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Giggity Girly
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Posted - 2011.06.30 03:32:00 -
[91]
I tell ya what. The comedy is high in this subforum t'nite! Whoo-ee |
Angsty Teenager
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Posted - 2011.06.30 06:06:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Angsty Teenager on 30/06/2011 06:06:45 I have read the whole thread, and there are 3 things I have garnered from it.
A. Block Utx is a complete and utter idiot. Plain and simple. B. I like Liberty Eternal. C. Seems like u all mad.
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Saidin Thor
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Posted - 2011.07.03 22:28:00 -
[93]
The amount of vitriol in this thread is at near-ridiculous levels, even for MD.
That said, confirming receipt of interest for 1 month + principal.
Maybe this is just me, but when I invest in a bond I do not read the time as an ironclad promise. I invest with the full knowledge that this is a game and sometimes things can change. If anyone feels differently, I would suggest that you take a step back, take a deep breath or two, and then really look at how seriously you're taking internet spaceships.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.04 06:27:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Why are you distorting the facts to defend this thief? Is it because of conflict of interest? You really should stay out of this since you were the one who performed the audit.
Re-read with me:
Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis. Past performance audit <> business viability analysis.
As for conflict of interest:
1) I could not care the less about having interest, ATM I am kind of playing another MMO. I don't give a **** about even caring to brown nose anyone in EvE. Never cared.
2) While LE outed, you are the one who so far is only second to EBANK at how opaque are your deals. It's not just for some billions either, but for several hundreds. You even manage to slip in an EBANK director (and get him shares) in the organization when both were active, THAT is conflict of interest.
3) I am not distorting anything, he paid the 15% a month for each month the bond has been active. Sadly, it aborted early.
Am I happy he did what he did? NOT AT ALL. Am I happy about how he responded to the others? NOT AT ALL. It also shown he was sort of roleplaying "hard guts capitalist" instead of being one, so his next investments will be funny to see.
Am I extremely convinced you are trying to p1ss all over him because he repeatedly called you about your practices? YES. Am I extremely convinced you are trying to p1ss all over me, because till I live I will call your dire lack of transparency and inability to stop talking before you look worse than a CCP PR? ABSOLUTELY.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.07.04 10:27:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Cista2 on 04/07/2011 10:31:15
Nvmind ----------------------- "Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.07.04 13:20:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Re-read with me:
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable. He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
Seems you have no problem ignoring these facts.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.04 16:03:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 04/07/2011 16:06:07
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Re-read with me:
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable. He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
Seems you have no problem ignoring these facts.
Seems you have no problem tossing **** at me about:
Originally by: Block Ukx
Why are you distorting the facts to defend this thief? Is it because of conflict of interest? You really should stay out of this since you were the one who performed the audit.
I know this might be news to you, but just because someone asked me to calculate his old bond performance, does not somehow make me involved in his next bond future performance and even in his future ill decision to buy a character.
Also, I have dedicated multiple posts on multiple threads talking about how bad his decision has been - after all he affected MY money not yours. After multiple posts stating he did wrong, keeping harping on him means you just hold some pathetic vendetta against the individual.
I could even accept you feel good kicking him while he's down - we live in decadent times of regression after all - but NOT that you and a bunch of other people lay MORE WASTE ON SOMEONE WHO REIMBURSED PRINCIPAL AND PARTIAL INTEREST THAN ON SOME OTHERS WHO TOTALLY SCAMMED.
This does not make LE look worse, it makes YOU look worse. You can't see the difference between a full scammer and a badly managed bond and completely lack of the ability to form a cold minded balanced judgement.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Arancar Australis
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Posted - 2011.07.04 16:36:00 -
[98]
And to think, this is nothing more than just a game, whose only bearing on life is the time spent within it for supposed fun.
I can almost imagine the howls of outrage if this was real money
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Rakshasr
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:40:00 -
[99]
/me bows to the OP.
This is a good professional troll. Not that "I have monocle and you don't" or Millia and fgft Algo-something ship toasting immature stuff that's funny for one day or even less.
This is good and professional troll and i am amazed, no really, I am serious. I respect a good trolling because it's a form of art.
You locked your targets tried them out, let your armor get a bit low so they thing they can get you... Than armor rep's at full strength, overloaded, neuts on and blast with the overloaded main guns...
F*** YEAH o/
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.07.04 20:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Seems you have no problem tossing **** at me about:
This is not about you. It's about him breaking the terms of the agreement. I still don't understand why you keep defending him when you know very well he broke the terms. I think the fact that you audit him has blind your objectivity.
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable. He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
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Tetsuo Van'Buren
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Posted - 2011.07.04 22:47:00 -
[101]
Interesting
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.04 22:53:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Seems you have no problem tossing **** at me about:
This is not about you. It's about him breaking the terms of the agreement. I still don't understand why you keep defending him when you know very well he broke the terms. I think the fact that you audit him has blind your objectivity.
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable. He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
Block, everybody knows you lost a fortune running BSAC mineral reserve into the ground.
Yeah, you bought big when the prices hit a low. But the prices have been falling for 3 years - each time they hit a new low, you bought up more with public isk, and took an even bigger loss
So you borrowed more and more, thinking you could make good your losses - only it didn't work out so good for you, did it?
Now you're sore - you know you should have walked away and you wish you did. It's ok Block - you b_allsed-up your company. But everybody has accepted it now.
Just come clean Block - give up playing a lie. You're only lashing out at me because you're sore at yourself, aren't you?
Block, in the name of decency, stop digging - leave the new insurance/bank scam you're setting up with Hexx and Sencnes - you'll feel better if you just let it all go
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:46:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Seems you have no problem tossing **** at me about:
This is not about you. It's about him breaking the terms of the agreement. I still don't understand why you keep defending him when you know very well he broke the terms. I think the fact that you audit him has blind your objectivity.
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable. He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
Let me re-re-re-repeat it again.
There's no defense. I criticized him multiple times per thread, in 3 different threads. Is this your concept of "defense"?
On the other side, he could have taken the short way like most others and walked off with everything. He did not, he repaid back principal and 1 month worth of interest.
Is this the best? Not at all! *I* lost on this deal (while you just talk talk talk), so I know things did not went good. Yet I am fair enough to say that there has to be a difference when one does not run off but gives everything back + full interest for the shortened duration. There has to be a third way. Success, scam and failure.
In case they can't achieve success, investees should be encouraged to declare failure and perfom an exit strategy NOT to be flamed so much that they think: "next time I'll just scam, they can't see the difference".
As for the audit, it had exactly zero impact at determining his present or future performance (it's a log of the past with no other check) and it has zero impact about what I say. Had it been Atima or Dethmourne or someone else it'd make no difference, because a guy exercising an exit strategy is NOT a scammer. Put that difference in the skull.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Faith Clothos
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:53:00 -
[104]
ITT: U MAD!
Everywhere.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.07.05 02:32:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Let me re-re-re-repeat it again.
This is not about you. This is about LE not living up to the standards he claimed to represent. I express my view point and you have express yours. I'll leave it there as this is going nowhere.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.05 02:55:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Let me re-re-re-repeat it again.
This is not about you. This is about LE not living up to the standards he claimed to represent. I express my view point and you have express yours. I'll leave it there as this is going nowhere.
You've completely ignored the compensation offer that is on the table and trolled the same false point as usual [like in the audit threads where you troll endlessly including with the use of alts].
So now you're running off just because I brought up the insurance/Ebank MK II scam you're building up that you've got your heart set upon?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:21:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal You've completely ignored the compensation offer that is on the table and trolled the same false point as usual [like in the audit threads where you troll endlessly including with the use of alts].
You broke the terms of the bond agreement, by purchasing a character and by not honoring your financial obligation. You hide the character purchase, until it was pointed out by others. You deceived your bondholders by making them believe you could not honor your financial obligations, when you have the assets to cover it. You are a liar and a deceiver. I have no interest in discussing your lies. I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:30:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Liberty Eternal You've completely ignored the compensation offer that is on the table and trolled the same false point as usual [like in the audit threads where you troll endlessly including with the use of alts].
You broke the terms of the bond agreement, by purchasing a character and by not honoring your financial obligation. You hide the character purchase, until it was pointed out by others. You deceived your bondholders by making them believe you could not honor your financial obligations, when you have the assets to cover it. You are a liar and a deceiver. I have no interest in discussing your lies. I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
lol - thought you were running away? I'm so glad you can stay to talk about your emotional anger issues. Does your inner child feel betrayed and wounded because of all the lies you told to get investment into BSCAM?
Oh, how you told yourself that it would work. And how humiliating that you have failed so bad that you daren't even have an auditor go over the books.
But it's ok - all you have to do is come clean - you know all pyramid schemes collapse eventually. Yours won't be any different - and why carry on with the lies? Why Block, why?! Stop doing it to yourself and regain your karmic harmony!
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Faith Clothos
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:30:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Liberty Eternal You've completely ignored the compensation offer that is on the table and trolled the same false point as usual [like in the audit threads where you troll endlessly including with the use of alts].
You broke the terms of the bond agreement, by purchasing a character and by not honoring your financial obligation. You hide the character purchase, until it was pointed out by others. You deceived your bondholders by making them believe you could not honor your financial obligations, when you have the assets to cover it. You are a liar and a deceiver. I have no interest in discussing your lies. I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
Random question time, if someone states in no uncertain terms that the will subject himself to a third party audit to validate whether he still has assets he claims to have, and then postpones it endlessly, or indefinitely, is that not lying and deceiving?
What was it about glass houses and throwing stones again?
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:35:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Block Ukx I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
As long as his customers are satisfied, any further argument is irrelevant.
From where im Sitting, its clear to see Block is angry at Liberty for w/e reason & is using this thread to muddy the waters. And liberty re-directing 'the hate 'at Blocks operation/s.
Im sure i speak for MD when i say you both need to grow up.
___ iCandy Bonds
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Faith Clothos
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:37:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Block Ukx I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
As long as his customers are satisfied, any further argument is irrelevant.
From where im Sitting, its clear to see Block is angry at Liberty for w/e reason & is using this thread to muddy the waters. And liberty re-directing 'the hate 'at Blocks operation/s.
Im sure i speak for MD when i say you both need to grow up.
I think you are in the wrong game, big sisters online is the next one over.
:Popcorn:
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Tom Bithoff
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Posted - 2011.07.05 05:44:00 -
[112]
This thread shows that MD doesn't need more finance people, it needs more lawyers.
Bonds are a kind of contract. At first glance, contracts are about promises, but really, they're about defining the remedies when promises are broken. A well written contract allows the parties to better understand their risks, and plan their finances.
Was there an original thread for this bond offering that specifically addressed the consequences of Liberty Eternal's decision to end the bond early? If not, both Liberty Eternal and his investors all failed to anticipate and define these circumstances. The appropriate remedy is to amend the contract, along terms agreeable to all the parties. What to do if the parties can't agree is a difficult hypothetical to address, given the absence of meaningful contract enforcement in EveOnline, but luckily that's just a hypothetical question, given the agreement Liberty Eternal has reached with his investors.
Isn't this what's happened here?
Block, unless you're one of the investors, you lack standing to complain. While that's not quite legalese for STFU, you've repeatedly complained about obligations not being met, while the investors themselves (the beneficiaries of those obligations) haven't complained. If they've agreed to terms amending the original bond obligation, then there is no breach. There is a modification.
Next time you MD geniuses offer a bond, throw some ISK at a lawyer to look it over, and suggest contingencies you might want to specifically address. I'm not available; but you could probably find a law student willing to look over your bonds for something around 2B isk/hour.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:08:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Tom Bithoff Was there an original thread for this bond offering that specifically addressed the consequences of Liberty Eternal's decision to end the bond early? If not, both Liberty Eternal and his investors all failed to anticipate and define these circumstances. The appropriate remedy is to amend the contract, along terms agreeable to all the parties. What to do if the parties can't agree is a difficult hypothetical to address, given the absence of meaningful contract enforcement in EveOnline, but luckily that's just a hypothetical question, given the agreement Liberty Eternal has reached with his investors.
Isn't this what's happened here?
Block, unless you're one of the investors, you lack standing to complain. While that's not quite legalese for STFU, you've repeatedly complained about obligations not being met, while the investors themselves (the beneficiaries of those obligations) haven't complained. If they've agreed to terms amending the original bond obligation, then there is no breach. There is a modification.
Next time you MD geniuses offer a bond, throw some ISK at a lawyer to look it over, and suggest contingencies you might want to specifically address. I'm not available; but you could probably find a law student willing to look over your bonds for something around 2B isk/hour.
There is an MD answer to this. Funnily enough, despite what Block Ukx believes, auditors are useful before these things happen.
When an investee asks me if his prospectus is OK, they send it to me before it's posted and I check it out for major deficiencies, like a lack of exit strategy and make them add it. The act of creating decent and complete prospectuses is sadly getting an art of the past. They got the bad example off other investees who on their e-eliteness would create bonds like: "Hay guyz giev me 50B nao kthkx" and getting them filled in 1 hour.
I think in the future I will start demanding an exit strategy to be added before sending my ISK. That's all what I can do in order to coherce investees into some sort of responsible behavior.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:49:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Block Ukx I think people in the MD are smart enough to figure out your silly strategy.
As long as his customers are satisfied, any further argument is irrelevant.
From where im Sitting, its clear to see Block is angry at Liberty for w/e reason & is using this thread to muddy the waters. And liberty re-directing 'the hate 'at Blocks operation/s.
Im sure i speak for MD when i say you both need to grow up.
But I was playing wind-up. Is time for stop nao?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.05 09:00:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
But I was playing wind-up. Is time for stop nao?
You should stop trolling Block (it's too easy) and start apologizing. Because the investors don't care about the fact you could not honor the bond (it's understandable) but they care that:
- You did not provide a better prospectus with clear clauses about what you'd do in case of exit strategy.
- Most of all, you preached a certain philosophy thing and then discarded it when its own statements started biting you back. Now how can someone think you won't eat back your own ideals again?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.05 10:59:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
But I was playing wind-up. Is time for stop nao?
You should stop trolling Block (it's too easy) and start apologizing. Because the investors don't care about the fact you could not honor the bond (it's understandable) but they care that:
- You did not provide a better prospectus with clear clauses about what you'd do in case of exit strategy.
- Most of all, you preached a certain philosophy thing and then discarded it when its own statements started biting you back. Now how can someone think you won't eat back your own ideals again?
lol! I must have thought I was playing a game or something?
You're right - I should have carried on for another 2 months because my real life is not as important as running a bond in internet spaceships
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.05 12:06:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
But I was playing wind-up. Is time for stop nao?
You should stop trolling Block (it's too easy) and start apologizing. Because the investors don't care about the fact you could not honor the bond (it's understandable) but they care that:
- You did not provide a better prospectus with clear clauses about what you'd do in case of exit strategy.
- Most of all, you preached a certain philosophy thing and then discarded it when its own statements started biting you back. Now how can someone think you won't eat back your own ideals again?
lol! I must have thought I was playing a game or something?
You're right - I should have carried on for another 2 months because my real life is not as important as running a bond in internet spaceships
Earning trust is not a game.
It's the hardest thing to achieve, yet the easiest to lose.
Also, I don't care about the 150M of interest, I am spending double than that in a shirt. I care for your handling of the whole situation.
You could have got out with some educated, humble statement and have investors flock at your feet at the next investment.
But no, you have to show off flamboyant and high.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.07.05 12:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Earning trust is not a game.
It's the hardest thing to achieve, yet the easiest to lose.
Also, I don't care about the 150M of interest, I am spending double than that in a shirt. I care for your handling of the whole situation.
You could have got out with some educated, humble statement and have investors flock at your feet at the next investment.
But no, you have to show off flamboyant and high.
The bond had to end - it was just one of those things and there was nothing I could do about it.
Next time I kill a bond I will spare a thought for the bondetarians - we'll compose a eulogy and sing songs around the campfire until dawn, talking of the old times before the bond died, when man was at peace and knew nothing of hatred and war.
It's dead, Jim.
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Nin Kimrov
Minmatar Kenzi Arms and Munitions
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Posted - 2011.07.05 12:26:00 -
[119]
You know whats funny, you would had less whining if you had scammed the 35b.
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2011.07.05 23:18:00 -
[120]
I forgot to confirm that principal and interest was paid out in full, thank you LE for profit and have fun in EVE :)
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