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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Sri Nova
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2491]
I tried i really did almost 3 hours and i cant catch up . this thread is massive...
what bothers me about the leak is that within that debate there was not any mention on involving the player community into the micro transaction system . Eve has in game mechanics for making a player base micro transaction market become a reality and quite possibly a real income booster to CCP.
A simple example would be the following . In the noble exchange you find the monacle at xxxxxx what ever price . player A. buys monacle . Player A. then takes Monacle and sticks it into a factory to reverse engineer and manages to create a bpo out of it . Player A. then experiments on the bpo to make variations on the monacle red, blue, cross hair monacle, skull and cross bone monacle, etc.. Player A. then turns to the PI portion of eve to manufacture goo so they can fufill the needs of the experimented bpo. Player A. then sells custom monacle on the eve market. where player B. buys it and then abrubtly looses it when he gets ganked at the gate.
This is such a basic idea stemming from your own game mechanics. I am just stunned that there is not even a hint of this ideology in what we have seen thus far. CCP keeps touting sandbox and player base economy but what has been released thus far seems to be more of a distancing from that mentality .
Also the cq code and quite possibly the entire code base needs to be seriously looked into . One game did what you are trying to do now and it worked a whole lot smother with a lot less hardware and a ancient codebase . earth and beyond i know its apple and oranges but cmon if a machine with 50X the horse power are choking on this new code base it should be a warning that something is not right. Especially if earth and beyond pulled off what you have been trying to do for 4 years, 9 years ago. not forgetting that it took them 5 years to release the full game.
that is why i am confused . i know some people have posted this is a lot like when swg failed and in some small way it is because these issues at hand are a disconnect from your player base . Maybe you guys need to take a look at Rebenfield swg developer and make sure you not seeing the slightest hint of deja vu in your company meetings . music the paint dance floor the canvas your body the brush |
Kobayashi Marru
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2492]
Edited by: Kobayashi Marru on 24/06/2011 09:47:01 a specific part of the newsletter made me absolutely livid, so I have to share this
Quote: IÆll give you an example of something I think provides value to our customer, which IÆd like to sell. Right now, you can store 50 personal fittings on our servers. ThatÆs more than enough for the average EVE player, but for a subset of our users, itÆs too small a number. Why not be able to add more storage space for a small amount of money? YouÆd even be able to upgrade it multiple times if you needed and permanently add this benefit to your character, making it even more valuable. And you know what? If you donÆt like paying for this, you can always buy a PLEX off the market, and never have to get your credit card out. I think thatÆs pretty goddamn cool, and IÆm not entirely sure why that makes me ****** to some EVE players.
The problem is that you used to be able to have more then 50 fittings, due to them previously being stored on the user's computer instead of the server. Up until now this made no sense to me(50 fittings is too little even for a 6 month old pilot, it has been frustrating having to delete a fitting every time someone linked a good fit, whatnot), yet now that it shows the goal was to have years where people are accustomed to having more then 50 fittings, remove that feature and limit it to only 50 total, then sell an additional 50 fittings per 200 AUR as a feature! It's just wrong, the creepy kind.
CCP, you should make a rule for yourself. Don't try to sell for AUR anything that was previously available without AUR. It creates unnecessary anger, when there are plenty of things your could create anew and charge in addition to subscriptions.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2493]
Edited by: Miilla on 24/06/2011 09:46:14
I like Ponies.
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Macros Black
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2494]
Originally by: ChromeStriker Edited by: ChromeStriker on 24/06/2011 09:42:33 o/ Hi CCP, or manifest at least
As it seems your reading this thread id like to say good luck, you've stepped on a wasp nest well n truly and i wouldnÆt want that on anyone especially as we eve players arnt always the most patient people.
im personally quite liking incarna, allot of cool things in here (turrets, scanning, walking in stations, the mauler hull ect) cant say i ever planned to use aurum so im not going there lol.
Anywho the important thing that i want to put across is that im still 100% behind you, you have a great unique game that will keep me around a while yet. The problem is that others arenÆt as trusting, and are worrying about people buying ingame effecting... stuff, that you couldnÆt get with old fashioned isk. Tell them this wont happen and they will go back to there normal forum jobs of moaning about how there Cap is the wrong type of yellow and drakes do 22.6 dps more than a titan dooms daying a frigate.
Long live Eve
Problem is they can't tell us this, as the rudder is pointing in this exact direction, Subscription or microtransactions CCP, choose one and I can then choose the mmo I wish to play accordingly.... |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2495]
Edited by: Tappits on 24/06/2011 09:49:21 You don't get to use parley as you dont keep to the code.... this 70/80+ page call out shows you this.
It seems we are mad, Maybe not that mad were we stop paying for our acounts onmass but mad enuff not to exspand and grind as hard as we have been doing for 7/8 years now.
Eve has had a good run over the past 8 years. i am prity shore the resign why its lasting so long is because its NOT like every other MMO out there, this is what makes it special and makes us continue to use/play here.
WIS is not special, its just like 99% of other MMO's out there. EVE is the 1% don't try and make it like the rest.
Make Walking in stations optional Micro transactions are bad yet you still try and stick it in..... Having them in at all will just mean they will be abused at some point by ccp, so for that they should be totally removed forever just to stop the temptation.
This new currency needs removing...... We have ISK...... Sandbox....... All the new things should have been realised to the open market as BPO's like everything else, or invention or something like that so just like everything else in eve We control supply and demand NOT YOU.... WE MAKE THE GAME WHAT IT IS NOT YOU........ I am shore there are a lot of RP type people that are unhappy with the hole walking about part as well.
I would also like a check box in the GFX menu so I don't need to click on a ship and zoom in to see the guns. I would like to just beable to zoom in from what ever my camera is fixed to and look ant any goons working on any ship anywhere. Yes it will effect speed in large fights which is why I would tern it of myself in that situation but for all the other times I would like all guns shown at all times, atleast then I may get to see all these new guns you have spent so much time making.
TLDR: Walking in stations optional Remove AUR and use ISK for everything Have the new Noble Exchange Shop Stocked By us.. The items are made by us, sold by us, used by us. Just like everything else. Turrets on a check box so we can have them on all the time. Never do this again.
EDIT: It seems we are very mad and not just a little as this topic jumped 6 pages in like 30mins ---------------------------------------------- I fail At forums ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2496]
Originally by: Harelip Jenkins
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/06/2011 00:36:49 Here's my big question that I demand an answer to.
Are you going to **** the EVE Online sandbox over for Monetary Transactions or not? If not, all is forgiven. If MTs are going to impact the sandbox, start printing your resumes and god help you all.
The designs we will implement in game will not **** over the sandbox.
Is that supposed to be your answer to the question of whether or not you'll be able to buy non-vanity items with RMT?
I make a living negotiating large scale real estate contracts and spend the majority of my time sitting across the table from attorneys. That is the most lawyeresque redirect, side step answer that I could imagine. why was that the question that you picked out of this threadnaught to answer? Is it because it was easily redirected with feigned indignation in an attempt to change the course of the outrage of the rest of the community? Was it a weak attempt to make the rest of the community to go on the defensive?
CCP's PR department is as out of touch as the rest of their company.
The only answer that will stop the backlash and failcascade is whether or not non-vanity items will be available through RMT. Answer it fully and in a straightforward manner because all you're doing is making things worse.
Friday is my personal deadline. More evasions and non-answers and I'm out. I've got better things to do with my time than forum troll.
Sorry about grammer issues but I'm on my iPhone and typing is a pain in the ***.
Ahmen. CCP, your customers are a lot less stupid than you think they are. --------------------- Countdown to sub running out: 9 days. |
Marcus Vorenius
Instant Annihilation
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:46:00 -
[2497]
"Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills?"
"Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game. /snip"
Interview in Euro Gamer October 2010 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-06-eve-ccp-gives-a-damn-interview?page=3
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raker
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:47:00 -
[2498]
Edited by: raker on 24/06/2011 09:47:38
CCP you wait 2 days, in the hope that the anger will cool down and blow over
Then you post that your sorry that you waited and it was wrong but you cant answer any questions
Come on, this won't wash
Its time the big guns in CCP got out of thier ivory towers and addressed a very hot issue by the ppl who are thier business
Your playerbase are your business, without them you have no business and no jobs
Dont't lose sight of that
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Terrante
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:47:00 -
[2499]
Edited by: Terrante on 24/06/2011 09:50:00 Edited by: Terrante on 24/06/2011 09:48:06 I¦ll be putting in my 2 isk before I leave:
Regarding CQ, I do have some issues with performance but would be certain to find a workaround for them. Having seen many a patch, I know there will be a patch for the patch for the patch etc... Actually I was looking forward to WiS, since first hearing of it in 2007.
Prices for NeX stuff: If you think you can make a profit with those prices, no problem. Go for it. You wouldn¦t have gotten my $.
But the actual reason as to why I will not re-sub my 5 accounts is this:
MT for a in-game advantage is a no-no for any game I play.
Maybe I could have debated with you on that one, but the last straw was reading the newsletter and seeing in what high esteem I as a customer of CCP are held and the silence that followed the outcry of your customers in this forum.
It would have been very easy and cheap to keep me as a customer. A simple response from CCP in the forums saying "sry guys/girls, we¦ll respond to your comments as soon as we have sorted things out" would have been enough.
To keep a customer and keep him happy is ALWAYS cheaper than having to win new customers or winning back customers that left.
It will cost you a LOT to win me back (provided you care)
As a reminder to you CCP:
To me EVE is A game. I have other games I can choose from.
To you CCP, EVE is how you pay your bills. It is the ONLY game in town for you.
It baffles and saddens me deeply that you CCP are willing to act as if you were somebody intouchable. In my RL professional career, I have seen bigger and better companies go down in flames because they did not or could not listen to their customers.
Sad day this.
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Sahvi Morvaalis
R U D E
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:48:00 -
[2500]
Edited by: Sahvi Morvaalis on 24/06/2011 09:50:00
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Sahvi Morvaalis
Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
So... with NeX providing all of our Incarna content... why, exactly, would I build a bar/shop/coffee house/hash bar/whatever in a station?
This was what I was talking about in my earlier post. If the whole point of this expansion is adding immersion to the game, player (or NPC, but preferably player) -run shops in stations providing these items would add to that far more than a little window in the CQ ever could.
Can't charge for it if users build it.
Someone has gone over the features with a fine tooth comb and extracted every last cent from every part of the mechanics.
Features that involved user creation of items locked out CCP selling the items themselves and were quickly scrapped or refactored into MT.
Along with this existing content was removed only to be re-added for cash.
Well that's the thing... they COULD charge for it, but just less money and without the extra added step in their currency system.
Tattoo shop in station, run by NPCs. Tattoos cost ISK, the more large or elaborate, the more ISK they run. More and rarer options could be available only in harder to reach areas of the universe, and could cost more due to the difficulty in obtaining them/rarity.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:49:00 -
[2501]
Why did you implement microtransactions against the will of the community? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Sur Jamkar
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Rura-Penthe
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:49:00 -
[2502]
Originally by: Tappits You don't get to use parley as you dont keep to the code.... this 70/80+ page call out shows you this.
^ This = +1.
___________ Sur Jamkar Exclusive Fan Podcast for Eve Online and Dust514 players. Visit http://podlogs.com/Overwatch514 to listen to Overwatch-514. |
Doom Sentinel
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:49:00 -
[2503]
CCP, please reply or at least glue the thread. This isn't going to be swept under the carpet, no matter what management is telling you right now.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:49:00 -
[2504]
I say let CCP have their fantasy...
Let em stick mictotransactions everywhere...
Then they can claim a new title...
Eve: The worlds EMPTYEST game universe.
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Ydnari
Gallente Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:50:00 -
[2505]
Restore old hangar view, for use when you are docked but still in pod. (restore drag ship to background + double click for cargo functionality)
Add "Leave Pod" button next to "Undock Ship" to leave pod and go to Captains Quarters.
Add a checkbox for "Always Leave Pod on Docking", so that those who want CQ as default get what they want, those who want hangar as default get what they want.
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Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:51:00 -
[2506]
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: Tappits You don't get to use parley as you dont keep to the code.... this 70/80+ page call out shows you this.
^ This = +1.
Indeed , what parley is there when one part isn't active in it?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:51:00 -
[2507]
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: Laine Todako
Originally by: Bunnyy Lebowski
I have included an image of a very quick paint storyboard to help visualize Make Everyone Happy
Take it or leave it, thats my idea on the topic.
^^ THIS
Great Idea.
But but but.. my immersion! why would I stare at my camera drone from the Captains quarters when I can just stare at the camera drone from the confined of my pod.
Besides, implementing this wouldn't solve the performance issues caused by the CQ as it would have to be loaded.
I think you're misunderstanding the idea.
Firstly, as soon as you zoom out, I reckon the main screen would resume its regular programme after a few seconds.
Secondly, the CQ environment would *only* be loaded when you actually press the to-be-added 'Load CQ' button in your hangar.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Elondris Singh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:51:00 -
[2508]
I was in the middle of the crap storm that arose on deviantArt over the Design a Starship Contest. That was nothing compared to this.
I don't envy CCP employees and interns that have to wade through this. ____ "There was a time in the evolution of all things that work, when it didn't" Thoughts on Incarna |
Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:51:00 -
[2509]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Hey Abathur, how's that freedom working out for you?
Aside from watching a game I love getting taken down the road to Crazyville, the view is just fine from where I'm sitting. I'm not talking about just Incarna or MT or whatever; I mean the whole package of miscommunication and poor decision making that has taken place in the past week...
I don't envy the task of CCP in the coming days but, in all honesty, they did it to themselves. Nearly everything that's happened in the past 72 hours could have been done better if CCP had taken a different approach to their messaging.
This thread that 'Pann' started... I can understand why it was done, but she's the wrong person for this particular damage control job. I may be a year removed but I still know how CCP as a corporate culture functions and that there is no such divide as she is trying to suggest from company intentions and even policies. I've got half a dozen old Fearless newsletters that read just like this new one and I've seen first hand what happens when the forums catch fire.
This, however, surpasses anything I've seen previously from either side (players or devs). Too many mixed messages and bad ideas have happened all at once and it's created a perfect storm for people to rage about any and everything. It's all I can do to even keep up with the threads, but I'm trying to read as much as I can so I can keep a measure of how the winds are blowing.
I'm going to start a thread on the CSM forums specifically aimed at this 'new effort' and ask how we can 'help' if only to see who responds and what they have to say. If CCP wants to drive on without using the CSM for the purposes they said they wanted to time and again... well, I'll certainly keep everyone updated as best I can.
Probably an idea to repost this, otherwise it'll get lost in the thread.
INCARNA. EXPERT HOUSING, QUARTER STYLE, New Eden's Blue Lagoon. Coming Soon.
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Lucas Pantelis
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:51:00 -
[2510]
This is the greatest corp infiltration ever. Nice work, Stoffer.
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I Legionnaire
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:52:00 -
[2511]
We're mad if you didn't notice. ------------
Monocles for nothing, ships for free. |
Saska Samar
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2512]
CCP Trolls.
The Greatest Trolls Ever
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2513]
Originally by: Tappits You don't get to use parley as you dont keep to the code....
Damn fine point!
His name was John Turbefield! Truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc Best brief on the details. FREE HELICITY |
KhaelaMensha Khaine
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2514]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 24/06/2011 01:29:14 Honestly Pann the patch deployment is about usual, its not a boot.ini scale technical screw up
Originally by: CCP Pann or tell me what IÆm missing
well the company culture that has been exposed and reinforced with the internal newsletter that CCP has not commented on, and if i may be so bold you have neglected too, even though you cannot have missed an epic thread length in less then 24 hours that has exceeded all other issue threads and of whatever merit.
The player base betrayed, the core that let CCP grow because it was a bunch of Icelandic griefers making a game they wanted to play and turning into a americian cookie cutter corporation out to maximise profits.
CCP seem to have stopped being gamers and turned into investment bankers and Iceland and banks are not a good combination
Hot damn what a post.
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Token Afrodude
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2515]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Firstly, as soon as you zoom out, I reckon the main screen would resume its regular programme after a few seconds.
Secondly, the CQ environment would *only* be loaded when you actually press the to-be-added 'Load CQ' button in your hangar.
Important Parts Bolded. It's a real pity CCP isn't affiliated with Apple, or their manufacturer Foxconn from China.
If they released such a fail patch, they'd all be on the roof flinging themselves off in Shame |
Svennig
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2516]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Soundwave will NOT be fired nor should he. I personally would not like to see one of the driving forces behind the Alliance Tournament and the spiritual leader of Team BFF take a fall for agreeing to present one opposing side of the microtransaction debate in an internal newsletter.
Soundwave SHOULD be fired, but not for this in isolation. For everything he's been pushing through for the last half year which is ill-conceived, badly implemented, and has screwed over the player base.
As spiritual lead of BFF, I can tell you that he has NO friends in alliance level logistics after the harebrained, idiotic, pointless JB changes. He has done more to harm the rank-and-file EVE players than anyone else, by increasing the general tediousness of the game - things that you, CCP, should be working to remove.
This is merely the last in a long line of events which have proven him to be acting in the worst interests of players. And when this is pointed out to him, what does he do? The same thing CCP always does in the face of complaints about staggeringly stupid and overwhelmingly unpopular changes: Sweet **** All.
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Dograzor
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2517]
Quite a ****storm when I check eveO forums this morning. First I would like to say it is somewhat a step forward to come out to the public, but far from what is needed.
A couple points, after spending hours scrolling through the posts:
CCP, you still do not directly tackle the main problem. That being if Aurum will be used in the future for non vanity items. I am not going to be dumb here, and I already know this will be implemented. This has been decided up high in CCP, and there are alot of ego's at stake at CCP who refuse to back down on this idea.
This is why you, CCP Pann, or any other CCP representative has not answered this issue directly. This because the answer you are supposed to give us will enrage the player base to a point even higher then the last week. You can't give us the answer we want to hear at this point, because your management still keeps a stiff lip on this business model.
Now the sad thing for you, and for CCP is that depending on the answer of that question you will be on the verge of losing your veteran playerbase here. Your player base has had enough crap forced down their throats in the last 24 months, and this single issue here will be the making or breaking point of your veteran customer base.
CCP Pann, as you already have noticed, this is not the generic emo raging about some changes or half assed/broken features. We can handle that. This issue, and the combination of PR failescades of the last weeks, is something that your playerbase is taking very seriously, and are willing to act accordingly to it. So I hope your bosses + bizdev's start taking this serious as well, before the mass exodus goes at full speed.
Now concerning the handling of this epic nuclear fallout, I do not hold this personally against you, or CCP Soundwave, or any other dev who has been posting on this forums. You are all entitled to your opinions, and you are just doing your jobs. You are not the ones who need to take the fall for it, your management & bosses need to take responsibility. However, at this point it will be too late to fix this by simple PR or some promises + free SP package. Your management has ignored the player base, it has ignored the player base's spokespersons (CSM), and have brought EVE on the verge of going down the drain. This cannot be fixed, and God help you with dealing with it. The only thing that could turn this around is a radical & progressive change in direction from your company. You once were great, daring, and bold. Now you simply became EA 2.0 who wants to milk the cow.
So please, I implore you, take this seriously. Get your bosses to wake up & to smell the ashes.
-
"We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value" |
N0A
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2518]
Edited by: N0A on 24/06/2011 09:54:09
I cannot believe that for the first time the CCP ***kissers together with CCP alts are not many enough to cope with the "whiners" like they usually do.
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Sur Jamkar
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Rura-Penthe
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:53:00 -
[2519]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: Tappits You don't get to use parley as you dont keep to the code.... this 70/80+ page call out shows you this.
^ This = +1.
Indeed , what parley is there when one part isn't active in it?
We are but humble Pirates
___________ Sur Jamkar Exclusive Fan Podcast for Eve Online and Dust514 players. Visit http://podlogs.com/Overwatch514 to listen to Overwatch-514. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:54:00 -
[2520]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Quote:
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
I was told there was a big obvious yellow message waiting for me later on.
I honestly cannot answer that right now nor should you hear any such answer from me as many have said. As Pann opened this thread, she stated, "I wonÆt be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weÆll start getting some info out tomorrow."
The reason why I am going through every post and not just skipping to the end unless someone tells me to, is so that I can make sure the nuances of the player responses are condensed, fully represented and then transmitted within CCP to the appropriate people. (Jade Constantine's post is one obvious verbatim one amongst)
Player feedback has diligently been sent from our community and PR team since time immemorial and it is my most solemn and serious duty.
It is more important right now than trying to "solve" things or crusading to answer every single post. That was pretty clear after a short second of introspection following my second or third reply at around page 5.
I take this as a yes. I fully expect to see a lawyerly response to this, but, after a number of replies from you and Pann, it's obvious that CCP is dead set on doing this, but will try to weasel its way through. Once again.
Except it won't work this time, I suspect. There are too many eyes watching you for you to twist this as you almost always do.
You can see that in the tone of my reply. --------------------- Countdown to sub running out: 9 days. |
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