| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Void Silverspar
Nephite Rangers
Zero Hour Alliance
   |
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:54:00 -
[2821]
I don't post much on the forums, I don't have heaps of free time, and when I do have free time, I'd rather play EVE.
In early 2008, a friend showed me EVE online. I was so impressed, I replaced my decrepit PC with one that could play EVE.
The day my new PC arrived, I started my capsuleer career with this character.
I pretty much stopped playing all the other games that I was playing before. Some of which were free, some of which were funded by microtransactions (and I occasionally purchased items in these games to be competitive).
I've spent a lot of time over the last 3 years developing characters, earning ISK and making friends.
I'm married with kids. The economy sucks, and we're on a tight budget. But part of that budget includes EVE.
I'm underwhelmed by the last patch, but the only thing that brought me here to post is this:
 If you blow my ship up because you have better skills, tactics or knowledge, that's great, I learn from my loss and come back.
If you blow up my ship because you spent more RL money than me, and have an advantage that's not available to me with my RL budget. Then I'm not interested in devoting any more time to this game.
As of now, the silence from CCP is deafening. CCP has made some great decisions, and some bad decisions, and I've seen drama ensue following their decisions before. I've never gotten angry or threatened to unsubscribe during any of the drama. Overall, the game is still great. See my point above.
As of yesterday, I unsubscribed and I'll just see what happens before my account shuts down. (No, you can't have my stuff, I already know who's getting it.)
Hopefully during the next week, CCP can answer the question posted repeatedly in this thread to my satisfaction. "Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?"
Sadly, after 3 years of playing whenever I can, I haven't even felt like logging on and playing today.
|
Iackus
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:58:00 -
[2822]
Sure, if you nerdragers go back to TF2.
|
Blu3Jay
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:08:00 -
[2823]
 Originally by: OldPueblo
I am outraged about all of this stuff in this thread that everyone is talking about. I have made a protest video please take the time to view it CCP and protesting brothers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dLsyE8Fvc
|
Alexis Aaryan
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:08:00 -
[2824]
Originally by: OldPueblo
I am outraged about all of this stuff in this thread that everyone is talking about. I have made a protest video please take the time to view it CCP and protesting brothers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dLsyE8Fvc
|
Joker Deville
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:09:00 -
[2825]
Originally by: OldPueblo
I am outraged about all of this stuff in this thread that everyone is talking about. I have made a protest video please take the time to view it CCP and protesting brothers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dLsyE8Fvc
|
Jonathan Caldar
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:47:00 -
[2826]
Originally by: Angeliq
Edited by: Angeliq on 26/06/2011 21:14:12
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
But they already have our susribtion money...
It doesnt work if you want to charge both, its just not ok, one way or another and not both, pls.
|
Fernando Sanguinius
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:49:00 -
[2827]
Dear Zulu mate and Mr Hilmar
All i have to say is after checking the other MMO's out there i found out there are 1000's of EvE players joining games such as Perpetuum which even their server says "Server load issues in the last 48 hours" due to a mass move from EvE to them.
Other MMO's like Black Prophecy etc etc etc...
Now the question is do you care ?
Well it is common knowledge that EvE subscribers are canceling their accounts and looking for a different MMO to play.
Eve those who are a bit more stuborn and want to alienate themselfs in Nul sec or High Sec doing missions will eventually realize most of their friends or EvE legends have left teh game for good.
So ppl from Nul get all the Sov you can get squeeze all teh Tech from those newly conquered regions...at the end...you too will realize what a waist of time your efforts were.
Hilmar you have to live with the RMT'ers and Macros ingame now cause they will be the majority of your "faithfull" subscribers who really deserve your full attention.
Bye
|
ViperLok
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:12:00 -
[2828]
Can I get a vanity item request please ?
Id like a CCP Money,Greed And Anti-Player Support costume.
|
Sharp Wind
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:44:00 -
[2829]
Edited by: Sharp Wind on 26/06/2011 23:50:29
Eve should never become "W.O.W." in space....
Even wow did not offer stat items for coin.
I left wow once I discovered E.V.E.
You have made EVE one of, if not the best, MMORPG "ever".
I feel you are going down a dark path spiraling into oblivion.
Eve has always been a level above the rest, please refrain from
the 'Greed'.
Eve is a multiethnic commnunity of global cultures that has evolved into the mature, gritty and challenging universe.
The characters of Eve become who they are by way of thier own hard and dedicated efforts, not some skillpoints or items from an online store...
I am a business person in RL and I realize from exeperience that the customer 'is not' always right, BUT the customer knows what they want and will not buy something they don't.
Peace n Health,
Sharp Wind
null~ The greed of gain has no time or limit to its capaciousness. Its one object is to produce and consume. It has pity neither for beautiful nature nor for living human beings. It is ruthlessly ready without a moment's hesitation to crush beauty and life out of them, molding them into money. ~
--Rabindranath Tagore--
|
Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:20:00 -
[2830]
Originally by: CCP Zulu (via blog)
The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words. However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
For that I am sorry.
Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.
Thank you for your patience,
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online
CCP, Zulu, is that you?
I've been playing EVE for 2 years. Not much, I'm sure perhaps, compared to the vets, but long enough not to just quit overnight. Like many other people, I suspect, I have not been looking for an excuse to leave, but for a reason to stay. And this blog of yours may very well be it.
Personally I don't care for vanity items. Sell 52 monocles, or 5,200, I don't care. And I would probably even buy a few clothes if they were prettier, and not priced so outrageously. Yet, to get to the point, all I foremost wanted was for CCP to take its customers seriously, and to grap that P2W items, wide across the board, are a considered a big game-breaking no-no. It would appear that message has arrived. That is good enough for me, for now.
I hope you and the CSM have a fruitful meeting.
Thank you.
--
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Mechatronicus Anihilus
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:43:00 -
[2831]
Yeah baby! I'm just a pinata you can beat money out of. Come on, swing that bat a little harder. I got plenty more for you. Don't be shy!
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 01:21:00 -
[2832]
May as well copy/pasted this devblog for the new one.
We did ask for Hilmar to explain it to us before Penn was sent out to lay down infront of the bulldozer.
Too hard to explain?
hmmm
Maybe that's because you didn't try to explain it for 3 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
Sulindra
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:10:00 -
[2833]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Quote:
which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions
No.
BIG NO!
Mac deployment == BIG FAIL! How many hours beyond downtime estimates did it take you to finish deployment, and then how many more hours did it take you to resolve the Mac client issues? How about it's going on 5 days. Preferences are no longer being stored and read from the preferences directory, so all my preferences are **** beyond belief. I have wasted numerous hours just getting my preferences closer to where they were.
FAIL FAIL FAIL
|
Donna Domino
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:18:00 -
[2834]
ThreadnaughtGate, the Movie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBS0OWGUidc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGt5f70K02Q&feature=related
Starring Tom Cruise as disgruntled Eve vets and Cuba Gooding Jr. as CCP.
|
Sulindra
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:33:00 -
[2835]
Edited by: Sulindra on 27/06/2011 02:35:25
Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them?
There is in my opinion a big difference in buying a $1000 pair of jeans (not that I ever would) and spending $65 on something that DOESN'T exist.
Usually when you buy an item that many would consider overpriced. There are a few factors. As you have stated one of them is the name brand. That name brand though usually stands for something beyond the name. It stands for quality of the product. I'm not a clothing nut, so I'll talk about something I am more familiar with, computers. I am a Mac user. I spend a considerable amount more money on my computers than many other people because I feel that I get something more when I do. I get in my opinion a better quality operating system, better customer service experience, and a better looking piece of machinery. I spent a premium to get this item, when I could very easily spend 1/2 the cost on machine that has the same specifications, but in my opinion an inferior user experience.
In the NEX store you sell items. These items have to semblance of "quality". They have nothing behind them to make them stand out as being better. They are not real, they do not give me anything in game that in my opinion makes them worth buying. They are not stylish, they very boring. If you want your toon to look like it's in the military they may get something from it, but personally I don't think a majority of the players want their characters looking like they stepped out of a 20th century military boot camp. The monicle doesn't even seem to give you any bonuses. I can't even make money with them. These are intangible items, and they are poor looking intangible items. 1 plex = 3500 AUR = 400M isk. Shirt is 3600, so a shirt is more than 400M isk, yet I can buy a Hulk for 200M isk, so a SHIRT is more than the highest level Mining ship? REALLY? I can see you making people buy AUR with plex, but your pricing is way out of realistic lines. I'll save my Plexes for my ships, I'm not buying into your poorly researched money making scheme.
|
Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:32:00 -
[2836]
-2 Accounts
I'm curious, who has the hooker and ******* habit in the upper echelon that needs all this money?
CCP You have been going down hill for years. Pretty much since Dominion, when you broke the game, ignored it for 6 months, then formed the Dev team with Veritas. You have kept up the same arrogant oblivious outlook since then. **** the customers, you can always find more with your massive advertizing campaign right?
To the Devs in Iceland: I hope you are good at fishing or mining, you won't be siting in front of a computer much longer.
To the Devs in Atlanta: Thank God you live in a city with other tech jobs. Good luck finding another company that eats up incompetence like CCP does.
To the Devs in Shanghai: Good luck with Dust...lol.
To Whitewolf: **** You.
To Hilmar: How does it feel to so completely fail? All you have to do is man up and admit your avarice. Are you a man or are you just a greedy *****?
Crowd Control Productions: you were like a low class hooker that ****ed like a champ but kept giving me crabs. I'm not going to hang around so that you can give me something worse.
To your shareholders: Hahahahah **** your greed *****es.
|
LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:39:00 -
[2837]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
May as well copy/pasted this devblog for the new one.
We did ask for Hilmar to explain it to us before Penn was sent out to lay down infront of the bulldozer.
Too hard to explain?
hmmm
Maybe that's because you didn't try to explain it for 3 years.
Are you trying to dissuade with your sig? I want that rifter right now.
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:48:00 -
[2838]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:51:59
Originally by: LordElfa
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
May as well copy/pasted this devblog for the new one.
We did ask for Hilmar to explain it to us before Penn was sent out to lay down infront of the bulldozer.
Too hard to explain?
hmmm
Maybe that's because you didn't try to explain it for 3 years.
Are you trying to dissuade with your sig? I want that rifter right now.
Exactly. Market demand. CCP have said they will adjust MT based on player demand.
Bit by bit the market will demand more.
May as well start with the features they've removed and the ones we've demanded for years.
edit:
One of the best is going to be when they remove the UI colour controls and make it tinted manacles for RMT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:01:00 -
[2839]
I could honestly see that happening at this point.
|
Zahara Dren
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:16:00 -
[2840]
Eve Online = Farmville I really cant figure anything else to add. Its all been said a ****ing thousand times.
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:16:00 -
[2841]
Edited by: Rasz Lin on 27/06/2011 04:25:53
Originally by: Angeliq
Edited by: Angeliq on 26/06/2011 21:14:12
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
except BF:Heroes is a perfect example of a casual game, Farmville type. Its not even FPS. It has zero depth. You start the game, jump in and you play for 10 minutes, close the game. The only content in the game is watching YMCA people running around. + its F2P.
edit: Whats more, You can start playing in under 5 minutes from installing and enjoy simplified shooter with barbie dolls.
It takes at least 1 month in EVE to start shooting other people in the face.
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:19:00 -
[2842]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 04:19:27
Originally by: Rasz Lin
except BF:Heroes is a perfect example of a casual game
As Eve will become.
Originally by: Rasz Lin
It has zero depth.
As Eve will become.
Originally by: Rasz Lin
its F2P.
As Eve will become.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
vasuul
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:29:00 -
[2843]
heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold
http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/
http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions
http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions
http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html
http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html
http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382
http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees
http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505
http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&
http://massively.joystiq.com/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121
AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask
WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
answer us please
|
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:22:00 -
[2844]
Originally by: Jonathan Caldar
Originally by: Angeliq
Edited by: Angeliq on 26/06/2011 21:14:12
Originally by: Julian Kirov
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
But they already have our susribtion money...
It doesnt work if you want to charge both, its just not ok, one way or another and not both, pls.
It was an interesting topic...
my take away?
I might as well go work in the real world and chase real world status symbols if it comes to the point that real world money buys the fake world status symbols.
Or I might spend my time mountain biking or playing tenis.. or online shogi etc...
|
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:35:00 -
[2845]
Its no longer a virtual world if you spend real $ to get ahead.... the line between the worlds gets just too shattered
Some people don't look at it that way and will pay more than a flat entrance ticket for their share of the bills.
Shatters the illusion for me though. Might as well posture somewhere non virtual if thats thw way its going to be.
|
Thor Kavees
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:13:00 -
[2846]
Dear CCP,
your not the only MMO in town. Now seem like the right time to bail out now after investing close to 2 years in my character. Rather quit now than stay and see the direction you want to take the game. So I will sent you a clear message: I AM CANCELING MY SUBSCRIPTION TODAY!
Ex Longtime-Subscriber
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:42:00 -
[2847]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 07:42:49
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
I might as well go work in the real world and chase real world status symbols if it comes to the point that real world money buys the fake world status symbols.
Depends who you are.
If you're 12 then those status symbols are an indication of how much money you're able to scam outta mummy and daddy.
They mean something to noobs who play DUST.
Cross-promo ftw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
|
tony dinozo
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:17:00 -
[2848]
Edited by: tony dinozo on 27/06/2011 08:17:57
How much for MonocleAnyWhere ?
Found this in forum : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=738999
look like a never ending story ...
|
Angeliq
Minmatar
Silent Overwatch
S I L E N T.
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:59:00 -
[2849]
Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!
This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!!
It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.
- For those of you that think this business model can never apply to EVE
1. A business model does not mean that all the details must be exactly the same from one business to another. That's why it's called a model, a template. You need to come up with specific, personalized approaches for your own business. A business model is based on marketing, mass psychology, customer thinking patterns, habits, social behavior, statistics, etc.
2. EVE is P2P! This is not a valid argument. The numbers show that a lot of ppl already bought monocles and clothing and are willing to pay for customization and power items in NEX shop. We are in target. CCP might even try a hybrid dual-pay scheme.
3. It is possible EVE Online will go F2P. Especially if SOE will takes over. Those of you that believe CCP Fallout, it's your choice, I don't give a fck... BUUUT DUST514 for PS3 only! Hello!?! SOE has invested a lot of time (and money) in this project.
Here is John Smedley, President of SOE answering a question (full interwiew HERE)
Q: So you don't think that sandboxes (and sandbox systems) are dead for SOE? Will you ever make a new sandbox with SWG's pioneering features?
The answer is... stay tuned on the subject of sandboxes. We're super excited about the future of sandbox gaming. Let me just leave it at that!
4. The average age is different. Not entirely true. The average age of a BF:Heroes player is only 3-4 years younger. In the last years EVE Online became more and more dumb proof, more accessible to the younger player. This culminates with Incarna and the new player tutorial being a very appealing experience for a new (young) player.
5. The EVE Online player is not a peacck. Ofc not all players are peaccks but a very significant % are. If "you" are not a peacck, then why did "you" spent so much time on the customization of your character and why CCP had to give ppl the chance to "remodel" their characters a few times after the initial release of the new characters? Cos ppl were unhappy with their "creations", cos they care about looks, that bug was ment to be . Why do you think they gave us the "possibility" to recreate our characters as much and as many times as we want to now?
Most important, the majority of EVE players are competitive, otherwise they would've chosen a different MMORPG.
6. There were no surveys. Wrong. There is the annual CCP survey, tho if I remember right, there were no questions regarding NEX Store, the questions in that survey were meant to gather info on customer behavior, addiction, alternative games we might migrate to... all kinds of "useful" information.
"Dear xxxxxx,
You are invited to participate in a survey being conducted by CCP...."
The other "surveys" were conducted in-game by crunching numbers, statistics. For example: how much time the player spent designing and redesigning the new character model. I'm sure there are many aspects, numbers and indicators to be interpreted.
7. EVE has depth. Yes, it does but we made it like this. It can make money without all that obscure 0.0 politics, without all those well thought war plans, without any plans at all. Just a bunch of players running around popping stuff. Might be fun.
8. NEX current Prices -> Price anchoring
|
Lexus L'Amour
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:28:00 -
[2850]
Zomg the world is coming to an end, a corporation is trying to make money. No no this cannot happen what is CCP thinking corporations shouldn't make money.
That is exactly what everyone sounds like, personally I find CCP's response acceptable. I hope they stick to whatever plans that they have. People need to realize that CCP has done a great job of creating and maintaining this game for the past 8 years, and will continue to do just that i am quite sure.
I personally applaud CCP for not caving to thier player bases rediculous demands, I have seen too many games destroyed by companies caving in to the players. Thank god CCP isn't stupid enough to make that game breaking mistake.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |