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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arachas on 23/06/2011 21:07:12 Hello all im new to eve i did some research about trading studied few regions yet i still have questions about it first of all let me explain which part of trading im interested in i want to buy low sell high i wanna do all my trading while im sitting in my captain's quarter that means no hauling around so here are my questions
1.Is it rlly profitable buying low selling high? i mean i found some items which are pretty active according to price chart and got some good profit but when i try to set buy orders or sell orders someone happens to undercut my prices do i need to keep an eye on my orders and undercut others all the time? i dont want to be online whole day
2.Should i prefer crowded trade hubs,mission hubs or less secure areas to do trading?
Im not asking for specific details such as which items should i sell or where im just a new guy who wants to start trading dont go hard on me all i ask is few tips thanks that'll be all
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Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Arachas
1.Is it rlly profitable buying low selling high?
More profitable than buying high and selling low, that's for certain.
Originally by: Arachas
i mean i found some items which are pretty active according to price chart and got some good profit but when i try to set buy orders or sell orders someone happens to undercut my prices do i need to keep an eye on my orders and undercut others all the time? i dont want to be online whole day
Everyone is in the same boat. Its tricky but manageable. And you don't need to be online 23/7
Originally by: Arachas 2.Should i prefer crowded trade hubs,mission hubs or less secure areas to do trading?
It depends on whether you want high volume low profit, or low volume high profit. Not trying to be obtuse but that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:36:00 -
[3]
1.is it better than missioning,mining or ninja salvaging isk-wise?
2.so what can i do when they undercut me continously?
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:40:00 -
[4]
I don't trade to make isk, I trade to make friends.
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I don't trade to make isk, I trade to make friends.
What? dont go off-topic plz
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Xinlisupreme
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:36:00 -
[6]
You can't expect to have the whole market to yourself. It's pretty obvious that other traders will try to play the same market. You're not the only trader around. we're the unfixed, the ever mixed up. here's where we nog longer occur. |
Vasaczk
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:47:00 -
[7]
You're not going to get all that much help other than what's already been explained since trading is the most active form of PvP in the game, and thus people don't want to give "free" advice.
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:07:00 -
[8]
Now it was a while ago I started out, so I dont exactly trade that way anymore. But if you are in Jita, if you have 100+ orders you can pretty much start at the top go all the way down the list in updating orders. Then you can start over again from the top. It will not even take you a day before you realize what items you need to check every 5 minutes and sort out at what interval you need to update the rest of the orders.
You will soon also see what trade item have alot of active traders in them or not, if you constantly gets undercut by the same order, I advice you to try and buy one item and add the player on your watch list. Often it turns out that you are competing with the same player on several items. So you will have to start to look at his orders when they was last change ad when you see him online, try to figure out he behaviour pattern and bedtime and if possible change your order after he has left the game.
But then again in Jita you will probably compete with a lot of really active traders and even more laid back ones.
I would advice you also to diversify, if you cant control one or a few items that are highly profitable make sure that you have a lot of small orders instead so even if you get undercut on 50% of them you still making money of the other 50+ orders.
After you get a feel for it decide what items you still want to trade in that suits your game style.
There are alot more to it but I wish you good luck, and starting out as a trader is a bumby road. I can honestly say that I dont think I would do it today
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:08:00 -
[9]
Thank you tom your answer explained alot Btw by saying i dont trade that way anymore what do you mean can you tell me what type of trading are you doing? not specific details ofc is it speculation or something? its np if you dont want to answer this question
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.25 00:45:00 -
[10]
Bump
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Enoch Schuldenberg
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Posted - 2011.06.25 01:20:00 -
[11]
I'd call myself a starting trader too, but can't subscribe to an idea of doing station trading. In any case you'll need some relatively significant amount to start with. Say you have 100kk already. Sort of a significant amount for a starting player (it is for me at least!). And in station trading (the way as it was already explained, where you place like 100 orders for different items). If you distribute it proportionally, it's just 1 million per item. Pretty low, isn't it. Moreover, the profit wouldn't be distributed equally proportionally. You'll be stuck for quite some time with some illiquid trades, not earning anything on them.
So I say you get your hands dirty and do hauling trading for starters. It can earn your isk faster - look around and you'll see some really good trades with high margins and when not, you can always get to hauling ore and minerals, where you can always finds some market inefficiency to cover, which will result in 0.5-1kk in your pocket. And as your funds grow larger, you can gradually transfer to station trading. At least, that's how I see it. I'm open to criticism of course :)
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.25 09:19:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Arachas on 25/06/2011 09:25:07 I see.I will be focusing on hauling first then.BTW i should use buy orders to buy goods for hauling and selling orders to sell them right? instead of buying instantly from station and selling instantly to other just asking to clarify
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Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.06.25 10:23:00 -
[13]
You should trade regionwide in a region of your choice. You should set regionwide buy orders and sell any inventory thus acquired in situ. Insofar as watching paint dry is marginally more interesting than hauling, no pro trader ever moves stuff : at least not to start with.
In order to sell stuff remotely you should train marketing skill. If you position yourself somewhere in the centre of a region you can make do with marketing4 for a long time since when you start serious trading you have many skill training bottlenecks to get through
Incidentally, contrary to what most people say pro traders buy high and sell low.
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Arianna Satellizer
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Posted - 2011.06.25 16:36:00 -
[14]
Key to successful and lasting trading is to know how to make other people all your bidding while stealing their cash. Buy high sell low has been the fastest, most effective means for me. Also make sure to abuse the leemur effect. Most people are willing to jump the cliff for you. Just have to coax them the right way.
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Arachas
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Posted - 2011.06.25 18:52:00 -
[15]
Thanks for answers great info above.Yet i have few questions
I didnt get the content of buy high sell low.What exactly buy high sell low is? placing buy orders with high price and issuing sell orders with low price or just buying instantly from current orders?
Trading ways suggested above are better than hauling goods(isk wise)?
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EmmaFromMarketing
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Posted - 2011.06.25 19:48:00 -
[16]
I think what the two previous posters are referring to is to not put buy orders 0.01 above the highest buy order if the buy orders are what I would call price gouging - and not put your sell orders up 0.01 below the lowest sell order - the presumption being that you will get better volume if you are prepared to take a reduced margin. This would be correct for some items but incorrect on others e.g. if you were trading high volume T2 mods in Jita this would make no sense.
Tom Hagens post above is probably the most useful to you at this stage of your career.
The key is actually trading and getting to know the market for different items, this will not happen overnight but if you persevere, pay attention and research it will pay off.
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:43:00 -
[17]
*WARNING* **WALL OF TEXT**
Sorry Arachas I am not ready to kiss and tell all of my secrets on the forum and to be honest I will most likely not tell them to a random john in a convo either ;-)
Enough said is when you have enough ISK you either start to be a bit lazy about it or you have some kind of disorder if you cant handle the fact that all of your capital hasent turned over in the last 24h or so.. Only way for me to handle that would be to give it away and that is definitly bad for my ROI.
Since you are new to EVE I would recommend to choose a faction you belive house the trade hub you want to be in. Jita 4-4 has a Caldari corporation, Amarr has an amarr corporation and Dodixie has a Gallente corporation, just a few examples of locations there are more places out there all depending on what you are looking after. As a trader it is important to have standing, it will help you if and when you want to refine something or reducing the fees involved with setting up market orders. Pick one of those corporation you belive that you want to trade in later one, pick the location where the best agent are for that corporation. Now a days it goes by security standing. I would advice you to stay out of low sec thou so 0.5 or higher.. You will have to do some research because for several reasons one location might not be good out of a mission runners view. Easiest thing to do is go there and look at how busy the system is. As soon as there is 100+ people in there, you will have competition on the market. Needless to say is that you will have it in smaller hubs also but the intrest to compete arent as high in those locations.
Look at the market and see if someone else is providing goods in that area (station) if they are, they will most likely try hard in the beginning to scare you of by updating their order often (or if they themself are mission runners they just do it in between mission) and try to reduce your profit by lowering their price in huge leaps. Just hang in there! A second option is to look at what they are not selling and try to expand the market in that location. The more goods there is at that location the more likly it will be that a mission runner choose to stay in the location and buy from you rather then traveling 4 jumps to earn a few 100k's
The reason I want you to go there is because I belive that if you are in for the long run standing IS important. When you start out doing missions for that corporation you will eventually end up at the best agent, now the system you trade in. You will have to keep on doing more missions for the lvl 4 agent in order to maximize your standing.
This will let you try several aspect of the game, also being able to fly a ship or two is kind of helpful down the road. I dont tell you to go lvl 5 in those skills just what you need in order to clear the missions. It will help you see what misson runners want and need in some ways. Also it will let you have a second income to help you boost your trade if something goes wrong. Security agent btw are probably something you should look at, since it is more likely to lose ships and needing ammo and such, with those agents and it is better for your trade.
I brought this up as an option for you since you already seemed to think updating orders is a bit annoying. Finding a spot that are a bit slower will let you learn the market at a healthier pace. You wont run the same risk to burn out. It will give you time to train skills and prevent you from loosing to much ISK in case something goes wrong. It will let you build up capital to use later on.
Sorry for going back to the mission running part that I dont feel belong in MD but is kind of important in regard to my advice. You can go with security agents that most people seem to choose, this will let you get standing with the right corporation from the begining and also it will let you fly some combat ship if that is of intrest for you..
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:48:00 -
[18]
Or you can pick a corporation that has R/D agents that later on (with the right standing) gives you a nice passive income, also going with them will most likely cause you to train some kind of hauler skills that will help you in your trading.
If you want to station trade only you need a very active hub and to be very active yourself in updating your orders, that can be accomplished from your captain quarter.
If you want to use Rougehalos advice I would say you would be better off with a hugh ISK pile to help you, as a starting player you most likely dont have that. Some of the things you can buy at a region wide buy order is way below the production cost and hence are really easy to make a profit from. Thing is you could make a bad decision and end up buying huge quantitys of something you cant sell over a short period of time, and you will have locked down substansial amount of your ISK. Can you afford that? Another thing is at some point if you are low on isk and cant afford to just stock up indefinitly you might be forced out in a industrial to pick up your goods to relist them at a hub. Do you feel ready to go out in low sec in an industrial to transport goods, and can you afford the loss if sh*t hit the fan?
I would go for 2 or 5 jumps buy orders. If you are at some kind of hub you can most likely ignore the station you are trading from and place your buy order below theirs (it is almost always more expensive in hubs because of station traders) that way you can get the goods from the surrounding area at a cheaper cost, either you just try and resell them at the location or you transport them in to your hub and get an advantage against the station traders since you bought your goods cheaper. If you cant get enough from that order. Place another one as a station order above your competition. It is no point in being the highest bidder in a hub with a buy order that have any significant range, you will just raise the price of the item in the area. the people that would sell it 1 or 2 jumps out will most likely sell it anyway, it has just cost you more to get it.
Also People are lazy and/or smart, at a 4 jumps range from a trade hub without any competition you can sell ammo or drones to mission runners with 100% markup. You can most likely buy stuff directly from a market hub and go out and sell it in those places, just a warning it can be slow going espcially if you have made the wrong choices about location and goods :-P
The concept of buying high and selling low, I would say it is just what it sounds like. When you place a buy order you are placing it high, 0.01ISK higher then the next one. When you place a sell order you are placing it low, 0.01ISK lower then the next one.
I dont belive it has nothing to do with what amount you outbid someone since in reality, if you dont know what you are doing (most people have no rational thought behind doing it other then try to **** of the competition), going more then 0.01 ISK is useless..
And to answer your question, yes use buy an sell orders, it is not that often you come across a deal that you can buy and resell with direct trade and if you dont know if you should/can do it, Dont!
In the end it is just so many small decisions that will affect you later one, I dont say this is the best way to go, or the only way. I belive it is a sensible way to go at it. You will have to decide for your self how to do it, in EVE almost everything goes. Dont rush it! those of us that are "rich" (depending on who you ask) has either been around a while or got a bit "lucky" (its not all luck) with speculation on the market.
It's almost impossible to cram everything about trade in one post and at the moment I dont want to tell you or anyone else all about it either ;-) Just see this as an advice from me to a new player.
Good luck and have fun!
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Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.06.26 17:04:00 -
[19]
"If you want to use Rougehalos advice I would say you would be better off with a hugh ISK pile to help you, as a starting player you most likely dont have that"
I started with a regional buy order for kestrels.
I currently have about 25b of ships in about 100 locations in my assets.
I'm more or less retired from Eve now mainly cos the thought of listing all those ships fills me with horror :P
It all started with a few kestrels though.
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Roger Alar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 17:24:00 -
[20]
If you want to make isk while just sitting in a station but dont want to station trade you might want to contract all the hauling work using courier contracts.
I use to buy goods from all over teh empire regions and simply contract couriers to first to a station i was using as a regional hub then contract the assembled goods to a trade hub to be sold. With me only needing to move about in shutle every now and then to check orders.
Was making a nice amount making 2b a month with me spending less than 10 hours a month invested.
Best money is in things you dont need to update your orders more than aver few days Some traders can make allot of isk a day but although they get more proportionaly they ahve to put allot more effort in
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Ann Can
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Posted - 2011.07.02 03:02:00 -
[21]
Trends |
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