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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:57:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ms Freak Jade,
Sorry for hijacking your thread but there is also a somewhat shorter (althought your thoughts are a good read) list of things the community want addressing and why here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538210
But yes - this whole situation is silly and can be resolved relatively easily.
Good thread too ... I read that earlier and its excellent.
Join the Revolution!
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto how's roleplaying a gallente hooker working out for you, dude?
I'm guessing you are pro mandatory CQ then
For dudes that roleplay a female gallente hooker, yes. You'll learn to love it.
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:01:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ms Freak on 28/06/2011 19:03:59 Edited by: Ms Freak on 28/06/2011 19:01:41
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Ms Freak Jade,
Sorry for hijacking your thread but there is also a somewhat shorter (althought your thoughts are a good read) list of things the community want addressing and why here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538210
But yes - this whole situation is silly and can be resolved relatively easily.
Good thread too ... I read that earlier and its excellent.
Would you be able to direct a few of the CSM at my thread please? It may assist them, if not no biggie, but i would like to know they have at least seen it so that the people that have posted can know thier views have been heard directly?
Thanks
Edit: Fail posting
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Swearte Widfarend
Gallente Aurora Security
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:03:00 -
[64]
Jade, item 1 is quite simple, IMHO.
Many (maybe even yourself) have suggested the simplest option - return the hangar, and add a disembark option directly above Undock. New players start in the CQ, learn to live in the CQ, great, no problem with that at all.
I'd be willing to bet that everyone would eventually disembark - if only to see what it's like. Right now, forcing us into a small room breaks immersion, but more importantly, the "door" wallpaper is a very poor choice of public relations.
Sure, a lot of old bittervets would just sit staring at the hangar. But eventually many of them would disembark, just to see if it's worth it. The problem for CCP is right now it really isn't worth it.
I don't agree about the BPCs for NeX, but I agree about the process (items + Aur). Those NPCs need a job too, and taking our raw materials (or ships) and painting/weaving/manufacturing is a good job for them ûáas long as they use player-generated raw materials.
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RensPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:03:00 -
[65]
I am against any kind of microtransactions including cosmetical only. Every item in that nex shop has to be created by an artist and a 3d modeller. this time spent is not available to the majority of the playerbase. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto For dudes that roleplay a female gallente hooker, yes. You'll learn to love it.
You aren't the brightest tool in the box are you? But all tools have a use and yours is bumping my thread.
Join the Revolution!
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:06:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/06/2011 19:06:52
Originally by: Ms Freak
Would you be able to direct a few of the CSM at my thread please? It may assist them, if not no biggie, but i would like to know they have at least seen it so that the people that have posted can know thier views have been heard directly?
Heh no problem. I will link your thread as well as mine.
Join the Revolution!
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:08:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto For dudes that roleplay a female gallente hooker, yes. You'll learn to love it.
You aren't the brightest tool in the box are you? But all tools have a use and yours is bumping my thread.
How much do you charge for an argentine car wash?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto How much do you charge for an argentine car wash?
Keep bumping.
Join the Revolution!
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Gashblight
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I just read that thread. Translation is a bit dubious via google but you can get the gist. Put it this way - if thats the approach they present to the CSM thursday/friday then New Eden is going to explode.
It's just a sad case of people not wanting to see what's right in front of their face. Granted google translater can be a little dodgy but look at the gap between what is said there, and what you want to hear.
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Krapylius Infamus
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:20:00 -
[71]
I think there may be a way everyone can get what they want...the blueprint for cash, requiring additional manufacturing idea is great, also there's a way to get pay to win items into the game, without breaking it...
dust gear plueprints for aur or plex or whatever they go for, to be used by capsuleers in station fights, and maybe on long term, in boarding actions, against capital ships.
presuably the incarna graphics engine is either identical or at least compatible to the dust engine, so allowing a capsuleer to suit up in uber combat armor, and assault weaponry, would be a fairly simple task.
also it adds extra content to eve, while ccp gets to offer pay for content into the game, without affecting the way eve can be normally played; I.E. you can play an entire eve career, without using this, and not being in any way at a disadvantage.
at the same time you *can* spend your hard earned RL monnyz on this, and probably have a blast, shooting dusties that try to attack your alliance's station (and less of a blast, getting shot by them)
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:20:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gashblight
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I just read that thread. Translation is a bit dubious via google but you can get the gist. Put it this way - if thats the approach they present to the CSM thursday/friday then New Eden is going to explode.
It's just a sad case of people not wanting to see what's right in front of their face. Granted google translater can be a little dodgy but look at the gap between what is said there, and what you want to hear.
Well whats being said is arrogant tosh in the main. What I want to hear is a resolution to all this because I'm not really happy to see the only genuinely sandbox mmo die a horible death. But I'm happy to wait till friday to light up the barricades again. Its what - 3 days away?
Between you and me I'm sure there will need to be some more protests and PR backlash before this gets resolved but having the CSM go and talk face to face and look into the eyes of CCP when discussing their future plans will help us know where we all stand right?
Join the Revolution!
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Karthwritte
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:21:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Karthwritte on 28/06/2011 19:26:04 I say that the Dust MT content should be things that dosent affect directly the shooting, like just a new gun. It should be things that people use to "invest" (buy to get a benefit that with your actions would help you be better) like guns factories, bpc, remaps of minds (for dust players), skill books (not the basic ones, and NOT USING MACRO TRANSACTIONS), etc, etc.
I also think they should take the clothes of the girl in the Nvidia-CCP APEX thing and sell it. At a good price, 10$ tops. Also refund in aurum the guys who bought the skirts and some t-shirts and put them at good prices too. Leave the monocles prices intact, let those guys have their dream.
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/06/2011 19:06:52
Originally by: Ms Freak
Would you be able to direct a few of the CSM at my thread please? It may assist them, if not no biggie, but i would like to know they have at least seen it so that the people that have posted can know thier views have been heard directly?
Heh no problem. I will link your thread as well as mine.
Thanks - i've been trying with limited success!
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Elrica bloodbane
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:25:00 -
[75]
Talk amongst key
"Transparency is one of the basic values of workers and the CCP in the newsletter include the views of employees and managers who are used to form the overall company. Once information was played on the internet players were angry statements from the context that led to even greater anger among the players. The same thing happened with the content of emails sent to Hilmar. "Jerry said.
The third issue that has a lot of anger olli= players is that they require management to certify that the CCP will not be able to buy practical things, "functional" with money in the future, so people will be able to buy a victory. Democratically elected counsel will meet this week
John says that the games production as CCP can not bring such a statement, but asserts that it will never be able to buy a victory in EVE Online, designed to be both.
CCP has called for their democratically elected expect players from all over the world this week which will be discussed ways of how the introduction of products for sale in EVE will be presented.
That way players will encounter a society is most comfortable with, and press releases will be sent out subsequently.
John does not particularly concerned that many people will quit playing the game because of changes in product mix in the game.
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Gashblight
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:41:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Gashblight
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I just read that thread. Translation is a bit dubious via google but you can get the gist. Put it this way - if thats the approach they present to the CSM thursday/friday then New Eden is going to explode.
It's just a sad case of people not wanting to see what's right in front of their face. Granted google translater can be a little dodgy but look at the gap between what is said there, and what you want to hear.
Well whats being said is arrogant tosh in the main. What I want to hear is a resolution to all this because I'm not really happy to see the only genuinely sandbox mmo die a horible death. But I'm happy to wait till friday to light up the barricades again. Its what - 3 days away?
Between you and me I'm sure there will need to be some more protests and PR backlash before this gets resolved but having the CSM go and talk face to face and look into the eyes of CCP when discussing their future plans will help us know where we all stand right?
My first reply timed out and I lost it so let me just sum it up withùI'm dubious about the amount of discussion that will happen although I remain hopeful that CCP will capitulate on the hanger and items of power in the cash shop before my sub expires in Aug.
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Warg Matar
Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:54:00 -
[77]
Bump, good op(s), good points!
Regarding Eve and Dust connection though, I don't really care about Dust and I thought I heard conflicting information before about the shards you play on (which caused me to care even less). What I heard anyway, they weren't really affected in real time so to say. Sorta like a new vastly more limited world. I mean, for real for Dust to be connected to Eve in real time and affected by Sov etc + faction warfare? Every planet has to be contestable like a Planetside style continent and so on. No way it can be done.
Feel free to correct me though. I just thought it wasn't such a big deal since they wouldn't be connected in that fashion to begin with.
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:19:00 -
[78]
I would like them to change it from 22 devs working on spaceship part of the game and 70 on incarna, to 70 devs on spaceships and 22 on incarna.
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Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:26:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: ScreenWipe There is nothing wrong with CQ, it's just old players like JC here, that's frightened of change. Change is needed to pull in new customers, if 5k vet's are going to un-sub because of it, well, so be it.
I can imagine along with a few years, CCP have pumped millions of krauts, pounds, dollars, etc.. into incarna, are you suggesting they flush it down the bog, all them man hours.. Sigh.. C'mon man, get a grip, there is no way CCP would do that.
I hope that CCP stand their ground in the upcoming CSM meeting, like yourself, i have been ingame a long time(just after beta) and i as many others do, welcome the change, i dont see MT affecting the PVE side of EVE, we still get to blow **** up and collect our LP's.
I do hope they bring the price down on vanity items, at least by a factor of 10.
Old players arent afraid of regualar change. its the changeing of the whole point of eve change we dont like. we get it you are a npcer that has no problem with people buying better ships, guns, ammo, boosters, or whatever to give them an advantage. you dont care fine, we do. 8+ years in this game should give us a voice.
i dont want to get rid of incarna. If ccp stand their ground and introduce non vanity items i think the game ends. the vets where around when the server topped out at 1500. i will stay till they intruduce non vanity items and then i am gone. as will most of the players i play with.
the effects of non vanity items.
the miners dont need to mine, the builders dont need to build, the haulers dont need to haul, the pvpers dont have as many targets and get bored, npcers kill their npcs and sell their loot for a fraction of the cost because it doesnt compare to the stuff people are buying with real cash. so all in all, the end of eve.
.... this .. but none of this talk matters. as sev people have referred to they have given their answer in the interview hilmar gave. (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541933) the CSM metting is a waste of time imo. nothing is going to change their mind but *substantial* hits to ther subscription revenues. eve is now just a test bed for WoD and dust. take a look at the market discussion forums... their financial statements shows they are burning through cash and that cash sure as h*ll isn't making it back into eve. The writing is on the wall. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Verone
Well, I was in the process of writing something very similar, but I'll simply support this thread instead and keep the feedback all in one place.
My main concern in all of this is the "Pay to win" mentality of micro transactions.
Fair enough, have MT in dust. Hell, make it free to play and base the entire economy of it on micro transactions, I'm not bothered. It would still fit together with Eve perfectly if done correctly. It's a separate game, with a separate economy that's bridged to Eve's.
My problem is the introduction of ships with pretty paint jobs and items with improved statistics that can be bought for Aurum.
Now, I'm not against having ship customisation available for people who want it, but pretty paint is as far as it needs to go.
Players should never be able to by SHIPS for Aurum. The only way this should be implemented is by bringing a hull, either standard or faction to the NeX, and paying Aurum to have it decorated with corporate/faction logos.
The statistics should stay identical to the standard ship, no new ship should be added to the database, and the hull would simply get a name change to "Ishukone Watch Scorpion" or "Veto Corp Rattlesnake" depending on what corporate logo you decided to put on it.
In the end I'm completely and utterly, 100 percent against any form of content that can be purchased via micro transaction to give an ingame advantage.
Eve is a sandbox, where everyone starts on equal footing. I've always been against the idea of PLEX and MT in Eve, someone's out of game wallet should never have a DIRECT influence on how successful they are in game.
Agreed. +1. I have seen a lot of arguments about other games using MT or "Pay to win" (P2W) that show positive results but cannot think my way out of the conclusion that Eve is unique in its expensive/permanant loss feature (a selling point I must add) and that P2W will not work for a game of permanent loss.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Just Abide
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:38:00 -
[81]
I think it's cute how you guys think the CSM is relevent. "... stand at the foot of Zeus and roar..."
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:51:00 -
[82]
Another good post with some interesting ideas, albeit back to the normal JC dimensions.
Although I agree with most of your text I disagree with few things.
I too would love to see NeX clothing/vanity items consuming some eve resources via BPCs to make and have no problem with it in principle on that, and I actually think that would be a great path for CCP to go down to include/enable player manufacturers to design their own bling styles and market them with further iteration.
New 'unattainable for the masses' BPOs for things from the NeX store is as wrong as T2 BPOs were in origin though. BPCs is fair enough so long as they are a "personal use" length, so say 1-5 Bling Scorpions each instead of 1000 run prints etc? People are paying for bling, not for the ability to mass produce bling and profit by resale.
Sorry if this feedback is tangential to what you were saying, I only skim read it if I'm honest. I'll edit later after I muster the strength of will to read it properly. Cheers.
Oh, the last thing I wanted to say was I know you were a CSM and fair play for that achievement and all, but if you think the CSM are going there to "negotiate" with CCP, I feel you're a bit optimistic.
My belief is they are going to Iceland to be told in no uncertain terms "non-vanity MTs are coming" and they are going there not to debate it but rather to help CCP find a way to soften the blow to the rest of the community. <Sadface>
Should be interesting to see what really happens though and it has at least got me interested in the forum again (but not really the game ) The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE......
Honest Guv! We had no plans for it but we are doing it anyw |
Alice Tivianne
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Posted - 2011.06.28 21:12:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Solosky Edited by: Solosky on 28/06/2011 12:28:27
Originally by: Jade Constantine 3. But NeX items cannot be the whole of Incarna content.
You are naive. Yes - they can and they will. What do you expect after CSM meeting - CCP withdraw 200 developmers from Dust and WoD to create semi-free NeX shirts and t3 fighters and battleships by New Year? No way.
Well thats what our CSM is going to debate. If they come back and say "sorry guyz but incarna is all getting delivered through the NeX store for player market independent magic fairy goodz" then I guess the protests need to intensify and move ahead.
Remember those awesome table top game and bar? You'll need Aurium to buy them. While we are at it, why not a currency exchange? Then you can have a currency for the black-market or something.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Meridian Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.06.28 21:15:00 -
[84]
+1 to this as well. I had unsubbed a few months ago for r/l again, and was seriously considering just being done with it for good after this last week's mess, but re-upped for a month to at least SEE what all the hullabaloo was about.
After almost 9 years of EVE, I've gotta say this is the WORST excuse of an expansion since...well since ever, and that's saying something as I was there for Castor. -snicker.
On the positive side, the update does work with linux/wine, so there is that.
I HOPE the CSM isn't just window dressing. I HOPE that CCP will pull their heads out and fix existing messes. I HOPE.
A tiny lil' voice in the back of my skull though thinks that this hope is a bit naive, as CCP has gone from being that lil outfit that bought their game rights back in 03/04 to a game studio that thinks it has to emulate what everyone else is doing.
I've seen this mentality in the IT field, and it never ends well...usually with a bankruptcy and corporate dismemberment.
We'll see.
Updated Arch64 Compiz-Linux Desktop Who is John Galt? |
Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.28 22:09:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Stormchyld on 28/06/2011 22:16:43 .... in case anyone is interested. here is a link to a better translation of the recent article the COO did to a local icelandic newspaper.
http://www.failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2434&start=940 |
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.06.28 22:38:00 -
[86]
A well deserved bump to an excellent thread.
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Lii'ta
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:17:00 -
[87]
bump
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Aesynil
Caldari The Unit...
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:44:00 -
[88]
It's good to see the forums moving on to this level. I was one of the folk threatening quitting, simply because I wanted to make it clear to CCP how serious I viewed this. I feel if they can answer these questions satisfactorily, and promise good for the Eve universe, this is going to be a good step in the right direction. I'll gladly get back to the Eve Spaceships Drama instead of the Eve Forums Drama.
If we can channel all of that rage into something productive, we can all get back to pew-pewing :)
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:50:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/06/2011 12:01:38
4. Now on the really complex issue. MT for gameplay advantage.
ItÆs easy to get up on the chair and shout ôno pay to win in Eveö. ôNo gameplay changing microtransactions!ö But the elephant in the room is DUST 514. This is a MT-based game that is designed from the ground up to have influence on aspects of Eve most notably sovereignty warfare. The sad truth is that game-changing microtransactions ARE coming to Eve as long as Dust 514 finishes development and gets rolled out. And as long as alliance sovereignty fights can be influenced by whose credit card than buy the best tanks for their Dust mercs then the game has changed and changed forever.
Yep, that's basically it.
Dust would break EVE by design. Good job CCP.
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.29 07:59:00 -
[90]
I strongly disagree that making the stuff in the NeX store into tradable BPOs and BPCs would be the right direction. It is called vanity items for a reason, if you want to shell out real cash on dolling your character up, do it. It is after all your money and while some will disagree with your purchase(s) it is ultimately yours to make.
I think if you go with a BP solution where they can be traded, you could potentially end up with something that brings more problems to the table than it solves.
♫ When your ship gets blown to bits ♫ And you lose your Faction fits \☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/ |
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