Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:01:00 -
[1]
So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
_______________________________________
|
Atlentia
Gallente Dominus Imperium
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:05:00 -
[2]
Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed. + Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! + |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:05:00 -
[3]
I am speechless, good luck with the meeting.
I am on pins and needles.
-- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions. _______________________________________
|
Obviously Confidential
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:06:00 -
[5]
Bump for great wisdom and trust.
The CSM will handle this with CCP, I have confidence in both.
It's the right thing to do and it's the right way for this kind of situation to be sorted out, let's set an example for future problems like these (hope we never have them again) as well as for the gaming world.
|
Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:07:00 -
[6]
GL. I agree wholeheartedly.
|
Sable Blitzmann
Minmatar Massively Dynamic
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:09:00 -
[7]
Well said Tree.
|
Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Strrog on 28/06/2011 02:12:35 Edited by: Strrog on 28/06/2011 02:11:08 Dear White Tree,
We place hope on the CSMs wisdom to fix the problems associated with this expac and some CCP money issues.
You White Tree brought some hope to this ermmm dark world of EVE :).
./expects cool stuff enthusiastically
PS. And if things fail for everything else there is NOIR
|
diaufop
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: diaufop on 28/06/2011 02:13:02
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
+1
I'm sure the CSM will do their best, but CCP have quite clearly set their course and will stay on it. Mass unsubscriptions and Jita blockades pushed their collective buttons, but all you're likely to see is -at best - a bunch of weasel-worded statements they can abide by until they're ready to take the next run at milking this cash cow for all it's worth.
|
Doc Fury
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:12:00 -
[10]
I am certainly ready to examine their actions and not what they say.
/Seriously, how much of that did CCP write for you? //just asking
We're not upset that you lied to us CCP, we're upset that from now on we can't believe you.
/I am not a Golden Goose /I am not a Cash Cow
|
|
Mr Epeen
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:12:00 -
[11]
I will follow this with great interest.
|
AnzacPaul
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:13:00 -
[12]
Sorry White Tree but whilst I get your sentiment, you can't convince me for a second that a company is going to go against the advice of marketers, economists, "professionals in the field"; to listen to a bunch of quote "computer nerds".
Do you meet with the shareholders at all? I seen a list a couple of days ago that says Hilmar owns 2% of shares in CCP. Regardless of how much he loves Eve, he doesn't have a choice when the majority say "Eve needs to make more money".
I appreciate your attempt to calm the people though.
NO TO MICROTRANSACTIONS IN EVE. |
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Doc Fury I am certainly ready to examine their actions and not what they say.
/Seriously, how much of that did CCP write for you? //just asking
None of it. I just figured I'd post how I feel, personally.
_______________________________________
|
Reilly Duvolle
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:13:00 -
[14]
In the end, we that have unsubscribed havent done so because we hate CCP. We have done so because we love EVE, and we HATE the idea of it beeing destroyed by shortsighted financial concerns. Still, CCP needs to have a financial situation that enables them to go forth. Your job is to contribute to a reconciliation of those two concerns. CCP absolutely needs to make money for the company to be sustainable, and the players want EVE back. Better than ever. With a community as strong as ours, I am sure there are ways.
|
Kappas Katamara
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:14:00 -
[15]
Supported!
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:14:00 -
[16]
Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. CCP doesn't need a CSM meeting to say "we will never allow cash purchases of items with any in-game effect". You have a job to do in convincing them to fix the item shop in general, but there is absolutely no reason that we should have to wait for a simple answer to our most important concern.
The longer CCP stays silent, the more it convinces us that this CSM meeting is nothing more than propaganda that will have no impact on the eventual decision to allow the purchase of in-game advantages. -----------
|
Kaltor e'Daw
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:15:00 -
[17]
I applaud the optimism, but the only thing that will ever appease the vast majority of those who have indeed banded together is a complete reversal of the proposed RMT.
I don't believe anything else will be effective.
And, as we all suspect, that won't happen, a 100% honest, frank and direct admission of their failure, their plans and EVE's future. The vast majority of players are not stupid. They can indeed read between the devblog lines.
It's time for the truth, whether CCP likes it or not.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The longer CCP stays silent, the more it convinces us that this CSM meeting is nothing more than propaganda that will have no impact on the eventual decision to allow the purchase of in-game advantages.
If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive. _______________________________________
|
Frederick Yassavi
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:16:00 -
[19]
Thanks, White Tree, and the rest of the CSM. You've been a clear and articulate voice through all of this, and I greatly appreciate it.
For those making "CCP wrote this post" comments: you obviously haven't been paying attention. Nobody would mistake the way the CSM has been talking for blind subservience. They have been pointed and critical of CCP throughout.
|
Karthwritte
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
YES, flames and rage are bad right now at this point. The point is making EVE better, not destroy it because we crashed with the dev, which are not evil people.
And if you still feel something burn inside you, giving you a sensation of illness, making your throat feel bad and your mouth taste like death, drink Pepto-Bismol. Will help.
|
|
Garekell
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Doc Fury I am certainly ready to examine their actions and not what they say.
/Seriously, how much of that did CCP write for you? //just asking
This - and I voted for you. More delay. More time wasted. More hired fanbois. After they lied to you which mittens admits you fly out there yet again to be used.
Sorry - why should we see it any other way. Its happened again and again and again.
|
Fungus Amongus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:17:00 -
[22]
I fully support this message.
|
Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:18:00 -
[23]
SO SAY WE ALL!
|
quevie
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:19:00 -
[24]
Well said WT. I hope some coherent feedback can be provided.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
Oh god I love the Admiral. ~swoon~ _______________________________________
|
Kiwi Miner
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:19:00 -
[26]
Just a question? if ccp respected the csm so much why did csm not know about this before it happened? why did ccp not answer the questions asked to the csm? How can we be sure ccp has not asked the csm to Iceland only to bribe them with more free trips and the like to get them on side? How as players after reading what the ceo thinks of us can we trust anything they say. what they say to day turns into a misunderstanding tomorrow. ccp zulu said he was writing a blog over a day ago no blog how do we trust anything said to us ??
I wonder if Hilmar Petursson remembers his quote ôThe evolution of EVE Online continues in large part because of the feedback we receive from subscribers |
Akrosi
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:20:00 -
[27]
Thanks for all your doing White Tree. Please don't let them persuade you into trying to convince the community about micro-transactions, stay strong! And remember, you're their customer,you hold the power. Their jobs, houses and lifestyle are thanks to US.
|
Debrue
Gallente Sacred Templars
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:20:00 -
[28]
Thank you White Tree. It has been an extremely historic moment in gaming history and I suspect we all need to step back for a moment and digest what is happening. I am willing to give them a chance to reevaluate the game's direction and CCP's modes of communication. Debrue |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:20:00 -
[29]
1 Its imperative that they promise no competitive advantages being sold in the NEX market.
There is no leeway on this. The element of the game is you pay $15 a month and get access to the whole sandbox.
2 It would be nice if they came up with a customer friendly pricing structure on vanity items.
The current prices are exploitative as opposed to being a service. They dont ruin the game, they just make us resent CCP.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:21:00 -
[30]
I suspect that deep down, most of us do not want to see CCP as the enemy. Right now many do, myself included, though this entire mess can still be corrected. We're all waiting to see what comes out of the summit. That's how it stands.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
|
|
Alara IonStorm
Caldari Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:21:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
Did you get lost on your way to the Battlestar Galactica Online Forums?
-- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
|
Doc Fury
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:22:00 -
[32]
The CSM in its many iterations has been almost completely ineffectual.
I am fully prepared to be surprised however, but I also expect to be underwhelmed.
We're not upset that you lied to us CCP, we're upset that from now on we can't believe you.
/I am not a Golden Goose /I am not a Cash Cow
|
Indy Rider
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kiwi Miner Just a question? if ccp respected the csm so much why did csm not know about this before it happened? why did ccp not answer the questions asked to the csm? How can we be sure ccp has not asked the csm to Iceland only to bribe them with more free trips and the like to get them on side? How as players after reading what the ceo thinks of us can we trust anything they say. what they say to day turns into a misunderstanding tomorrow. ccp zulu said he was writing a blog over a day ago no blog how do we trust anything said to us ??
What this guy said.
I doubt anything will change earlier than October, they might lower the price of vanity items, add a little more, fix a couple of bugs in the patch tomorrow. They need more money because of their own ineptitude, and we're the chicken they want to choke to cover their arses.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kiwi Miner Just a question? if ccp respected the csm so much why did csm not know about this before it happened? why did ccp not answer the questions asked to the csm?
We're going to find out. We've been yelling at them like crazy over this.
Originally by: Kiwi Miner How can we be sure ccp has not asked the csm to Iceland only to bribe them with more free trips and the like to get them on side?
I actually didn't want to go because I'm broke as hell IRL and trust me when I say the meeting sessions are intense. My Alliance and the community has pleaded with us to attend if we can.
Originally by: Kiwi Miner How as players after reading what the ceo thinks of us can we trust anything they say. what they say to day turns into a misunderstanding tomorrow. ccp zulu said he was writing a blog over a day ago no blog how do we trust anything said to us ??
The trust has seriously been shaken I can't tell you it hasn't and I'm not going to do damage control for CCP. Its up to us now to help them rebuild it with us. And by us I mean EVE players, not just the CSM. _______________________________________
|
Yana Steel
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:23:00 -
[35]
CCP could end this drama in seconds if they wanted to. There's a bloody list of questions that need their answers on the forums, made by players.
I am absolutely certain that CCP's only desire for a meeting with the CSM is to bide time and have a players face on their damage control team.
I'd actually love to be proven wrong, really.
|
Kiwi Miner
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:23:00 -
[36]
Remember we the players did not turn on ccp, CCP turned on the players and now that player power is on the move ccp are sorry?
I wonder if Hilmar Petursson remembers his quote ôThe evolution of EVE Online continues in large part because of the feedback we receive from subscribers |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:24:00 -
[37]
haha where'd you learn to hurf blurf like that white tree Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Jerry Pepridge
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:25:00 -
[38]
see if you can get them to throw in a gift.
Ill take a shirt that says
'butthurt forum warriors only make up 2% of the game population' on the front 'Can i have your stuff' on the back. _________________________________________________
Misty McGinnity Doesn't have an iPhone. |
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zastrow haha where'd you learn to hurf blurf like that white tree
You're going to die tonight, Ray Romano.
Originally by: Yana Steel
I'd actually love to be proven wrong, really.
We'll endeavor to try, I mean, that's all we can do, right? _______________________________________
|
Canuk EroSennin
Gallente Public Security Section Nine
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
Oh god I love the Admiral. ~swoon~
You are our CSMs....we voted you in and I hope you do not get swayed to back down from representing the people of EVE.....so stick to your guns, put forth the hard questions and let CCP know that we are not amused and try to find a ground where EVE can once again move forward for EVE and player alike. I have faith in you all. Btw....are they paying to bring you iceland?
|
|
Blacksquirrel
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:26:00 -
[41]
DAMN IT THIS IS REASONABLE AND PRAGMATIC!!!! WE SHALL HAVE NONE OF THIS! HOW DARE A DIALOGUE BE HAD OVER ACTIONS TAKEN AND NOT TAKEN AS OF NOW!!
Seriously don't suffer future pains if they haven't come to fruition yet or might never come about.
|
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:26:00 -
[42]
Even though I still didn't vote for you, if you get the big yellow question answered I'll start a third account. I don't know what I'll do with the account, probably a cyno alt account for when I eventually finish trainning for caps.
And if I get to paint my phobos hot pink, I'll love you long time. Yes, I want MT, just not game stat changing MT. I want to color my phobos hot pink. I'll even pay say 2-3 dollars per phobos to make them hot pink. I'll even shield tank a few of them so I have to spend more.
GL, and Godspeed.
|
Thaylon Sen
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:26:00 -
[43]
I've played EVE since beta, at the moment I feel insulted by CCP. They have untill the 10th to change my opinion of them, or I simply wont be resubbing.
|
Jennifer Nardieu
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:27:00 -
[44]
The extraordinary meeting is the final answer that all of us were seeking.
The reason its a meeting is not because of working out how to say "yes or no" to a "will there be P2W features" but rather a "How can we ease the transition across to a P2W business model while minimising the backlash from the community" meeting.
My judgement is already made to that end, I will continue to play EVE until I feel that it is no longer possible to participate further without investing additional money on top of my subscription in order to remain competitive.
|
Kiwi Miner
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kiwi Miner Just a question? if ccp respected the csm so much why did csm not know about this before it happened? why did ccp not answer the questions asked to the csm?
We're going to find out. We've been yelling at them like crazy over this.
If you have been yelling and they have not been listening why will they now? why did you have to yell ?
Originally by: Kiwi Miner How can we be sure ccp has not asked the csm to Iceland only to bribe them with more free trips and the like to get them on side?
I actually didn't want to go because I'm broke as hell IRL and trust me when I say the meeting sessions are intense. My Alliance and the community has pleaded with us to attend if we can.
I as many other do thank you for what you are doing , It is only I for one think it is too late
Originally by: Kiwi Miner How as players after reading what the ceo thinks of us can we trust anything they say. what they say to day turns into a misunderstanding tomorrow. ccp zulu said he was writing a blog over a day ago no blog how do we trust anything said to us ??
The trust has seriously been shaken I can't tell you it hasn't and I'm not going to do damage control for CCP. Its up to us now to help them rebuild it with us. And by us I mean EVE players, not just the CSM.
how will trust be rebuilt when they are still lieing to us about making blogs but not doing it?
I wonder if Hilmar Petursson remembers his quote ôThe evolution of EVE Online continues in large part because of the feedback we receive from subscribers |
Canuk EroSennin
Gallente Public Security Section Nine
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Thaylon Sen I've played EVE since beta, at the moment I feel insulted by CCP. They have untill the 10th to change my opinion of them, or I simply wont be resubbing.
Then can I haz....oh nm....never freakin works anyways ^^
|
Sri Nova
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:29:00 -
[47]
Is there a thread posted or a place that is gathering all the ideas and thoughts that have been brought to light ? I know we have the threadocalypse . I was hoping for maybe a sticky that has a list of links and posts to highlight all the good ideas and thoughts that have been posted regarding this event . That way people will know what is being brought to CCP's attention. music the paint dance floor the canvas your body the brush |
JoeBear770
Amarr Faster Muffins
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:29:00 -
[48]
Well said by the OP, I am also hoping a solution can be brokered. It would be good to know if CCP took this course because of greed or if they are actually in some kind of financial difficulty as speculated by some. Hopefully they will be forthcoming with you folks and not just try and gloss over the real issues.
|
Templar Dane
Amarr Amarrian Retribution
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:29:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Templar Dane on 28/06/2011 02:30:02 I would like to point out that shutting down jita and amarr isn't all that big a loss and...
We haven't burned down one single thing, or so much as given anyone a friendly poke with our pitchforks.
All that and we've been waiting since, what, thursday?
edit
Also, it'd be real nice if the angry mob in my sig was animated...
|
Benri Konpaku
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: White Tree CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Don't worry, I see it as an act of desperation caused once their bad choices caught up to them. Problem is instead of allowing the player base to have any sort of say (through you) they've been obviously trying to sneak stuff behind our backs like freaking kids trying to hide the broken vase from their parents.
Come freaking on.
So it's time for some spanking and for them to face the consequences of their actions. To work to bring things back to order. If they show that they are willing to bring EVE back to the community and give it the respect they used to then I (and probably many others) will listen. But if they give any more just-to-buy-enough-time crap I'm out.
Also, they should know by now I (and probably most people raging here) would've never spent this kind of time trying to claw EVE back if it wasn't important to me, even if in the end is just a silly video game about spreadseets. That's how different EVE is compared to all the other games and they know that better than me. So like someone said earlier, I rather quit while EVE is still relatively pretty than stay and watch it die a horrible death.
TL;DR I'm willing to listen but it depends on them, so we'll see. |
|
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:30:00 -
[51]
Ill wait and see on this meeting.
If i don't see due humility and them asking for forgiveness on some level then they can sit on it and rotate.
They need to take a step back and look in the mirror starting with the highest level.
I will wait to see what comes out of the CSM meeting then decide if CCP really cares about its players.
|
Tir Arsil
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:30:00 -
[52]
White Tree, what line in the digital sand need CCP cross for you yourself to unsub?
Now what if you hear in Reykjavfk that because of CCP's financial situation, they "must" enact :unsubbable condition:? Would you help them, to keep EVE alive? Would you resign your CSM position but still play? Would you unsub? |
Cataca
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:31:00 -
[53]
So you abandoned what you previously supported to go for the collective idea...
How about.. no.
How would i support someone as opportunistic to support what i think?
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:31:00 -
[54]
CCP lost my loyalty and support with the blatant "**** you" they gave us in the beginning.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tir Arsil White Tree, what line in the digital sand need CCP cross for you yourself to unsub?
Now what if you hear in Reykjavfk that because of CCP's financial situation, they "must" enact :unsubbable condition:? Would you help them, to keep EVE alive? Would you resign your CSM position but still play? Would you unsub?
Good question. For me personally, as a player, they'd need to alter the game in a way which would shift the nature of the community to a degree wherein I found it intolerable and/or to where the game became alien. That includes any 'Pay2Win' scenarios. I like EVEs community and I really don't want it to be destroyed. The same goes for EVE as a game. _______________________________________
|
Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic Holy Empire of The Unshaven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:33:00 -
[56]
You really think you have the power to sway CCP from their plans to bail themselves out of their dreadful mismanagement with more of OUR money that they haven't earned?
More power to you. But, as for me, I say: PROVE IT.
MAKE THEM LISTEN. MAKE THEM GIVE US WHAT WE WANT. MAKE THEM SAY: "No Non-Vanity MT EVER."
Unless you can do that. NOW. With THIS meeting. You, and all the other CSMs that are now and ever will be are exactly what I have always said: Cheap CCP PR stunt. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Go. Go to Iceland. See what your corporate masters give you PERMISSION to say when you come back.
/out *
* |
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tir Arsil White Tree, what line in the digital sand need CCP cross for you yourself to unsub?
Now what if you hear in Reykjavfk that because of CCP's financial situation, they "must" enact :unsubbable condition:? Would you help them, to keep EVE alive? Would you resign your CSM position but still play? Would you unsub?
To be honest I believe myself they crossed that line three steps back. I think that in the past there has been too much tolerance on the part of our fan-base. And that was from our trust in CCP. With that long gone now however, I look back on the stuff that we as players let slide and face-palm at our naivety.
|
Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:34:00 -
[58]
I will happilly return to my shippy and abandon the forum fight for CCP to care, should you secure 3 things for me:
Ship spinning. A promise of only vanity items on NEX. a big sea trout called Henry.
If you can secure these 3 items for me, I shall do as you request.
|
Miryade Loon
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:35:00 -
[59]
CCP knows for months your position : No, except for purely cosmetic, cheap items. What did they do ? They didn't listen to you.. CCP knows that before posting a devblog, they should send it to you for advice. What did they do ? First devblog by Zulu was commented, yet they didn't listen...
Seeing that our rage wasn't decreasing like they had forsee it... They use the best PR they have, the CSM. The second devblog was full of ****, yet the CSM managed to turn it into something more acceptable by us (At least CCP learns from their errors).
They are summoning you ? Why ? To delay, and to give the impression that they have understood us.
THEY HAVE NOT. They try to calm things down using the CSM, and the worst of it is that we are buying it. Please : Don't be naive.
They had plenty of time to listen to us, to listen to our representative (the CSM), and yet, they didn't : You are part of the plan, as faire valoir.
No more trust in us. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Miryade Loon
No more trust in us.
I trust that CCP will change back exactly as much as I trust that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isn't trying to develop nuclear weapons
|
|
Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:37:00 -
[61]
So you get a ticket to Iceland and it gives you a boner?
Anyone ever wonder what's the price of dignity? Whatever the fare is from JFK to Reykjavik.
Until they guarantee no pay to win, they're the opposition. If it's legit that they need money like we need oxygen - then watch out! This began long ago, the day they introduced a free to play option via PLEX. What the hell did they expect would happen? Simple progression.
While I hope y'all will be successful, if we have any chance at all - trat everything with suspicion and keep your smiles of awe to yourself fanboi. Play it straight for all of our benefit.
Don't eff this up
Koba
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
|
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:37:00 -
[62]
Thank you for the message White Tree.
All I will ever ask of CCP is to be treated fairly and with a degree of respect, and I will more then happy to return in kind.
Please pass on my message and regards to the rest of CCP. There was an Idea that was Eve, and that was that whatever you possess, you gained on merit, however worthy or nefarious. Not because you had access to DaddyÆs credit card..... |
a newbie
Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:40:00 -
[63]
Thank you White Tree, You have earned my respect through this post, I hope you continue to remain a CSM and work alongside (and hope he stays) Seleene in future CSM electorals.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Koba Kyogen So you get a ticket to Iceland and it gives you a boner?
Anyone ever wonder what's the price of dignity? Whatever the fare is from JFK to Reykjavik.
I'm serious when I say I didn't want to go because its a lot of stress. Also I live in Ireland and its not that much of a trip.
Look I'm not trying to promise you the moon and stars here because I can't deliver but we've got to try something, right? _______________________________________
|
Liva Daril
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:41:00 -
[65]
The main problem here is hubris in CCP management, and most unprofessional corporate habits and racial based nepotism. If only half of the stuff on Glassdoor is to be believed.
They deemed the cash cow stupid enough to keep on munching and remunching the same old content for now about 18 months(planet based flash games don¦t count). Just to finance their endeavors, which clearly overtaxed their finances, now we shall pull them out of the fire AGAIN, with Monocles no less?
Sorry to be the pessimist, but you¦ll get a fancy dinner and then you¦ll get laid CSM. Hope your plane tickets have the return flight included.
The funny part is that the cash cow would¦ve grudgingly continued to munch on, if only that Incarna client hadn¦t been made mandatory. The reason of course was to entice us into "pimping" our barbie dolls with MT crap.
But now the sleepers have awakened, and I don¦t think we¦ll go back to sleep that easily.
Imagine that, all just because of one missing "enter CQ" button on that old ship-spinning hangar.
Quote:
|
Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic Holy Empire of The Unshaven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:42:00 -
[66]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Koba Kyogen So you get a ticket to Iceland and it gives you a boner?
Anyone ever wonder what's the price of dignity? Whatever the fare is from JFK to Reykjavik.
I'm serious when I say I didn't want to go because its a lot of stress. Also I live in Ireland and its not that much of a trip.
Look I'm not trying to promise you the moon and stars here because I can't deliver but we've got to try something, right?
Yes. Unsub. Since MONEY is the only thing they care about.
*
* |
La Chukukabra
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:42:00 -
[67]
Edited by: La Chukukabra on 28/06/2011 02:47:20 Can't see anything changing, in all honesty.
The leaked memo, the employees review of CCP, the financial report.
It all paints a picture where the only opinions that matter are not those of the subscribers, nor the CSM, nor even the majority @ CCP.
Its obvious who decides whats 'best' and I am not expecting anything positive.
There will be other MMO's and as soon as one appears which can match or surpass EVE, in any form, players would leave anyways.
My advice, just play the game, forget all this AUR crap, just dont buy it and another MMO will come along. Some major ones in the pipeline.
|
Irie Irie Irie
Caldari Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:42:00 -
[68]
I'll watch what they do, not what they say. Let's face it. The Devs are a bunch of two-faced incompetent liars. You can try to white night them all you like but the fact remains they are ****ty with their player-base and out of touch with the state of the game AS IT IS PLAYED.
This sounds like their usual tactic of stonewalling, perhaps throwing out a few token bones and hoping the community somehow mellows or runs out of steam before announcing everything is OK and "amazing". ~~~
|
Taak Coram
Gallente Outdated Host Productions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:42:00 -
[69]
Very well said. Like I said before, I want to keep flying. I hope the meeting clears things up a bit.
|
Carli Zandrya
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:42:00 -
[70]
My thoughts exactly. You have done a far better job at iterating this issue than I ever could have. In my mind the intent of the 'protests' was to scorn the behavior, not the people behind it. They are human. The entire staff should be proud of this virtual world they helped create and manage, but it's up to the masses to keep them honest.
I'm very proud of this community and what has been done. I hope that all sides have learned from this and will continue to (responsibly) voice their opinions.
Relationships are key, and trust is at the very core of mutual progress. --------------------------------------------- My expectations aren't high enough to be overly disappointed. |
|
Alara IonStorm
Caldari Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:43:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I trust that CCP will change back exactly as much as I trust that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isn't trying to develop nuclear weapons
What if they are only Vanity Nukes.
Would that be OK?
-- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
|
Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:43:00 -
[72]
Well, good luck to you and other CSM members on your journey. May you find a solution that will be accepted by everyone on both sides of the barricades!
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:44:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Carli Zandrya
I'm very proud of this community and what has been done.
Yeah, as I said before I was really impressed with the reaction. _______________________________________
|
Harcosi
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:44:00 -
[74]
-> Non-Vanity MT <- -> Non-Vanity MT <- -> Non-Vanity MT <- -> Non-Vanity MT <- -> Non-Vanity MT <- -> Non-Vanity MT <-
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I trust that CCP will change back exactly as much as I trust that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isn't trying to develop nuclear weapons
What if they are only Vanity Nukes.
Would that be OK?
If you make a nuke out of pinball machine parts the Libyans will come after you in a van
|
Zeko Rena
Caldari Tankt
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:45:00 -
[76]
CSM posted threads need like a color next to them, like dev threads, bring that up :P
(I thought this was just a regular old topic) --------------------------
|
Shade ATX
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:46:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Shade ATX on 28/06/2011 02:47:30 So your trip..CCP isn't paying for it? I notice you stated you were broke.. I mean they are the ones asking for the meeting they are the ones with the cash. The analogy that comes to mind is the Great White Fathers generals asking the Indian chiefs to all travel 100's of miles on ponies to meet and sign a treaty that they fully intended too not to honor. Poor chief's didn't know that did they? =(
My honest question is this CSM - Can they be asked why EVE hasn't been developed? Perfecting current content and maybe adding a little more to the sandbox ..nothing crazy just some. The financials show that the money is there and it would make us so happy. Couple that with some DEV talk on the forums chatting us up..just a little would really solidify their base I think.
GL on trip
ps. dont be a poor chief /wink
|
Sisohiv
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:47:00 -
[78]
My only real grievance is with the decay of core EVE. Risk is an optical illusion in a video game. Its code, it's absolutes. After 8 years the game has been mathed to no fun. CCP need to address core EVE. If after that they have time to play around with WoD and Dust, fine but WoD and Dust need to be back burner to EVE. |
Don Janitor Otichoda
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:47:00 -
[79]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
Action is better than words (like Hilmar said) and I did not see any solid action yet. Based on this I am sorry but I do not agree with any sort of pause.
|
Nephilius
Caldari Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:48:00 -
[80]
I haven't thought of CCP as the enemy...they've provided this really sweet game for myself and everyone else to play. I'm not even mad about the MTs and such. It's the CQ and ambulation that have gotten my hackles up. I just don't think it has any place in this game. Others WILL disagree with me. I welcome that, because without it, there are no carebears, yarrbears, scammers and suckers.
The only thing I really want is some type of compromise...continue on with the ambulation and CQ, but let people opt out of both if they desire. Bring back ship spinning. I want to see progress, but just not at a ninety degree angle to what the game started out as...internet spaceships.
|
|
Lucius Tal
Minmatar Tal Holdings Limited
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:48:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Reilly Duvolle In the end, we that have unsubscribed havent done so because we hate CCP. We have done so because we love EVE, and we HATE the idea of it beeing destroyed by shortsighted financial concerns. Still, CCP needs to have a financial situation that enables them to go forth. Your job is to contribute to a reconciliation of those two concerns. CCP absolutely needs to make money for the company to be sustainable, and the players want EVE back. Better than ever. With a community as strong as ours, I am sure there are ways.
You took the words right out of my mouth
|
Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:49:00 -
[82]
:brofist:
|
Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:49:00 -
[83]
I look forward to hearing what comes of this meeting, thank you White Tree for sharing your thoughts on the situation, it always helps to hear from others that you aren't alone in caring about something.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
|
Neridah Tanz
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:50:00 -
[84]
+1
Despite the wailing on the forums from the just HTFU or leave people.
I also think the follow what CCP do rather than say is important now. After all that was what Hilmar said is important right ;)
I suspect that that is why so many who feel so passionately about this have unsubbed, and are waiting to see what happens.
Key is for those who care to post to CSM members here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=752166
and Particularly here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540442 for a broad statement of issues and here,
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540259 for a discussion of what you would accept if the NeX store is here to stay.
|
Tugrath Akers
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:51:00 -
[85]
Bring back pictures of the pants.
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:53:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Sri Nova Is there a thread posted or a place that is gathering all the ideas and thoughts that have been brought to light ? I know we have the threadocalypse . I was hoping for maybe a sticky that has a list of links and posts to highlight all the good ideas and thoughts that have been posted regarding this event . That way people will know what is being brought to CCP's attention.
There are some attempts at lists in the assembly hall.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
|
Velvet Dream
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:53:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Velvet Dream on 28/06/2011 02:56:34 I frankly don't understand what all the rage is about. You can already buy SP for USD (USD->PLEX->ISK->character bazaar), uber weapons and modules that are enormously more powerful than anything 99.999% of population can reasonably afford or risk (USD->PLEX->ISK->estamel's invulneravility field). So why don't you just let CCP have this and people who either don't care about the cash or are stupid enough to blow the money on an advantage that simply exposes them to a higher monetary risk?
Nubs in EVE can already buy a 75b nightmare (equivalent to 200 plex or about $3400 USD in CCP PLEX sale price), which sure is much more powerful than many other ships. I think the foundation of EVE is price/power, not absolute power. The uber nubs will be outnumbered and slaughtered and will lose their precious AUR. Better kill board mail for you, more money for CCP, Nothing to cry about. As long as CCP doesn't start selling uber ammo for super cheap in AUR... who cares? Nothing new. PvP outcome is still mainly going to be based on skill and numbers.
If you want to feel powerful based on your time investment into the game and you feel like your hard work and advantage is being taken away by introduction of potential time shortcuts, EVE is not a game for you and has never been. WoW is. Also nothing will substitute for actual play experience. PvP in EVE is often not about absolute power but better intel, fitting and fleet command.
I do find the fact that AUR prices are not aligned to an even number of PLEX super cheap however. It forces you to spend double in AUR on some items.
I also think selling SP is not in CCP's interest as people will get bored of the game quicker if they can get all the uber power fast.
Also, AUR items can be sold on contracts, so the USD->PLEX->ISK->AUR->ISK->whatever is a closed loop and doesn't really change anything except providing opportunities for profit for AUR item resellers. The PLEX->ISK->AUR loop is closed even though AUR can't be directly traded back for PLEX or ISK.
Nothing new here, move on.
|
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:54:00 -
[88]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Trolling again are we?
|
Ein Spiegel
Minmatar Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:55:00 -
[89]
I reiterate... make sure your return tickets are bought, just in case.
Also, with what I know of those who were elected, I expect you all to not roll over and do CCP any favors on core causes for rage.
Hope you have a productive meeting, and that Zulu is not still hampered by frustration. (Also, carry my best wishes for Pann and family.)
No ****ing in the sandbox, and can we please get the hangar back at least as an option?
P.S. I want a pink rifter. With rainbow decals.
|
Nuramori
Amarr Drama Llamas
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:55:00 -
[90]
Great news White Tree and great post, it's refreshing to hear, and hopefully sparks some optimism that was typically inherent in the eve community before the last few weeks of chaos.
+100
|
|
Cataca
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:55:00 -
[91]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Carli Zandrya
I'm very proud of this community and what has been done.
Yeah, as I said before I was really impressed with the reaction.
Opportunistic, because that was certainly not how you sounded at the start of this whole thing.
I hope this will turn out for the best, but certainly not for you to support any opinion of players, because you have shown how easily your own changes.
|
Novak Sarin
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:57:00 -
[92]
I respect the work of the CSM, I think it's one of the many aspects that makes EVE unique. But in this specific situation I'm very dissapointed that CCP's intention is to buy time and once again diverge the attention of the players.
I don't see CCP as an "enemy", after all this is still a videogame, but I'm worried that they way you express yourself about CCP borders into loyalty. Please remember that it was CCP who incited this rage with their offensive and unprofessional way of handling the critiques. I'm not saying you should be offensive in return, but please be... (you're gonna love this) FEARLESS!
No matter what the CCP's intentions are for this meeting, you have the power to make a difference. Let your voice be heard! Demand transparency and clarity towards the community!
Good luck.
|
Galen Brahe
Minmatar Uncharted Chaos Leather Rose Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:59:00 -
[93]
Excellent. Very respectful of White Tree to entertain CCPÆs concerns and put forth the player agenda. I put some faith in the process that we might begin to see some of the changes in attitude from CCP management that seem so dearly needed. While we may put forth some hope in the form of the CSM, I would like to propose that we work also on a secondary strategy that does not involve DESUB. Personally, I think that the DeSub idea is a lose/lose situation and we need to be looking for a win/win situation that A) Increases our stake in the development of the product, (hint) B) Solves most of the cash flow issues that CCP seems to have created in a venture that may be only short term gain. (ie. the life of a console game)
GL White Tree
|
Liva Daril
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:59:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Velvet Dream Nothing new here, move on.
You don¦t understand a thing. ISK for gametime was with EVE practically from the beginning. Plex was necessary to fight the RMT sweatshops. AURUM is solely about EVE becoming pay to win, Monocles or even golden Scorps aren¦t the problem. It¦s the lost trust that "Tribal Machariels" aren¦t in the pipeline.
Quote:
|
Yvan Ratamnim
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:01:00 -
[95]
I agree with white tree, there needs to be a moritoriam on bulls*it in the forum atleast until a few days after the meeting
White Tree any word from CCP on the NDA during this meeting?
btw please see if you can get CCP management to do one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeP6CpUnfc0
|
Melkath Bandrom
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:02:00 -
[96]
No matter how much CSM and CCP talk at the table, the end result will only be that CCP WILL go on with MT because CCP is a business and no business can exist without posting profit GAINS each quarter.
As much as it makes me physically ILL to have to say this, CSM will accomplish nothing at the end of the day except accepting the lie smoothly whispered in their ears.
CCP see's a profit opportunity. It MUST take it even at the expense of losing 2-5% of it's "golden goose" accounts. P2W is an absolute CERTAINTY no matter how much CCP will say it's not. It may not happen now or in 3 months or 6 months... BUT It WILL happen. CCP's pursuit of greed has made it inevitable no matter how many BOV's leave!
I have seen devs talk of the past on how much they love the game, how much Hilmar loved the game and how EveOnline was such a work of love etc etc... Times change. There is no love by Hilmar and the team he chose to surround himself with. That love (if it ever truly existed) has only turned to greed.
One thing CSM and its supporters MUST understand is that while CCP may be willing to talk and listen, it ultimately is a business and has absolutely NO reason to allow CSM or the players to get in the way of profit. And it WON'T.
For every BOV Eve loses, it will gain 2 utterly new players who will use MT to purchase quicker skill learning implants, or purchase a 8y/o BOV toon then pay some more cash and buy a Gold <inert item name here> that NO player had to build or commit any industry work to create. It will be a CERTAINTY that Industry will go away simply because any Industrialist will not be able to stop CCP from taking the ISK from their pockets via MT.
Eve will then be played by a bunch of noob players who are at the TOP rank in skills and isk wealth simply because they have the $$$ to make themselves rich in game. (Yes I know this is already possible but it doesn't happen to the extent that the future will allow once P2W really gains hold)
This may not happen now but it WILL happen eventually simply because GREED and business profit DEMAND it. Thats the whole purpose of running a business. PROFIT! not love...
|
Arias Dren
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:04:00 -
[97]
Hate to say it, but, NO NDA, or what's the ****ing point.
|
Kez Aumer
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:07:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny If you make a nuke out of pinball machine parts the Libyans will come after you in a van
My DeLorean is fueled and ready to go, so I should be perfectly safe.
|
Nox Aeterna
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Nox Aeterna on 28/06/2011 03:09:27 Thank you for your voice of reason, White Tree. 100% agree with everything you said.
|
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Terran United Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 -
[100]
I have been watching many threads and pages and hardly playing the game these days. I am pleased how the Community raged and protested the Ideas.
Though Trolling post need to stop but everyone needs to keep an eye out on this and watch what happens with this. I hope CCP bring MT if it help but not to effect the game play at all. Other wise this a major mistake they make and ruin a game they been building.
------------------------------------
|
|
FantomChaser
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
SO SAY WE ALL
|
Zixie Draco
The Queue
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:09:00 -
[102]
Please don't forget to take your kitten to the conference!..Kittens work wonders. But you already know this
|
Fi1ippo
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:10:00 -
[103]
Guess we will see soon if your inspiring words will be in vein.
"The man behind the mask is a Maverik Letting off buck-ten shots for the hat trick."
From the song Overtime (Maverik Lacrosse Commercial), by D.One.
Life = Lax |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 28/06/2011 03:13:44
Originally by: Miryade Loon CCP knows for months your position : No, except for purely cosmetic, cheap items. What did they do ? They didn't listen to you.. CCP knows that before posting a devblog, they should send it to you for advice. What did they do ? First devblog by Zulu was commented, yet they didn't listen...
Seeing that our rage wasn't decreasing like they had forsee it... They use the best PR they have, the CSM. The second devblog was full of ****, yet the CSM managed to turn it into something more acceptable by us (At least CCP learns from their errors).
They are summoning you ? Why ? To delay, and to give the impression that they have understood us.
THEY HAVE NOT. They try to calm things down using the CSM, and the worst of it is that we are buying it. Please : Don't be naive.
They had plenty of time to listen to us, to listen to our representative (the CSM), and yet, they didn't : You are part of the plan, as faire valoir.
No more trust in us.
Pre-supposing the outcome is not conducive to effective negotiations.
Yes they may just be trying to delay things, Doesn't change anything we give them a chance to make things right. NO skin off my nose my sub stays cancelled until they've satisfied me that they fully understand the magnitude of their error and have made some sort of conciliatory gesture in addition to a firm commitment to go no further with their cash shop.
Ideally I'd like to see the whole NEX scrapped. I think it's a mistake to put anything in a subscription based game behind a pay window.
Too White Tree,
Make sure they understand that what ever nonsense they've decided to believe from the MT proponents that their playerbase are not the ADHD kiddies playing Battlefield heros. This is not a Free to Play FPS this is a subscription based single shard persistent universe MMO where actions have consequences and that a cash shop is caustic to such a system.
Because what will happen is that over time more and more effort will be put into developing cash shop content rather than standard game content, why balance hybrids after all when some new shinny in the NEX store will generate revenue after all?
Next you see features released only to the cash shop rather than to the community at large.
Make them understand that they have to admit their error and own up to it.
CCP is not our enemy they are more like a good friend who's gotten himself hooked on ******* they have a problem and we want to help but we're not going to be a party to their self destruction.
No MT for concierge services no MT for performance enhancers of any kind no increased skill learning no instant faction no charging us to get back our ship fittings.
In fact I highly recommend suggesting to them as a sign of good faith the following.
Up the ship fitting storage to 1000 fits now it shouldn't be hard one quick code change.
Release the political prisoners. Helicity, Liang and other members of the community that were banned in the recent troubles. If the IRA could receive amnesty I see no reason that some people who did some stuff on an online game can't.
If revenue is really a problem then I suggest finding a different way to fill that whole. Perhaps try some sort of limited stock options, something like Plex for Dust shares. Hell you might have more than a few people willing to buy into the project a lot of our players actually have some money in real life after all and might be interested in getting in on a little of that action.
Basically stop treating us like marks in a con, the community really wants to be able to support CCP we really want the game to succeed. People put in massive amounts of real life effort into this game. See all the fan developed tools.
Capitalize on that resource don't monetize it.
Consider how much better it would be to have the energy manifested in the recent rebellion directed in support of CCPs goals rather than in opposition to them?
|
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Zagdul on 28/06/2011 03:13:02
Hello White Tree.
I have a few requests for the meeting:
1. Would you mind delivering to them that when they write their "retractions / corrections" that they need to do it in a manner that is not condescending, and in plain English.
No metaphors, no joking and keep it serious business. They need to be completely clear on the way they deliver their message and not just with this instance, but also going forward. There are some blogs we don't mind being comical or having some humor injected, however the arrogance they've had lately with how it seems they view their customers has become insulting. Especially with their responses on the forums.
2.
If they decide that cash shops are the future of EVE, advise that by mimicking the F2P market with a subscription model in tact, they are in fact trying to have their cake and eat it too. They cannot use the model of "power ups" for EVE's model and retain a monthly fee. If they decide to go with the "isk to win/gold ammo/sp for aur" they need to drop the subscription and publically state they are going F2P.
3. If they want to make AUR profitiable. They need to focus on "casinos" within stations during the winter expansion. These casinos use AUR as the currency. If money is a problem for them, this will be their best source of income. Period. Look at any other gaming model on the market who uses a cash shop.
4. They need to realize that 1 aur cannot = $1. It needs to be cheap to use the cash shop and they should be trying to sell by volume, not by rarity.
|
Optional Patch
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 -
[106]
Quote: We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake.
|
i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
Gallente sHaKeDoWn..
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:16:00 -
[107]
Thank you and good luck.
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:17:00 -
[108]
Well, at least we know that one CSM member is completely useless and that this won't end well.
This CSM = Cindy Lou Who
CCP = The Grinch
|
Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:19:00 -
[109]
Originally by: FantomChaser
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
SO SAY WE ALL
so say we all
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
|
buck herrick
SS-20
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:19:00 -
[110]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
QFT.
give the forums a rest, please.....my eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)
good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.
|
|
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:20:00 -
[111]
this is a time where we should look less at what ccp says, and more at what they do.
|
Rakamy
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:24:00 -
[112]
I could not agree more, we as a community need to sit on our hands for the time being to see what comes out of this meeting. I will also add that it's about time some one came to the table with a resounding call to reason to stop all this "foolishness" (for lack of a better word).
Also white you mentioned ccp called an emergency meeting once before, do you know what that was for? and when it was?
|
Nyssa Litari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:25:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Holly Cleland I will happilly return to my shippy and abandon the forum fight for CCP to care, should you secure 3 things for me:
Ship spinning. A promise of only vanity items on NEX. a big sea trout called Henry.
If you can secure these 3 items for me, I shall do as you request.
Tell her to make me a cambric shirt... parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme... without no seams nor needlework, then she'll be a true love of mine.
|
Zuquar Bonaparte
New Dawn Corporation Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:25:00 -
[114]
personally id like to thank you for making this post, its nice to hear from 1 of you.
sadly im not to optimistic about what will be the outcome of your trip, CCP seems to have there minds stuck on forcing there decisions apon us regardless of what we say or do, only reason your being calld up there is to try stall us as long as possible to keep the income flowing while they finish there other games so they can let eve die as we are to demanding for them to bother keep trying to saticfy us "ungratefull" customers.
I allso think its very sad that you as a CSM most likely will be used as an excuse to justify there actions.
only positive thing about all this is that the friends iv made in eve allrdy are playing WOT(most joined after last years, we wont do poop for 18 months incedent) as I, or as I going to convert to another game where we can be together again as a corp of friends from all over the world.(Perpetuum looks like it suits the purpose)
regards a player who has loved eve for 6 years of constantly playing and will be very sad to leave, which will happen if anything less than a complete withdrawel off all ideas about P2W ontop of subs is taken off the table for good.
MT IN EVE? HELL NO !! Linkage
|
Teddy Hess
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:29:00 -
[115]
White Tree:
I appreciate your remarks and your efforts. However I am somewhat a skeptic in the validity of the opinions of the CSM when you are dealing with the real life issues related to a corporation and the market strategy for the product that corporation makes. We are all aware of the financial requirements. We are all aware that CCP has been robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I have no issue with the Microtransactions as long as they are limited to Vanity items - none of the community does. Heck if CCP wants an extra buck on that stuff then I say go for it. However where all of us are frustrated is the deflection to our primary question related to the game changing items, skills, standings etc. that we all understand CCP to want to move the NeX to. It was leaked in "black and white". There is no denial of this fact.
I hope for the sake of the game we all love that I am wrong but I believe there are hidden plans and agendas that even the CSM will not be privy to - why - you are not shareholders and are of no consequence to the corporation. As I have opined in another post. EVE is the intellectual property of CCP and therefore they have creative license to do with it what they will.
Those changes may result in a loss of customer base but again that over time will be replaced and EVE and CCP will survive. Is it right for the community of players that have supported the game and community - no. But what is right for business?
I do hope you have a positive meeting however I would request that you remove the rose colored glasses and communicate back to all of us the truth. I believe that is all anybody has requested from the beginning. We have recieved double speak and diversionary propaganda and frankly it is an insult to all of us. I still have maintained my accounts (I purchase by the year) and probably will maintain my accounts regardless of the decision because this game is enjoyment for me outside of my hectic work life and family life.
I just what to know what I am up against and if Microtransations are going to expand into in game advantages. Granted CCP said never to MT's about a year ago but it is the right of every corporation to change policy to increase profit. However if the writing is on the wall, and yes I can read it, I believe the CSM and CCP are in for a bumpy ride and a long plane trip back from Iceland.
Good Luck, Safe Travel and Gods Speed
|
Marcus Vorenius
Task Force 42
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:31:00 -
[116]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
It's too little too late - we need to see actions from CCP (e.g. roll-back Incarnage/temporarily disable CQ, close the Nex store etc.) before focusing on long-term strategy.
During this pause CCP will continue with guerrilla PR in Twitter and other social media and they will drag you back to the game one by one.
Actions and a statement from the CEO directly to the community as a minimum. ----------------------------------------------- "The No A$$HOLE Rule" by Robert Sutton, PhD |
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:31:00 -
[117]
Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people.
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:34:00 -
[118]
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people.
The 'martyrs' are people like Mynxee and Teadaze, not some jackasses who made real life threats or used violent imagery.
I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion in the least and the ONE thing I give CCP credit for is that they haven't muzzled me.
|
Starfall Achura
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:34:00 -
[119]
Please read my post. I think this is what you need to be prepared to discuss in Iceland if you haven't been told already. Notice there is no rage only a (mostly) constructive conversation
I am fail wit making a link work on these forums so I will just leave the link to copy and paste. Sorry
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541314
p.s. how the hell do you make a working link? Mine keps coming up null
|
Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:36:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 28/06/2011 03:36:16 No I didn't read the whole thread:
What I want delivered as a message to CCP is this. Your last 'Patch' put our computers in to overload. The first thing I need to do when logging in my 'main' account is to make sure that I rotate the camera away from the 'television set' or I have to listen to my computer scream like a wounded banshee in heat. You need to make 'Incarana' and 'Walking in stations' OPTIONAL. If that means making a low-poly 'pod' when you dock fine. Right now my computer protests at my main account (only) being logged in.
Why on earth should I bother expending additional funds for the two 'alt' accounts I have when the client can put my quad-core computer on its knees while trying to handle a single account. I have friends that want to play Eve Online with liquid cooled computers that have disconnected when the temperatures sky rocked while LOGGING IN. You are, as it stands at best, going to only get 1/3rd the money you did from me last month until this issue is addressed. You can see my accounts from your side, please feel free to watch.
If you figure that you can do better with 'fresh players', please let me know rather than thinking you can drag me along with your propaganda. At the end of July, if nothing changes, I have little to no reason to continue playing this game with my main account, let alone my other two accounts. Multiple accounts are part of the 'way of eve' for many players. If you don't want that anymore, that is fine with me, but I'm taking my wallet with me when I go. You have a month to speak or I walk. I won't encourage others along this path, they can make up their own damn mind. Nobody here needs to be told what to do, they only need to follow what is best for them. . I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore! |
|
Shadow XII
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:40:00 -
[121]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Your words fill me with hope and faith, White Tree, you Gallente ****.
I'm awaiting the end of the meeting with bated breath, but I trust you and the rest of the CSM to stand up for us. I don't believe you're in a conspiracy with CCP, nor that you will back down.
Please, come through for us.
|
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group The Veerhouven Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:41:00 -
[122]
Tree, I think that was a great post, but I'm just afraid that anything CCP does right now is a delaying tactic to allow them to get a better idea of the financial impact of Incarnageddon. I seriously doubt that they will even consider anything real until the dollar signs, Euro signs, etc. have been counted.
***************************************************
Two years from now --> Gamer: "CCP? Never heard of it." |
Jacoba Stalker
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:41:00 -
[123]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
I'm more than willing to step back and give this a chance to work.
No they are not the enemy, but this is almost like finding a spouse that's been unfaithful. It's difficult to regain the trust once it's been shat upon.
|
The Ying
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:43:00 -
[124]
So.. people at CCP don't listen to the thousands of players that said NO to mt, don't listen to the gaming review sites, don't have common sense. They're going to listen to a couple dudes from CSM? interesting.
|
Starkiller Adams
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 -
[125]
1) I didnt know test let in gingers? :P 2) What do you personally want CCP to do to fix everything? 3) Should CCP be that st****d for cash what do you think would be a reasonable new price for subs?
|
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 -
[126]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 03:44:33
Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
QFT.
give the forums a rest, please.....my eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)
good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.
No CCP needs to be reminded every other post that we are not going to go away.
Stop trying to help it blow over.
|
Enna Shendara
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 -
[127]
You have the pause you've been asking for. But as someone said in another thread, we've paused to reload and see what the other side is doing. The fight isn't over yet, and the only way to make it end before the next salvo is if the other side is running up the white flag.
|
Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:47:00 -
[128]
WT, I hope you're right. I really do.
Give 'em hell and good luck. ________________
|
Atij Artua
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:47:00 -
[129]
Pushing aside the rhetoric for a moment....
1. What are you going to say to CCP that hasn't already been said many hundreds of times on the forums? 2. Is the meeting NDA or not? 3. Why is CCP meeting with small group, possibly in closed session, instead of talking directly to the playerbase? 4. What are you aiming to achieve that needs a select group meeting that could not be achieved by direct communication with the players?
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:51:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jacoba Stalker No they are not the enemy, but this is almost like finding a spouse that's been unfaithful. It's difficult to regain the trust once it's been shat upon.
EXACTLY.
Another metaphor:
CCP = Cheating scumbag (Tiger Woods)
This CSM = Tammy Wynette (Stand by your man)
Last CSM = Elin Nordegren (Hand me a golf club, then half your money.)
|
|
Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:53:00 -
[131]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people.
The 'martyrs' are people like Mynxee and Teadaze, not some jackasses who made real life threats or used violent imagery.
I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion in the least and the ONE thing I give CCP credit for is that they haven't muzzled me.
I consider T'Amber and Estel Arador 'martyrs' as well for their efforts in trying to expand the game. T'amber left to protest/make a point seeing what was to come and Estel left after seeing how CCP doesn't care about us as players. Still others fell trying to make a point in the protest/riots, pushing for the truth or by providing us information about what was going on. We have not seen the last of those who we shall lose nor will we know all their names such is the life of a pod pilot.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
|
Nuramori
Amarr Drama Llamas
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:55:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Nuramori on 28/06/2011 03:55:59 Since you're headed there, I think the mindset should be less of negotiations, and more of braintrust, with the goal of working for a common good. CCP wants to be financially sound, and the user base wants CCP to be financially sound, or we lose the game. We lose development and improvement. CCP needs us, we need them. Mutual goals, mutual needs.
After all the words that have flown by, and all the actions that have taken place, the results of a working session that results in everyone being happy would be a fantastic PR move. It would SHOW the rest of the industry that there is no one side that needs to win, that it's a synergistic relationship that needs to be fostered. We're not a blind golden goose.
I say CCP needs a supplemental income stream. After some thought I'm ok with MT, as LONG AS IT'S VANITY ONLY. even the EA presentation notes that the most effective conversion approach was the Pea****" group. This is a fair and reasonable compromise for them and the Eve community. They can count on MT, we can get alliance/corp logo'd ships, pink shirts, and CCP gets a nice income stream from the alpha types that dominate Eve.
CCP needs to tier the vanity items. More costly items are permanent, less costly ones are disposable/consumable. If having a logo slapped on a ship is cheap enough, then you're sure to see entire alliance fleets of branded ships flying, and at a low isk/aurum cost, they will re-buy it for every ship they lose. Hell, an alliance may make it mandatory to label your ship. For a higher tier item, you keep it regardless of your loss, like a monocle, banana sock in your pants, or a hook on your hand. What have you. If Captains quarters represents the first step to abulation, then the pea**** approach will only generate more demand for vanity items.
Increase subscription rates. Doesn't have to be a lot, a few bucks, and perhaps tier it. If you commit for a year, it's less (as it is now) but for the other tiers and less commitment, make the "penalty" greater. If people want eve but don't want Play2Win, then they surely can stomach a few bucks more. I don't even think Eve's rates have changed with inflation. People talk about "donating to help ccp", if they are good on that claim, then take an increase to the subscription.
IF there can't be some compromise to non-vanity MT, then I think the best accommodation is to make new/T2/ALL bpo's be bought strictly thru Aurum. This will keep the manufacturing as a player creation, and allow for in game sales of items. I agree that magical supply of anything in game is wrong, but if it has to happen, let it be the BPO so that the item still has to rely on the game economics for actual implementation. Maybe this is where CCP compromises and ALL T2 BPOS currently held become HIGH run copies, and they reset the T2 BPO market be allowing it to be accessible to all players wanting to get into the market.
If they need more ISK sink, the they need to capitulate on say hi sec moon mining. That would create a new group of pvp, as wardecs would increase, and total, botting carebears would now have to look out. There are acutally R32 and R64 moons in high sec. Let the output be an order of magnitude less than null, but allow those that want to try moon mining to have the opportunity, and give high sec citizens a new concern to challenge their lazy life. Imagine the pos bashing and wardecs that would liven all areas if this were to happen, and all the isk that would start sinking out.
Ok, so there are some thoughts, got more, but that's it for now. Good luck White Tree.
|
Falbala
Gallente Ishtar's Destiny
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:00:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Yana Steel CCP could end this drama in seconds if they wanted to. There's a bloody list of questions that need their answers on the forums, made by players.
I am absolutely certain that CCP's only desire for a meeting with the CSM is to bide time and have a players face on their damage control team.
I'd actually love to be proven wrong, really.
My 2 isk on this is they are deploying the next step to Incarna and show off improvements before the meeting. Now I can be wrong, the next step might worsen things but I don't think so.
|
SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari Working For The Enemy Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:03:00 -
[134]
Originally by: RougeOperator Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 03:44:33
Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
QFT.
give the forums a rest, please.....my eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)
good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.
No CCP needs to be reminded every other post that we are not going to go away.
Stop trying to help it blow over.
+1 Rouge All white tree is doing is allowing CCP time to try and sweep this crap under the rug and then hope it blows over
tsk tsk tsk white tree
|
Killmeded
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:03:00 -
[135]
I play this game because I like it. I love the player driven markets, the player invlovement on virtually every level of the game. The way this NEX market seems almost ducktaped on but I find that analogy a bit insulting to my matari brethren. NEX does not "feel" like eve. There is no invention, no construction, no mining, no research, no development, no interaction. Make the items be blueprints or something . . .
ON top of ALL of this there is NO LOSS!
If you are wearing something it must DIE WITH THE POD. If you buy furniture for your CQ it must be moveable so that u then can be GANKED. If you buy paint for your ship it is DESTROYED with the ship.
ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!
This is EVE and the FACT that you can LOSE it is one of the GREATEST things in the game. |
Kirkland Langue
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:04:00 -
[136]
I'm expecting a back-peddling of MT or laying out a major structural change to EVE (such as an overhaul of the Corp mechanics, SOV mechanics), or something really surprising to come out of this CSM meeting. Some crap like "as consolation to the players, we lower the cost of items in the NEX" isn't going to impress me.
|
SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari Working For The Enemy Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:05:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Killmeded I play this game because I like it. I love the player driven markets, the player invlovement on virtually every level of the game. The way this NEX market seems almost ducktaped on but I find that analogy a bit insulting to my matari brethren. NEX does not "feel" like eve. There is no invention, no construction, no mining, no research, no development, no interaction. Make the items be blueprints or something . . .
ON top of ALL of this there is NO LOSS!
If you are wearing something it must DIE WITH THE POD. If you buy furniture for your CQ it must be moveable so that u then can be GANKED. If you buy paint for your ship it is DESTROYED with the ship.
ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!
This is EVE and the FACT that you can LOSE it is one of the GREATEST things in the game.
+ 1
|
Fiire Watch
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:06:00 -
[138]
Its a start.
|
Markarian Aurelius
Caldari Bureau of Interstellar Exploration
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:07:00 -
[139]
I wish you best of luck to you and the rest of the CSM on your meeting with CCP. Anger and bitterness aside, I don't believe that this community is a completely inflexible one. There are ways to get us to spend, so long as they pick the *right* ways that work for our community as a whole and benefit the game.
However, I'm not going to resub all of my accounts until I hear back a favorable report and get to read the minutes of the meeting. CCP has to earn back my trust, just as they have to do the same for that of the CSM's.
|
SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari Working For The Enemy Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:08:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Fiire Watch Its a start.
Are you sure about that. The way things are heading it sounds to me to be the end.
|
|
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:10:00 -
[141]
Conflict of interest and politics are synonymous, and everyone understands the cozy collaborations that politicians forge to preserve their own power at the expense of the common welfare. It's harder to see that exactly the same process affects judges, scientists, and physicians, professionals who pride themselves on their ability to be intellectually independent for the sake of justice, scientific advancement, or public health. These are professionals whose training and culture promote the core value of impartiality, so most become indignant at the mere suggestion that financial or personal interests could contaminate their work. Their professional pride makes them see themselves as being above such matters. No doubt, some are; just as, at the other extreme, some judges and scientists are flat-out dishonest.... In between the extremes of rare integrity and blatant dishonesty are the great majority who, being human, have all the blind spots the rest of us have. Unfortunately they are also more likely to think they don't, which makes them even more vulnerable to being hooked.
...
Were the travelers aware of the power of reciprocity to affect their behavior? Not at all. But once reciprocity kicks in, self-justification will follow... "It's only a pizza, " the medical resident says. ... Once you take the gift, no matter how small, the process starts. You will feel the urge to give something back, even if it's only, at first, your attention, your willingness to listen. Eventually, you will become more willing to give your prescription, your ruling, your vote. Your behavior changes, but, thanks to blind spots and self-justification, your view of your intellectual and professional integrity remains the same.
-- Mistakes were made, but not by me.
As you accept the gift of a trip to Iceland, the drinks, the dinners, etc... Keep in mind that you also are human, and can be played like a fiddle.
|
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:12:00 -
[142]
meeting with CSM is a PR move to give them more time. nothing more, nothing less. hoping is nice, but i doubt anything will come of this. they KNOW what the community wants, they know what OUR priorities are from last year's meeting.
|
xxxTRUSTxxx
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:13:00 -
[143]
Tree, this is indeed a crossroad, i've loved this game and the community, i stand by and await good news. if good news does not arrive, i stand by and weep for what was once an amazing game.
|
Violine Ming
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:13:00 -
[144]
On one level I applaud the optimism and wish you luck White Tree. On another, I feel you are in for disappointment unless you can write a really large check.
I don't hate CCP. I think many individuals at CCP have good intentions. I also think many players went over the top in this whole escapade, as did CCP in their ****-poor handling of the aftermath. Unfortunately they brought this on themselves.
I believe CCP has their backs to a wall. They have overextended themselves building two new games utilizing the success of their flagship... and now they are broke. Their untennable financial situation has left them with few options, and they are picking the one they think has the best chance of survival, and ultimately they WILL do what they think is best for their business. I believe they are convinced that pay-to-win is that "best option", and nothing we (or the CSM) say or do will alter that decision. What is left is the details of how to communicate "the plan" with their playerbase in a way that does the least damage.
With that said, I hope I'm wrong. I'm not going to rage; I'm not going to threaten; I'm not going to scream. I am just going to state how pay-to-win will affect my personal relationship with CCP: The second P2W is implemented, I will unsub both of my accounts. Not a threat, just a fact. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am. I won't go away screaming in anger -I will go away wishing this story had a better ending.
|
Bob Nibblepibbley
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:14:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Bob Nibblepibbley on 28/06/2011 04:14:01 I want to hear from CCP that there will never be any game affecting items sold through MT. This includes things such as faction standing, etc. It must only be for overpriced vanity bull****.
I also want to hear from them that the recent fskups they made with 0.0, such as the changes in rat locations will be reversed.
Maybe then I will resub my 4 accounts. Yes. I am a bittervet.
|
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:14:00 -
[146]
I was going to evemail this to Seleene but you kind of volonteered there Tree. I have thought up a list of issues that I figured you, the CSM, could bring to CCP this weekend. Oh, and just a disclaimer, I haven't fired a single salvo in this nuclear forum war. Just a concerned citizen watching and waiting until now.
º1. We really, really need a gold-plated promise from CCP, prefably someone we still trust, like Oveur, that there will not be any game affecting items in the NeX. That includes, but are not limited to; free SP, extra neural remaps, faction standings, items that are not more powerful then current content but require no mineral input (ie a Aurum only Ishukone scorp as opposed to an Aurum + regular scorp trade), name changes, inplants and/or Dust-items (if Dust ever affect sov warfare).
º2. If there are to be super-expensive status symbols in the NeX there need to be a cheap counterweight. $70 monokles are fine as long as there are plenty of $4 eye-patches or the like. This will also be positive for CCPs economy as 5*$70/month = $350/month while 5*$70+100*$4/month = $750/month.
º3. Captains Quarters need to be optional and incentivized rather then forced. The agent finder is a great example of content that could be available only in CQ. It must be optional though, prefably with the old station enviroment put back in along with a Leave Ship button. We often get content that we feel are not directed at us, like the mining barges for pvpers, or the sov changes for miners. Never before though has content been forced on players in this manner.
º4. We really need an explenation, however brief, what Hilmar means when he writes that there is no reason to listen to the community. CCP has always been known to listen to it's customers and fans. If the mail is indeed not a counterfit it is a major change in attitude from CCP when the company's ceo suddenly writes to his empoyees that the views of the community is irrelevant.
Remember, only CCP can prevent forum fires.
|
SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari Working For The Enemy Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:15:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Ispai Ponue Conflict of interest and politics are synonymous, and everyone understands the cozy collaborations that politicians forge to preserve their own power at the expense of the common welfare. It's harder to see that exactly the same process affects judges, scientists, and physicians, professionals who pride themselves on their ability to be intellectually independent for the sake of justice, scientific advancement, or public health. These are professionals whose training and culture promote the core value of impartiality, so most become indignant at the mere suggestion that financial or personal interests could contaminate their work. Their professional pride makes them see themselves as being above such matters. No doubt, some are; just as, at the other extreme, some judges and scientists are flat-out dishonest.... In between the extremes of rare integrity and blatant dishonesty are the great majority who, being human, have all the blind spots the rest of us have. Unfortunately they are also more likely to think they don't, which makes them even more vulnerable to being hooked.
...
Were the travelers aware of the power of reciprocity to affect their behavior? Not at all. But once reciprocity kicks in, self-justification will follow... "It's only a pizza, " the medical resident says. ... Once you take the gift, no matter how small, the process starts. You will feel the urge to give something back, even if it's only, at first, your attention, your willingness to listen. Eventually, you will become more willing to give your prescription, your ruling, your vote. Your behavior changes, but, thanks to blind spots and self-justification, your view of your intellectual and professional integrity remains the same.
-- Mistakes were made, but not by me.
As you accept the gift of a trip to Iceland, the drinks, the dinners, etc... Keep in mind that you also are human, and can be played like a fiddle.
Oh there being played oh man are they being played i can hear the fiddle from here
|
Neom Disaki
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:15:00 -
[148]
When you CSM are visiting with CCP, please stress the point that convenience and functionality are NOT vanity. Many of these types of services that I can think of off the top of my head that CCP may try to sell, would actually affect the game play.
For example: Remaps, SP remaps/boosters, etc Reduced jump clone cooldowns Anything there is a skill for already Ship fitting slots (added functionality)
Most F2P games that aren't Pay2Win, not only sell appearance items, but usually these conveniences, which encourage the developers to build in inconveniences as a standard. Personally, I feel the game play is already largely inconvenienced.
|
Christina Carter
Caldari Northwest Passage
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:16:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Christina Carter on 28/06/2011 04:16:30 Personally I feel that the "meeting" should be broadcasted/recorded like they did with AC9. They certainly have the tech to do it. A special forum (topic) put in place so that we, the players, can ask questions or add our input in real time.
I think it is time for CCP to step up and answer to the true investors of Eve, us, the players.
Power to the Players! Eve Forever!
CC
|
Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:19:00 -
[150]
A damn fine post White Tree, and I wish CSM very well at their meeting with CCP. Despite being one of the more vocal protesters, I do still hold out a slim hope that Eve will once again become a game I can enjoy, if no longer love as I once did.
That said I will still be taking a break from Eve once my current 44 days run down. I feel I must do so, or not only will I seem a hypocrite to my friends and fellow Eve players (given my stated intentions in numerous posts and in-game), but CCP will not properly understand my outrage over Incarna (and all it represents), MT and CCP's treatment of their customers. Hilmar said it himself that CCP should ignore what us players say, and only take notice of our actions. So I must take clear and unambiguous action against CCP.
Now on a more positive note, my holiday from Eve need not be permanent. It's length will be determined by how much fun I have with other games and RL activities for a change, and how persuasive CCP is in returning Eve to it's former glory as an Internet Spaceships game first and foremost, with at worst limited MT items that are strictly vanity only (and a solem promise never to waver from that).
Good luck CSM! :-) -- Frog blast the vent core! |
|
Optional Patch
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:22:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Optional Patch on 28/06/2011 04:22:10
Quote: ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!
Well... without the typo obviously :)
|
Doh Stupid
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:22:00 -
[152]
Please White Tree, try to get our old hanger back. I awful lot of us want nothing to do with the captains quarters and we greatly miss our ship hangers, it just doesn't feel like eve without it.
|
Teddy Hess
Caldari United Space Marine Corp
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:23:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Nuramori Edited by: Nuramori on 28/06/2011 03:55:59 Since you're headed there, I think the mindset should be less of negotiations, and more of braintrust, with the goal of working for a common good. CCP wants to be financially sound, and the user base wants CCP to be financially sound, or we lose the game. We lose development and improvement. CCP needs us, we need them. Mutual goals, mutual needs.
After all the words that have flown by, and all the actions that have taken place, the results of a working session that results in everyone being happy would be a fantastic PR move. It would SHOW the rest of the industry that there is no one side that needs to win, that it's a synergistic relationship that needs to be fostered. We're not a blind golden goose.
I say CCP needs a supplemental income stream. After some thought I'm ok with MT, as LONG AS IT'S VANITY ONLY. even the EA presentation notes that the most effective conversion approach was the Pea****" group. This is a fair and reasonable compromise for them and the Eve community. They can count on MT, we can get alliance/corp logo'd ships, pink shirts, and CCP gets a nice income stream from the alpha types that dominate Eve.
CCP needs to tier the vanity items. More costly items are permanent, less costly ones are disposable/consumable. If having a logo slapped on a ship is cheap enough, then you're sure to see entire alliance fleets of branded ships flying, and at a low isk/aurum cost, they will re-buy it for every ship they lose. Hell, an alliance may make it mandatory to label your ship. For a higher tier item, you keep it regardless of your loss, like a monocle, banana sock in your pants, or a hook on your hand. What have you. If Captains quarters represents the first step to abulation, then the pea**** approach will only generate more demand for vanity items.
Increase subscription rates. Doesn't have to be a lot, a few bucks, and perhaps tier it. If you commit for a year, it's less (as it is now) but for the other tiers and less commitment, make the "penalty" greater. If people want eve but don't want Play2Win, then they surely can stomach a few bucks more. I don't even think Eve's rates have changed with inflation. People talk about "donating to help ccp", if they are good on that claim, then take an increase to the subscription.
IF there can't be some compromise to non-vanity MT, then I think the best accommodation is to make new/T2/ALL bpo's be bought strictly thru Aurum. This will keep the manufacturing as a player creation, and allow for in game sales of items. I agree that magical supply of anything in game is wrong, but if it has to happen, let it be the BPO so that the item still has to rely on the game economics for actual implementation. Maybe this is where CCP compromises and ALL T2 BPOS currently held become HIGH run copies, and they reset the T2 BPO market be allowing it to be accessible to all players wanting to get into the market.
If they need more ISK sink, the they need to capitulate on say hi sec moon mining. That would create a new group of pvp, as wardecs would increase, and total, botting carebears would now have to look out. There are acutally R32 and R64 moons in high sec. Let the output be an order of magnitude less than null, but allow those that want to try moon mining to have the opportunity, and give high sec citizens a new concern to challenge their lazy life. Imagine the pos bashing and wardecs that would liven all areas if this were to happen, and all the isk that would start sinking out.
Ok, so there are some thoughts, got more, but that's it for now. Good luck White Tree.
Damn Fine Suggestions there. I completely agree with this. A well thought out plan and proposal.
|
Jonathan Malcom
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:24:00 -
[154]
White Tree best tree. ___________________
|
Freya Kesanlaulu
Minmatar Arthashastra
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:24:00 -
[155]
I never hated CCP. And I'm sure they'll do the job well. _______________________________
|
Vid Eeomeet
Smoke 'n' Mirrors Knights Of Freedoms
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:30:00 -
[156]
Thread supported. I hope the CSM can deliver home to CCP the core messages of the players. Obviously where the outrage came from is clear.
The one thing I hope CCP hears more than anything is this potential 'pay to win' MT move they seem to be leaning toward, should be pulled from the table.
At most, MT items for industry I could see the players accepting. IMO, if MT items are introduced that effect pvp combat, that's where the line gets crossed for many of us.
Anyway, good post White Tree. I'm pulling for you. o7
|
Kelly Alleron
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:31:00 -
[157]
Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03 @ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you. @ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm. @ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.
Now on to my bit.
I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.
1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible." 2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub. 3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.
Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.
When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY. When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser? So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you? I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.
|
Ianus
Caldari Geminus Gateway
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:34:00 -
[158]
I just hope that whatever transpires over the next days will lead to a clear-cut strategy moving forwards that'll inspire the player-base, instead of a zillion pages long document that essentially says nothing.
Personally I give it a 1/5 chance that this meeting will be remembered as a fruitful endeavor, and that's good enough for me.
Good luck, CSM. We're all counting on you.
|
Trig Onami
Caldari Onami Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:37:00 -
[159]
The meeting will consist of a boardroom table.. One big shot on one side.. a bunch of small shots on the other side.. and there will be two words: "You're fired." -- Donald Trump EVE. The most ambitious project on earth. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:44:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 28/06/2011 04:44:54 One thing I do think people need to bear in mind here is that if CCP really is in dire financial straights due to being over extended with the WOD and Dust projects then they may really need a capital injection of some sort.
So it might be useful to have some funding alternatives to offer if they really are looking at insolvency.
I mean sure it's their own damned fault for being in that position but smug moral superiority isn't going to keep the servers running.
Personally I like the idea of plex for shares perhaps with a vanity item associated with it such as special hat or Monocle that would Identify the player as a stakeholder. So if they needed to generate 8 mil in additional capital they'd sell just over half a million plex shares in EVE to finance that.
These of course would have to be real shares which would pay out real dividends and purchase price in the case of a buy out of IPO. hell I'd be willing to buy a few shares per account over the next few months to have a real stake in the game.
Of course there is also the option of increasing the subscription price or some combination of the two.
I'm really against the idea of monetizing the player base and undermining the integrity of the game even vanity items worry me, this is why I like the idea of plex for shares with a vanity item associated because it divorces those vanity items from a cash shop mechanic to a stakeholder mechanic.
Perhaps even keeping track of the number of shares held by the individual so that at say 1 share you have access to a special t-shirt (I bought a share in CCP and all I got was this T-shirt) at 2 you get different pants 3 a jacket 4 special eyewear 5 special hats, 6 start getting custom paint jobs on your ships with cooler and cooler paint jobs depending on your stake in the company. No performance difference just cosmetic bits to show that you are a financial stakeholder in the game.
It would change the relationship between the company and subscriber from adversarial to interdependent.
And hell that would really be a new paradigm.
|
|
Kah'Roor
The Flaming Sideburn's
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:44:00 -
[161]
The opposite of love isn't hate, its apathy. The threadnaughts, statue shooting, and unsub post, just show passions are running high when we feel like our hobby (that many of us have spent years with) is being endangered for short term monetary gain and to fund things we don't care about. Go to Iceland, see what they have too say, express our concerns, we will all know soon enough what the future will hold. We are behind you and the rest of the CSM. GL Tree, I hope you can talk sense to them.
|
Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar Shadow Kitty Legion Rura-Penthe
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:52:00 -
[162]
Good post.
|
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:56:00 -
[163]
Yes, let's take a break people.
And oh White Tree, as you're there anyway can you ask them when we get a SP for AUR shop?
Thanks.
|
Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:58:00 -
[164]
Originally by: White Tree
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. [...]
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. [...]
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. [...]
Hi White Tree, do you recognize something?
You've just done your job, you don't need to fly to Iceland anymore. CCP needs the CSM only to calm down the waves. CCP isn't able to handle that protest alone, the management is totally failing, nothing but a halfwarm excuse of the one, who insulted the community by an arrogant devblog, other responsibles don't even show up.
the long list of failures (unrealistic prices, betrayal, arrogance etc.) with the last update negates the positve aspects (like shiny new turret models), this cries for protest, ongoing protest. each truce is just a buying time of ccp and you diligently offer yourself to do the job.
what will come is that you won't be heard, one week of protest will be lost, ccp will lower the prices of their goddamn nexstore, both sides - csm and ccp - will claim this as a victory, but the core of evil, which is destroying eve, the open and brutal capitalistic change of eve and the misuse of the users as "cash cows" will continue. You will be betrayed, because you will be unable to reasons, you will just be asked to the symptoms.
And this is why my voice has not been heard!
|
Heathyy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:58:00 -
[165]
I find it peculiar that they've chosen to focus more on cosmetics recently than anything else, I read the patch notes now and then and see various fixes here and there. although there are gripping issues that just never seem to get looked at. WIS is an interesting (overdue for most) change but they've basically spent all that time and ended up replacing ship spinning with character spinning (or just background picture.) instead of actually improving what is already there. P2W probably would destroy eve, combined with RMT your looking at a potential CF indeed.
the balancing act of keeping a large community happy while also keeping a lucrative business isn't something I ever hope to have to tackle. but you could probably start with focusing more on the actual game play than cosmetics (which I'm sure more ppl actually care to see coupled with having an actual impact on the game itself) and the chance at potential game breaking P2W schemes. I can't really tell if everyone is annoyed at the NEX or if it really is what I've just said. lots of games use MT, so long as it stays within the boundaries of fair play I have no qualms with it personally. when it comes down to it someone rich enough IRL is going to be able to get whatever they want via multiple legitimate Plex purchases and sales in game anyway.
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:10:00 -
[166]
One more comment in this thread.
I've seen a couple posts referring to metaphors of politics, and some of those metaphors have been used during these protests, pitchforks, etc. We however are not exactly the peasants. We are the kings. We have the money. Keep it in mind when you visit.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
|
Leeya Sater
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:13:00 -
[167]
I just want my Sanctums and Havens back in 0.0. I pay my three subs by the year and so letting me have an isk fountain just means I have more fun in the game cause I can do more...buy more.. and of course, lose more :) By increasing the isk in my wallet you aren't letting me play for free either. The real deal though is that I'm a middle ages adult that does not have the free time of youth to spend 6-12 hours a day on Eve...I need to be able to do something meaningful in at best a few hours. Run 2-3 sanctums and call it a night...in a week and a half I get a new capital component BPO...I'm happy. Now I have to go back to empire (ugh)...can't shoot anyone if I want (ugh) or more likely try to get away from reds (terrifying but exciting too)...bleah game is no longer fun. So I have canceled two of my three accounts with the third soon to follow. CCP didn't listen to us on the forums so now I am voting with my $$...that's $400/year down the tubes due to CCP's idiocy...can you hear me now?
I hope CCP does save Eve...it is by far and above the best game and I'll pay for the best...but not for this crap. Stop trying to force PvP on everyone and embrace the diversity that is Eve. You need more $$ in your corp wallet CCP? Make everyone pay for their subs...or at least the first few...
Good Luck!
|
Uluen
Gallente The Night Crew
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:15:00 -
[168]
Well said, White Tree. Thank you for providing hope when all that has been seen is impending doom.
Please save EVE. This is such an amazing game.
Be strong and stand up for what is right!
|
Biff Rodgers
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:16:00 -
[169]
I've only been on Eve for 3 years. Alot of investment put into it. What concerns me with the way CCP treat their players is that the silent majority who never fill in surveys, never say peep, vote with their feet and don't renew their subs. CCP need to think about the bread and butter sub players that pay their bills else CCP run the risk of other business that forget their customers.
|
Dreya Renthold
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:21:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03 @ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you. @ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm. @ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.
Now on to my bit.
I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.
1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible." 2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub. 3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.
Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.
When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY. When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser? So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you? I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.
Wow. Good words. |
|
Anna Maziarczyk
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:23:00 -
[171]
fair enough
|
Tarpedo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:23:00 -
[172]
If CCP need money to pay off their debt and develop DUST12345 - fine - let them create RMT shop with insane prices. But EVERY item in NeX shop MUST be avaialble via standard game interactions (rare drop from NPCs, costly fraction LP reward, craft, etc.)
Best of luck!
|
Dreya Renthold
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:35:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Optional Patch Edited by: Optional Patch on 28/06/2011 04:22:10
Quote: ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!
Well... without the typo obviously :)
Theres just one problem with this. (Warning: RP) When you are in your pod you are naked. When you get out of your pod you are naked. You must first shower and put on said clothing before the loading screen finishs. To launch your ship you must strip down, hook up to your pod, have the pod be put in your ship, and launch. Your not wearing anything when your pod goes boom. |
Troy LS
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:35:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Troy LS on 28/06/2011 05:37:29 Hilmer owes us an apology. His attitude toward this cash cow has been made more than clear by his posts and by the leaked documents. His most recent statement was not conciliatory nor apologetic. Frankly, when a company, any company, shows such disdain for me as a customer, they've lost a customer.
Its clear that CCP has some money problems. Its also clear that the community can be a resource to help solve the problems that were caused by the managements shortsightedness and ineptitude; some of the suggestions presented here are promising. I hope CCP and CSM can work together to save the game.
BUT, for me, more important than RMT (which is very important) and CQ (which is not), Hilmer owes me (and the community I think - I can only speak for myself), a heart-felt and sincere apology. Only then will I consider re-subbing. Oh yes, also not MT for strategic advantage (the final condition for re-activation of my subscription).
Edit: Good post, btw. Its encouraging to see folks like you (and Akita) take a genuine interest in saving a great game. Good luck in Iceland.
|
Warstomp
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:38:00 -
[175]
Tell them we demand actual content not cheap poor expansions. We want quality content back to EVE down with Dust Up with EVE down with WOD up with EVE...no MICROTRANSACTIONS AT ALL NONE! Add actual content to this game please not gimmicky expansions...
|
Kiran
Minmatar Knights of Azrael
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:44:00 -
[176]
Good luck with the meeting I truely hope they listen. I love Eve been playing since release on and off with breaks. ( You need them ). Would be sad to see this mmo die like SWG did.
Oh by the way while your at it can you ask them for a big mac and fries please? Not left my pc since this all started hummm also a chair bath may go some way its been over 30 degrees here damn it.
|
Syna Atruin
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:46:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Dreya Renthold
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03 @ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you. @ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm. @ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.
Now on to my bit.
I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.
1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible." 2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub. 3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.
Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.
When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY. When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser? So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you? I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.
Wow. Good words.
^^This. |
Reptail
Caldari SPACE LIGHT EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:48:00 -
[178]
They will kidnap you to force-stop player rage. o8h ertg dgd gdghrdfs |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:52:00 -
[179]
I would bet all I own in EVE that if it doesn't go well in Iceland, there will be some MASSIVE holes in null sec.
|
Anna Maziarczyk
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:57:00 -
[180]
I agree with what a lot of people are saying.
Its not JUST about MT Non-Vanity. Although that is a CORE issue and at the forefront of it all.
Where is Development for EVE?
Will they acknowledge their neglect of Development on EVE and present a plan for getting things back on track.
Its painfully obvious EVE has been abandoned for work on Twilight Online and Dust. This needs to be addressed.
2. Optional Content v. Shoved down our throat or shown the door. Many of the various Media articles point out a common theme among EVE controversial expansions - CCP forces them down our throats. While i understand the intricacy of it, i don't think its appropriate at this point.
SPACEFLIGHT <----> DOCKED <------> CQ
or die.
3. With so little resource being spent on EVE GAMEPLAY, do we really need so much fluff? i.e. Chess Boxing, MSNBC type coverage of iceland man ego, etc etc. The Playerbase, and GAMEPAY should be Priority #1. Get those right and THEN do fluff, not the opposite.
|
|
52 MonocIes
52 Monocles
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:05:00 -
[181]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads.
They failed to listen, so we yelled. They failed to listen again, so we primed our guns and pulled our cashflows back. Now they listen. We count on you to deliver to them our voice.
I'm pretty confident that you and other CSM members understand the core problems. I'm just afraid about the one that isn't voiced often enough. Data follows:
1. Developers of LOTRO have a habit of introducing in game (gameplay and interface) obstacles, and then charging players for the ability to remove them. In a free to play game. Looks sad, but understandable in f2p.
2. CCP moved our fittings database to the server and limited the amount to 50, without leaving the option to keep our fittings locally without limits. In 'Fearless' Soundwave speaks about selling more space on the server for them. Looks like the same pattern as in LOTRO, but in a subscription based game.
3. Many players have no problems with buying server space, as long as they also have the option to keep fittings locally without importing/exporting (very non-ergonomic) /mailing them to themselves or similar work-arounds. (check one of many threads about the issue).
4. Will you address the practice of introducing in-game obstacles intentionally?
5. Will you address the above indicated case and can you pressure them to get removed functionality (infinite local storage) back?
Thank you for your time.
-- I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Threadnaughts on fire off the shoulder of Orion... |
Captain Mung
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:10:00 -
[182]
When the CSM meets with CCP, they need to point them to this thread and make sure they actually pay attention.: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538210
|
San Severina
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:13:00 -
[183]
Blah blah blah blah.
Enjoy your free trip to iceland fanboi!
Just remember it was the players who paid for it. a lot of those players are gone already & by the time the CSM gets through with it's PR exercise a lot more will be gone.
Subs are running out everywhere & valuable players are leaving & we get puff pieces from CSM ****ers telling us how great this cr4p company is & how nobody is to blame yadda yadda yadda.
Whatever dude.
DOOR
|
Cham Palaung
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:24:00 -
[184]
And what guarantees us that you will indeed represent our concerns ? You have not listed precisely which points you would defend. Why should we trust the CSM more than CCP now ? Anyway, there will have to be an unambiguous answer earlier or later, be it in words or facts. My subscription remains cancelled until then, because i hate to be handled like an idiot with silence, or hypocrite empty answers.
|
TheGunslinger42
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:26:00 -
[185]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
who the bloody hell talks like that?
|
Pavel Bidermann
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:27:00 -
[186]
I want to hope, but there is little left. CCP has botched this "update" beyond belief. However, they have also ruined a community. If it ever comes together again, it will be incomplete. The community is now fighting with itself as well as CCP. I know the CSM will try to get something good out of this, but there is little to hope for there either. Deep down I suspect that CCP is just going to try to get you to say "It's going to be great!". I don't think they have any intentions of doing anything else. The recent events with useless patches, poorly designed software, REALLY bad PR, and no indication of having the ability to even respond to questions has been quite educational. I don't believe CCP has the ability to solve problems since they can't figure out what they are even when they are held up in front of their faces. I am greatful for your optimism but it is probably misplaced. Still, I hope.
|
BabyEating Dingo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:28:00 -
[187]
This just goes to show how useless the CSM is. Enjoy your free vacation, *******.
|
Mister Poopypants
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:31:00 -
[188]
It's not what they say, it's what they do.
|
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:35:00 -
[189]
CCP is already well aware of the concerns and desires of the EVE community. CCP is completely informed of what is causing the anger in the community. WeÆve been crystal clear. It doesnÆt take a trip by the CSM to Iceland to make it any clearer and it does not take consultation with the CSM to remedy the problems. If CCP wanted to ease the anger of the community they could easily do so without the CSM. If they wanted to get input from the CSM, they could easily do that long distance by voice and audio.
The CSM is going to Iceland to be convinced by CCP that they should support CCPÆs desires and ômanage the playerÆs expectationsö. ThatÆs CCPÆs view. I believe the CSM has a somewhat different view, but they should be prepared for CCPÆs.
IÆve played this game for five years and I have patience, but my patience is coming to an end. If I donÆt hear something good during or, at the very least, immediately after this meeting in Iceland, I will be goneààà..and others with me. Gone, not in rage, but quietly leaving something that wonÆt be working for us anymore.
I wish you luck in Iceland and would urge you to accept fewer free drinks and chummy conversation this time. Do not let yourselves be used to ômanage player expectationsö.
-Windjammer
|
Cean
Caldari Hihhulit The Polaris Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:35:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Dreya Renthold
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.
Originally by: Kelly Alleron Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03 @ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you. @ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm. @ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.
Now on to my bit.
I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.
1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible." 2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub. 3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.
Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.
When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY. When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser? So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you? I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.
Wow. Good words.
This.
I am currently thinking about Blizzard being better host. They atleast had balls to **** on my face and not hide stuff or **** on my back like CCP now... Should I laugh or cry?
|
|
ViperLok
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:42:00 -
[191]
I'm Sure that this is exactly what CCP was trying to slip past us. I WONT PAY MORE TO Save this game. CCP Never gives back ships lost because we forgot to turn on our hardeners. A mistake is a mistake.
|
Silas Cooper
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:43:00 -
[192]
Per Hilmar's email; words mean nothing, only actions. My accounts stay unrenewed (first one to run out in 8 days) until the CSM meeting is over and the result is both positive as set in stone. Until then we can't do much other than keeping the "pressure" on, showing that we haven't run out of steam just yet.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 06:54:00 -
[193]
Will they do non vanity MTs.
What is their financial status. Should we be worried.
Have they actually read and understood the threads on this forum. Has mister CEO see what they do read the threads.
|
Pickaxe Mike
Psykotic Meat C0NVICTED
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:06:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk Edited by: Anna Maziarczyk on 28/06/2011 06:09:29 Its painfully obvious EVE has been abandoned for work on Twilight Online and Dust. This needs to be addressed.
This is my take on the problem and why I've unsubscribed my accounts.
EVE's future is bleak because game design decisions are being driven by Dust and WOD. The last couple of expansions really crystalized the problem for me. EVE has just become a cash cow and testing ground for CCP's other games. Honestly, if Dust didn't exist, would CCP have thrown planetary interaction into EVE? If CQ didn't share code with WOD, would they have grafted CQ onto a spaceship game?
Everyone knows what needs to be fixed in EVE: ship balancing, making PVE more interactive, incentives for lowsec, and so on. CCP isn't attaching resources to these problems because the fixes won't help their other games.
I hope the CSM can impress on CCP that EVE has been seriously neglected. I also hope that CCP can do great things in the future. As it stands CCP is not making a game I want to buy.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:08:00 -
[195]
Having second thoughts for deciding to make this thread yet, White Tree?
You know nothing short of Hilmar shooting himself in the head on a live stream will appease these animals.
Is it any wonder CCP ignores them completely? As you will too, shortly.
They are setting themselves up for a self fulfilling prophesy by destroying any chance of communication and then blaming CCP for it.
Tools!
Get out of my EVE!
Mr Epeen
|
Dr Hsu
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:12:00 -
[196]
CCP needs to own that their continued neglect of EVE resulted in the conditions for a firestorm. They have no good-will left. This WILL happen again if they don't maintain the core game.
The specter of Pay to Win made me ready to give up on EVE. The idea of paying twice for a game that isn't even getting 1x payment worth of development made me go nuclear.
2014 the soonest for T3 frigs? Sry nop. CCP gets good money from EVE subscriptions, they need to apply it to their game. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
I get that they have other games to develop, but they need to get that they have a commitment to a subscription based game, a commitment that they ignore at their own peril. |
Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:15:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Obviously Confidential
The CSM will handle this with CCP, I have confidence in both.
I'll trust you completly until you betray me.
CCP has lost my faith, let the CSM rebuild it.
But I keeping my accounts unsubbed But I am not remaining silent on the forums And If my ship happens to circle amarr statues and shooting them these past few days. I find it relaxing...(plus I got some really good hits) ------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
|
IVeige
Caldari IVever.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:16:00 -
[198]
The question was simple, we asked for a simple answer. If you dont come back with that simple answer..you will have failed us.
Here is your chance to prove us that you can make a difference, that you can be there for us....dont miss it or those torchs that you carry from us to ccp, will burn you as well
|
Baillif
AQUILA INC
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:17:00 -
[199]
Let the CSM take their crack at CCP and see what happens. It's hard to stay mad for long periods of time so it's best to just chill out (for now) and save all our ****storm riot energy in case it becomes necessary.
In the meantime take some Valiums and think happy thoughts.
Like ponies
|
Markus Jome
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:18:00 -
[200]
White Tree, your words are respectable. But the patience is gone. Whatever change in behaviour CCP wants from us, it won't come before thursday.
|
|
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:20:00 -
[201]
Honest guys, I wish you the best of luck but please don't come back with a 2 week NDA and then bad news.
|
Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar Rebirth.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:42:00 -
[202]
Let there be no pause let there be no quarter, mercy is reserved for people of honor. CCP through it's actions and leaks have shown they have no honor, their word has as much worth as the gum under our boot. Let the subscriptions continue to drop in protest, keep CCP's feet to the fire if and only if a majority of the communities issues are resolved should we pull back from the brink. Do not listen to this UNCLE TOM of a CSM representative, a placater an apologist. A representative who writes to us like he doesn't have the balls to the use the leverage given to the CSM by the community to change CCP and improve EVE. Strikes don't work if you back off during negotiations. ------------------------------------------------- "Vae Victis" -Brennus |
Pearljammer 5657
Caldari Last Exit.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:42:00 -
[203]
This is why I love Eve, as a communtiy we have come together to protect the game we love. I am so damn proud of all the protesters. I want to feel optimistic and believe the tide has turned and CCP is ready to fix the mistakes and answer the questions.
CSM you must be strong, and aggressive. You know what we want and now its time for you to take your place in Eve history. Will it be hero or enemy, I dont know.
Make CQ optional Bring back the old hanger Vanity items only in Nex Store
Next expansion has to be huge, dont say sorry, make a pvp expansion in the winter CCP.
|
Inara 5
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:45:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Kaltor e'Daw I applaud the optimism, but the only thing that will ever appease the vast majority of those who have indeed banded together is a complete reversal of the proposed RMT.
I don't believe anything else will be effective.
(Disclaimer: I know that you and most of the posters get this. This is for the person skimming through the thread going 'WTF?')
The problem is that even the Russian and Chinese macro miners are at least putting some effort into things. They then go and sell their minerals or whatever for real money, so that the buyer can get the ISK. Supposedly, including according to CCP, this "destroys the EVE economy" and is therefore bad. Then CCP turns around and does it.
PLEX is something where a person gives CCP x dollars, and gets y ISK out of it. Those ISK were produced in the economy. Someone had to raise those ISK somehow. (Ignoring the people just playing swing trading on the PLEX market.) CCP has to find some way to reduce the amount of ISK in the game, and reduce the stockpile of PLEXes. The first is for the good of the game. The second is so they can make their corporate balance sheet better for investors. AUR is a good way to do it, but if they start selling game-changing things, then they are doing the same thing the Chinese and Russian botters are doing. (No, PLEX is different because it creates nothing. Someone made the ISK in game.)
AUR for vanity items makes a lot of sense. Implement it, and if people want to buy the stuff, then they can either buy PLEX and convert it, or buy GTCs, convert them into PLEX, and then convert it. CCP wins in either case here. In the first, the total number of PLEX out there is reduced. In the latter, they sold another GTC with no real impact on the economy.
Unfortunately, the issue here is that pay-to-win scenario. If people are paying $68 for monocles, let them. I think they're stupid, but it's their money, and ultimately I (and CCP and the rest of EVE) benefit from it. On the other hand, if someone can pay $68 to buy soverignty in a system or something, then they just broke the game. Horribly.
All that people are really wanting is for CCP to say "No, we are never going to have any kind of micro (or macro) transaction which provides a player with in-game advantages because they forked over cash." Unfortunately, because CCP has danced around this and blown a lot of the community's trust, even if they said that it probably wouldn't be believed.
Before this incident, I quit several MMOs including Star Trek Online because, as in the case of STO, they were selling major 'play-to-win' items. That makes what I accomplish in the game not matter, because someone can go sell a few crack rocks and buy a Titan (extreme example).
In short: Vanity items? Who gives a damn. Game-changing items? Big problem.
The issue here is that CCP cannot actually assure us that they won't implement the latter, which is why there's so much rage and gnashing of teeth. Even if they do, they've trashed their own credibility, and nothing short of a massive writeup is going to ever even start to repair that.
Instead, we get the comment about no "gold ammo," and then no clarification. This indicates to me that the writer was told to STFU.
The other issues, like walking-in-stations, is also a big who cares as long as it can be turned off, and they fix however they screwed up the graphics code. (ATI cards are running pretty hot, but I can run CQ on my nVidia _laptop_, which makes me wonder how this got screwed up.)Now, if they do that and then they add other content, like multiplayer aspect to WiS and more than one room, then it actually enhances the environment. Now you can hang out in a bar with your pirate buddies screaming 'Yarrr!' and talking about plans. Frankly, I think CCP can actually pull that off.
|
Dr Hsu
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:59:00 -
[205]
I wouldn't even mind paying like $15 for an expansion if there was legally binding language that stipulated that 100% of that $15 was ear-marked for EVE R&D. No stealing it for WoD or Dust.
Make the expansion stuff unlock for everyone that didn't buy the expansion after like 1-2 months. i.e. if Tier 4 battleships were in the expansion, then only people who ordered the expansion would be able to pilot them until such time as they unlocked for everyone.
Offer the winter expansion up for pre-order before this loan re-financing business comes to pass to hopefully give CCP some good numbers to get monies with. |
Mikal Morataya
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:01:00 -
[206]
Good luck White Tree. Like others I am skeptical as CCP could just say 'No game changing items will be added for MT, vanity items only'. They have not. So there is a good chance CCP will just be trying to persuade you guys why MT for win is not evil. :(
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:02:00 -
[207]
How many monocles and designer jeans did CCP promise you to say that White Tree? Pathetic.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:03:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Dr Hsu I wouldn't even mind paying like $15 for an expansion if there was legally binding language that stipulated that 100% of that $15 was ear-marked for EVE R&D. No stealing it for WoD or Dust.
Make the expansion stuff unlock for everyone that didn't buy the expansion after like 1-2 months. i.e. if Tier 4 battleships were in the expansion, then only people who ordered the expansion would be able to pilot them until such time as they unlocked for everyone.
Offer the winter expansion up for pre-order before this loan re-financing business comes to pass to hopefully give CCP some good numbers to get monies with.
I'm sure they will have have their legal dept. get to work on this as soon as your post is brought to their attention.
Because you're really important.
|
San Severina
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:05:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Inara 5
Originally by: Kaltor e'Daw I applaud the optimism, but the only thing that will ever appease the vast majority of those who have indeed banded together is a complete reversal of the proposed RMT.
I don't believe anything else will be effective.
(Disclaimer: I know that you and most of the posters get this. This is for the person skimming through the thread going 'WTF?')
The problem is that even the Russian and Chinese macro miners are at least putting some effort into things. They then go and sell their minerals or whatever for real money, so that the buyer can get the ISK. Supposedly, including according to CCP, this "destroys the EVE economy" and is therefore bad. Then CCP turns around and does it.
PLEX is something where a person gives CCP x dollars, and gets y ISK out of it. Those ISK were produced in the economy. Someone had to raise those ISK somehow. (Ignoring the people just playing swing trading on the PLEX market.) CCP has to find some way to reduce the amount of ISK in the game, and reduce the stockpile of PLEXes. The first is for the good of the game. The second is so they can make their corporate balance sheet better for investors. AUR is a good way to do it, but if they start selling game-changing things, then they are doing the same thing the Chinese and Russian botters are doing. (No, PLEX is different because it creates nothing. Someone made the ISK in game.)
AUR for vanity items makes a lot of sense. Implement it, and if people want to buy the stuff, then they can either buy PLEX and convert it, or buy GTCs, convert them into PLEX, and then convert it. CCP wins in either case here. In the first, the total number of PLEX out there is reduced. In the latter, they sold another GTC with no real impact on the economy.
Unfortunately, the issue here is that pay-to-win scenario. If people are paying $68 for monocles, let them. I think they're stupid, but it's their money, and ultimately I (and CCP and the rest of EVE) benefit from it. On the other hand, if someone can pay $68 to buy soverignty in a system or something, then they just broke the game. Horribly.
All that people are really wanting is for CCP to say "No, we are never going to have any kind of micro (or macro) transaction which provides a player with in-game advantages because they forked over cash." Unfortunately, because CCP has danced around this and blown a lot of the community's trust, even if they said that it probably wouldn't be believed.
Before this incident, I quit several MMOs including Star Trek Online because, as in the case of STO, they were selling major 'play-to-win' items. That makes what I accomplish in the game not matter, because someone can go sell a few crack rocks and buy a Titan (extreme example).
In short: Vanity items? Who gives a damn. Game-changing items? Big problem.
The issue here is that CCP cannot actually assure us that they won't implement the latter, which is why there's so much rage and gnashing of teeth. Even if they do, they've trashed their own credibility, and nothing short of a massive writeup is going to ever even start to repair that.
Instead, we get the comment about no "gold ammo," and then no clarification. This indicates to me that the writer was told to STFU.
The other issues, like walking-in-stations, is also a big who cares as long as it can be turned off, and they fix however they screwed up the graphics code. (ATI cards are running pretty hot, but I can run CQ on my nVidia _laptop_, which makes me wonder how this got screwed up.)Now, if they do that and then they add other content, like multiplayer aspect to WiS and more than one room, then it actually enhances the environment. Now you can hang out in a bar with your pirate buddies screaming 'Yarrr!' and talking about plans. Frankly, I think CCP can actually pull that off.
CCP Alt detected ^^ I struggled through that mind bending-ly stupid post just to make sure.
|
Johannes Alexodia
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:08:00 -
[210]
I see insults from both sides. What is the point of CCP trying to open a dialog if your going to not give the CSM a chance. CCP can bite me for their stupid letter and if they cant get rid of hilmar damn im gonna be ****ed. However... A pragmatist is a realist. We ranted and raved about no dialog. CCP is calling the CSM possibly to browbeat them or to actually negotiate. We must give the CSM a chance to do what we elected them to do.
If we don't were doing exactly what CCP did to us. I say give CSM a chance. They fail we do to them what we do to CCP. Simple. ------------------ Warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Doing so will result in the release of Aur to purchase p2w devices. That is all! |
|
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:11:00 -
[211]
Originally by: White Tree .... Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
Ta, thanks for the post, White Tree. I appreciate your concerns and agree that the ragefest has a real possibility of damaging CCP beyond repair.
However, I should point out one or two things: The current give-us-your-money fiasco is the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many issues to so many people that have been ignored for so long that have been simmering in the background that have been catalysed by this drama. This current rage and the apparent breach of trust that caused it will not be solved by CCP simply agreeing to drop beyond-vanity MT items. CCP really does need a new direction to repair the trust with its customers. Because that's what we are (or were).
It really is a case of what you do and not what you say.
Good luck. --------------------- Unsubbed. |
Angie Mactavish
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:13:00 -
[212]
Dear CCP
We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.
If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: [email protected]
Thank you and have a nice day
|
Ein Phantom
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:13:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Angie Mactavish Dear CCP
We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.
If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: [email protected]
Thank you and have a nice day
|
Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:15:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 28/06/2011 08:15:16
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
An understandable position. Probably very reasonable as well.
However I have a slightly different one: Nothing has changed yet. So why should our reaction change?
Sure, they said the problem will be addressed, but how many times did we hear that? Didn't Zulu "address" this problem with his $1000 pants devblog? Didn't he "address" it again with his 100% more love devblog? Wasn't CCP Pann here to "address" it before that? Hasn't CCP Fallout "addressed" the players' concerns for delaying this matter (by telling them to wait)?
At some point "we will address this" is not good enough anymore. Especially when you hear it for the umpteenth time and look at all the unresolved problems that have been "addressed" in the past.
|
Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:20:00 -
[215]
To the op: This is a good post and I agree there is no further point in raging on at the moment. However I think many of us ARE worried that CCP is moving away from Eve as a main or even important project, if we can believe glassdoor, the leaked documents and previous events (18 months?) this certainly seems to indicate it. Now this doesn't mean that Eve itself instantly becomes bad, but if it were true it would mean that the game is essentially going to be milked at this point without any real development exclusively ment for Eve happening anymore. Which is something that is hard to take in for Eve fans. --- Drykor - AHARM |
Rex Liberium
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:26:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Drykor To the op: This is a good post and I agree there is no further point in raging on at the moment. However I think many of us ARE worried that CCP has moved away from Eve as a main or even important project, if we can believe glassdoor, the leaked documents and previous events (18 months?) this certainly seems to indicate it. Now this doesn't mean that Eve itself instantly becomes bad, but if it were true it would mean that the game is essentially going to be milked at this point without any real development exclusively ment for Eve happening anymore. Which is something that is hard to take in for Eve fans.
Just fixed that for you. Eve is used to bankroll WOD and DUST. Now they have this upcomming loan that is due and need money. CCP is between a rock (bank) and a hard place (playerbase). I like to see how they will get out of this one.
|
Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:29:00 -
[217]
Hope the CSM work something out, CCP should have been a bit more candid with the CSM guys last time they met and none of this would have happened, can¦t blame them though, seen VC demands kill companies before just for tax write off and cheap IP for their mates and acts of desperation and going against core beliefs were more than evident on the plunge to non existence.
Will Monocles become an a symbol of solidarity between players and CCP, a sign of faith in eve during this dangerous period?
Oh and good luck CSM, i just don¦t want to see eve destroyed as a sand box but more importantly i don¦t want CCP to fail.
...... continues overleaf. |
Henrica Gaufridus
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:32:00 -
[218]
Originally by: White Tree I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
I agree that we should not be viewing CCP as the enemy here. They've dropped the ball before, but never to this degree. I don't hate them, as they've given us THIS. They've nurtured this wonderful world that we all enjoy. Quite the contrary, I'm grateful to them. I think that's why I think a lot of us (myself included) were so initially upset over this. We all felt that the people we had come to trust and talk to us hadn't been completely truthful with us, and that's upsetting. I always trusted that they had our best interests at heart for numerous reasons. For one, happy customers are good customers. For two, a lot of the "old timers" have been here for a long time and know them to a degree (albeit through a game, though some personally). If I hated the devs and viewed them as the enemy, why would I, or any of us, be here (Russian Mafia and Chinese Isk Farmers excluded).
I agree that patience is needed. However, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're suggesting that we wait quietly until this meeting, I disagree. CCP needs to know that this isn't a brief snap of nerdrage that will subside quickly. This is a chunk of the player base that is REALLY upset over all of this, and they need to know we're going to stay upset if it's not resolved. I don't know any other way that we can get this across to them other than through the actions of protest.
And to CCP: Thank you for allowing us to be heard. A real bunch of jerks would've just turned CONCORD on every single protester firing on the statues and deleted every single protest thread. To be honest, that may have ended the protests rather quickly, or at least they would have been taken away from Eve. But you're not jerks, you're a bunch of nerds like us. I think we need to remember that, and I think an open and regular dialogue between the players and the devs might help restore that.
As for me: I'll continue to protest until some sort of resolution is reached to this whole scenario. Not because I want Eve to fail, but because I want to see Eve become MOAR AWESOME. I want WiS. I want more guns and ships. I want to wear booty shorts, a pink tube top, and high heels. I don't want a future of uncertainty, where I'm afraid that the next move is going to bring Eve down. I want to know what CCP's vision is for Eve in the future.
|
Velios
M. Corp -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:35:00 -
[219]
The 'Torch Of Outrage' needs to be the name of the doomsday on the Sansha's Titan when it comes out :)
|
Zammo Bahrut
Banana On A Plate
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:36:00 -
[220]
I await with baited breath.
I love eve, I love the marketeering, I love/hate the scammers, I love 'grinding' the missions, I love the pvp. I (used) to love the ship spinning...
I love the people of eve, It would be a damnable shame to see a game that I've enjoyed for so long take a wrong turn.
White Tree, you have my support and I truely hope that the right thing is done.
|
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:37:00 -
[221]
Thanks for your fighting. I can't be assed to get back in 0.0 with this madness going on. no pvp n eve for me. I wo't wanto my role of logistics pilot to become useful becuase of MT.
Fight the hard fight. If the game survives as we know it, and we meet at next years fanfest after the smoke clears, I'll buy you a drink white tree.
|
Kowaii Rabbit
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:45:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Angie Mactavish Dear CCP
We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.
If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: [email protected]
Thank you and have a nice day
This.
秋田市 EZY English 英会話スクール http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Muffin Smuggler
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:49:00 -
[223]
Originally by: White Tree our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears.
we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake.
without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say"
good luck with that, have a nice holiday. |
VC General
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:49:00 -
[224]
Why would we not "continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience"? Eve makes money. Period. If CCP blew the profits on "not Eve", that's their fault. I don't see the issue here. Put your other vaporware projects on the shelf if necessary, and come back to the money maker until you've amassed another fortune to blow on more vaporware.
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:50:00 -
[225]
ROLL OUT AS MANY MT OPTIONS AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
Without introducing Pay To Win.
Ship Decal Slots. $500 monocles $0.50 monocles $1000 jeans. $1 jeans
Why are you asking us? This isn't rocket science.
|
Najian
Noctiscion
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:53:00 -
[226]
Just make sure the 0.5$ monocles actually look better than the current ones.
Checkmate trollocles.
|
Tore Vest
Gallente Vikinghall
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:57:00 -
[227]
Words.... From a TEST/Goons CSM have no value for me.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540246
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:59:00 -
[228]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 28/06/2011 09:05:31 Pause my ass.
CCP are supposed to be professionals. At least that's what they call themselves. Professionals don't make such mistakes. They also don't ignore the blatantly obvious and then proceed to ignore the people who point it out to them. Professionals don't do such glaring mistakes in gamedesign and they also don't release content that isn't even finished, repeatedly, over the course of several years. Professionals are sensible enough when it comes to things like MT and inform their customers beforehand and keep them in the loop about what's going on.
Professionals don't have to pull in PR-stunts like the CSM because... they are professional.
So... without being personal here... take your fancy drivel to those dumb enough to believe in it, cause I'm not buying it. Come back when you guys have the balls to state the facts instead of taking whatever **** CCP throw at you to garnish it with fanboy twinkles and pearls.
|
Irie Irie Irie
Caldari Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:00:00 -
[229]
Requesting the OP change the last word in the title of this thread to Ignored; which more accurately reflects the truth. ~~~
|
Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:02:00 -
[230]
Kudos for your patience, White Tree. I like your positive look on things. In your position, with CCP just planinly ignoring the CSM, I would have stepped down already and told CCP to go **** themselves, but you found the strength to carry on. Good job. Good luck with the meeting.
|
|
Griffolion
Gallente Dragon's Rage
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:06:00 -
[231]
Could someone please tell me what's gone on? It feels like the end of the world is happening.
|
Maa Ku
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:06:00 -
[232]
Good speech.
CCP is not our enemy and they must understand that all the rage and uproar is because we do not want to see a game we all play go down the pan.
I's because people care. If they didn't care, they'd just leave and go play another game.
|
Mater Dolorosa
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:09:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Mater Dolorosa on 28/06/2011 09:12:36
I could have been patient if your CCP good-fellows had given me back my hangar on Monday after the DT as a sign of good will...
I don't care if some CSM members did share a hug, a beer or a hooker with CCP Zulu and Hilmar years ago but I am concerned that for more than 18 months I've given money to CCP for Eve not to develop a PS3 game (I don't have a TV, even less a PS3) or a World of Teethnagers.
Put 25% of your WoD staff back on Eve for the next 6 months, give me back my hangar, fix blasters, fix hardware issues, correct ageless bugs, redraw that imicus hull, translate the game into French/Spanish/Portuguese/Japanese or whatever and I'll resub...
|
coolzero
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:10:00 -
[234]
i have no trust in CCP in even listing to the CSM..yeah you can talk to them all you want, but will they listen..doubt it.
|
Orithien Veladorn
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:11:00 -
[235]
Originally by: White Tree ... CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink...
You're absolutely right. May you and the other delegates find a way to make this CSM meeting productive, and find solutions to ensure both players' and CCP's welfare.
|
Vexion Daran
Gallente Templars of Space
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:12:00 -
[236]
Personally i am stressing out because of what is going on. I love this game too much. Been playing it almost every day since may 2005. The never ending post about "EVE is going to die!" i always looked at with a vengance. Now it is becomming almost a real option in this scenario.
Not sure if it is asked before or that it is already done, but can't the CSM setup a kind of CSM twitter so we can be kept up-to-date as the ifo comes in. We, playerbase, can respond quickly with opinions and questions to things that happen. you can take it back into the meeting and see if it's worth discussing.
just my 2 cents.
|
moneykeeper
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:14:00 -
[237]
The chance of the CSM convincing CCP to get rid of microtransactions is 0. At least you will get a free trip to Iceland, though, which is cool.
|
Zombatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:16:00 -
[238]
@ OP
A more competent post that those blogs by CCP.
Hope for the best! When you are back, you better speak the truth. Let us know, we can take the good with the bad.
Go EVE! ;)
|
Alarea Griffis
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:19:00 -
[239]
My first post ever here, I'll sum up the situation in a nutshell. 1) CQ has Absolutely Nothing to do with EVE! Nothing!!! It is Irrelevant Fluff that should be kept on its Own Server. I have several corp mates who are 2000 miles from home for the next several weeks with 2 4000$ laptops that cannot even log into skillflip because of the shader 3 incompetence.
2) Breach of thrust! The NDA or Non Disclosure Act. To everyone of my friends who play and introduced me to Eve 4 years ago it now represents Everything CCP Stands for: NDA or Never Deliver Anything act in regards to fixes and new EVE Content, Yes EVE content the game that drew us here to play and enjoy not extra CCP Fluff TM Non Eve related items.
3) The inability to realize that the players care about EVE online! The Space Economy PVP, PVE, Carebears , Industrialist, JOATs universe we all love and Enjoy. CQ is Nothing of the Above, it damages machines, prevents people from logging in and Enjoying EVE Online, It is Not Eve and has no part of being part of Eve's primary servers.
4) The Very important issue! Community and friends! That is what Eve is all about, We game with each other for Years in Eve and have developed great friendships through Eve and those will last Beyond Eve as well, the next 7 days will determine the fate of 50+ accounts from my circle of friends if steps are not taken to make sure we can all enjoy the game we love and care about, we have found several other options to stay together if CCP cannot be bothered to allow its Subscribed Paying Customers to play EVE ONLINE. CQ Serves no purpose and HAS NO PURPOSE on Eve's primary server.
We will be deciding what to do 48 hours after the CSM emergency meeting
We have been patient with CCP for YEARS. CCP is down to hours to display a real response and no a Blahblahblah statement that they'll improve within 2 years is No Longer Acceptable!
|
Nemesis Factor
Caldari Apolitical
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:23:00 -
[240]
I have cancelled my accounts to send a message.
However, I will stick around to see what comes of this and WILL resubscribe depending on the outcome. I love Eve, and if CCP shows an honest effort to revitalize it I will still be here. ==================== ~/~ Sultan of Buruni |
|
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:25:00 -
[241]
Great post White Tree. I thank all of the CSM for the work they will do at this summit and for putting RL on hold to attend on such short notice. I feel that something good for all parties will come out of this.
This post here sums up how I feel about this summit:
Originally by: Nuramori Edited by: Nuramori on 28/06/2011 03:55:59 Since you're headed there, I think the mindset should be less of negotiations, and more of braintrust, with the goal of working for a common good. CCP wants to be financially sound, and the user base wants CCP to be financially sound, or we lose the game. We lose development and improvement. CCP needs us, we need them. Mutual goals, mutual needs.
After all the words that have flown by, and all the actions that have taken place, the results of a working session that results in everyone being happy would be a fantastic PR move. It would SHOW the rest of the industry that there is no one side that needs to win, that it's a synergistic relationship that needs to be fostered.
~Gnosis~ |
Jaxom Asgard
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:27:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Jaxom Asgard on 28/06/2011 09:30:29 Edited by: Jaxom Asgard on 28/06/2011 09:27:34 Great advice White Tree. I wish people would just wait to see what comes of the Emergency CSM
Sadly the rabbit mob isnÆt going to take it, as they are so æoutragedÆ by CCPÆs actions and theyÆre having a lot of fun being self-important and causing a riot.
We do in fact have a lot of the answers to the burning questions, just not in a black and white one liner, and to be honest I donÆt think you will get that at the Emergency CSM meeting either. Of course there is another problem here too now, a lot of these people are stating that they do not trust or believe anything CCP or the CSM, say and it appears that they are not willing to listen or give anymore chances. If that is the case I guess they will be leaving permanently, if that will have an effect on CCPÆs bottom line, only CCP know. Personally I hope that people will take the time to calm down a bit, and give this meeting a chance.
The games industry is changing, and there has been rightly or wrongly a move towards MiroTransactions for a lot of reasons, (discussed and linked else where).
CCP like all companies has a business model, these models evolve and change, CCPÆs model now involves increasing the number of titles that it owns. They see this as the way forward to ensure the continued future of the company. Now if you agree with that or not, it is route that they have chosen to go, and itÆs not going to change now. It is naive to think that things will never change or evolve, (if they don't they will die out). What we might see are changes around the edges and ways to make it easier for the EVE community to swallow. (Indeed a lot of these are being developed, as per the exchange of new shinny gold Scorpion for a bog standard one)
What CCPÆs biggest issue as been here, (from my point of view), is communication, they havenÆt done it very well, they never have, they do however try to keep us informed, do you want them to have a big slimy PR Department that makes our skins craw with carefully worded politician statements?
|
AngryMax
Gallente Warriors tribe DarkSide.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:27:00 -
[243]
CCP has a track record of not giving a **** about their customers desires unless their bottom line is threatened. And thats to be expected from any modern corporation. They have their plans, and we are simply a means to an end.
Any talk about passion and heart that CCP employees have for the game is just empty wind pretending to be music. It doesn't matter. Its not that they messed up, its that for a while they haven't given a **** about what they promised years ago and now their hidden nature is simply expressing itself.
And since we are dealing in those cold, heartless realities there is little reason to invest any more time into EvE until there is real evidence that the game will stay what it was promised to be from the beginning. I guess it was naive and stupid to believe that values that were antagonous to EVE just few years ago would eventually be considered for implementation.
IMVU un space? P2W? To quote my favorite dark night Blade - "Mother****er are you out of your damn mind?"
I am just a drop in the ocean, but this drop will be spending his EVEnings playing other games for a while. Its actually a happy event all this. It exposed CCP and their mindset. Truth is bitter like good medicine.
|
Icecold Spacebeer
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:28:00 -
[244]
I¦m with you how you feel about the whole affair. But saying we would "hate CCP" is oversimplifying. The whole s***storm and the protests are a sign how disappointed we are with CCP. Judging on their actions, you could as well say that CCP hates its customer base and looks down on us.
As Yarrrrrhh stated here all this would have never happened if CCP had been honest and a lot of us would just buy their ship paintjobs and be happy about it.
CCP has the ball now and it all depends on them. Can their management stop acting like a c*c*ine snortin maniac with communication disorder an a serious loss of reality?
Both my accounts are cancelled right now (posting with the char that has some time on his plex left) and I see my sub fee as an investment into EVE and CCP (in the end its us who pays their salary). I¦m ready to resub at any moment, I even wouldn¦t mind doubling my sub fee or spending real cash for senseless funny stuff (paint jobs, engine trails, hot underwear for my female chars, posters of ponies in my CQ) if the company needs the money and explains it to us. But ATM I¦m not sure if they take us seriously and I don¦t see my money well-invested into them.
|
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:29:00 -
[245]
Tbh CSM, this is what I would like to see at the end of this:
- A reason to resub, ie eve staying the lovely sandbox we started out with (doubtful tbh seeing the CCP reactions so far) - Not just the final conclusion of the CSM meeting the coming days, but also the different iterations before CCP claims the CSM agreed. I would love to see the different stages CCP suggests and your starting points.
As people get older, they naturally get more bitter, but this is 95% CCP's doing.
I have no clue if I can ever trust CCP as a company again, nor will I be able to respect the CSM if they stay should this go all wrong (ie CCP just gets CSM over to PR stunt).
Ignore me
Drone Guide EON 21 & 22 |
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:29:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Zammo Bahrut I await with baited breath.
I love eve, I love the marketeering, I love/hate the scammers, I love 'grinding' the missions, I love the pvp. I (used) to love the ship spinning...
I love the people of eve, It would be a damnable shame to see a game that I've enjoyed for so long take a wrong turn.
White Tree, you have my support and I truely hope that the right thing is done.
Love it
|
I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:36:00 -
[247]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson Well, at least we know that one CSM member is completely useless and that this won't end well.
This CSM = Cindy Lou Who
CCP = The Grinch
You must remember though, Cindy Lou Who did win the Grinch over in the end.
|
Lug Thorne
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:38:00 -
[248]
A good post White Tree and a sensible attitude.
Tell them that next time there is a patch they'd better be there to answer questions afterwards, not go quiet for two days.
|
Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:41:00 -
[249]
Any CSM member I can actually pay attention to around/willing to post?
Not listening to a Testie. -----
Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Tragic smelting accidents.
|
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:42:00 -
[250]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Nice speech. I'm still watching what they do, not what they say.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
|
Blue Harrier
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:43:00 -
[251]
Good luck with your endeavours White Tree but IÆm sorry to say I think CCP are too far down the road to turn back now.
Over the last few patches there has been a steady ænerfÆ of ISK earnings in various parts of the game. This has reduced the æearning powerÆ of just about everyone but most of all the 0.0 corporations. Exactly as CCP planed, this reduction in earning power opens the door to corporation and alliance needing extra ægoodiesÆ to give then the competitive advantage over their foes in the game world.
As others have pointed out the CQ being forced on us has proved this beyond a doubt. We already had a æLeave ShipÆ option in the right click menus, how simple would it have been for the Devs to connect this to the CQ, but no, itÆs CQ or be æshown the doorÆ.
I thought the original idea of the æStore FrontÆ was a place where players could sell æbrandedÆ items made by themselves with minor upgrades to players, not a place for CCP to magic items out of thin air to give players an æI WinÆ button.
Whatever you do it will be a compromise and more for CCPÆs benefit than ours. I hope you will be æallowedÆ to report the full facts but having seen the so called Dev Blogs of the last week I think we had better get used to the æmushroom syndromeÆ i.e. kept in the dark and fed loads of brown stuff.
|
Alpine 69
Rubbish Superheroes
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:50:00 -
[252]
I do agree with White Tree here.
Don't mess this up, CCP. And the same goes for you CSM, there's a lot in your hands right now.
Will write and sing songs for stuff. |
Kristina Vanszar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:52:00 -
[253]
The EVE Community, making our game worth playing since '03!
Good luck guys, save eve, sve us, save CCP. I'm lucky, that i was able to do my 0.02 ISK for this!
|
LionWilby
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:53:00 -
[254]
Really well said.
(I really wish that CSM were more utilized. I think there's tremendous value to be found in them)
I also think it'd be cool to have a hybrid between CSM and developer or mostly just see the CSM role get a more hands on or involved voice into the future of Eve.
Essentially... their opinion matters well before crisis. Their voice matters well before crisis. It just took or takes (currently) crisis to listen (or value).
|
EL TITAN
Caldari Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:01:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. CCP doesn't need a CSM meeting to say "we will never allow cash purchases of items with any in-game effect". You have a job to do in convincing them to fix the item shop in general, but there is absolutely no reason that we should have to wait for a simple answer to our most important concern.
The longer CCP stays silent, the more it convinces us that this CSM meeting is nothing more than propaganda that will have no impact on the eventual decision to allow the purchase of in-game advantages.
This is a +1
I will not re sub until after we get word. And if we don't I won't |
Toramaline
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:02:00 -
[256]
Well Whitetree I wish you luck in your endeavours.
I myself have played EvE since 2004, I've introduced numerous people to eve as a game including my father and two brothers and we have all come recently to the same conclusion. The excitement of eve and the 'fun' of the game has seriously become second on the list of improvements in the CCP folder of game expansion.
We use eve for a lot more than just gaming, communication around the world with family and friends whilst having the fun of blowing them out of the space lanes or teaming up to do the same to a few russian bears if we can.
I really hope that you can get across to CCP that we the gamers love eve for it's stand alone game play and heart thumping, back aching adrenaline rush it creates when under pressure in immense fleet fights or stand alone pvp.
Lately this 'rush' has been on a low and game content has felt seriously flat, bugs from 6 years ago still exist and the excitement no longer feels as palpable. I still love eve as a game (and yes tried wow too) and for the moment will be hanging around to see just what happens.
A lot now rides on the results of your meeting with CCP both for me and for my family as we are all just a little discontented right now with something that we purposly pay for and set time aside to 'play'.
Tor
|
Samulus
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:05:00 -
[257]
Good luck White Tree, you have my vote. My only two-cents into the matter would be try getting CCP promises in writing.
Cheers (I'll drink a pint or two for you m8 ) Sam |
Chia Mulholland
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:11:00 -
[258]
I don't see CCP as our enemy. I know they love Eve. The problem, as I see it, is that they love their vision of Dust and WoD even more and are focusing their resources on those two games rather than on Eve.
And now they've invested so much time and money in those two new games that it's going to be very hard for them to shift focus back to Eve.
But I wish you and the rest of the CSM the best of luck in getting them to put more energy into Eve.
|
Joxxy
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:11:00 -
[259]
Hoping something good comes of this meeting.
At first I thought it was merley hearsay that CSMs were called to Iceland.
If nothing we have CCPs attention. Let us hope we come to an agreement regarding our outcry.
|
Elaine Solarheart
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:14:00 -
[260]
My honest opinion....... Nuke it from orbit..........just to be sure. |
|
Kristina Vanszar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:19:00 -
[261]
If this workes out well,
we will see a new player flood, becouse if CCP can get a to a compromiss with us, that would make news like "CCP listens to they're community, negotiations successfull" or "CCP Games gives they're players what they want"
If i see news like that on the internet, i'd try the game no matter what.
I hope this works out well for both sides.
|
Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:22:00 -
[262]
White Tree,
I'm sure you may have already seen this but some confirmation would be nice
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538210
There are over 16 pages of clean, rage-free constructive discussion and agreement and i think this is as good a place as any to start in addressing the issues with CCP and the community.
It's a shame to see Tobias's post - and i could not agree more with your opening statements. You have my full support at the meeting.
If there is anything you need in support of your trip please don't hesistate to ask.
|
Mia Wrasse
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:24:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Mia Wrasse on 28/06/2011 10:25:20 *Wastes time poncing around the captains quarters looking uselessly pretty, as she readies to pack her small station containers into her Omen to move out and onto other universes*
I am one of a group of friends holding a number of accounts between us. We are all waiting on the outcome of this meeting. Sad to see it come to this. But the feet will do the talking if this all goes any further downhill.
Mia
|
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:34:00 -
[264]
White Tree, I salute you.
o7
Also, I've been nagging all the other CSM members about getting all hairstyles and all clothes for all races. Can us gays who like to play dress-up get some love, please? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
|
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:43:00 -
[265]
I agree that we should wait and see what is decided and what CCP do (not say). I can't really say I am hopeful though. It is just so damn much. We have the whole :18 months: neglect of Eve that most of us were willing to ignore because we trusted CCP. That trust is gone. We have seen that they are ready to risk our trust and loyalty in the hope of milking us more (and that really didn't go well). They can do this because they are fearless and go on doing whatever they feel like.
I don't even want MT in the game any longer. We have seen where the prospect of selling vanity items already lead to, they are (behind our backs) discussing ways how they can sell us fitting slots and such crap. They were tempted and already fell for temptation before MT even was part of the game! If we have MT then it will stay and be expanded upon until the end of Eve days. Does anyone believe that if they release Dust, it is a huge success and they earn more money then ever, then they will suddenly stop with the MT in Eve? No, they will expand it even more and slowly work toward SP selling. If they say that no-vanity items never will happen, then we already know it means that they will not speak about it in public but find a way to introduce it step by step behind our backs.
I must confess that I would have easier to accept MT non-vanity items if they sold BPCs instead of items. Then the players gets involved and that is only good for Eve. As it is, Incarna is all about MT. If I leave my pod then I have left Eve and the world controlled by players and entered another game. It isn't Eve and right now I am forced out of Eve every time I dock.
Finally. Even if they find some magical solution to the current crisis that make many players resub (many will still never return), what can I say about Eve and CCP to other gamers that would make them join? "Eve used to be great and player controlled", "CCP used to be great before they decided that greed is good" or perhaps "They are not sorry for what they did, only that they got caught doing it". Seriously, I used to be proud about playing Eve and used CCP as an example of a company that was commitment to players and the world.
|
Mater Dolorosa
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:44:00 -
[266]
Why would we continue to invest in Eve Online when CCP have barely put money and ressources on it for the past 18 months and the small amount of work on it was only to implement "features" their customers didn't want ?
|
Borisk Zeltsh
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:45:00 -
[267]
people actualy belive a word of what a goon/test member say
wow im shocked
|
RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:46:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Mater Dolorosa Why would we continue to invest in Eve Online when CCP have barely put money and ressources on it for the past 18 months and the small amount of work on it was only to implement "features" their customers didn't want ?
I will say it again. If this is how they think of and treat the golden goose. How much worse will we be treated after they put their new games out?
Its not very promising for EvE.
|
Dr Lebroi
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:53:00 -
[269]
I think it's important to draw a line under events and for all parties (that is CCP, players and CSM) to commit to a fresh start but what I would also like the CSM to highlight is that this is not just a one off blip.
CCP have been moving toward this point in time with determination for a number of years. That process includes but is not limited to:- lack of bug fixing and balancing for known issues, dissapointing expansions lacking the content the players hoped for, removal of financial resources and staff resources from Eve to feed other projects when Eve players pay their money for Eve NOT for vampires or FPS (will all content in WoD and Dust be free for Eve players because we've already paid for it?) and a seeming disassociation from the playerbase with an unwillingness to answer difficult questions and hard information replaced with spin and PR.
At the end of the day, the game is built on code and code can be re-written, business plans are built on ideas and ideas can be revised but in order for this to happen there needs to be a genuine commitment within CCP for a change of direction.
I know the game is old and clanky but it is still a very beautiful thing with immersion and gameplay that cannot be found anywhere else. As players we do not require you to make it look 2011 and beyond because we like it as it, all we would like to see is the resources made available to fix the things that are wrong with it and we will continue paying you whatever you feel is fair to access the world you created. Eve can still grow as real players tire of the fluff games that are out there and eventually come looking for a real challenge. It will continue to be a solid financial performer for you as long as you don't break it. You have what so many companies would kill to have, a die hard group of loyalists customers that will use your product without requiring expensive changes to it but you are on the brink of losing all that. Have you really thought through what a bad move that might be?
As Joni said, 'Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot.'
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:53:00 -
[270]
Originally by: White Tree So, what do we do now?
We learn from the mistake. Realising a few things; a) CCP lies to players and won't apologize or address that, b) CSM is not the organization of transparacy we were promised.
Originally by: White Tree So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience.
CSM has no room to ask for anything, until we know that CCP actually give you guys some respect, and transparancy. Until then, CSM is as useless as CCP statements and patience (read: silence) is the worst thing we could do.
Until CCP has won back confidence, by somehow un-doing their lies, (and if CSM is going to be involved, make sure they actually do get the role they were put to do), the best thing we as players could do is to speak. Not with words on forums, but ingame. Jita protests is just one such thing. Not touching AUR another. Cancelling subscriptions another option.
That'd be a starters, it can and should escalate from that, if we keep getting nonsense replies, and a statement from CSM will mean nothing if we don't know we can trust CCP to begin with. -
|
|
Jones Bones
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:56:00 -
[271]
Eye patches. Ask them if there will be eye patches. Ignore the rest of these plebs who won't bother investing in their primary hobby.
|
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:05:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Jennifer Nardieu The extraordinary meeting is the final answer that all of us were seeking.
The reason its a meeting is not because of working out how to say "yes or no" to a "will there be P2W features" but rather a "How can we ease the transition across to a P2W business model while minimising the backlash from the community" meeting.
My judgement is already made to that end, I will continue to play EVE until I feel that it is no longer possible to participate further without investing additional money on top of my subscription in order to remain competitive.
Aaaaaand...This!
|
Hormus
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:06:00 -
[273]
Originally by: AnzacPaul Sorry White Tree but whilst I get your sentiment, you can't convince me for a second that a company is going to go against the advice of marketers, economists, "professionals in the field"; to listen to a bunch of quote "computer nerds".
Do you meet with the shareholders at all? I seen a list a couple of days ago that says Hilmar owns 2% of shares in CCP. Regardless of how much he loves Eve, he doesn't have a choice when the majority say "Eve needs to make more money".
I appreciate your attempt to calm the people though.
That's it. But I don't appreciate your attempt to calm the people. Our anger is our (and yours) only bargaining card.
|
Larissa Sunsorrow
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:12:00 -
[274]
We don't have CCP as an enemy. We just dislike the lack of communication and transparency. CCP knows that we aren't kids. We would understand if they told us that they're having financial problems, that they need money, that they need new ways to fund their new projects. We aren't a bunch of teenagers with $1000 pants, but yes, we can afford a bit more expensive monthly fee and all we want is to be heard.
good luck to all csm. and **** my grammar.
|
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:15:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Sylthi You really think you have the power to sway CCP from their plans to bail themselves out of their dreadful mismanagement with more of OUR money that they haven't earned?
More power to you. But, as for me, I say: PROVE IT.
MAKE THEM LISTEN. MAKE THEM GIVE US WHAT WE WANT. MAKE THEM SAY: "No Non-Vanity MT EVER."
Unless you can do that. NOW. With THIS meeting. You, and all the other CSMs that are now and ever will be are exactly what I have always said: Cheap CCP PR stunt. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Go. Go to Iceland. See what your corporate masters give you PERMISSION to say when you come back.
/out
This. This! THIS!!!!
To put it a bit more charitably: Proof or GTFO/STFU. But then, we'll be seeing that proof, one way or the other--um, eeermmm...well, soon, won't we.
|
Eclorc
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:24:00 -
[276]
While I can understand the desire to tread carefully, the fact of the matter is that there is strong evidence to support the suspicion that we players have been lied to, and are still being lied to (if only by omission).
We've gone from "No MT in Eve" to "Vanity-ONLY MT in Eve" to leaks that demonstrate CCP are at least considering non-vanity items for RL cash via Aurum. More hints of their path can be demonstrated through the removal and addition of content to trial product ideas, and prepare ground for further steps. No I cba to list them all but anyone that's followed this fiasco knows about them.
The total disregard for our worth shown in CCP's inability to answer a simple question "Will you be adding non-vanity items to the in-game store" hints very strongly indeed that we have been lied to once again. If that is the case, fine. Folks will know where they stand, and can move on with a sad face.
Personally I would prefer that the CSM took this stance:
"CCP must state unequivocally, for the players and world to see, that non-vanity items will NOT be added to the in-game store: if CCP does state this, then the CSM will talk with you about where to go from here. If CCP will not state this, then CCP will merely be confirming the previous lies and misdirections are planned to continue. We have been lied to and misled before, but no more."
An simple YES or NO answer should be given to the big yellow question, before any further negotiation takes place. Anything else is just confirming the worst fears of the community.
|
Narisa Bithon
Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:27:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 28/06/2011 11:36:25 Dear OP/CSM while your in your emergency meeting please discuss the serious balance issues as well as the current MT and performance issues.
try to get these issues prioritised sooner rather than later.
balancing issues deemed urgent:
1. Supercaps - fact they are simply too overpowered right now. - maybe introduce a capital warp disruptor that locks onto jump drive signatures only 2. Hybrids - fact they are woefully underpowered right now - (Rails in particular) 3. Pos's - these are too underpowered now we have so many capitals - possibly allow alliance pos gunning as a balance fix to this and a 50% powergrid and cpu buff to all pos towers. 4. Dreads - these are more or less made obsolete by supercarriers 5. Bots - while the NC bots may have been toppled we still have the DRF bots that still need to be dealt with. 6. Moons - seriously need better distribution to enable a fairer chance for everyone. 7. T1 Mining Barges need a slight buff to tank, may be each give 2 more mid slots & T2 Exumer's should just get a additional low slot. 8. ECCM needs a buff...ECM is too powerful vs ECCM at present
|
ExcalibursTemplar
Caldari Citadel Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:34:00 -
[278]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Right now im confussed the CSM have had very little to do with the protest but when i have seen CSM members (no names will be mentioned) since the last DEV blog. They've either said nothing about what we are doing and have just said tell them what they we want (usually linking to a post they have made). Or they have said continue with the protest so it gives them maximum clout when they get to Iceland to try and sort this mess out with CCP.
Can you please get your fellow CSM members to all come togethor and make a unified statement saying exactly what you want us protestors to do. About these protest CCP
Quote: Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
|
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:36:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Velvet Dream Edited by: Velvet Dream on 28/06/2011 02:59:03 Edited by: Velvet Dream on 28/06/2011 02:56:34Also, AUR items can be sold on contracts, so the USD->PLEX->ISK->AUR->ISK->whatever
It's apropos nothing else whatsoever, but rebutting your arguments has been done enough everywhere else, soooooo...
...You do realise you live on a planet, right? And that on this planet there exist countries other than America?
|
Gil Roland
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:36:00 -
[280]
Originally by: White Tree So, what do we do now?
Hey CSM, welcome to the party guys. Both you and CCP know exactly what this mess is all about. We can talk forever, but the only thing the rioters (and unsubscribed) wanna hear is: "CCP is not going to add *EVER* non-vanity items in microtransactions stores. CCP is not going to sell *EVER* any game advantage for real money".
Now, gotta say I'm a little bit worried that a guy like this is going to have a major role in current negotiations with CCP:
Originally by: The Mittani
this thread is gay and i don't give a **** what you think, p. much vOv
~toodles~
(source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536732&page=6#159 )
That said, this maybe 50 or 60 years old man acting like a child is not the only CSM member, so chance are that this mess can still be recovered. Of course is up to the other CSM members (like you, White Tree), and CCP guys to recover.
Also i think could be a good idea ask for unbanning of Helicity and the other guy (I'm sorry, can't remember the name) banned from CCP at the time of the leaked newsletter.
(On a side note, before someone start flaming on my english, gotta say english is not my primary language)
|
|
Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp. R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:38:00 -
[281]
So White Tree:
1- what are you (as CSM not just u) goin to ask to CCP?can you let us peons know? 2- what's the point behiond which you will stand up and leave the meeting? 3- once the meeting will be over, how long will it take for you (even better CCP) to let us have our answers? 4- ok this is your position, what about the other CSM guys? considering we'r "forced" to count on you, i guess we should really need to know what ALL of you guys think about the situation
I didn't vote for any of you (guess i'm not alone tbh), now i'm forced to depend of you, guess you can understand why i'm asking those questions
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:39:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Jones Bones Eye patches. Ask them if there will be eye patches. Ignore the rest of these plebs who won't bother investing in their primary hobby.
Only if there's a discount for those who are -10. -
|
Lexxxii
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:42:00 -
[283]
It is obviously vital that MTÆs for game advancing items should never be brought in, but the issue over CQ being mandatory and not having the old hanger with the option to disembark should not be forgotten and swept under the carpet by CCP.
At the very least, confirmation is needed that the option not to load station environments will not be removed.
|
Gillaboo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:43:00 -
[284]
White Tree:
Would the CSM care to publish a "rough draught" of the points it's going to specifically address during this emergency meeting?
I know, such things should seemingly be obvious at this point -- but let's make sure we're all on the same page.
I realize from your words that concerns "may diverge".... that's fair and reasonable... but I'd like to know how much they might (or might not) "diverge", which I can determine for myself if you offer up a quick list.
Thank you. ---------------------------------------------
"MONOCLE-FREE" and Proud Of It !!!!!
|
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:44:00 -
[285]
If you'd be so kind, please tell them that adding comets to wormholes would go a long ways towards restoring my faith in the company as a whole. Well... it would give me a warm and fuzzy.
Assurances that Eve will never go "pay to win" will do wonders.
FREE Helicity and Niang! |
Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:47:00 -
[286]
Good luck, CSM. I seriously doubt you will leave the meeting with anything other than a sore ass, but I suppose the attempt is at least warranted.
Remember that this is probably THE defining moment for the CSM. You can walk away as heroes or be cast forever as a worthless sham. No pressure!
And to reiterate what others have said: I strongly suggest the the proceedings be streamed live. That's the only way for there to be real transparency. If the meeting isn't public, I'm going to have a hard time believing it even occurred.
|
Raven God
Texas Inc. THE SPACE P0LICE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:53:00 -
[287]
You know, if they needed more money, all they had to do is tell us and raise the sub price by $5.
There wouldn't be even close to the amount of outrage that there is now
|
Lee Anderson
Eternal Profiteers
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:54:00 -
[288]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Jita to a halt? do you mean all the little kids from WoW that came to eve?, and got mad cuz they have to ask there parents for more money to get new items? for all the ppl who b!tch you need to leave eve sense us who enjoy it don't care or wanna hear it.
TO CCP: keep it the way it is and lets the kids whine, this game is for adults not whiners. ------------------------------------------ My site http://www.mygamerbook.com |
Rex Liberium
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:57:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Raven God You know, if they needed more money, all they had to do is tell us and raise the sub price by $5.
There wouldn't be even close to the amount of outrage that there is now
Dear EVE community we would like to raise sub-fees bij $5, because we are developing WOD and Dust at the exspense of the game you all love and play and need more monies, because our underpaid code-monkies arent typing fast enough.
|
Raneru
Euphoria Released
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:57:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
Remember that this is probably THE defining moment for the CSM. You can walk away as heroes or be cast forever as a worthless sham. No pressure!
Very true.
Its worth remembering that no matter how loud people shout, CCP won't remove aurum completely or CQ, but hopefully a compromise between CCPs vision and the communities needs can be reached.
|
|
Asgaurd
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:00:00 -
[291]
Well Said, And do us Proud White Tree. Life is Short, Space is Big, So the Moral of the Story is:
Go as Fast as you Bloody Can ;)
|
Piral
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:01:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Piral on 28/06/2011 12:01:49 FO0KIN BIG BUMP IN THE NIGHT! FROM IRELAND!
(NO)
p.s piral was here.. He Who Dares, Wins |
Jaxom Asgard
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:04:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Jaxom Asgard on 28/06/2011 12:04:50
Originally by: Xia Long I didn't vote for any of you (guess i'm not alone tbh), now i'm forced to depend of you, guess you can understand why i'm asking those questions
If you didn't vote, then you can't really complain about the representation you do or don't get, from those that were elected.
|
Pookie McPook
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:04:00 -
[294]
Slap me for it but I agree with White Tree's OP. Hopefully commonsense will eventually break out, both at CCP and on these forums. -----
Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:11:00 -
[295]
Good luck, CSM. [Petition] Make entry into CQ and Incarna optional. |
Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:12:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Lee Anderson
Jita to a halt? do you mean all the little kids from WoW that came to eve?, and got mad cuz they have to ask there parents for more money to get new items? for all the ppl who b!tch you need to leave eve sense us who enjoy it don't care or wanna hear it.
TO CCP: keep it the way it is and lets the kids whine, this game is for adults not whiners.
You don¦t get it do you... you probably never will...
eve as is with sub = game Eve with p2w added = not a game
Advise reading of Animal Farm and 1984
...... continues overleaf. |
Terrorform
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:14:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Narisa Bithon Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 28/06/2011 11:36:25 Dear OP/CSM while your in your emergency meeting please discuss the serious balance issues as well as the current MT and performance issues.
try to get these issues prioritised sooner rather than later.
balancing issues deemed urgent:
1. Supercaps - fact they are simply too overpowered right now. - maybe introduce a capital warp disruptor that locks onto jump drive signatures only 2. Hybrids - fact they are woefully underpowered right now - (Rails in particular) 3. Pos's - these are too underpowered now we have so many capitals - possibly allow alliance pos gunning as a balance fix to this and a 50% powergrid and cpu buff to all pos towers. 4. Dreads - these are more or less made obsolete by supercarriers 5. Bots - while the NC bots may have been toppled we still have the DRF bots that still need to be dealt with. 6. Moons - seriously need better distribution to enable a fairer chance for everyone. 7. T1 Mining Barges need a slight buff to tank, may be each give 2 more mid slots & T2 Exumer's should just get a additional low slot. 8. ECCM needs a buff...ECM is too powerful vs ECCM at present
+1
|
Amar Azaph
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:16:00 -
[298]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
You don't speak for me. No CSM's speak for me- I speak for me, you have no mandate from me. That said, I wish you luck in trying to placate the masses. Sent from a campfire using smoke signals. |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:20:00 -
[299]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 28/06/2011 12:25:16
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye Remember that this is probably THE defining moment for the CSM. You can walk away as heroes or be cast forever as a worthless sham.
Pfft. Defining moment was when CSM agreed to participate in this farce after CCP practically giving them the finger beforehand.
If you honestly believe this PR stunt is going to accomplish what the supposed professionals over at CCP should be able to do perfectly fine on their own, wake the f***k up. Never happened ever since this council of glorified fanboys existed, and this time around will be no different.
|
khac
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:25:00 -
[300]
Originally by: White Tree The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting
Good luck!
|
|
Lrd Spike
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:27:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Lee Anderson
Jita to a halt? do you mean all the little kids from WoW that came to eve?, and got mad cuz they have to ask there parents for more money to get new items? for all the ppl who b!tch you need to leave eve sense us who enjoy it don't care or wanna hear it.
TO CCP: keep it the way it is and lets the kids whine, this game is for adults not whiners.
You Sir, are an ignorant P!ick, go read up on what actually is/has occurred, you may not love this game and think its the dogs b!llox but i do and many many others feel the same way.
Noone who loves eve will listen to your troll like you think they would. GL!
|
Dnai Hsrang
Caldari Cardinal Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:28:00 -
[302]
Thank you for your passion and leadership in a very difficult time.
|
Ovella
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:30:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Lee Anderson
Jita to a halt? do you mean all the little kids from WoW that came to eve?, and got mad cuz they have to ask there parents for more money to get new items? for all the ppl who b!tch you need to leave eve sense us who enjoy it don't care or wanna hear it.
TO CCP: keep it the way it is and lets the kids whine, this game is for adults not whiners.
You don¦t get it do you... you probably never will...
But searching post history of people like this is rather entertaining |
Zen Sins
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:39:00 -
[304]
In my opinion, CCP's "dramatic pause" let's call it is based primarily on their own internal leaks. Everything else was going according to plan, including intentionally ignoring the voices of their players AND the CSM. Oh, and pretty much laughing about that last part too. (See leaked email by Hilgar.)
CCP's failure, in their own eyes, was simply one of internal security. Had one or more of their own employees not violated their contracts, along with trade secret laws, they could have managed the "player aggro" and slowly boiled the frog called "implementing enhancement performing items for AUR". The one-two punch of the leaked documents is where everything went wrong for them. It simply let their players see behind the curtain far too soon, and now the peasants are marching with pitchforks and torches...for now.
The thing about rage is that it's not sustainable, and CCP knows that. This whole thing will make their planned transition more painful in terms of more lost profits than necessary, but I do not believe it will change anything.
Tell me CSM, what's your plan for how CCP puts the genie back in the bottle and convinces the player base that CCP has ANY respect for their players' input, at all? For me, CCP's true opinion of that input is summarized with three words... "very predictable feedback". By the time you get there, their plan for how to "manage" the CSM will already be in place. You can count on that.
I will continue to play Eve, but my opinion of Hilgar and CCP's upper management went from "no opinion" to the kind of contempt one can only have for someone you know has zero respect for YOU. How ironic that this works for CCP just fine, as they'll continue to get the only kind of feedback from me they care about...my $$$.
|
Serpentine Dex
Minmatar The Apocalyptic Riders
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:41:00 -
[305]
Thank your for your post White Tree, i expect you to keep a hard stance on P2W MT and if this fails i also expect the entire CSM to retire/resign as the CSM will have proven to be pointless & a farce (and for your individual honors sake).
P2W would kill EVE, clearly.
|
Asmodeus Et'Mort
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:03:00 -
[306]
Whilst I agree with the CSM meeting, Tree you need to realise that the only bargaining chip you havee is the strength of our community, CCP are trying the oldset trick in the book, offer negotiations and hope for the furore dies down. Its one of the oldest tricks in business management, look at how strikes are dealt with by business leaders.
It feels like your falling for the whines on skype "dont they know how much damage they are causing," "they are damaging teh companies reputation," "confrontation helps nobody" These kind of statements are used all the time to defuse community action, look at the UK's Education Minsiter's statements about a teachers strike this week. The only people damaging CCP are those within CCP that are pursuing this course of action. I havent seen any word from the CEO at all despite his frankly insulting email. Viking Ancestors or weasel ones? Will Hilmar even be at the meeting or will he be too tired after his jolly to gateshead? I already know of one Eve player at that conference for work so feedback on what Hilmar says will be very interesting.
Keep up the pressure, Keep unsubbing, and when CCP actually do somthing visible to the community and not behind the closed doors of an NDA meeting, I will be there to resub and urgee others todo the same.
|
Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:05:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Kiwi Miner ... how do we trust anything said to us ??
Yep. CCP is going to have to address Tippia's musings: "The problem is the lie."
One of the issues in that article is that feedback is just useless. E.g., people/players trying to help by making bug reports on Singularity, and *far* too many of those bugs get promoted to Production. Leading to an attitude of: Why bother if it doesn't make a difference?
Regaining trust is far more difficult than maintaining it. CCP forgot they were in a trust relationship at all.
|
Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:17:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Liva Daril Imagine that, all just because of one missing "enter CQ" button on that old ship-spinning hangar.
Hear, hear!
And the statement that any 'opt out' option at all would only be temporary!
Forcing me to leave my ship is the purist, pettiest, form of tyranny.
|
Tom Peeping
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:28:00 -
[309]
I guess that depends...
Asking for patience while you sort out the issues... I can do that..
However it kinda seems like the "issue" is that CCP has been poorly managing their finances, and spent too much on developing too many other games simultaneously without other sources of funding, and now wants eve players to pay for those other games (above and beyond the usual amount profits from one game might be put towards development of a next generation)
The "problem" seems to be the CCP leaderships fiscal sense, and I simply don't know what CSM can possibly do about it. CCP clearly wants to milk more money from this cash cow, and there are limits.
Do you have a proposed solution that doesn't involve raised subscriptions or mictrotransactions? (or any form of milking us dry or ruining the game)
|
Psychlo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:35:00 -
[310]
An open statement to both the CSM and CCP:
White Tree posted a calm well thought out statement. There is a good point in letting calmer heads prevail. CCP is a business and in business, emotional decisions can be moments of poor judgement. I would however like to point a few things out.
1. Hey CCP. Remember us? Back when you were a small company trying to claw your way into the market? Remember the days when the company was small, and every account counted and the joy when we broke the 5,000 users on at once? We were there too.
2. Hey CCP. Remember when you were a one trick pony with just EVE? Struggling with complex code and bugs and game play problems to work though? We were there.
3. Hey CCP. Remember when you finally made it big time and the pride and joy? We were there too.
4. Hey CCP. Look at your own Financial statements (we have). See those millions? That came from US!
We the players have been with CCP from day one. There can be no CCP without us. We may *****, and complain, but ironically when you address our complaints your product gets better. After all these years we are like family.
But recent events crossed not one, but two lines.
The first line crossed was MT. (nothing more needs to be said here we all know the issues)
The second line was the disrespect to your player base. You turned your back on us. The CEO himself stated he would not listen to what we say. Hey CCP . . .did you know the best of friends make the worst of enemies?
So to the CSM (White Tree) I say this:
As ambassadors to the player community, understand that a failure at this meeting will be the last straw. I send with you all my hope, and any assistance you ask for. I am behind you 100%. But make no mistake this is literally a show down. The player base has been pushed too far. If you fail, there is no other options available to us. We are not interested nor do we care to hear political speak or soft spoken promises. We the players have played that game and we all know how it is done.
To CCP I say this:
Remember who put you where you are now. Remember we are your paying customers. Because of us you have become a successful company and with that success came a large player base. If you don't turn 180 degrees and put your focus back on this base and pay attention to your cash cow, the thousands and thousands of your primary demographics can turn on you. We built you brick by brick. We can take you down far faster. Nothing will ruin CCP more than the bad press headlines of "Player base turns on CCP". The bankers can read too you know.
We are really at a point where success or failure is all tied to this CSM meeting. The core of the real Eve players have collectively paused. The next action taken will be based on the outcome of this meeting. If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
So White Tree I wish you God speed and good luck.
|
|
Vicar2008
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:40:00 -
[311]
A million Skill Points you can alloacate anywhere we like as a "Sorry Guys" would also be nice........
Get on it Mr Tree
|
Victor Meldrew Khamsi
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:40:00 -
[312]
Good luck White tree
In the mean time can the ccp staff at least log into the major hubs or something on TQ and stop hiding behind there alts
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:48:00 -
[313]
I have a question though.
Where was the CSM before? It is said that CCP gave the CSM no information beforehand. But isn't it the duty of the CSM to be a pain in the backside and demanding information? Aren't they a stakeholder and don't they have the RIGHT to be informed about all?
Where was the CSM? Why didn't you make noises and built up more pressure before, when you got refused?
Do you agree that it was a mistake to be that passive? Or would you behave like this again in such a situation?
Please do not only look at CCP and what they did wrong. You, the CSM, you are supposed to be our champions and you failed us with that.
Now is your second chance. Don't waste it again! For the sake of EVE. |
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:49:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Psychlo
If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
Qouted for truth. What other game company could dream of a community like that? CCP don't blow this!
|
Miss Rabblt
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:52:00 -
[315]
please don't stop party! i almost never have had so much fun reading forums last days!
|
Lera Lotus
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:55:00 -
[316]
Good luck! Hope you get them on track. Fairly new player so no vet and I actually belive that CCP sometimes need to "try stuff out that we are not fan off", but they kinda went overboard here. :-) Drag them back into the boat and let's continue our journey to the stars!
|
Rimalia Wok
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:56:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Psychlo An open statement to both the CSM and CCP:
White Tree posted a calm well thought out statement. There is a good point in letting calmer heads prevail. CCP is a business and in business, emotional decisions can be moments of poor judgement. I would however like to point a few things out.
1. Hey CCP. Remember us? Back when you were a small company trying to claw your way into the market? Remember the days when the company was small, and every account counted and the joy when we broke the 5,000 users on at once? We were there too.
2. Hey CCP. Remember when you were a one trick pony with just EVE? Struggling with complex code and bugs and game play problems to work though? We were there.
3. Hey CCP. Remember when you finally made it big time and the pride and joy? We were there too.
4. Hey CCP. Look at your own Financial statements (we have). See those millions? That came from US!
We the players have been with CCP from day one. There can be no CCP without us. We may *****, and complain, but ironically when you address our complaints your product gets better. After all these years we are like family.
But recent events crossed not one, but two lines.
The first line crossed was MT. (nothing more needs to be said here we all know the issues)
The second line was the disrespect to your player base. You turned your back on us. The CEO himself stated he would not listen to what we say. Hey CCP . . .did you know the best of friends make the worst of enemies?
So to the CSM (White Tree) I say this:
As ambassadors to the player community, understand that a failure at this meeting will be the last straw. I send with you all my hope, and any assistance you ask for. I am behind you 100%. But make no mistake this is literally a show down. The player base has been pushed too far. If you fail, there is no other options available to us. We are not interested nor do we care to hear political speak or soft spoken promises. We the players have played that game and we all know how it is done.
To CCP I say this:
Remember who put you where you are now. Remember we are your paying customers. Because of us you have become a successful company and with that success came a large player base. If you don't turn 180 degrees and put your focus back on this base and pay attention to your cash cow, the thousands and thousands of your primary demographics can turn on you. We built you brick by brick. We can take you down far faster. Nothing will ruin CCP more than the bad press headlines of "Player base turns on CCP". The bankers can read too you know.
We are really at a point where success or failure is all tied to this CSM meeting. The core of the real Eve players have collectively paused. The next action taken will be based on the outcome of this meeting. If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
So White Tree I wish you God speed and good luck.
this
what about the guys/girls that was banned for posting the leaked mails !!!
|
Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:03:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Originally by: Psychlo
If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
Qouted for truth. What other game company could dream of a community like that? CCP don't blow this!
QFT
...... continues overleaf. |
Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:03:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: White Tree .... Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
Ta, thanks for the post, White Tree. I appreciate your concerns and agree that the ragefest has a real possibility of damaging CCP beyond repair.
However, I should point out one or two things: The current give-us-your-money fiasco is the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many issues to so many people that have been ignored for so long that have been simmering in the background that have been catalysed by this drama. This current rage and the apparent breach of trust that caused it will not be solved by CCP simply agreeing to drop beyond-vanity MT items. CCP really does need a new direction to repair the trust with its customers. Because that's what we are (or were).
It really is a case of what you do and not what you say.
Good luck.
"the straw that broke the camel's back" - Yep.
They've been digging this hole a long time. It has finally reached the point where the sides are falling in on them.
IOWs, 'fixing' this will take a protracted period of demonstrable effort showing they have finally understood the 'errors of their ways' and are committed to redeeming themselves.
At this point, there are no words which will be sufficient in and of themselves.
(Although, expressions of contriteness / public groveling from Mr. CEO might help to accelerate an attempted change in tone of the conversation.)
|
SwiftShadow14
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:03:00 -
[320]
What part of "your voices have been heard" didn't you people get? STFU already.
|
|
Macon Squaredealer
Squaredeal Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:08:00 -
[321]
Originally by: White Tree So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
I'm a patient old man; I can easily wait a few days to see how your meeting goes.
Speaking only for myself I would say MT P2W gold ammo, skillpoints, or anything that can actually impact the game is TOTALLY non-negotiable. No shades of grey, no kinda sorta, no listen to my argument and hear me out, it must be strictly limited to vanity items such as clothing and paintjobs which they can charge whatever they feel like as far as I'm concerned. Make it $10,000 for a monocle; I don't care in the least.
They also really need to re-think just milking us to fund their other projects and not fixing things that have been broken for years.
CQ must be optional. Debark from ship and enter CQ.
Communication and trust needs to be re-built. There is no excuse for some of the things they pulled, said, and openly discussed after what we have been told for years.
Good luck, I look forward to hearing the results of your trip.
___________________________________________ Watch for the Squaredeal Enterprises IPO in the coming months. |
Illadelph Justice
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:12:00 -
[322]
Fine, I'll be patient. But I'm going to be preparing my long boat, swords, axes and ruffling my beard in case we have to stage a viking invasion of Reykjavik. ---
|
Kobodera
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:13:00 -
[323]
My bet is that CCP expected people to rage on the forums as usual and then, also as usual, dont do anything about it. Just keep on playing the game and grumble in the forums and in private. EvE players have taken a lot of sh*t in the past and only a few people got fed up enough to quit...
Then something changed... Instead of just a few people getting ****ed and leaving they actually started putting their money where their mouths are. The 5000+ canceled accounts and counting is obviously hurting CCP badly or they would still be completely ignoring the playerbase and CSM alike, snickering in their private convos about how the golden goose is still alive and kicking...
So sorry White Tree, I don't mean to pi*s on your efforts, but this meeting is nothing but a panic button attempt from CCP to stifle the exodus from the game.
|
Valei Khurelem
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:13:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Macon Squaredealer
Originally by: White Tree So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
I'm a patient old man; I can easily wait a few days to see how your meeting goes.
Speaking only for myself I would say MT P2W gold ammo, skillpoints, or anything that can actually impact the game is TOTALLY non-negotiable. No shades of grey, no kinda sorta, no listen to my argument and hear me out, it must be strictly limited to vanity items such as clothing and paintjobs which they can charge whatever they feel like as far as I'm concerned. Make it $10,000 for a monocle; I don't care in the least.
They also really need to re-think just milking us to fund their other projects and not fixing things that have been broken for years.
CQ must be optional. Debark from ship and enter CQ.
Communication and trust needs to be re-built. There is no excuse for some of the things they pulled, said, and openly discussed after what we have been told for years.
Good luck, I look forward to hearing the results of your trip.
I agree with this, the main problem with CCP is that they have been very much less than truthful right now about what they intend, that much is clear, the knee jerk reactions they have given only fueled the player rage further.
Oh and a fantastic solution would be to actually make the normal ship view the default and have it so you right click and then click "Go to captain's quarters" or something rather than just getting spawned there unwillingly.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:14:00 -
[325]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too.
White tree I haven't seen much from *any* csm members including yourself on these forums. The thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention to came from these forums not csm internal forums. Can you please show me the posts where your voice joined that rumble? Until then I'm not sure what you mean by "we."
|
Xanthanan
Caldari Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:16:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Rimalia Wok
Originally by: Psychlo An open statement to both the CSM and CCP:
White Tree posted a calm well thought out statement. There is a good point in letting calmer heads prevail. CCP is a business and in business, emotional decisions can be moments of poor judgement. I would however like to point a few things out.
1. Hey CCP. Remember us? Back when you were a small company trying to claw your way into the market? Remember the days when the company was small, and every account counted and the joy when we broke the 5,000 users on at once? We were there too.
2. Hey CCP. Remember when you were a one trick pony with just EVE? Struggling with complex code and bugs and game play problems to work though? We were there.
3. Hey CCP. Remember when you finally made it big time and the pride and joy? We were there too.
4. Hey CCP. Look at your own Financial statements (we have). See those millions? That came from US!
We the players have been with CCP from day one. There can be no CCP without us. We may *****, and complain, but ironically when you address our complaints your product gets better. After all these years we are like family.
But recent events crossed not one, but two lines.
The first line crossed was MT. (nothing more needs to be said here we all know the issues)
The second line was the disrespect to your player base. You turned your back on us. The CEO himself stated he would not listen to what we say. Hey CCP . . .did you know the best of friends make the worst of enemies?
So to the CSM (White Tree) I say this:
As ambassadors to the player community, understand that a failure at this meeting will be the last straw. I send with you all my hope, and any assistance you ask for. I am behind you 100%. But make no mistake this is literally a show down. The player base has been pushed too far. If you fail, there is no other options available to us. We are not interested nor do we care to hear political speak or soft spoken promises. We the players have played that game and we all know how it is done.
To CCP I say this:
Remember who put you where you are now. Remember we are your paying customers. Because of us you have become a successful company and with that success came a large player base. If you don't turn 180 degrees and put your focus back on this base and pay attention to your cash cow, the thousands and thousands of your primary demographics can turn on you. We built you brick by brick. We can take you down far faster. Nothing will ruin CCP more than the bad press headlines of "Player base turns on CCP". The bankers can read too you know.
We are really at a point where success or failure is all tied to this CSM meeting. The core of the real Eve players have collectively paused. The next action taken will be based on the outcome of this meeting. If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
So White Tree I wish you God speed and good luck.
this
what about the guys/girls that was banned for posting the leaked mails !!!
Yes, THIS... good luck CSM!! Oh and that as well... Unbanning those accounts where players were deemed to have commited 'personal' attacks or leaked things that were quite possibly already leaked beyond repair would be a reasonable olive branch from CCP. --------------------------------------------
Pay TWICE for a game? I dont think so |
ninjaholic
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:19:00 -
[327]
Edited by: ninjaholic on 28/06/2011 14:21:12
Originally by: Psychlo RE: http://eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541454&page=11#310
While the air settles around the flailing arms of this rather dramatic statement, the bones of it I'll agree with. ÇÇP celebrated it's player base once. We were once customers. We are now consumers.
I only have one thing that I hope the CSM will state. If there are to be greed-transactions in-game, then it MUST be kept cosmetic only. Forever. Otherwise, this current player base will leave and I will join them.
But maybe that's what ÇÇP wants. All these noisy people to go away. All these noisy people paying for their flagship product Eve-Online, WoD and Dust514. ÇÇP I hope that the terrible network problems you're going to face with $ony with Dust514 will make you realise what you're doing. I laughed when I saw the article that it was exclusive to the $ony Lagstation. Surprising given your Microsoft licensing.
I might also add that these noisy people have been here years, while thousands have came and left because of the learning curve, dedication and effort taken to really succeed. You think they'll come back and stay just because they paid $60 for a monocle? Or a pink thorax? No they're still going to unsub, like they always have before. They're just going to do it while laughing at the NeX.
Only a small core percentage of people can play Eve-Online. I'll agree with ÇÇP that they'll need to find some way to expand their player base and attract more players. But this way is the way of greed, and will be the downfall of the game. You guys hoping that when WoW finally goes play for free that they'll all come here? LOL no. They're not here because they don't have the ability, the actual mental capability, to play Eve-Online. When blizzard jump on the greed-transactions in-game in WoW they're just going to stay there.
Just thought you should know.
Good luck ÇÇP.
Edit: The players who were banned are now martyrs. We can all only aspire to achieve as much as they have.
+ Support EVE's own IN-GAME fight record tool! |
karmaaa
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:25:00 -
[328]
Pretty much what I expected with a game killing company like Sony involved, was it not enough that they basically killed everquest and star wars with their money grabbing ways, they now go after eve?
CCP if you let this **** happen it will be the equivalent of mmo suicide.
/karm
|
Neftaran
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:28:00 -
[329]
Pawn
|
TheImpossibleDream
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:31:00 -
[330]
What makes me not want to resubbing is not the NEX. This was just the drop. The problem is the arrogance and the lies that have been so involved in their communications towards us in the last years, starting with the illegal parts of their EULA, to the petitions where they always claim not to have any log files ( but they are "not allowed" to tell us which events they actually log ), to the much higher prices for Europeans ( out of which only a small part is the VAT they claim to be ), to the refusal to offer any compensation for the DAYS the server is offline EACH month unless it results in a rage of the entire eve community ( yes, they only offered that SP compensation when all the timezones were affected and too many eve players have reacted; otherwise, when its only the EU tz that cannot play for the entire day, they don't care ), to the leaked info and the behaviour they had by suspending the players that commented it, and many more issues like this.
And, while i would very much desire so, i really do not think that the CSM meeting will solve this.
|
|
4IN1
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:33:00 -
[331]
Edited by: 4IN1 on 28/06/2011 14:34:51 Edited by: 4IN1 on 28/06/2011 14:34:11
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Originally by: Psychlo
If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad. Those same people have suggest higher subscription costs, suggest buying CCP stock, or anything else to help CCP make EVE a better game. That is loyalty and support beyond the wildest dreams any other company could even think of having. IF there are problems the player base has made it clear they will help. But CCP has to EARN that loyalty again with its players. Remind them of that when you are there.
Qouted for truth. What other game company could dream of a community like that? CCP don't blow this!
QFT
Well actually there are company out there that also have a strong loyalty and support from fans despite all the flaws of their games, but they are selling retail games instead of MMO, here is the dev blog of their CEO, and that is an example of how honestly and passion come to play.
CCP: Ambition, but rubbish. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:39:00 -
[332]
While I applaud you for that quite frankly excellent verbage White Tree, I hope you can live up to them.
After all, actions speak louder than words and we'll be waiting to see what CCP does, not what you say they're going to do. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
the plague
Anthraxus Defense Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:43:00 -
[333]
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years they either don't understand what players want or don't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM in a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it. Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
|
So Sensational
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:43:00 -
[334]
Originally by: White Tree and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Yeah...
|
Nix Gravity
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:00:00 -
[335]
Dear Counsellor Caucasian Tree.
Thank you for your committment to be cool and whatnot, but I very much feel that you are erring too far on the side of drinking the CCP Cool-Aid.
It is clear that for any meaningful discourse to take place cool heads will be required, and you can't storm in demanding a youtube video of Hilmar's beheading to correct this slap to the face of the customer base. But thing is... CCP *might* be the enemy here. You sound like you are just heading over to have your buddies and all-round cool people you have come to know tell you how it's all fine. But their internal communication has shown that behind your back the customer base that you represent is seen as little more than fuel for their greed (which is apparently good), that the great uprising you talk of was little more than entirely predictable response (and therefore something they were fine with since they released the changes that predictably lead to it), and that we should be more appreciative of their need for $1,000.00 pants.
As a representative of the player base you have to go in to talk with these people as the corporate entities which may well be trying to sell out our game, no matter how much you like them as people. It is your duty to the community to go in with your sword sheathed, but nevertheless armed.
It's your duty to the community that elected you to remain sceptical of these people in their professional capacity, though you are of course welcome to go chill with them as persons in the after-hours.
If you are heading over with the assumption that they were misunderstood, how hard will it be to convince you that everything is peachy-keen? It
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:08:00 -
[336]
The plague is right.
I recall no csm 6 outrage posts on these forums that forced the ccp to request a parley. Any concessions ccp makes will be due to the players on the forums saying they had enough. Please link your posts on these forums where you helped bring that about,or stop trying to leach credit for your own political gain.
Originally by: the plague I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years they either don't understand what players want or don't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM in a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.[/quotk
|
Hurtado JaSett
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:17:00 -
[337]
+1 the plague. Nailed it. |
Zen Sins
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:26:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Psychlo
If you think Eve will run with the loss of all those long term players, you are dreaming. Those same people have so much time invested they don't want this going bad.
The problem is, I believe CCP may be counting on simply replacing what they see as a "small but vocal" segment of the Eve community with new players attracted by a simplified user interface (see SWG) and possibly even a F2P model. If so, then their only interest in this debacle is minimizing the bad press which may affect the realization of that plan.
|
Joe Skellington
Minmatar Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:33:00 -
[339]
Supported.
--
|
Vaedian GER
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:40:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Vaedian GER on 28/06/2011 15:47:04
Remind them that EVE is about competition, not consumerism.
Remove the NeX story completly, because even if they don't upgrade it to game-affecting items now, it will always be a door into that direction and after a few months or a year they'll try again. It's like internet-bans in europe. Once governments have built the infrastructure they start to use it more and more and more. A neverending cycle.
Also tell them to take an example of Blizzard, who cancel long-term projects when they feel they won't work out. It is totally unfair to let the EVE players pay for a game they can never play (Dust 514, I know a lot of EVE players who only own a PC and only play EVE on it). With the recent developments of Sony and their Online Network CCP can't really expect a large number of customers, especially with the new console generation coming soon(tm). _______________
|
|
Cuko
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:44:00 -
[341]
Honestly, I believe CCP should have just let all those players who said they wanted to unsubscribe, do it! If they're on the forums whining, then that is the fast majority of whiners in the game. We'ed be rid of them in, one fell swoop. Which leads me to the CSM's. The CSM's have always been a joke and will continue to be. I hope CCP uses this time to get all the losers out. Give it a whole month before you act.
PLEX GTC have been ingame for awhile now. I'm able to buy ships and characters (purchased this character too) ingame with PLEX's and GTC. Pretty sure we've had those for years now and those mediums enable you to use real life currency to purchase virtual items or characters (skill points in a way).
I don't even pay for a subsciption anymore. Most older players a know don't either. Provided you put in the time, you're able to pay for a PLEX within 2 - 3 days. That's a months subscription.
CCP's reponse was the only fail here and banning certain players. The other arguments made were from chronic whiners (I know some of them) and bitter vets who only log on to chat or B!tch.
Honestly, the rest of ******s, randomly following the crowd can **** off! Good riddance! Also, **** you and **** the other Csm's.
-proxyyyy
|
Gwenywell Shumuku
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:47:00 -
[342]
Don't know if you are still reading (came a bit late to the party here):
Don't EVER misjudge the situation my friend. You are not going there to negotiate anything, understand that and behave accordingly.
Think about how CSM was used by CCP, and i mean CSM5+CSM6. You signed an NDA, and they STILL left you out of the loop. NEVER forget that.
So, what is your real goal while up there? GATHER INFORMATION, talk to ppl, devs, everyone you can find, behind the scenes. Try to find out whats really going on, outside of the csm meetings. THAT, and THAT ONLY is your responsibility while in Iceland.
We, the players, need a clear picture of the situation and future plans, and we can't trust official information. So, use the time and gather unofficial information, if you have ANY FRIENDS left up there (Seleene? coworker friends maybe?).
Thanks.
|
Nal Drenii
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:54:00 -
[343]
Edited by: Nal Drenii on 28/06/2011 15:54:18
Yes, pay-to-win is a huge problem and really should be discussed... but in some regards this is already a part of EVE, hello PLEX. All you have to do is pay $350 and you almost instantly have 8 bil ISK which you can then use to buy whatever crazy powerful stuff you'd like.
One of my biggest concerns however is why CCP continues to ignore the big list of bugs, balance problems, and suggested improvements put forward by the previous CSM and community but instead continues to develop content very few players are interested in.
Yes I know team BFF has been working on some of this stuff. But why have we not had one or two full expansion cycles dedicated to hammering out this list?
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:55:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku Don't know if you are still reading (came a bit late to the party here)
I'm still reading, yeah. _______________________________________
|
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:03:00 -
[345]
There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
-Windjammer
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:06:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
-Windjammer
Related to that: read my initial post here.
I'm no critic of the CSM per se, or individual members. I'm just realistic; CCP has lied to previous and existing CSM members. They've also lied to players. There's been occations where last-minute additions to patches has been added without consulting CSM, and has been done against player feedback on forums, etc.
All of the above make you wonder what the CSM can do, and especially: in critical times like this, it's even less valid to take the CSM to Iceland. As far as we seen (actions, not words), CCP just uses CSM for smaller tweaks and fit them into the boxes that fit them. If CCP have another agenda, they will just do whatever they feel like. Including lying to CSM.
I.e., what the **** is the point? And that's negative view on CCP, not CSM. I bet the CSM candidates do what they can. -
|
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:12:00 -
[347]
Sorry to say it, but this sounds like more CCP NON-answers. I realize you're just another player trying to unf*ck this game, but trying to pacify the community isn't helping in any way. I realize CCP wants a moment to catch a breath and regroup, but a disorganized worldwide community of space pirates is showing a more organized front than CCP right now. We've heard far too little from CCP on this, and the CSM is only going to be put in charge of crowd control as far as I can tell.
Don't stand in front of that bus, White Tree. Be a player. Stand up for the changes Eve needs, not for trying to lower the pitchforks.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:23:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
CSM6 will have nothing to do with what ccp will offer. CCP will know what concessions they are going to make before they meet. They wonÆt offer the concessions right away and they will make it appear that csm 6 has some sort of role in this, but csm 6 has nothing to do with this.
The multiple ôccp sucks IÆm quittingö threadnaughts all over the official eve general forum are what caused ccp to think twice, and ask for a ôparley.ö
The csm 6 members really didnÆt participate in those threads and when they did they were mostly neutral to ccp or sometimes even offering excuses like ôthose are just personal opinions of the devsö
I will only be critical of csm 6 if they start to take credit for the concessions ccp will make at this meeting. If they are honest and admit that they really had no role in it then I will be publicly thank them for their honesty and start to look at them differently. But if they try to leach credit and thereby play into ccpÆs hands then IÆm sorry IÆm calling them out.
|
NeoNexus
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:24:00 -
[349]
Good luck WT. You know what they need to deliver.
If all fails, please at least get a "nuke the monument skill" and make them make the unsub process real easy. We will need it.
|
Gwenywell Shumuku
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:26:00 -
[350]
Oh yea, the "unsub problematic". Thats another point, so if you pay with ANYTHING OTHER then CC, you can't express your opinions on why you unsub because...there is no unsub button. Thats comedy gold right there.
|
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:30:00 -
[351]
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
CSM6 will have nothing to do with what ccp will offer. CCP will know what concessions they are going to make before they meet. They wonÆt offer the concessions right away and they will make it appear that csm 6 has some sort of role in this, but csm 6 has nothing to do with this.
The multiple ôccp sucks IÆm quittingö threadnaughts all over the official eve general forum are what caused ccp to think twice, and ask for a ôparley.ö
The csm 6 members really didnÆt participate in those threads and when they did they were mostly neutral to ccp or sometimes even offering excuses like ôthose are just personal opinions of the devsö
I will only be critical of csm 6 if they start to take credit for the concessions ccp will make at this meeting. If they are honest and admit that they really had no role in it then I will be publicly thank them for their honesty and start to look at them differently. But if they try to leach credit and thereby play into ccpÆs hands then IÆm sorry IÆm calling them out.
Pretty much that, decent summary.
Basicly imho, CSM is bound to fail this meeting, so I'm not expecting anything of them really. If they want some positives in my book, they'd need to force statements from CCP where they apologize for their lies. It'd preferably include Hilmars resignation as CEO, an increased involvement in the EVE future by CSM. I.e. want to see the overall transparency we were promised after t20, through CSM. -
|
Izuru Hishido
Amarr Origin. Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:30:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Miryade Loon
No more trust in us.
I trust that CCP will change back exactly as much as I trust that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isn't trying to develop nuclear weapons
Couldn't have said it better myself.
@WT: Yes, I know you're trying your best to see both sides, but there comes a point when the playerbase realizes that nothing influential ever comes out of the CSM meetings with CCP. CCP created the CSM with the express purpose of making us think we had some influence as customers, but as it turns out with multiple blogs that were posted without any word in edgewise from the CSM, no feedback, nothing of the sort, we don't have any influence.
The only kind of influence we have is when the entire goddamn playerbase bands together and screams at CCP in a fashion that resembles a warcry.
That's the only time I've seen a major change happen. -----------------
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." |
Calden De'Altos
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:30:00 -
[353]
Hey White Tree, just a quick suggestion while you have CCP's ear...
Many of us players know that the current "walking in closets" is just a temporary situation, mostly implemented to make sure the masic functions of walking around are stable and functioning. That being said, I know the player base would feel more comfortable about walking in stations if a rough timeline was given as to what the next "stage(s)" of implemention are and what time frame we might be looking at for implementation.
I think this would go a long way in making the players feel a bit more "in the loop" and therefore appreciated.
|
Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:32:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
-Windjammer
Related to that: read my initial post here.
I'm no critic of the CSM per se, or individual members. I'm just realistic; CCP has lied to previous and existing CSM members. They've also lied to players. There's been occations where last-minute additions to patches has been added without consulting CSM, and has been done against player feedback on forums, etc.
All of the above make you wonder what the CSM can do, and especially: in critical times like this, it's even less valid to take the CSM to Iceland. As far as we seen (actions, not words), CCP just uses CSM for smaller tweaks and fit them into the boxes that fit them. If CCP have another agenda, they will just do whatever they feel like. Including lying to CSM.
I.e., what the **** is the point? And that's negative view on CCP, not CSM. I bet the CSM candidates do what they can.
I agree with what you are saying but the trip is a chance for a person to person talk to get in CCP's face and have them see the people (some of them have interacted with before) and 'splain their company's behavior. Lay out all the cards, that they will, IF they will, and start talking from there. Do I expect them to make everyone happy, absolutely not, I want honesty and maybe we'll get some more information out of them, maybe not. I'd love some real action but I'm not holding out hope for that.
Would I like to know what would/will come NOW as opposed to waiting even longer for CCP to answer us, of course but I don't think we'll get any better answer now then we will get later.
Either way people who want to leave now can do so, people who want to see if/when more MT screwup the game, can do so, people who want to get more MT for advantages can wait to see, etc. Fundamentally the game hasn't changed YET, this is where the other side is right, you can play and support the game you like and leave when it changes direction. Anyone wanting guarantees is just asking to be lied to in order to feel better, natural but pointless.
CCP's had the ball in their court for days now, is it a week yet, so what they do and say will make or break the 'movement' of angry players. Many would be happy to be lied to with promises of no mt for advantage, I'm sure you've seen the posts of people practically begging to be told 'it will be all okay, trust us'. Plenty more deny any possibility of fact or truth to what we've seen, ie no matter what is uncovered they'll stand by CCP and believe it will be okay, others don't care they'll pay for MT or not just lots of love for CCP.
The point as I see it is the CSM, if they are willing, and I think some if not all of them are, will tell CCP people face to face they screwed up and are 'killing' their game/product. Coming from 'lolcustomers' even thousands that might not mean as much as the people you've been communicating and working with, yes in a limited fashion but still better than any of us faceless players.
As far as the CSM I don't expect them to 'do better' it isn't their fault CCP ignores them or only uses them for this or that instead of more things, not everything needs CSM feedback, but if you are looking to change the game makes sense to get it.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
|
Tribunia
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:37:00 -
[355]
Originally by: White Tree CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth.
You cant seriously be sayng that they went into this one blindfolded, without a clue?
Asking your readers to beleive that, I personally consider an insult.
Dont try to smooth things over, look where it got CCP themselves.
|
Gashblight
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:41:00 -
[356]
I'll be shocked if this emergency vacation will produce anything. I'll need to see these two things before I'll resub.
1. A pledge from ccp that they will not add items to the cash shop that will give a pvp advantage over players who do not use it. 2. Return of the hanger view with an option to enter the stations closet.
If you're not demanding these two things on behalf of the players you represent, you can **** off.
|
Kirkland Langue
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:42:00 -
[357]
+1 to the Plague.
CSM 6 has a Golden opportunity to actually be seen as relevant to the Playerbase - or it has the opportunity to demonstrate that the CSM is nothing.
Don't come back expressing success if EVE still has Aurum when the meeting is done. EVE already has ISK and PLEX - there is zero need for yet another currency. Especially a second form of currency that can only be created through the use of real money. (no your ISK does not create Aurum, only Plex does and Plex only comes from cash)
|
Madenofpain
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:42:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku Oh yea, the "unsub problematic". Thats another point, so if you pay with ANYTHING OTHER then CC, you can't express your opinions on why you unsub because...there is no unsub button. Thats comedy gold right there.
Oh yes their is I still had my credit card info in their encase I forgot to add a plex in time so there is a unsubscribe button. Also WT give them hell do not go over their to be good friends with them. I want you to get it in writing no mt effecting the game. They will probably not want to as dust 514 is a pay to win and it effects eve. They need to change something and fast or they will lose a portion of the player base.
|
XSarah
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:43:00 -
[359]
good post
|
Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:45:00 -
[360]
LETS MAKE IT CLEAR:
WE PAY 15U$ FOR THE WHOLE SANDBOX. WOW IS 15 ALSO, GULD WARS AND DIABLO 3 WILL BE FREE OF CHARGE. THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE TRYING TO MAKE EVE MORE THAN IT IS.
|
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:48:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Gashblight I'll need to see these two things before I'll resub.
1. A pledge from ccp that they will not add items to the cash shop that will give a pvp advantage over players who do not use it. 2. Return of the hanger view with an option to enter the stations closet.
You will get neither of those things and you will continue playing anyway.
Just like the rest of the limp-****, empty threat *****es.
I laugh at your impotence. HA!
Mr Epeen
|
Chainfall
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:48:00 -
[362]
cross posting this - from the vote of no confidence thread.
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
|
Xenuria
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:49:00 -
[363]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
If you guys fudge this and CCP decides to take away MT then I am going to Unsub all 52+ of my accounts. "Sweet Jesus, It's an Anti-AT field!"
|
Janos Saal
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:49:00 -
[364]
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
Not empty quotin'.
|
StarRanger
Gallente Royal Star Ranger Family
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:00:00 -
[365]
Thanks for sharing your point of how its is going, White Tree. I think it is important that more people get involve in this stage of how the game is going. It will take a lot of talking and back-communication towards us (the eve community) to settle some difference.
Hope to read more about it from you , CCP Pann, or anyone else there. Keep our faith and hopes up!
|
Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:02:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Chainfall cross posting this - from the vote of no confidence thread.
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
Although that is not entirely un-suprissing, and in-deed quite disappointing, it is yet another example of how CCP continualy fails to communicate with it's customer base in a proper and controlled way.
It would appear that there is and internal communication issue within CCP (i.e. they don't).
|
Gashblight
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:04:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Gashblight I'll need to see these two things before I'll resub.
1. A pledge from ccp that they will not add items to the cash shop that will give a pvp advantage over players who do not use it. 2. Return of the hanger view with an option to enter the stations closet.
You will get neither of those things and you will continue playing anyway.
Just like the rest of the limp-****, empty threat *****es.
I laugh at your impotence. HA!
Mr Epeen
Sorry not everyone is hopelessly addicted regardless of the **** they are spoon fed. Feel free to call me out after Aug 3 if you see me in game or on the boards without the above changes. *hint* You wont.
|
Aviditas
Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:07:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Aviditas on 28/06/2011 17:08:03 WT, First thanks for spending your time with this.
#1 CCP reps said some really unflattering things about us, their customers so yeah they kinda feel like the enemy to me right now. I would like it if they apologize to you all personally on our behalf.
#2 I want to see a vid posted on youtube by Zulu stating categorically there will never be pay to win MT so long as this game is pay to play as well. Personally i would be willing to pay another 5 bucks a month to make MT go away in all forms. I don't give a hoot what the rest of the industry is 'evolving' towards, there is no law that says any dev company has to follow the crowd.
#3 Absent #2 in some form I am fully prepared to unsub the rest of my accounts (did one saturday) and go play something else. CCP needs to understand they are NOT the only game in town and we can and will vote with our wallets and go play something else.
|
wingman01
Caldari Seedless Inc Chaos Theory Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:09:00 -
[369]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
A little melodramatic, sorry to upset the good ship riot but most players don't care for the recent dispute, protests and tears. I for one don't care for the outcome of the meeting, im embracing Incarna, and looking forward to Dust 514. The cash shop issue is not an issue for me.
|
Minigin
Undead Stuffed Bunnies
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:10:00 -
[370]
Edited by: Minigin on 28/06/2011 17:10:05 what about my voice?
i like monocles.
have i been heard? .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
|
|
Tugrath Akers
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:12:00 -
[371]
Just curious, are there any examples of an impact CSM has had on anything game related? I've only heard of stuff that CSM has been against but got released anyway.
|
Darkstone en Tilavine
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:12:00 -
[372]
I support CCP and micro transactions and hope CCP makes some decent cash so I can keep playing in an awesome game world they have created.
|
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Terran United Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:13:00 -
[373]
Edited by: northwesten on 28/06/2011 17:16:11
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
+ 1 !!!!!
Originally by: wingman01
stuff
Do you know even know what's it all about? I doubt it... ------------------------------------
|
Nath Blazek
Minmatar Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:13:00 -
[374]
Love the attitude you are taking into the meeting. The entire industry and the local papers in Iceland are all watching.
The is unique in the History of MMOs, maybe with the other exception being Funcom and their AO disaster several years ago.
They ended up being F2P or Premium. I'm not sure if their COO has the same tunnel vision as CCPs though.
After reading his statement, it seems your meeting is more a 'how do we get the playerbase to accept our vision' rather than listening to concerns and addressing them.
Good Luck, 1 account is biomassed, the other expires 7/20.
"If you make 1 person happy, they will tell another, if you make 1 person angry, they will tell 10. It's exponential after that" - Zig Zigler -
o7
Of Course!
/me hangs head |
Mechael
Minmatar Helhest
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:16:00 -
[375]
Remove and replace the board of directors in its entirety. Fire anyone who believes that microtransactions in any form have a place in EVE Online. Get rid of ALL microtransactions, PLEX was a sketchy enough thing to add.
Those are my terms. If you represent me, you'll make these demands. If these things do not happen, CCP will not only never get another dime from me, but I'll be steering everyone I meet as far away from their products as I can.
Kick the rascals out of office! Lying, cheating, two-timing, money-grubbing bastards.
|
the plague
Anthraxus Defense Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:17:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time.
That argument would be easier to accept had White Tree not started off the thread by telling us how cool it is to hang out with his friends -- the devs -- at the pub. On the contrary, there is every reason to believe CCP will have already decided what they are going to do prior to the meeting, and that the CSM is being summoned in an attempt to legitimize CCP's decision and re-focus the attention of the game press.
If the CSM is complicit in these shenanigans then it has outlived its usefulness as a player organization. The CSM's role here is clear: To represent player interests in EVE Online. If the CSM can do nothing given the golden pportunity the community has created for it, then it needs to go away.
|
xxVastorxx
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:18:00 -
[377]
seeing all those protesters in major market hub systems makes me want to play Smartbomb with a geddon. lots of rookie ships ive seen and faction ships perfect time to get some suicide ganks :D
|
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:23:00 -
[378]
Originally by: White Tree
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
So what you're actually saying is that you're incapable of doing what is necessary because you have been blinded by the personal bias associated with sitting down and having a beer with somebody once.
Ok.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:23:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 28/06/2011 17:10:05 what about my voice?
i like monocles.
have i been heard?
You got your monocle, what the fvck else do you want? ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.
|
Bill Pitt
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:25:00 -
[380]
One has to wonder if there is a point to this meeting when CCP are announcing they will not say that items won't be sold.
vanity stuff, fine, but how can you have a player driven economy when CCP add items to sell for cash. Those items will either have to give people an edge or will undercut the economics of EVE.
With the 2nd option, why have an economy at all if CCP will just supply and undercut you. With the second, the person with the biggest wallet rather than skill wins.
While a relative noob and way behind the pace of the vets here, I would see no point in playing the game if I can buy a victory. The challenge is the appeal and if I can just buy it, why bother?
|
|
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:26:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time. Plus, theyÆve got the heat of the community to give them ammo.
I say make whatever contingency plans you want, but wait to finalize until we hear what happens. If you donÆt hear what you like or you hear something like, ôweÆre writing up the notesöààààwell thereÆs your answer.
-Windjammer
Related to that: read my initial post here.
I'm no critic of the CSM per se, or individual members. I'm just realistic; CCP has lied to previous and existing CSM members. They've also lied to players. There's been occations where last-minute additions to patches has been added without consulting CSM, and has been done against player feedback on forums, etc.
All of the above make you wonder what the CSM can do, and especially: in critical times like this, it's even less valid to take the CSM to Iceland. As far as we seen (actions, not words), CCP just uses CSM for smaller tweaks and fit them into the boxes that fit them. If CCP have another agenda, they will just do whatever they feel like. Including lying to CSM.
I.e., what the **** is the point? And that's negative view on CCP, not CSM. I bet the CSM candidates do what they can.
WhatÆs the point? The point is every time someone from CCP, particularly Zulu, has opened their mouth they just pour fuel on the fire. The ineptitude has been profound with notable exceptions, such as Pann. CCP needs to speak to the CSM in private in order to formulate a response by bouncing ideas and words off the CSM to gauge a probable reaction from the EVE community. They need to do this in Iceland and in private so that they, CCP, have some control over the CSM even if the only control is to remind them of NDA restrictions and to have them in a room where theyÆre not going to fly off the handle and broadcast something that will damage CCP even further. ItÆs a comfort move for CCP.
The above might be a little hard for some to swallow because they, like myself, know how to handle situations like this without it blowing up in our faces. ItÆs a little difficult to accept there are people without those skills, but the apparent facts have to be accepted on face value. Witness the history of CCP Zulu, formerly CCP Zulupark.
Flipping that, the cynic in me says the call for the CSM to Iceland is a delay tactic. CCP knows that the protests will lose steam over time. CCP knows that the longer they can delay, the more community apathy will grow and the more theyÆll be able to shove down the players throats without it getting spewed back in the form of people leaving EVE in disgust. To CCP the CSM is nothing more than a tool to ômanage player expectationsö and to give CCP some kind of indication as to how the community might be expected to react. The current CSM has been ignored more than the previous CSM because of its composition. Hopefully, player reaction has changed that.
While the CSMÆs current composition may be unsavory to some of us, it is not composed of stupid people and those people are now ****ed. TheyÆre not going to go to Iceland with sunshine and lollypops on their minds. TheyÆre going with the civilized version of pitchforks, torches and a great bit dollop of WTF?! attitude.
Either wayàààà.a few more days waiting to hear what comes of the meeting is not going to matter. Keep the protests going. Keep unsubbing. Keep the fire going. All IÆm saying is donÆt biomass your characters just yet. Wait until July 1st or July 2nd. Beyond that, itÆs just a delaying tactic and that in itself will be an answer.
-Windjammer
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:27:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Gashblight
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Gashblight I'll need to see these two things before I'll resub.
1. A pledge from ccp that they will not add items to the cash shop that will give a pvp advantage over players who do not use it. 2. Return of the hanger view with an option to enter the stations closet.
You will get neither of those things and you will continue playing anyway.
Just like the rest of the limp-****, empty threat *****es.
I laugh at your impotence. HA!
Mr Epeen
Sorry not everyone is hopelessly addicted regardless of the **** they are spoon fed. Feel free to call me out after Aug 3 if you see me in game or on the boards without the above changes. *hint* You wont.
Still posting in the forum of a game you quit, I see.
Not hopelessly addicted...
indeed.
Mr Epeen
|
Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:28:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Chainfall cross posting this - from the vote of no confidence thread.
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We knew they would never say never, it was always just a question of how they would word their response.
Saying "you will be able to buy items, but you'll never be able to buy victory" is about as non-committal as you can get - they make a response to quell the media (the only ones they're really interested in) and continue on their merry way to destroying the heart of the game.
It's not like we didn't see that coming from a mile away.
|
SkinSin
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:29:00 -
[384]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.
And then, if past experience is anything to go by, everything talked about will either be NDA or will take 8 weeks to get the minutes out....
|
Josefine Etrange
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:32:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Miryade Loon
No more trust in us.
I trust that CCP will change back exactly as much as I trust that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isn't trying to develop nuclear weapons
Hey, he is really not trying to develop nuclear weapons. He is not a scientist, he just pays some for the job! Why a forum in the year 2011 still has no automatic double post merge which can be done even with javascript mostly is beyond my understanding. |
Jangotat
Minmatar Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:36:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Doc Fury I am certainly ready to examine their actions and not what they say.
/Seriously, how much of that did CCP write for you? //just asking
This one sums it up for me
All joking and wise cracking aside...good timing with an excellent post.
Subscriptions have not been reinstated, yet, but as stated at the start the "the ball is in their court." Having said that however, the disillusionment runs high after at this point and it will take some "concrete definitive statements" to satisfy this player. I shake my head after realizing how much time and money I have invested over the years in this virtual universe on the hopes it was worth sticking with over the long haul.
Here is hoping for the best...o7
|
Tygr Wolf
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:36:00 -
[387]
as CCP said to the community, CCP will also be judged by their actions
|
Minigin
Undead Stuffed Bunnies
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:37:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 28/06/2011 17:10:05 what about my voice?
i like monocles.
have i been heard?
You got your monocle, what the fvck else do you want?
pirate hat. .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
|
Gashblight
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:38:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Gashblight
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Gashblight I'll need to see these two things before I'll resub.
1. A pledge from ccp that they will not add items to the cash shop that will give a pvp advantage over players who do not use it. 2. Return of the hanger view with an option to enter the stations closet.
You will get neither of those things and you will continue playing anyway.
Just like the rest of the limp-****, empty threat *****es.
I laugh at your impotence. HA!
Mr Epeen
Sorry not everyone is hopelessly addicted regardless of the **** they are spoon fed. Feel free to call me out after Aug 3 if you see me in game or on the boards without the above changes. *hint* You wont.
Still posting in the forum of a game you quit, I see.
Not hopelessly addicted...
indeed.
Mr Epeen
Trolololollalala
|
Deloa
Gallente Novus Alba FerrumSus
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:40:00 -
[390]
Well CCP where quoted as having said "that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.".....well i think this is a case of "at the moment the players look at what CCP does about this entire mess and less about what THEY say", karmas a ***** CCP!
Its a real shame that its come to this tbh
|
|
Dr Valeri
Royal Khanid Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:40:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Xia Long So White Tree:
1- what are you (as CSM not just u) goin to ask to CCP?can you let us peons know? 2- what's the point behiond which you will stand up and leave the meeting? 3- once the meeting will be over, how long will it take for you (even better CCP) to let us have our answers? 4- ok this is your position, what about the other CSM guys? considering we'r "forced" to count on you, i guess we should really need to know what ALL of you guys think about the situation
I didn't vote for any of you (guess i'm not alone tbh), now i'm forced to depend of you, guess you can understand why i'm asking those questions
Ofc they need to bow for CCP or else they need to walk home, which is quite a problem of the meeting takes place on Iceland :)
On a more serious note: Good luck to you and I hope you can relay our worries about MT providing for an I-WIN button.
|
Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:42:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
------------------------------------------------- A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:43:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 28/06/2011 17:10:05 what about my voice? i like monocles. have i been heard?
You got your monocle, what the fvck else do you want?
pirate hat.
ooh. I want a pirate hat... His name was John Turbefield!
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:44:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Ciar Meara
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
As is fitting...
|
Muul Udonii
Minmatar Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:47:00 -
[395]
I've been watching this play out with interest, although not participating as I have very little time or energy for it.
The issue for me is as follows:
If there is ever an item which has any effect in real game terms upon gameplay, that is not available via contracts of the market; then it should not ever be considered for addition to the NEX.
I'm not too fussed about things that can be bought by players and seeded onto the market for a small profit (or loss), but things like adding functionality for those who pay for it, or purchasing standings are an absolute no-no.
Should this happen (and not before) I would stop playing.
BUT - CCP should be ashamed of how they have treated their players, and recognise that it should not take a leak to get the truth out of them.
I hope this is the message that is put across at the CSM summit.
Good luck guys.
|
Dr Valeri
Royal Khanid Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:48:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
Great, minutes after I posted my "positive view"-post...
|
derivativo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:50:00 -
[397]
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
+1
|
Sawako
Ars Industria
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:50:00 -
[398]
CSM should just resign.
|
Xervish Krin
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:51:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Xervish Krin on 28/06/2011 17:53:44 I think a lot of people are currently so involved in the outrage and protest that they no longer want to win. They want to believe that Hilmar is the enemy and that CCP is evil, and will believe that no matter what. It's far easier to think in absolutes, to say that EVE is dead and that CCP is hell bent on wringing the last drops of life from it, and to carry on with blind and unrestrained hate, than to deal with the truth that our hissy fits might not be entirely justified and that dropping the ball does not equate to the end of the world.
People are so mentally invested in the 'revolution' and the sense of righteousness and importance it gives them that they don't want to give it up, least of all for something as petty as reality. Far better to continue the fantasy of a spurned player standing against The Man, with fire in his heart and a tear in his eye.
|
F1F2F3
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:54:00 -
[400]
I too, feel relieved that the mighty CSM will be our voice. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3... |
|
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:54:00 -
[401]
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 17:22:04
Originally by: Windjammer There are a lot of critics of the CSM in this thread and maybe some of that is justified criticism, but thereÆs room to believe theyÆll do better this trip. Sure they got treated like chumps last time, but thatÆs all the more reason theyÆre not inclined to let it happen this time.
That argument would be easier to accept had White Tree not started off the thread by telling us how cool it is to hang out with his friends -- the devs -- at the pub. On the contrary, there is every reason to believe CCP will have already decided what they are going to do prior to the meeting, and that the CSM is being summoned in an attempt to legitimize CCP's decision and re-focus the attention of the game press.
If the CSM is complicit in these shenanigans then it has outlived its usefulness as a player organization. The CSM's role here is clear: To represent player interests in EVE Online. If the CSM can do nothing given the golden opportunity the community has created for it, then it needs to go away.
I couldnÆt agree more. My definition of the CSM ôdoing betterö is this. Come back with the guaranteeÆs and answers the community wants or come back with the message those things arenÆt going to happen. I think this CSM has the capability to ask the pointy questions and know when those questions are being evaded.
The community wants answers, not double talk or vague answers that donÆt guarantee anything. CCP must commit to defined answers they can be held accountable for or they indicate they want to retain options to do as they please in the future by introducing things they know the community will not gladly accept at this time. The community wants a yes or no answer on their concerns and they want those immediately. Not a month from now. Not two weeks from now. No later than July 2nd and preferably sooner.
-Windjammer
|
Doc Fury
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:58:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
You have not been heard, but you are being herded.
MOO!
We're not upset that you lied to us CCP, we're upset that from now on we can't believe you.
/I am not a Golden Goose /I am not a Cash Cow
|
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:01:00 -
[403]
CCP have made and maintained a game I love. I have sunk countless hours and money into Eve over the nearly six years I've been playing. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because of that. However, they need to work on being more open and honest with the players.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
|
Speaker4 theDead
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:03:00 -
[404]
Sorry, but I've seen nothing to convince me that anything will change. Incarna is a sloppily written resource hog. When they finally open up the station, adding huge numbers of polys, only a new hot rig will run it decently. CCP will institute p2win, because they simply not making enough money to support eve and two other games. I think regardless of what they say now, all the things that we are complaining about will come to pass regardless of any promises made.
If CCP wants to remove all the complaints from the forum all they have to do is reimburse for the two months left on this sub and my other subs.
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:04:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz Let there be no pause let there be no quarter, mercy is reserved for people of honor. CCP through it's actions and leaks have shown they have no honor, their word has as much worth as the gum under our boot. Let the subscriptions continue to drop in protest, keep CCP's feet to the fire if and only if a majority of the communities issues are resolved should we pull back from the brink. Do not listen to this UNCLE TOM of a CSM representative, a placater an apologist. A representative who writes to us like he doesn't have the balls to the use the leverage given to the CSM by the community to change CCP and improve EVE. Strikes don't work if you back off during negotiations.
|
Sophie Vherokior
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:06:00 -
[406]
If there is one issue you must bring up with CCP when you go there it is this:
The attitude that Zulu, Hilmar and the internal newsletter showed us about how CCP perceives its customers! It became very clear from the get go that complaints were expected and should be dismissed as mere fear of change without even examining the arguments made by the players. Hilmar's leaked e-mail basically said that we as customers should not be listened to, unless we put our words into actions (or put in a better way, cancelled our subscriptions). This attitude has to change! The EVE community is not the WoW community, or some other gaming community. We are EVE players. CCP gave us a sandbox and we built castles and towers with it - invested our time and energy to this end, and now we have a stake in this whole thing. It is important that CCP understand this. They were the ones who gave us a sandbox and a CSM.
You can't invite people to the meeting with promise of influence and then tell them they're not allowed to talk.
/Soph
|
Eclorc
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:08:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
in translation: read, people. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mbl.is%2Ffrettir%2Ftaekni%2F2011%2F06%2F28%2Fpeningar_na_ekki_yfirradum%2F&sl=is&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
|
TriadSte
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:12:00 -
[408]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
I am sat down, but I am mentally standing up in pure ovation for this post. It screams trust honour respect and most of all, truth. I can only ask for CCP to do the same.
Alot are unsubbing but personally I feel that everyone messes up and yeah CCP messed up this one, but alot has to change. In my opinion the smallest things matter as much as the bigger things.
1. Being truthful about patch days because the ETAs are so bad its beyond thought and have been for the 4 years I've played.
2. CCP have to begin to answer questions within the forums put forth to them by players, this for me is very important as that shows exponentially that CCP do in fact care about our thoughts and opinions.
3. CCP have got to realise with all importance that without us the subbing player, they lose many millions of Dollars/Euros per month. But its catch 22 they know were hooked on the game [and quite rightfully so its awesome] So yeah we need CCP but without us CCP loses that revenue and possibly goes bankrupt.
You have to realise that the game must evolve the way the player wants, not the way ccp forsee.
|
Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:15:00 -
[409]
Good post and good luck.
|
Asura Cascade
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:21:00 -
[410]
Good luck. Myself and many others are counting on you.
|
|
diaufop
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:22:00 -
[411]
Edited by: diaufop on 28/06/2011 18:22:48 This interview makes it abundantly clear that the CSM's flying out to Iceland can, and will, achieve nothing despite all of White Tree's flowery prose.
A few paraphrases from the interview:
"We're never going to say "NO" to pay-to-win, because ultimately we will introduce them the moment we think we can garner more profit from them than we lose in subscriptions" - nothing new there, it's what we've been saying for the past week.
"The statements from the newsletter and e-mail were taken out of context". The newsletter perhaps - although it's very clear that the newsletter was a NEWSletter and is used as an internal propaganda device to ensure everyone in the company is one the same page, not as a "discussion provoker". Only soundwave and turbefield's articles were "discussion", the rest was pure statement of intent.
As for the e-mail, it was quoted wholly verbatim, how the **** is that out of context?
"CCP have already decided what they're going to say and the CSM will be used as a tool to rubber-stamp our decisions and present them to the players." As we all expected anyway.
How does it feel to be played for fools, oh mighty CSM? To be used as the PR stunt you avow you aren't?
|
Brian Regyri
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:26:00 -
[412]
So, because you have met a few of the folks at CCP and know them personally, we should all simply be quiet about the recent changes to the game and just bend over?
People have been pointing out bugs and glitches and everything that's wrong before the expansion was released. Our voices were not heard then, and we definitely will not silence ourselves after they have failed to listen to us! Can we vote to remove people from the CSM?
|
Jangotat
Minmatar Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:26:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Dr Valeri
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
Great, minutes after I posted my "positive view"-post...
I check back and find this...after my positive post /facepalm
Well the fact remains for those of us that have wanted resolution, which I personally think 90% of players involved have wanted, we need to take a breath and see what this weekend brings. Let us just hope this guy is spouting off his own opinion of what the direction should be. If not, and he is just mouthing the actual company position? There will be a whole bunch of us starting over in a new game.
|
Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:38:00 -
[414]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 28/06/2011 18:39:19
Originally by: Jangotat
Originally by: Dr Valeri
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
We have not been heared
We have been ignored and played
Great, minutes after I posted my "positive view"-post...
I check back and find this...after my positive post /facepalm
Well the fact remains for those of us that have wanted resolution, which I personally think 90% of players involved have wanted, we need to take a breath and see what this weekend brings. Let us just hope this guy is spouting off his own opinion of what the direction should be. If not, and he is just mouthing the actual company position? There will be a whole bunch of us starting over in a new game.
quoted directly from google translator:
John says that the games production as CCP can not bring such a statement, but asserts that it will never be able to buy a victory in EVE Online, designed to be both.
Don't just selectively pick a line, take the entire sentence damnit. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
|
Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:39:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Chainfall cross posting this - from the vote of no confidence thread.
Originally by: Fromancia Here are some news J=n H÷r=dal J=nasson COO - CCP confirms that they will never say that they will not sell game changing stuff in the aur store. He also says that he is not worried that many players are going to quit. MBL News service Icelandic
Yep, we were heard. And ignored. I guess Hilmar was all serious when he said "Stay the course".
So we shouldn't worry about unsubbing or rioting or bad press or anything else. CCP isn't worried and they must know, because they are awesome, right?!
|
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:44:00 -
[416]
I love their business tactic. Charge Eve players more for less, try to make 2 games they can't afford, disregard Eve players quitting, continue to not be able to afford other 2 games.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell they're trying to do.
|
Kirika Misono
The Eiken Club
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:49:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Nishachara
SO SAY WE ALL!
LOL No, so says a group of loudmouths that greifed everyone else and threw thier weight around. Again, how are you different from LULSEC again?
Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
|
Janos Saal
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:53:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Janos Saal on 28/06/2011 19:53:00
Originally by: Nishachara Again, how are you different from LULSEC again?
We pay CCP's wages.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:57:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Janos Saal Edited by: Janos Saal on 28/06/2011 19:53:00
Originally by: Nishachara Again, how are you different from LULSEC again?
We pay CCP's wages.
No you don't.
You quit.
Go away.
Mr Epeen
|
Elrica bloodbane
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:58:00 -
[420]
translated by google from islandic Talk amongst key
"Transparency is one of the basic values of workers and the CCP in the newsletter include the views of employees and managers who are used to form the overall company. Once information was played on the internet players were angry statements from the context that led to even greater anger among the players. The same thing happened with the content of emails sent to Hilmar. "Jerry said.
The third issue that has a lot of anger olli= players is that they require management to certify that the CCP will not be able to buy practical things, "functional" with money in the future, so people will be able to buy a victory. Democratically elected counsel will meet this week
John says that the games production as CCP can not bring such a statement, but asserts that it will never be able to buy a victory in EVE Online, designed to be both.
CCP has called for their democratically elected expect players from all over the world this week which will be discussed ways of how the introduction of products for sale in EVE will be presented.
That way players will encounter a society is most comfortable with, and press releases will be sent out subsequently.
John does not particularly concerned that many people will quit playing the game because of changes in product mix in the game.
|
|
Imryn Xaran
Caldari Coherent Light Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:03:00 -
[421]
I think it is a complete waste of time going to iceland because at this point in time CCP is probably locked into their current course by ties much stronger than loyalty to the EVE community - money.
They have made financial commitments that they have to honour, and part of those commitments will have been to submit a buisness plan for approval. They don't have the option to significantly modify that business plan without renegotiating the terms of their loan, and if they do that they run the risk of the loan being called due.
To be honest, we should have seen this coming a while ago. CCP used to say that they thought they could keep EVE going forever, but when was the last time we heard that? Other games companies use a buisness model where they invest in developing an MMO, market it and develope it while the player base is high, then milk it dry and drop it when player interest declines, and move on to the next project.
CCP didn't do that; but then they did.
EVE subscriptions are now paying to service the loans that are paying for the developement of two other games, and obviously it isn't enough. On top of that we can see that most of CCP's developers are working on these other games and not on EVE, except where EVE can be used as a test bed for features in the other games, such as the whole carbon UI / WIS thing. It brings nothing to EVE, but is crucial for both the other games.
Can anyone remember the last expansion that actually made any fundamental changes to EVE gameplay?
I have no hope whatsoever that the CSM can make any headway in these negotiations because I don't believe that CCP has any choices left - they have painted themselves into corner and have no choice but to "stay the course" and hope they can raise enough money through MT to survive.
3 accounts unsubbed. |
Mylene Fury
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:14:00 -
[422]
Heard? Yes.... And then ignored...........
|
Mechero
Gallente Razorback Industrial
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:18:00 -
[423]
I think Keanu said it best. "Whoa" Pew Pew! |
Nizran L'Crit
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:22:00 -
[424]
White Tree, this question is directed at you. Will you please, please, please speak with them about actually spending a much larger portion of dev time in creating new, exciting content for the spaceship game we all know and love, not the space barbies WiS which, while cool, is being implemented before they even get their core game fixed?
They need to reallocate money and time into providing us new experiences in a timely fashion and then use the rest of the development money to work on the other games. I realize that they are trying to expand their company, but in the process, it feels like they're thumbing their nose at us by delivering sub-par, horrible content in the process...and we are their entire revenue at this point.
MT be damned, if they don't make a P2W atmosphere, I could care less if they have $600 monocles, it doesn't make me want to purchase it. My problem is the direction they are moving development-wise in not making EVE an experience that continues with new content. Please for the love of god, try to make them understand that a lot of us don't care about the price of a monocle, we care about our money not being put back into the product we are using. That's what made me cancel my sub and will make me resub if they start providing that content.
BTW, a bug fix IS NOT NEW CONTENT :P
Do that and you have my vote for life. -.-! I wanna be L337!!! |
TK420
Caldari Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:29:00 -
[425]
The reason I respect CCP is because even when all the industry is going to ****, they held their ground. CCP created and maintained a game that was for the hardcore gamers out there that didn't want instant gratification. They respected their loyal customers and didn't force some bull**** store that took away from the content that I am paying for.
Is that going to change? Is CCP going to take the path that SOE took EQ2 on? What choice do I have then? I loved EQ2, as I love playing EVE, but if they are headed down the same path then I am required to quit.
I respect that CCP has had a long history of catering to the MMO audience that I belong to, and they've been rewarded with my loyalty because of it. If that is coming to an end, then so is my subscription.
|
General Xenophon
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:38:00 -
[426]
Please use this as a guideline at the very least: What we want
naturally it won't represent what EVERYONE wants, but then again the people who don't care what happens to Eve, don't matter.
|
Stormchyld
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:54:00 -
[427]
Originally by: derivativo
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
+1
...+1 .. very well put. after the COO gave an interview to some local newspaper (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541933) I see the trip to iceland as a PR stunt as well. I hope the translation is wrong |
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:58:00 -
[428]
Originally by: General Xenophon Please use this as a guideline at the very least: What we want
naturally it won't represent what EVERYONE wants, but then again the people who don't care what happens to Eve, don't matter.
Those are really just the straw(s) that broke the camels back.
The problem is so much of eve has been abandoned so they could assign all the devs to incarna, dust, evegate, world of darkness etc. And we get this utter crap in incarna and comments about how they want to ruin the player run economy for mts.
When are they going to reassign those 70 devs that are working on incarna and get them reassigned to things like a broken sov system, broken low sec, broken fw, crap ui etc ?
Lol they forgot to have someone even attend the fw roundtable at fanfest!
Many quit when they said it would be 18 months before they worked on any of this. Now it seems clear it will be much longer before ccp takes an interset in the inspace part of eve.
Yes IÆm abandoning eve but CCP abandoned it first.
|
Amar Azaph
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:59:00 -
[429]
Feedback from Iceland will be- "We had a long and heated discussion with the CSM. After torturous negotiations we have decided to have a phased roll out of items." Smart move- The CSM provides CCP with a mandate by virtue of their having a meeting. That way, CCP can announce to all and sundry- "See, we have the players on board, CSM agrees with us, the other are just a small minority."
Sent from a campfire using smoke signals. |
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:03:00 -
[430]
Edited by: Viking Sven on 28/06/2011 21:03:34
Originally by: Amar Azaph Feedback from Iceland will be- "We had a long and heated discussion with the CSM. After torturous negotiations we have decided to have a phased roll out of items." Smart move- The CSM provides CCP with a mandate by virtue of their having a meeting. That way, CCP can announce to all and sundry- "See, we have the players on board, CSM agrees with us, the other are just a small minority."
I think as thickheaded as CCP is, they'll say vanity-only MT items will exist but no MT items that will give an advantage in any way. It's their only shot as saving Eve, really.
That said, even with that result I'm keeping my accounts unsubbed. At this point, it's beyond just that simple in game issue. Their entire company has basically insulted the players, be it Hilmar or Zulu, or Pann and the ridiculously delayed/non-existent responses. I'm sure as **** not going to pay their salaries so I can continue to play a game that's stagnated and getting by with a 'bare minimum' mentality from its owners.
|
|
Elayae
Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:05:00 -
[431]
I think the community has a better PR manager then CCP.
|
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:06:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Elayae I think the community has a better PR manager then CCP.
That's saying very little.
|
OHU812
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:08:00 -
[433]
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
Awesome
|
Or'ild Dral Utrigas
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:11:00 -
[434]
I see Eve turning into one of the other games that involves a cash economy(Entropia Universe). People have and will spend ridiculous amounts of money for virtual items and CCP wants to cash in on this. At some point ISK will be converted to a new single currency that is more in line with the direction that they are heading. 100 million+ ISK for a jacket is silly, but convert that to 1000(insert name of new currency) and you will have everyone lining up for it. Don't have 1000(new currency), deposit $10 or $100 into your account at a 10 to 1 ratio and suddenly you can start to afford these vanity items. Microtransactions at its finest. A safe market to sell your items to someone else and the ability to withdraw funds for cash at some point and you will have a non stop cash machine for them.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:12:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Elayae I think the community has a better PR manager then CCP.
I think the 'community' has been drinking sea water.
Mr Epeen
|
BlackCobalt
Coretech Industries Redrum Fleet
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:18:00 -
[436]
i like what CCP is doing with the walk around station or Captains Quarters atm even tho I don't use it. And as for the micro stuff maybe CCP can rethink there venue for it. Instead of having clothing and such in player market side bar wait till the complete station walk around in done and put up small npc vendor booths on stations.
This would keep micro stuff active and on the sidelines and also out of player driven market.
|
Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:18:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Elayae I think the community has a better PR manager then CCP.
I think the 'community' has been drinking sea water.
Mr Epeen
Do you think you're part of the community?
|
Hesperius
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:21:00 -
[438]
Originally by: White Tree We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
They have cots at CCP?
|
centurion zulu
Phantom Squad Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:25:00 -
[439]
You will accomplish nothing. CSM's never have.
This is all for show, to get the peeps to quiet down and hopefully this will blow over.
This is a business. There trying a little politics with this meeting is all there doing.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:26:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: White Tree We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
They have cots at CCP?
OMFG YES!!
AND THEY PAID FOR THEM WITH OUR SUB MONEY!!!
RISE UP PEOPLE!!
MAKE NEW THREADS!!
TIME TO STICK IT TO THE MAN!!
EVERYONE QUIT ... again.
Mr Epeen
|
|
Imryn Xaran
Caldari Coherent Light Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:31:00 -
[441]
Originally by: BlackCobalt i like what CCP is doing with the walk around station or Captains Quarters atm even tho I don't use it. And as for the micro stuff maybe CCP can rethink there venue for it. Instead of having clothing and such in player market side bar wait till the complete station walk around in done and put up small npc vendor booths on stations.
This would keep micro stuff active and on the sidelines and also out of player driven market.
There is no need for CQ or full body avatars to implement private stores or even casinos, and it could have been done years ago if they wanted. This is all just a beta test for WoD.
|
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:34:00 -
[442]
Edited by: Viking Sven on 28/06/2011 21:34:36 I don't really buy the **** about the art department. I think they're part of the problem tbh. What visual updates have we seen in Eve recently?
-WiS/Character creator. -Updated 2 ship models (maller/scorpion) -Turrets -Nebulae
Hell, they even had future ship designs done by the community.
What have they likely been up late doing? ****ing Dust/WoD. What's been paying their salaries? Eve.
|
Susitna
Caldari The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:34:00 -
[443]
I do not want to view CCP as the enemy. I want to view them as reliable partner in this game of EVE that I enjoy. However, CCPs recent actions concerning micro transaction and implementation of Incarna threaten the partnership. Many of us have invested significant time and money in this game based upon the current funding model -the subscription. We have continued to play this game on the assumption that MT for functional items would never come into a mature subscription based game like eve.
CCP wants to add MTs. Incarna appears as nothing but a simple interface tool to add MT to the game. MT for functional items in a subscription based game is a game breaker for me. I will not pay a subscription and then be forced to pay to win. Our subscription should cover the price of admission to access ALL functional items in the game such as implants, modes, ships, boosters, or faction.
I have no issue with MT for Vanity items. In fact, I might actually buy a paint job for a ship or two if the price is reasonable. I suspect paint jobs could be a significant revenue source because thousands of ships explode every day. Of course the price would have to be cheap. They would make their cash based on volume.
I hope CSM and CCP can come to an agreement that restores my trust that CCP is a reliable gaming partner. If not and CCP insists on changing the payment model on a mature game like I EVE. I will never buy another product from them.
|
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:45:00 -
[444]
Edited by: Vandrion on 28/06/2011 21:45:40 I don't think the entire CSM has heard to be honest......
Mittens is taking the CCP line on the Fearless newsletter in his article HERE.
"Greed Is Good, But Company Memo Leaks Are Better: A few weeks ago, certain individuals acquired a copy of the May issue of CCPÆs company newsletter, ôFearlessö which featured a picture of Gordon Gekko and titled ôGreed is Good?ö The focus of the magazine was entirely devoted to the topic of microtransactions, with various CCPers opining on their utility or where the company could go with them in DUST 514, EVE or World of Darkness. "
Only 2 sections of that entire newsletter were commentary and opinion from Devs. Download and read page 9 of the newsletter HERE. That newsletter was in no way, shape or form designed to create "discussion" on the subject of MT. Read the article titled:
"EVE: Delivering the goods: virtual sales in Incarna"
So no White Tree.... The CSM hasn't heard the players when the Chairman starts to spew the company line in articles.......
|
Manos Heimenbarger
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:48:00 -
[445]
I place a small amount of hope in this meeting, only because there is no hope anywhere else. It's only natural that we are so distrusting, and maybe even a little paranoid, at this point, considering what CCP has done in the past. Even if CCP does make good here, I imagine it will take a long time for the wounds to heal.
I just ask that the CSM do their best to make an honest effort.
|
Dr Hsu
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:54:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: White Tree We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
They have cots at CCP?
OMFG YES!!
AND THEY PAID FOR THEM WITH OUR SUB MONEY!!!
RISE UP PEOPLE!!
MAKE NEW THREADS!!
TIME TO STICK IT TO THE MAN!!
EVERYONE QUIT ... again.
Mr Epeen
bro, you should take a chill pill and chillax, you are getting mad trolled by all this. |
pipvac
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:55:00 -
[447]
Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 28/06/2011 15:09:38
Originally by: White Tree If this is just a simple PR move then yeah, we're going to be equally upset but I maintain hope that it isn't. That's my job broseph, to keep hope alive.
I'm sorry, White Tree, but I see no logical reason to give either the CSM or CCP the benefit of the doubt at this time. CCP has clearly demonstrated over the past two years it either doesn't understand what players want or doesn't care. Either situation is rather depressing and there is every possibility that personnel changes will have to occur in order to bring about the kind of shift in focus and design philosophy the players are obviously seeking here. And without significant external pressure, there is zero chance CCP will elect to make such changes on their own simply because "they've heard us." It's naive to believe that.
Second, as your initial post makes clear, you view these problems from a far different perspective than the vast majority of EVE players. For us, CCP is a company we purchase entertainment services from and with which we have a common investment of time, energy, and money. But for you they are your friends and drinking buddies. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but this is one of the primary problems with the entire CSM system as it currently exists. By flying CSM members to Iceland and turning the process into a drunkfest, CCP turns the CSM into a travesty and it's obvious the members become beholden to CCP very quickly. You can deny that all you want, but your denials will fall on deaf ears because we all see it a thousand times a day in the world of politics and the CSM is hardly immune to the same petty conflicts of interest.
Frankly, the entire process appears to be little more than a PR stunt designed to keep EVE Online in the pages of the gaming press. And I say that as someone who championed the idea of the CSM and has tirelessly defended the concepts behind this type of developer/player relationship. But somewhere along the line the relationship went off the rails. It appears to many that CCP is managed like a frat house full of college boys more interested in partying with friends than doing the day to day work that will keep EVE on the cutting edge of the MMO scene. There's absolutely nothing unique or cool about flying to Iceland and getting drunk. There is, however, something unique and cool about EVE Online, and protecting the ideas that made it great is what we're interested in.
Finally, we don't need you to tell us to chill out. The CSM didn't see these problems coming, nor has the CSM/CCP interaction been successful in changing CCP's direction and thinking. We don't need you to tell CCP why we're upset. Trust me, they've heard us! What we need the CSM to do (or at least attempt to do) is help bring about the kind of paradigm shift in thinking that will return EVE to its roots. Short of that, anything that comes out of this meeting will be little more than damage control and spin mixed with some minor concessions. If that's all the CSM is capable of then you're wasting our time. In short, the CSM did little to head off these problems and it did nothing to help generate the energy behind this virtual "revolution." Bottom line: You didn't help start it so don't presume to tell us when to end it.
Stop partying with CCP and acting like they're your buddies. We elected you to represent our EVE Online interests, not represent us at the pub. Our collective outrage and actions have given the CSM a golden opportunity to finally speak with authority to CCP. Don't waste it! Or simply admit there's little you can do and stay out of the way.
+1 I really couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you. Desperately seeking originality since the first "can I have your stuff" since 2003. |
Psychlo
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:01:00 -
[448]
Just a thought. . .
Our whole group has removed all our market orders, stopped production, stopped buying supplies and basically shutdown. For those of us waiting to see the results of this CSM thing, might I suggest doing the same. Maybe if the rest of the players suddenly realize who builds cap ships, tech II and Tech III and all the other really nice parts they may have a vested interest in all of this suddenly. The old school long time eve players also happen to be the buyers, the sellers and the producers. A little in game market chaos would be another pressure point.
|
Stormchyld
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:06:00 -
[449]
.. a better translation of the recent newspaper article that the COO did.
http://www.failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2434&start=940
|
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:20:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: White Tree We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
They have cots at CCP?
OMFG YES!!
AND THEY PAID FOR THEM WITH OUR SUB MONEY!!!
RISE UP PEOPLE!!
MAKE NEW THREADS!!
TIME TO STICK IT TO THE MAN!!
EVERYONE QUIT ... again.
Mr Epeen
That lake of Koolaid youÆve prepared? Go jump in it. Other people have standards.
|
|
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:23:00 -
[451]
Only a complete backdown from MT beyond vanity will see my sub retained beyond August.
It's hard to be patient when they can't/won't answer a simple yes/no question.
|
Merivel Mar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:41:00 -
[452]
They haven't heed anything the CSM has brought fourth and now you want us to believe this matter will be resolved thru the CSM? please!
|
Cunane Jeran
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:44:00 -
[453]
+1 Well said tbh.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:01:00 -
[454]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Just so you know White Tree, this is a time where you MUST play hard-ball with CCP. No more concessions that serve only to undermine the values of EVE ('temporary' golden scorpions - 'vanity-only' MT). I've completely written off the CSM by this point, but there are a ton of people who haven't yet. I hope you don't disappoint them once again.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
|
Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:14:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 28/06/2011 23:14:18 whitewolf and other csm¦s (and yes i did vote)
In one way its like CCP forcing another game on everyone when they broke the you will still be able to spin your ship promise. It also seems that they are financing it though pay if you want the full experience participation route which to them probably makes sense at board level as it must seem like a different game that they think they deserve payment for when really its a proof of concept and development of Carbon for WoD.
... and we all just know that the Quafe booster give away is linked in to the NeX, its irresistible...
A Sand Box or Litter Tray. |
Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:16:00 -
[456]
apologies, I've not read the other 16 pages here, but with all due respect White Tree, we couldn't have been clearer about our concerns and anger in CCP Pann's thread, which we were told would be answered in full (still waiting). Then we were told everyone was in meetings all day, and at the end of the day, we got the very short side, poorly written, insulting dev blog by CCP Zulu.
Now, CCP Zulu did apologize, but if the company put all of their time and effort into one guy, without anyone else reading it, without anyone else preparing a statement, then it meant they had not actual understanding or interest in talking to us. CCP has time and time again shown an utter inability to communicate with us, and the email from Hilmar really shows a top level management attitude of **** the players, if they want to quit, let them.
If CCP folds, they fold. They've had years to fix basic errors and their response has been now market data doesn't support that fixing bugs sells better than new content, which is such an insult, I don't know why I stayed as long as I did, oh right, it was CCP Zulu promising NO MT for advantage ... oops.
I'd love to keep playing eve, but when we can barely get 500 words out of CCP and NO statements other than CSM is coming, CSM is coming, it shows they are truly incompetent. If THEY give me anything of value in writing, then, I'll resub, that value needs to prove they read anything we've said, as I thought the community was EXTREMELY constructive in many threads including Pann's thread and the eve24 news thread.
Honestly CCP blew it twice with Zulu, I can't believe they put everything into one guy's correspondence, and it is too bad they set CCP Zulu up to fail as they did.
As a CSM rep, I'd ask you to STRONGLY urge CCP to put out a Video of you guys asking them OUR questions, and getting their responses, it can be scripted, but let's increase that bandwidth a little.
Insulted by CCP, AG ================================================== EVE DARK AGES - A new MT expansion for Eve online. |
Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:08:00 -
[457]
Go, go, gadget CSM!
I really, really hope that the cross-armed bullying we have received from CCP in the past weeks is not indicative to what's going to happen on Iceland this time around: that CCP will not try to make you now sell their bad ideas.
I really, really hope that all is actually honey and rainbows and that the events of past weeks are a result of bad wording, bad timing, and bad choice of release scope.
Make blue bars for CSM posts |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:12:00 -
[458]
Parlay?
Pirates of the Caribbean, Parlay?
|
Gharr Ronuken
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:16:00 -
[459]
Sounds reasonable, but I hold out little hope that this situation will improve. Good luck CCP, you'll need it.
|
P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:20:00 -
[460]
GL
|
|
Hot Cougar
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:28:00 -
[461]
Two Things...
1. CCP needs to understand that it created this sandbox environment and unique player base on the idea that 1 person can change the the direction of the whole game. This is one of their TOP selling points, that even as a n00b you can turn the tide. They need to understand that a lot of 1 persons have stood up to change the direction of the game. IF they ignore that, they ignore a core value they sell, they lose all integrity.
2. I swear this is like a marriage. We feel (The Players) have felt like CCP has been sleeping around on us spending all there money on a lover (DUST and WOD) and ignoring us. They then proceeding to then further insult us by having there sleazy lover move in (Incarna). They then have the audacity to by angry at us for wanting a divorce (unsubscribing) and think its our fault for the whole situation. (CCP's responses and leaks.) They don't understand how we could leave them after all they have done for us. REALLY?!?!?!
CSM, you have ONE shot at mending this marriage, otherwise its off to divorce court. Oh yeah, and we don't pay spousal support.
|
Carthaage
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:00:00 -
[462]
Edited by: Carthaage on 29/06/2011 05:02:03 Edited by: Carthaage on 29/06/2011 05:01:08 Whilst I have little faith In the CSM, I Do hope you guys use our Community's in game actions and your voices to really impress upon CCP what we want OUR game to be.
My Issues/opinion:
Incarna: I come from an FPS background and I believe Incarna can do alot for the game. It could be an excellent introduction to a game that's typically considered a 'spreadsheet' game. The problem I see with it is, right now there is little to no functionality to Incarna; beyond a pretty little room and an avatar it's just an inconvinance during docking and undocking. I also believe it should be an optional feature as some computers just can't handle the GPU load.
Bottom line: With some functionality, Incarna could be interesting. As is, it's an unwieldy inconvinance.
Noble Exchange: I am totally against the noble exchange. If it *has* to exist, it should only be for vanity items. End story.
Bottom line: I don't want this feature; if it's a must, I want a promise that nothing sold on it will effect the game. If these issues arn't resolved to my satisfaction by July 1st, Then I will not renew my accounts. CCP already surpassed their grace period by not following up with Pann's post - I will not stick around if they do it again.
-Carthaage
|
Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:14:00 -
[463]
No disrespect intended, but the CSM is just a sop thrown at the playerbase to calm down the T20 incident.
Since then, it's become a convenient shield between CCP and the players.
Right now, you are being called purely to give time to let people calm down, and to give them some time to try and spin it in a better light.
Kinda ****ed Seleene isn't going, but hoping Mittani gives CCP 'what for' and bends them over the table until he gets us PROPER answers, while refusing to be deflected by fluff, metrics, synergies or other such waffle. |
Mercedes Bens
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:19:00 -
[464]
Good luck up there
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:38:00 -
[465]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 29/06/2011 05:47:20
I'm kind of confused as to why the CSM was called to Iceland.
I see the CSM as a resource for CCP when they want to gather player feedback, and I can't imagine they haven't gotten a feel for the player response to MT at this point. Though at times I must admit it seems I spend more time interacting with the community than CCP do.
I don't see the CSM as acting as a voice for CPP. That's what devblogs and such are for. Having the CSM tell everyone that everything is gonna be okay is meaningless. It has to come direct from CCP to carry any weight, and to make them accountable.
Personally, I don't care about MT prices or store content, though I'd probably buy corporate or custom ship paint schemes for every ship I owned, if the price was micro enough to not make me have second thoughts when I think of it blowing-up.
Me and my 5 accounts really only care that "pay MORE to win" never comes to EVE (vanity items only), and that the MT store operate from trade-ins and/or BPC just like LP stores. Don't screw industry or the market!
... Though I'd also be curious to know whatever happened to faction POS drops that have gone AWOL since at least Dominion.
|
Viking Sven
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:48:00 -
[466]
That's because CSM isn't so much a voice of the players to CCP, but usually the reverse of that. They are CCP's voice to the players
CCP has hundreds of pages of forum posts on the players' perspectives if they wanted them.
|
Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:55:00 -
[467]
It's actually a time like this, when CCP messes up bigtime, that I'm actually very happy that the whole CSM is made up out of Null sec bigwigs. While these are argueably some of the biggest *******s in the game, who are indirectly responsible for more 'grief' than anybody else, they're also the people who really CARE about this game. Why else would they be out there, commanding thousands of minions to go forth and grief, why would they spend their time doing all those things that people seem to forget that being a big corp CEO means. Like making sure everyone knows what's up, deal with drama's and internal squabbles, and the gods know what else. They care about this game, and they're prime examples of what constitues Eve. I'm quite confident they will be playing hardball with CCP on this one. And CCP WILL be listening to them, if not, then they REALLY lost it, because if the CSM comes out of that meeting with a thumbs down, that ****storm we saw before, was just the beginning of the end.
|
Fuamnach
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:17:00 -
[468]
First, the horse is already out of the barn with PLEX. No sense yelling to close it now. Once there is PLEX, real money is buying in-game items and in-game advantage. But let's not pretend that's anything new, as real money has always found ways to buy in-game advantage. Better that real world money go in CCP's pocket, where it in part finances further development, than to 3rd party farmers, with no benefit to the general player base. There is not and never has been a true "sandbox" world and economy utterly separate from the real world and real world economy.
Second, in light of the above, it should be clear that the line in the sand over micro-transactions cannot reasonably be drawn between vanity and war-fighting items such as ships and equipment. Anyone with cash can already buy PLEX, sell that for ISK and buy all the war-fighting items his or her RL wallet can afford. Buying such items with AURUM or even dollars or yen from a NeX vendor changes nothing...well, changes nothing worth such weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over.
The critical distinction, the flash point lies elsewhere. For what makes PLEX an acceptable, "sandbox" enhancing solution to the real problem of 3rd party ISK farmers is that the in-game value of PLEX floats on the ISK market; that ISK can purchase and set the in-game value of PLEX. The danger is that AURUM, which at this point still has, via PLEX, an indirect ISK market value, will develop into a means to buy items and in-game advantage that will NOT be marketable within EVE's "sandbox" economy, the ISK market. The threat is not that AURUM will buy "gold ammo" but that one day ISK may not, even indirectly, buy AURUM; thereby taking "gold ammo" beyond the reach and valuation of the in-game economy. At that point, not before, EVE will have become something radically other than what it has been.
Note that the worst ideas in the leaked "Fearless" circular are bad ideas because they are bad ideas. They change the dynamics of EVE independent of the question of micro-transactions. For example, selling faction standing changes what faction standing has meant even if sold for ISK or given away, say in a lottery. Paying corporations for achieving sovereignty is a similarly bad idea, bad whether paid in ISK, AURUM, dollars or yen.
In sum, make no mistake about it, CCP must make more money to survive and prosper (and EVE and us with it); and the entire industry is moving toward micro-transactions because those are increasingly the terms on which the global game-playing public is willing to pay for its pleasures. The true task of the CSM meeting with CCP is the same as that under discussion in the much maligned Fearless memo: to figure out how to manage the incorporation of micro-transactions in ways that enhance rather than do damage to the "sandbox," the "virtual world" that is EVE.
|
Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:22:00 -
[469]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 29/06/2011 06:22:24
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 29/06/2011 05:52:36
I'm kind of confused as to why the CSM was called to Iceland.
CCP wants to introduce micro-transactions. As much as possible. Now obviously they rushed ahead a little bit too far.
The CSM is now needed to determine the minimum amount of back-pedalling that is required to quell the community. After all, CCP still wants to have as much micro-transaction as possible and not give up any possibilities for additional revenue unnecessarily.
So basically this will be a sales pitch to the CSM: Make them understand which micro-transactions are "okay" and "necessary" and then the community should follow.
|
Alissa Solette
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:04:00 -
[470]
Originally by: White Tree So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.
So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.
So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
A few problems I have with this:
- do I know you and why should I care? - my trust in CCP is even more broken then in the CSM - words are cheap (especially words from marketing scum like most of the bastards here on the forums) - if CCP wants me as a customer again then they'll need to do more then get their overpaid citybank scum to write a dev blog. I've already signed up 3 accounts on Perpetuum Online so CCP will need to convince me why they once again deserve my money.
Firing Zulu/Mr. Citibank and the rest of the expensive but worthless management would go a long way in restoring trust.
|
|
pipvac
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:54:00 -
[471]
Never before has a post by a CSM better illustrated why their role in communication with CCP is completely broken, and not representative of the greater community's concerns or aspirations. I hold no hope or any positive expectations for the this meeting, and have no confidence whatsoever in what the CSM can deliver or influence in the process.
Please stop flogging this dead horse. CCP can choose to effectively communicate with the community if they wish/choose to. They just have to put this CSM nonsense to one side and get on with it. Desperately seeking originality since the first "can I have your stuff" since 2003. |
Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:31:00 -
[472]
Originally by: White Tree So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.
So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.
Muhahahaha you gonna do what?? LOL You are either delusional or asleep in the EVE world. Wake up and come back to the REAL WORLD! You can't do anything (if you actually wanted to do anything in the first place).
I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.
^^ READ! ^^
|
Kiwi Miner
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 09:11:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Kiwi Miner on 29/06/2011 09:11:56 And now we here that csm is there only to find away to convey the changes to the players in an acceptable manner in other words spin it for ccp so they do not lose so many of there cash cows. let us all mooooooooooo for Hilmar Petursson
I wonder if Hilmar Petursson remembers his quote ôThe evolution of EVE Online continues in large part because of the feedback we receive from subscribers |
Elune Ferret
Gallente United Empires Asset
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:03:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Angeliq
Muhahahaha you gonna do what?? LOL You are either delusional or asleep in the EVE world. Wake up and come back to the REAL WORLD! You can't do anything (if you actually wanted to do anything in the first place).
I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.
^^ READ! ^^
Funny document. It raises an issue: Would it be possible to buy CCP?
I know it's outragous, but hey so's the game. What is needed to simply buy the game and remove all shareholders but the players, and make the CSM being the uisness board as well? 10 billion Ç ? It's just a number. If you can think it. It can be done, pending resources.
To outline: 350k accounts at 135 Ç pr year = 47,25 million Ç Double subscribtions for 1 year could potentially raise close to 50 million Ç. 20 of those are 1 billion Ç, so 200 and we've got 10B Ç for investing in to ownership.
Turn it upside down even: Those quitting, or not resubbing, place the money in shares rather then subscribtions. That's 135Ç pr account doing it. Too this 135Ç number consider the effect on the shares when moving lost revenue directly to shares. It should from what little I know of econimics result in the 135Ç being worth even more.
My subscribtions are paid for untill may I believe, taking a year or 2 vacation to do this and regain control of what I'd actually call my game seems reasonable. But I won't change much being one 1 person... (by the way I can easy make my ingame affairs selfsustainable for 24 months)
Still waiting for ingame voice, with voice mods. |
Imryn Xaran
Caldari Coherent Light Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:33:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel ... They've had years to fix basic errors and their response has been now market data doesn't support that fixing bugs sells better than new content, which is such an insult, I don't know why I stayed as long as I did, oh right, it was CCP Zulu promising NO MT for advantage ... oops.
You would think that CCP would have realised by now that there are no other games like EVE, and any market data gathered from other games simply does not apply here
|
Mushimushi XOXO
Hugs'n Kisses
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:51:00 -
[476]
Edited by: Mushimushi XOXO on 29/06/2011 16:51:08
Originally by: Angeliq
I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.
^^ READ! ^^
You should have made the huge red emphasized words in there even bigger and blinking, to make it look more legit.
Sorry, even if it¦s 100% true I won¦t read something that was formatted like if the author was wearing his underpants on his head.
|
Jeffree Star
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 19:35:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Mushimushi XOXO
...I won¦t read something that was formatted like if the author was wearing his underpants on his head.
Oi, isn't that like 90% of the posts on here?
|
Dograzor
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:44:00 -
[478]
Well said mr. White Tree :) -
"We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value" |
Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery Gryphon League
|
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:46:00 -
[479]
This was a very thoughtful and articulate post White Tree, and I'm willing to give CCP one more chance. However, this is the last chance. I still have friends in Eve that I am not willing to part with, however anything short of a complete rollback of micro-transactions will seriously make me reconsider staying subbed. I will have to make that call when the smoke clears, but I'm not holding my breath. Alliance Owned Stargates
|
Ki'va
|
Posted - 2011.07.28 16:53:00 -
[480]
Well I must one of the few that can understand why CCP have done what they did to Zulu and Eve in general. Zulu did a good job, so good infact that they left him to do the work. Nobody else would want to stand up and ultimatly put their own neck on the line. But this happens, seen it happen time and time again as I also work within the gaming industry.
Someone mentioned above 'greed is good' which was prevalent in CCP. Spreading themselves out too thinly maintaining/updating Eve, working on Dust 512 and that other MMO. So I can understand why they introduced over priced items. Some people are stupid and will buy it and thats up to them, I just dont understand what the whole fuss was about.
Eve is a ground braking game even more so with their plans for a multi-platform game using Dust 512.
On one hand I hope it happens and Eve lives as I've been an Eve player since july 2003.
On the other hand I hope CCP die as I work for one of their competitors.
|
|
Duckface Killah
|
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:35:00 -
[481]
I find it telling that people have apparently been massively gaming the "Eve is Real"-sharing system. CCP lies to the playerbase, and talks about them behind closed doors, like they're cattle. And somehow they expect the players to play fair in return...
|
Takamori Maruyama
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:39:00 -
[482]
The problem with the cattle logic, is that the eve players tends to be more mature . So its like shooting in your own foot if you are doing your business model based on cattle , with that kind of costumer line. Works fine with WoW , CoD etc etc, because the base age is like 12-14 years old, so they don't have a notion how video games worked back in 90¦s
|
OHU812
|
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:54:00 -
[483]
Edited by: OHU812 on 28/07/2011 17:56:07
Not even went to the website and probably never will tbh.
I've about burned myself out on worrying about the ineveitable.
Just thought I'd respond to a few more "EVE is burning" threads before I delete this account.
Loved the game but enough of the following:
CCP's silence and refusal to respond in an adequate and professional manner is good enough indication to me. Instead they waste money by flying a useless bunch of bags of water to their HQ to talk about a bunch of stuff the playerbase isn't privy too.
Sounded good until they come out of the meeting with no more than they went in with. Smoke and mirrors.
Now... not only do we get nothing in return for the wasted money on tickets, beer, motel rooms, and the like. We have at least one of those asshats telling us he doesn't even care about something MANY of us do care about.
Now that's all a drop in a bucket until you add all of the past actions/failures of CCP & CSM. Not to mention a few notable incidents of past times. -IE T20
Anywhoo... Deleting 0HU812 later today. I'm about burned out on the whole thing tbqh. Since I have no other MMO experience until recent I can't collectively for sure say that there hasn't been incidents like T20 in other games. Curious to know if there has been and would like to know the response from the player base.
Yes I was a CCP fanboi for many years, after a while everyone gets fed up with failed content and broken promises.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: [one page] |