00 -
[3]
i think the disconnect is between CCP and reality
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Vasaczk
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:47:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Vasaczk on 22/06/2011 23:47:18
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste =P
There are a ton of ways this could be done intelligently, and a large part of the problem if the disconnect between the CCP vision of old that the bulk of the vet subscriber base is committed to, and what CCP is doing now in reality.
While I agree, the [change in] vision has been pretty transparent for some time (regardless of their implementation ability).
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Mu-Shi Ai
The Chrysalis Group
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Posted - 2011.06.23 03:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: LarcatOfZion Edited by: LarcatOfZion on 22/06/2011 19:04:37 CCP should have made this first batch of barbie in space different.
1) A bunch of plain crap. Black t-shirts and what ever that was truly micro on the transaction scale.
2) AND they should have released the monocles et. al. as limited edition vanity items.
If the monocles were limited to 200, and were priced at 5 plex worth of AUR per, they would all be sold out by now, and 1k plex would have been taken out of the system.
2 months later, reskin them, and do a limited run of 1000 priced at 2 plex worth.
Etc.
If they want to take plex out of the system, which I can only assume is the goal given the pricing they put in (because the current pricing is not conducive to new cashflow), then THAT would have been a much better way to do it. If they wanted exclusivity, they should have built in exclusivity.
They're not trying to get people to rush the market. Read the dev blogs sometime. They're trying to ease in the new market, not create a frenzy and introduce massive instability to the overall economy.
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Hwi Ix
Gallente New Eden Trade Union Genesis Invictus
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Posted - 2011.06.23 04:57:00 -
[6]
I agree, the limited edition thing would had sold them out. The whole idea is just kind of lame, just like celestial steeds in world of warcraft... if I ever see anyone with this stuff on (WHEN we're allowed to SEE other people...) I will give them the same, dejected facepalm I gave those celestial steed players.
"The art of flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss" |
knanid volatar
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Posted - 2011.06.23 05:42:00 -
[7]
Edited by: knanid volatar on 23/06/2011 05:43:47
Originally by: Hwi Ix ... I will give them the same, dejected facepalm I gave those celestial steed players.
Is it similar to the facepalm given to ex-Wow players that openly admit their fallacy?
edit - agree entirely with the OP.
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Diotima Saraki
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Posted - 2011.06.23 07:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Diotima Saraki on 23/06/2011 07:06:48
I highly suggest to read the CCP "leak" on EN24.
Basically it makes the argument:
MMO games are a hobby (problem is they aren't taken seriously by society as of yet but that will change).
People like to spend a lot of time and money on their hobbies - example is golf: the average golfer does apparently spend about 3,000$/year on his hobby (in a very broad sense). The emotional connection to the hobby is built through investment of time and money.
CCP's goal is that players should be as invested in EVE as possible and that EVE should take as much of the time/money the customer has allocated for hobby activities as possible.
That's not nice for us as players but to be frank it is by far the most insightful argument I have heard from CCP in a long time - it is a long-run perspective that actually makes sense (although MMOs will have to do some additional work and lobbyism to become truly competitive in variety and social acceptance with RL hobbies).
I can relate to this perspective - I used to play the violin as a hobby (I still do but with much less intensity) - several thousand euro for the instrument itself, probably ~300 euro/year for strings/hair/maintenance/sheet music, about 800 euro/year for lessons, about 1h/day time investment for > 8 years.
The problem is that being able to play the violin at a hobbyist level feels much more satisfying and seems to be more of an achievement to me than being able to play a MMO well. But if I try to look rationally at it this is just a matter of social conventions - playing the violin is not really useful and the skills it teaches (mainly perseverance and maybe getting to know yourself a little better) are not that unique.
So things might change as the WoW generation grows up and with some clever product placement gaming as both a serious hobby and relaxing past-time might become much more acceptable in the future... my mom did pay for violin lessons but would never have paid for - say - Starcraft lessons. On the other hand "mom's/dad's credit card" comments seem to imply that many parents are already quite willing to pay for their children's gaming. We already see typical "non-gamers" invest a lot of money into "social games" and the social taboo that surrounds say WoW (overweight antisocial neckbeard who raids until 2 AM) does not apply to games such as FarmVille.
If you think about things from this perspective 60$ for an indestructible item in a game with a long expected lifespan is high but not grossly overpriced - the 2-3$ "microtransaction" models do on the other hand price themselves out of the "serious hobby" range. A child collecting Yu-Gi-Oh! cards does probably spend more on his hobby than that. The typical money investment just does not match with mainstream adult hobbies and the perceived value suffers.
edit: If you haven't guessed yet - Diotima = Florestan's alt.
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Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.23 07:53:00 -
[9]
Personally, I think they messed up with the introduction of MT and the noble store. Simply because of the pricing. that monocle costs more than a dread.. who's going to buy a monocle instead of a dread, when you look at the average pew pew player.. the only people who will be buying that kind of stuff are either, willing to dish out RL cash for it, the 70 dollars, or are filthy rich ingame and can afford to easily buy something like that.
IMHO, what thye SHOULD have done, was put in some simple stuff, and at much much lower prices, like a factor of 100 lower. While I see the arguement of investing in a hobby, online gaming isn't the same as an offline hobby. As such, prices of vanity stuff should reflect that. Especially at the start. More expensive items can be added later, once the idea is ingrained, and people's greed takes over. Still, the monocle is stupidly insanely expensive.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.06.23 08:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Diotima Saraki That's not nice for us as players who have grown used to cheap gaming but to be frank it is by far the most insightful argument I have heard from CCP in a long time - it is a long-run perspective that actually makes sense.
Does it? By choosing any other hobby you are allowed to sell the hobby stuff you own/collected. People might be tempted to invest thousands of dollars into EVE vanity items - but as RMT is not allowed those items become worthless immedately from legal real world trade perspective.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.23 08:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Diotima Saraki
I highly suggest to read the CCP "leak" on EN24.
Basically it makes the argument:
MMO games are a hobby.
People like to spend a lot of time and money on their hobbies - CCP's example is golf: the average golfer does apparently spend about 3,000$/year on his hobby (in a very broad sense). The emotional connection to the hobby is built through investment of time and money.
What the CCP Lead Designer misses are little but fundamental details:
- MMOs have born as the cheap alternative to hobbies. You can pull just so much before people will just say "screw this, if I have to pay like an hobby, then I will switch to a true hobby for real!"
RL example: If McDonalds started charging like a French Gourmet Restaurant then people would just switch to the real thing.
- Not everyone play from 1st world countries. There's many where a MMO basic sub is already pushing a lot into the maximum allowed for entertrainment. If (actually, WHEN) CCP will slip from vanity to power items, those affected guys won't take it ligthly.
- The life tenor of a lead designer allows him to have an iPhone, to buy the stated League Of Legends toys, to have a nice car and muuuuch more. Not everyone are on the same level. Some players might be factory labourers who have to jump all sort of miracles to afford entertrainment.
Again, we ALL see that CCP WILL slip from vanity to power items, those who played MMOs to finally be out of being in a lesser RL status, will have it slammed in their face all day long again. This will make them not happy.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.06.23 11:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
- Not everyone play from 1st world countries. There's many where a MMO basic sub is already pushing a lot into the maximum allowed for entertrainment. If (actually, WHEN) CCP will slip from vanity to power items, those affected guys won't take it ligthly.
Not EVERYONE plays from 1st world countries, but the majority still is (and anyway, the definition of 1st world in current day and time is shifting, an upper-middleclass kid from Brazil might not be 1st world in a traditional sense, but he probably has more to spend than a average person in Europe or the US nowadays).
The average age in EVE is also higher than other MMO's, so if you profile the typical EVE player it will probably be somthing like: - white 30ish person with job.
Also, other MMO's have shown that MT can be succesfull and that's not surprising, if player are willing to spend ridiculous amount of time (let's be honest among each other) and given the profiling they are willing to spend some RL cash on vanity items.
What we're currently seeing is likely the result of a debate between anti MT and pro MT within CCP. And as a compromise they settled for high-value vanity items.
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Whiteknight01
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Posted - 2011.06.23 11:07:00 -
[13]
Btw, League of Legends is free to play, but also uses a micro transaction system.
The bull**** prices might still be a trial run of some sort. One can hope, right?
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Murev Vorchilde
Caldari End Game.
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Posted - 2011.06.23 13:10:00 -
[14]
im from a 1st world country and $70 is stil 2 months worth of spare income not that i would wear a monocle even if it was a free option but sooner or later they will add something worth having.
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Brut D'or
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Posted - 2011.06.23 13:49:00 -
[15]
Theres an old salesmans saying. It goes "Sell to the masses, live with the classes. Sell to the classes, live with the masses." In case anyone can't figure out the meaning of this I'll break it down; if you sell highly exclusive items to the few who are very wealthy you will make less money than if you sell large turnover items to the many who are average.
Related to this is the notion of 'hook'. What CCP should have done here is start the store off with very low cost items, to get people used to the idea of spending in the store. Then as people get used to spending money in this way, slowly introduce more vanity items at higher prices until eventually you get to the level of vanity items that consume large amounts of PLEX (which they seem desperate to get out of the economy).
Theres also the sales concept of 'three price points'; always give the customer at least three price points, something really expensive, something in the middle and something really cheap. Customers like to feel like they have options. When you set a customer up for a sale and present them three price points you have generally already figured them out and know that they will go for the middle price point item. The current selection from the Nob shop is far from this really.
Also notice how there are three items for male avatars and four for female? They kind of did a half assed job of that too, should have been several for the male and a few dozen for the female. They needed to give people an impression of selection and an impression that the customer can get a 'unique' look by mixing and matching. Theres no significant mix and match in the store at the moment.
From a sales perspective, this whole arrangement is just really beginner mistakes.
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Carrion Regardless
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Posted - 2011.06.23 13:58:00 -
[16]
The hobby scenario is spot on, when I started playing EVE that was exactly the justification I took. It was the first pay to play game that I discovered, and the only game I have subscribed to.
I have been to several fanfests and CCP has had the opportunity to make money off of me. The online store failed because the delivery charges and taxes payable (on the item AND the delivery charges) were quite unreasonable.
My problem with the vanity items is that they are not destroyable and as such add nothing to the game. There is no researching, manufacturing, mining or any interaction aspect in these items at all, and as such they are outside of the "Sandbox" ethos of the game.
CCP has invested heavily to integrate everything in the game so that invested time and effort equates to profit and fun. Vanity items just do not belong in the cold, harsh environments of eve unless they are made, sold, traded and exploded by the players.
Now, limited run BPC's of vanity items, where a player would have to put atleast some effort into making the item. That would be more acceptable.
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Xinlisupreme
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Posted - 2011.06.23 16:09:00 -
[17]
>mfw these vanity items will copy real life social classes into the game.
"you live in developing country? I look down upon you through my $70 monocle. sacrebleu." we're the unfixed, the ever mixed up. here's where we nog longer occur. |
Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.23 16:29:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tom Hagen on 23/06/2011 16:30:32 Just one question, was it worth it?
Edit: Damnit it dosent show on the forum pic
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.23 18:18:00 -
[19]
What they should have included are t-shirts with interesting eve-related writing. Like maybe "I got podded and all I got was this lousy t-shirt".
Or maybe like CafePress let -us- create those custom t-shirts.
Oh hell who am I kidding.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.23 18:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tom Hagen Edited by: Tom Hagen on 23/06/2011 16:30:32 Just one question, was it worth it?
Edit: Damnit it dosent show on the forum pic
Nice monocole. One problem: it makes you look like you got a busted right eye. You're going to have to change the angle of your head.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2011.06.23 22:29:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 23/06/2011 22:29:39
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Diotima Saraki
- MMOs have born as the cheap alternative to hobbies. ... - Not everyone play from 1st world countries. ... - ... Some players might be factory labourers who have to jump all sort of miracles to afford entertrainment ...
All excellent points.
The only notion I have to contest, is that MMOs are cheap alternatives to hobbies.
Classic MMOs are hobbies that require a comperable low investment of cash but a very high investment of time.
The amount of productivity the average MMO player invest in a game is actually immense and represents thousand and thousands of dollars.
Because of the social nature of MMOs, that productivity actually benefits the product of the company. Without its players, EVE would be nothing.
The greatest fallacity of CCPs current communication cluster**** is, that it displays disregard to the fact, that their customers are their most important stakeholder.
A sandbox without the children playing in it, is just a big heap of dirt.
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Evesino
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Posted - 2011.06.23 22:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Evesino on 23/06/2011 22:46:47 Mis-click, cant seem to be able to delete an empty post, not to wonder why an empty post can be posted the first place.
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Lost Flower
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.23 22:50:00 -
[23]
But what are you guys talking about? This whole damn thing was unthoughtful.
Why the hell would I pay for some very expensive ingame skin that only I can look at? Not even 1 cent.
How many of you guys turned off Station Environment? In my corp it was 100% of the 35+ players that was online.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.23 22:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lost Flower But what are you guys talking about? This whole damn thing was unthoughtful.
Why the hell would I pay for some very expensive ingame skin that only I can look at? Not even 1 cent.
Well I'd bothered to buy something if anything good actually came out. No necklaces, no cool Amarr-ish headpieces, no scarves...
Originally by: Lost Flower
How many of you guys turned off Station Environment? In my corp it was 100% of the 35+ players that was online.
I had to. The option is global so if you enable it for one client, all the next ones also load with CQ and kill the computer. If it had been account-tied I'd have kept 1 CQ up - no need to keep GPU burning up for i.e. trade and industry alts.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Lost Flower
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Well I'd bothered to buy something if anything good actually came out. No necklaces, no cool Amarr-ish headpieces, no scarves...
Really? Even if you are the only one that can look at it?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lost Flower
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Well I'd bothered to buy something if anything good actually came out. No necklaces, no cool Amarr-ish headpieces, no scarves...
Really? Even if you are the only one that can look at it?
I have all I ever wanted, I have several investments running, 1 outstanding buy order for Towaoc's shares and today I made 500M doing nothing. Why should I care and stay without a necklace? It makes me feel good.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:38:00 -
[27]
I wouldn't pay to make myself look like some GI Joe, which is all that seems to be on offer atm.
I suspect they will release more & More clothing lines in time.
The only thing that has my eye atm is the limited edition Quafe t-Shirt. Contemplating going long on one of those.
Why?
well, why not, who cares how i chose to spend my isk.
I would like to see some more clothing though. scarf would be nice ___ iCandy Bonds
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AnakieNine
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Posted - 2011.06.24 00:19:00 -
[28]
Edited by: AnakieNine on 24/06/2011 00:20:53 I personally haven't connected to the servers yet however I will be unlikely to buy anything or at the very least I will wait. From what I have been reading it feels wrong. This is a game, and in general losing to a game doesn't provide the experience players are really seeking. Unless you have the opportunity to fight back and win down the track. So buying something now that gives the impression of reducing massively in value in the future feels like I'm setting myself up for a loss. True not a pvp loss but still a loss. Especially when its just a visual addition. If CCP however stated that they are definitely going down the high end hobbyist track and trying their best to stay with that model. Yes I would buy one.
Also shouldn't we be getting item itself all the time? It's much more fun and game related to receive a BPC and have to make the item. Eve is about building as much as anything else. Nothing like investing yourself a little in its development and receiving a greater personal appreciation for it.
To put my view into perspective. Should CCP provided a really worthwhile product; say some highly visible one of a kind or limited (1-5) product. I would seriously consider investing up to a trillion isk for it. Something like station bars but not for the masses. Perhaps something that has a high social use or benefit. It has to have something with a high level visibility or social worth. I'm sick of everything being in reach for for any actively available 6 month old account.
I'm sure a few other probably think the same. Extreme high end players really do need something worthwhile apart from battle toys... Something to encourage others to strive for similar things in the industrial or social areas of the game.
I would love to see a system that somehow involves players in the market hubs of eve. Imagine an in-station system allowing this kind of set-up in eve.
As for the high end hobbyist market. I know of a business orientated sim/flash game that has had several players spend over 100k on it. Quite amazing really.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.24 01:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mu-Shi Ai
Originally by: LarcatOfZion Edited by: LarcatOfZion on 22/06/2011 19:04:37 CCP should have made this first batch of barbie in space different.
1) A bunch of plain crap. Black t-shirts and what ever that was truly micro on the transaction scale.
2) AND they should have released the monocles et. al. as limited edition vanity items.
If the monocles were limited to 200, and were priced at 5 plex worth of AUR per, they would all be sold out by now, and 1k plex would have been taken out of the system.
2 months later, reskin them, and do a limited run of 1000 priced at 2 plex worth.
Etc.
If they want to take plex out of the system, which I can only assume is the goal given the pricing they put in (because the current pricing is not conducive to new cashflow), then THAT would have been a much better way to do it. If they wanted exclusivity, they should have built in exclusivity.
They're not trying to get people to rush the market. Read the dev blogs sometime. They're trying to ease in the new market, not create a frenzy and introduce massive instability to the overall economy.
CCP.
The most successful "We don't want to sell you any of this crap!" launch in the history of the World since Ghenghis Khan took up selling Avon door to door.
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Laser Purification
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Posted - 2011.06.24 03:50:00 -
[30]
My hobby is gaming not Eve. My hobby is not going to change by my game certainly can if CCP continue to but more effort on a cash-shop than actual game play.
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