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Zarah Jade
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Th0rG0d Are you telling me that this isn't legit either? Looks pretty convincing to me!
oh god! thats awesome.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:21:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/06/2011 04:23:54 Please read this thread:
THE Newsletter.....and CCP Execs
The OP shed some interesting light on just what may be going on at CCP as well as address the topic of this thread.
Originally by: Th0rG0d Are you telling me that this isn't legit either? Looks pretty convincing to me!
OMG, that's hilarious. I needed a good laugh after all this.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Akita T stuff.
No it really wouldnt. There is no compition among guests which is influenced by towel quality. Our $15 month was supposed to give equal access to a playing field. Thats what the game was about.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:28:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/06/2011 04:28:35
Originally by: Ghoest Our $15 month was supposed to give equal access to a playing field. Thats what the game was about.
The moment you could sell GTCs for ISK made this whole idea of "equal access to the playing field for 15$/month" irrelevant. I didn't hear screams of "robbery" and "murder" back then, and I don't hear many of them now ABOUT THAT. As long as all items and services sold in the NEX can be (indirectly) purchased without spending extra RL cash but only ISK, it's still just as level of a playing field as it is (or isn't) now already. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Khamelean
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Victoria Stecker
Thus, we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna environment, nor build that environment around such sales; rather, we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVE experience.
All this is saying is that virtual sales will exits as part of the Incarna environment and in the space faring parts of eve. It also says that neither environment will be built around virtual sales, ie they will only be an optional extra.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akita T I have read it a while ago, and quite honestly, there's nothing in there to really justify a "burn the witch" crusade. The only outrageous things are framed as "what if" scenarios anyway, and the whole mood of the paper is lighthearted banter, not cigar-smoking bespectacled Mr. Burns huddled near a fire made out of dollar bills, like some here act as if it was. For an internal document, it was actually pretty freaking tame and balanced.
There is nothing light-hearted or hypothetical about "Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright." Signature removed. |
Vasentic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Victoria Stecker And in many ways, that's CCP's fault. Rather than coming out as soon as the memo was leaked and saying, "Yep, it's real, and here's why you shouldn't be upset," they assumed that people would be smart and figure it out on their own.
Instead, the echo chamber got going, everyone started agreeing that they should all be ****ed off because everything that someone writes at CCP is automatically canon, and now people want blood - for nothing.
Are you really that dense?
Not once did they say you shouldnt be upset. In fact it was the opposite. They said we know you are mad and we are sorry.
They didnt deny that they had been seriously planning this all along. IF the memo was not serious CCP would have treated it as such and made a post and brushed it off as nonsense.
They have not done this. Hence they know they have been caught with their pants down and are sh!tting br!cks
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Vasentic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Snake Scofield At school many years ago we had compulsory debating. You would be given a topic, and no matter what the topic was both sides of the argument had to be presented.
Sometimes you'd have to argue that America shouldn't have intervened in WW2, slave labour should be allowed, women shouldn't have the right to vote. Just because you'd argue for it didn't mean you endorsed it, it showed you that every debate has two sides and both must be presented to fully understand it.
That's what I see in this newsletter. "Greed Is Good". Anyone who couldn't tell straight away that this was lighthearted has issues. Of course they're going to discuss MT. Its a big issue amongst mmo's today. They can't have a discussion without presenting for and against arguments.
If only you people knew what goes on behind closed doors in politics.
You are missing the point.
The fact is they implemented and are discussing FURTHER implementation of something they PROMISED to NEVER EVER do.
/thread.
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Covert Kitty
Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:43:00 -
[39]
Quote: The moment you could sell GTCs for ISK made this whole idea of "equal access to the playing field for 15$/month" irrelevant.
I agree to a certain extent. I don't support plex, so at least I'm fully consistent. However plex really doesn't have any effect on gameplay unless ccp is buying them off the market, the extent that they do that if at all you could probably answer better than I.
However what makes this kind of MT worse is that its just terrible gameplay. If this is ok, why not riddle the game with "unlocks" for aurum? Right down by your modules you can have a "BUY IT NOW" button where you can unlock additional modules, add stats, buy repairs, use aurm to buy ships, BPOS, whatever. Whats the limit? Why is not plex a sufficient place to stop?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:45:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/06/2011 04:46:23
Originally by: Vasentic The fact is they implemented and are discussing FURTHER implementation of something they PROMISED to NEVER EVER do.
And this is news how ? As if they haven't been doing exactly this sort of thing for years already.
Originally by: Covert Kitty Why is not plex a sufficient place to stop?
Because PLEX created count > PLEX used up count. They need something that can turn that " > " into an " = " or even " < " at times. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 24/06/2011 04:28:35
Originally by: Ghoest Our $15 month was supposed to give equal access to a playing field. Thats what the game was about.
The moment you could sell GTCs for ISK made this whole idea of "equal access to the playing field for 15$/month" irrelevant. I didn't hear screams of "robbery" and "murder" back then, and I don't hear many of them now ABOUT THAT. As long as all items and services sold in the NEX can be (indirectly) purchased without spending extra RL cash but only ISK, it's still just as level of a playing field as it is (or isn't) now already.
I was never a fan of plex - but at least until recently it required that all gains be achieved initially by someone actions in game.
If you remember I was the one screaming bloody murder when CCP made the hidden announcement that they were selling isk for real currency by means 'stabilizing plex prices."
Anytime goods(non-cosmetic) are created by CCP and sold initially for real currency - its ruiniong the game and unfair.
BTW: Id I look pretty smart now compared to all the people saying who argued against me that CCP wouldnt really sell isk for cash.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:49:00 -
[42]
First it was fake. Now it's not being serious at all just because it has some stylish tongue-in-cheek elements like the cover apart from being mostly grade A business monkey talk. Hope springs eternal, huh? -- Zinfandelgate - A fictionalized account of the events that led to June, 21st |
Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Victoria Stecker A good chunk of the community is ****ed off.
Thing is, a good chunk of this so called community is always ****ed off and has been for as long as I can remember (six years).
And the community I'm referring to here is not the good average player community, it's the whiny, 'I want what I want', self important *****es that inhabit this forum. I never tire of reading the pathetic attempts to try and bend CCP to your ideas of what this game should be. It's what keeps me reading this forum.
Mr Epeen
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Morganta yeah.
lets spend a bunch of time printing up pamphlets talking about all the stuff we could do that we PROMISED TO NEVER DO.
do you see the error in your logic?
It's a good thing to know the reasons why you promised to never do that, and to truly know your reasons, somebody has to play devil's advocate. If you know anything about debate, you should know this.
As to the OP: As soon as I saw it, I thought "Oh yeah, Devil's Advocate." Makes perfect sense. Haunting the forums since '03
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
Originally by: CCP Navigator We have just updated Dodixie. We care a lot for Gallente.
NAVIGATOR <3 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ghoest I was never a fan of plex - but at least until recently it required that all gains be achieved initially by someone actions in game.
I am a fan of GTCs, but not much of a fan of PLEX either. It makes handling gametime much easier, but enables the existence of the stockpiling problem
Quote: If you remember I was the one screaming bloody murder when CCP made the hidden announcement that they were selling isk for real currency by means 'stabilizing plex prices." Anytime goods(non-cosmetic) are created by CCP and sold initially for real currency - its ruiniong the game and unfair.
They're STILL not selling ISK for cash. The only way to actually sell ISK for cash would be if one of the items in the NEX was "ISK", or if they would have PLEX NPC buy orders. THEY COULD HAVE HAD PLEX NPC BUY ORDERS and we wouldn't really have been all that much wiser at all.
I, for one, don't really give a damn if Item_X was dropped when Player_Y killed NPC_officer_Z or purchased from the LP shop or it was created by an AUR purchase from the NEX. As long as I can buy it for ISK on the market, there is absolutely nothing about it that I find fundamentally wrong.
Yes, it alters the balance of various item markets. SO WHAT ? That happens every time any tiny change is made about just about anything else. Hell, if anything, having various items similar to existing in-game items can have an upper soft-cap effect on those alternate item prices. Soft caps are something I find good. And I argued against removing several mineral soft top caps a long time ago. The current fiasco of how mining profit is spread across the game regions is the result of that soft cap removal.
CCP selling alternate versions of various items for cash might as well have an overall beneficial effect. The only ones negatively affected were those earning a living from the originally available item collection. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Taedrin
Gallente Zero Percent Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 04:16:18 Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 04:14:55 I disagree with the apologists like Akita.
Internal or not it shows them weighing the pro and cons of destroying everything EVE has represented to long time players.
If you over heard the staff at a hotel weighing the pros and cons of robbing you , you wouldnt say "Its ok they were just talking in private." Instead you leave the hotel.
And the "At least they arent planning to kill me" argument doesnt merit remaining in the hotel.
You don't read very many of AKita's posts, do you? Akita is ANYTHING but a fanboy. He has several times accused CCP of incompetence and several times is cynical of CCP's activities.
If you follow Akita's posts, you will realize that he only ever posts rationally and intelligently. He sees the leaked newsletter for what it really is - an internal document which was meant to allow CCP employees to communicate freely, without Big Brother telling them what they can and can not say. Big Brother has a double meaning here: 1) CCP management and 2) EVE Online players.
Players should NOT be infuriated because someone in CCP has an opinion which differs from their own. To become infuriated over such a thing would be the same as CCP banning someone because they are gay, or because they are black. CCP employees have a right to an opinion, and a right to voice that opinion. They have a right to discuss the pros and cons of their opinions. Just so long as they don't forget that they promised us to never allow microtransactions for non-vanity items, regardless of their own desires.
----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Namura Kautsuo
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 24/06/2011 04:43:22
Originally by: Akita T I have read it a while ago, and quite honestly, there's nothing in there to really justify a "burn the witch" crusade. The only outrageous things are framed as "what if" scenarios anyway, and the whole mood of the paper is lighthearted banter, not cigar-smoking bespectacled Mr. Burns huddled near a fire made out of dollar bills, like some here act as if it was. For an internal document, it was actually pretty freaking tame and balanced.
There is nothing light-hearted or hypothetical about "Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
edit: for that matter, this also is pretty serious and non-hypothetical: "Thus, we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna environment, nor build that environment around such sales; rather, we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVE experience."
Seems perfectly reasonable to me that'd they have vanity ships for sale. Ammo is so blah anyway, who the hell cares? Worry if they release SOV for AUR or fighter carriers. Which will never happen anyway, so please QQ some more.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 05:08:37
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 04:16:18 Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 04:14:55 I disagree with the apologists like Akita.
Internal or not it shows them weighing the pro and cons of destroying everything EVE has represented to long time players.
If you over heard the staff at a hotel weighing the pros and cons of robbing you , you wouldnt say "Its ok they were just talking in private." Instead you leave the hotel.
And the "At least they arent planning to kill me" argument doesnt merit remaining in the hotel.
You don't read very many of AKita's posts, do you? Akita is ANYTHING but a fanboy. He has several times accused CCP of incompetence and several times is cynical of CCP's activities.
If you follow Akita's posts, you will realize that he only ever posts rationally and intelligently. He sees the leaked newsletter for what it really is - an internal document which was meant to allow CCP employees to communicate freely, without Big Brother telling them what they can and can not say. Big Brother has a double meaning here: 1) CCP management and 2) EVE Online players.
Players should NOT be infuriated because someone in CCP has an opinion which differs from their own. To become infuriated over such a thing would be the same as CCP banning someone because they are gay, or because they are black. CCP employees have a right to an opinion, and a right to voice that opinion. They have a right to discuss the pros and cons of their opinions. Just so long as they don't forget that they promised us to never allow microtransactions for non-vanity items, regardless of their own desires.
UMMMM where to start.....
never mind
You just go pray to Akita or whatever. Ill look at what CCP says and does.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Akita T As long as I can buy it for ISK on the market, there is absolutely nothing about it that I find fundamentally wrong.
The issue is that you're putting the value of player effort and time spent playing the game in direct competition with an inexhuastible resource with universal availability. In short, you're actively and directly discouraging people from playing the game. If you choose to buy a super-de-duper T3 rifter for AUR instead of, say, a Jaguar, that's a whole bunch of time spent mining minerals, farming datacores, scouting and maintaining mining and reaction towers, running invention, building, and hauling that's been devalued. And that's true whether you buy the ship directly from CCP or from another player who bought it from them - you're still crapping on the value of all those other players' time investments. Signature removed. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:20:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 05:20:43
Originally by: Akita T
As long as I can buy it for ISK on the market, there is absolutely nothing about it that I find fundamentally wrong......
Yes, it alters the balance of various item markets. SO WHAT ?.....
Its not fair playing field anymore. Thats what.
EVE is a competition. Price caps etc are changing the game conditions thats fine because the rules change for everyone.
Selling useful stuff directly to players for real life currency is not a fair game.
Think of EVE as a casual sports league you pay to join. If you and your buddy join and he always passes the ball you you instead of scoring himself thats lame but its fair. This like buying selling plex to players for what they earned in game.
But if you pay off the ref so he hands you the ball, thats not fair. Even if paying him off only effects 1 or 2 plays a game its still not fair.
I was paying $15 a month for a fair game.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Zindela
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:22:00 -
[51]
I was in the process of writing a similar topic, but I think the OP stated more or less what I was going to say anyway.
And Akita- your vision of 'bad' may just give me nightmares of EVE tonight. Let's hope this never comes to pass. -------------------
Originally by: CCP Fallout This is not the booze you are looking for.
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Kelsi Corynn
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kelsi Corynn on 24/06/2011 05:26:47 Possible solution to PLEX stockpiling:
PLEX automatically applies to owner's account if more than a year passes since its creation.
They would have to be traded via contracts in this case, but the interface for contracts is much better than it used to be!
Edit: Not to mention that this would also contribute to price stability since it'd be a pain to trade it in large volumes.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:25:00 -
[53]
back in 2010 they told us in no uncertain terms they would not do microtransactions. Now they are.
Now they're saying " oh we were only playing devils advocate"
Don't know if they meant it?
bollux.
you're dreaming.
it's real.
if they wanted to play around like that and flesh out differing viewpoints, you'd do that in a fashion where people could make a point, attack a point, defend a point. Not in some magazine where everyone touts a side, but noone can respond because it's already all published.
The letter is real. Their intent is real. If you don't believe it you're kidding yourself.
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Namura Kautsuo
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:25:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Namura Kautsuo on 24/06/2011 05:26:56
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 24/06/2011 05:20:43
Originally by: Akita T
As long as I can buy it for ISK on the market, there is absolutely nothing about it that I find fundamentally wrong......
Yes, it alters the balance of various item markets. SO WHAT ?.....
Its not fair playing field anymore. Thats what.
EVE is a competition. Price caps etc are changing the game conditions thats fine because the rules change for everyone.
Selling useful stuff directly to players for real life currency is not a fair game.
Think of EVE as a casual sports league you pay to join. If you and your buddy join and he always passes the ball you you instead of scoring himself thats lame but its fair. This like buying selling plex to players for what they earned in game.
But if you pay off the ref so he hands you the ball, thats not fair. Even if paying him off only effects 1 or 2 plays a game its still not fair.
I was paying $15 a month for a fair game.
Everything else aside, I think its god damned hilarious you think EVE is a fair game. Most people end up as gutter trash with little hope of joining the elites. Bots run rampant and CCP will _never_ be able to beat them forever, they can only hope to periodically smack them down every now and then. People already BUY ships and other in game items for $cash$ every freakin day.
Originally by: Ris Dnalor back in 2010 they told us in no uncertain terms they would not do microtransactions. Now they are.
Now they're saying " oh we were only playing devils advocate"
Don't know if they meant it?
bollux.
you're dreaming.
it's real.
if they wanted to play around like that and flesh out differing viewpoints, you'd do that in a fashion where people could make a point, attack a point, defend a point. Not in some magazine where everyone touts a side, but noone can respond because it's already all published.
The letter is real. Their intent is real. If you don't believe it you're kidding yourself.
Citation needed. I remember them say there would be no game breaking items, not that there never would be a MT store.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:28:00 -
[55]
When are they releasing Planetary Flight?
I foresee many rages.
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Vio Geraci
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:35:00 -
[56]
Quote: If you actually think that CCP is that foolish, you should have quit this game ages ago, not now.
Hmmmmmmmm
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Everything else aside, I think its god damned hilarious you think EVE is a fair game. Most people end up as gutter trash with little hope of joining the elites. Bots run rampant and CCP will _never_ be able to beat them forever, they can only hope to periodically smack them down every now and then. People already BUY ships and other in game items for $cash$ every freakin day.
If you think a players breaking/trying to break the rules with out getting caught is the same as the referees openly selling advantages then you Im really not interested in your opinion and I doubt many other people are either.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Namura Kautsuo
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:48:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Everything else aside, I think its god damned hilarious you think EVE is a fair game. Most people end up as gutter trash with little hope of joining the elites. Bots run rampant and CCP will _never_ be able to beat them forever, they can only hope to periodically smack them down every now and then. People already BUY ships and other in game items for $cash$ every freakin day.
If you think a players breaking/trying to break the rules with out getting caught is the same as the referees openly selling advantages then you Im really not interested in your opinion and I doubt many other people are either.
Even without MT there are already TWO ways people can buy in game stuff with cash. One of them is even completely sanctioned. Care to guess what it is?
Like I have ever cared what anybody on this forum has ever thought of me. LOL. EL OH EL CATS.
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Garreth Vlox
Minmatar Blackened Skies
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Victoria Stecker So CCP has this little letter that was supposed to remain internal and was made public and caused a mild ****storm, for entirely understandable reasons.
And CCP elected not to do anything about it when they had the opportunity, so the mild ****storm stopped being so mild. A good chunk of the community is ****ed off.
And here's why that's unnecessary: We don't know if they meant it. It's so entirely over the top that we'd probably laugh it off as satire if it weren't coming on the heels of a rather pitiful excuse for Incarna and the $60 monocle. Making everything that you have to really work for in the game available just by spending money? If you actually think that CCP is that foolish, you should have quit this game ages ago, not now.
So why was it written at all? It's a discussion strategy known as playing Devil's advocate. You have someone take the role of the opposition, and argue the unpopular side - regardless of whether they actually believe it. In all honesty, I think CCP Soundwave sucks at this - based on how absurd what he wrote is, it's a little to obvious that he doesn't actually believe it. Until he shows up and announces that he really does and that is in fact the direction he wants to take this game, there's absolutely no reason people should assume that it's true.
I mean, have you read it? It's basically saying, "Let's run a bulldozer through the sandbox in order to line our pockets." If it weren't right on the heels of the Incarna release, we'd be laughing at it for being a brilliant troll - and ****, CCP just trolled you all harder than HYRDA and Outbreak did, and they didn't even mean to.
So really. Until we're given some solid reason to believe that they actually intend to do all that **** (And no, the fact that it's in an internal communication likely for the purpose of sparking discussion doesn't make it so), relax a bit. Remember when they actually suggested Remaps for Plex? That didn't get a fraction of this kind of backlash, and they still canned the idea. They're not blind, they're not that stupid, they're not going to do what CCP Soundwave is suggesting.
What they will do is release mediocre patches that may or may not set your computer on fire. If you want to get mad at them, get mad about what they actually did, as opposed to what you mistakenly believe they might be planning to do.
And get CCP Soundwave some lessons in playing Devil's Advocate. This was like reading A Modest Proposal - which, ironically, people took seriously back then too.
tl;dr - they probably weren't serious, until we know that they are, chill.
Thanks.
post with your dev main, i know you have damage control trained to 5 on this alt but those of us that pay your salary want to know whos trying to bull**** us
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Elienore
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Posted - 2011.06.24 06:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Garreth Vlox
post with your dev main, i know you have damage control trained to 5 on this alt but those of us that pay your salary want to know whos trying to bull**** us
I'm kind of getting tired of this one... how come anyone who isn't hostile is a CCP alt (also... why have I never been accused of being one? :l).
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