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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:33:00 -
[1]
Total Bond Value: minimum of 10 bil maximum of 20 bil. Bond Begins: On the 3rd of July as long as 10bil minimum is met Maturity: 30 days Interest: There is no collateral on this bond. Previous Bonds: First Bond Second Bond Third Bond Currently Active
Hi all, i currently have a bond that is finishing on the 1st which will be paid in full and on time. So allowing a day or 2 for investors to confirm they have recieved their isk i will be launching a further bond.
This new Bond will be for a minimum of 10bil and a maximum of 20 bil. There are 2 new things that i would like to do with this bond, 1; i'd like to extend the time frame of which i need the isk 2; i would like to lower the interest at which im borrowing.
My reasons for the changes are mainly logistics and expenditure, everyone would like a lower borrowing rate if it can be achieved. The main reason for a time frame change is that i don't believe its economical to invest and liquidate 10-20bil worth of stuff in 1 month, in my opinion its not possible, it would mean cutting out the maximisation of profits because im on a timeframe. Then there is the period in which i must liquidate my assets and not reinvest at the end of the bond because im aware that in 2-3 days i need to repay. all these reasons means that im only using the investment for a shorter period then the bond time length. I've accepted this before on lower bonds because the interest im paying was low, with the 10bil i had this time it wasn't so easy to immediately invest the 10bil and start earning profit.
I think we can all understand my reasons for the second change(interest rate). I believe im at a stage now where i either limit investments to me or lower the interest rate at which i borrow and because i still believe that i can invest larger amounts of isk effectively.
So my proposition is 3 months at 3.5% per month with interest to be paid at the end?
Maybe some verfification 3rd party audit at 1 and half months to insure that i haven't distributed your isk to the far reaches of the galaxy? Personally i dont think its needed but if people want it who am i to deny you?
I will be taking minimum investments of 500mil. Do not send ISK to me until i have asked/stated for it.
As always if any further info is required please feel free to mail me, convo or post in this thread. Please post idea's criticisms i'm looking for as much feedback as possible.
Reserve List:
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:47:00 -
[2]
Going from a 2bil bond to a 20bil bond in three months seems quite a fast set of steps up.
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:51:00 -
[3]
interest rate seems stable but too low for non-collateral of this size and too soon as well.
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:06:00 -
[4]
I might consider 7% plus interest, but not too high so you don't get in a close cut situation like LE had.
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Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.06.28 19:30:00 -
[5]
How much did you make from your last bond?
How did you make it?
What is your current nav?
What skill are you currently training and why?
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.06.29 01:21:00 -
[6]
to strogg, i've had 2 previous bonds at 5% so 7% is the wrong direction for me.
to rogue: at a guestestimate i made 2-3 bil profit - the bond interest
i made this through building and selling of ships and the research and selling of BPO's
i have no idea of my current NAV,i wouldn't want to guess as this would/could be used against me. you may ask why i don't know and thats because after a certain point i don't think anyone who has enough isk cares how much they own or what value their assets have.
skills and training? seems an odd request to be honest. i now have 4 toons and 2 alts on these toons. if you want me to disclose what im training on each toon i would consider it an odd request but im willing to do it.
for transperancy i would add that i baught this toon http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1530457
i baught this toon with "my" isk and in my opinion wasn't detrimental to the bond.
To RAW32, its actually 4 months and its from 1bil to 20bil. if i could have done it faster i would have, but the trust in the MD community is at the lowest possible point atm in my opinion.
to me 1 bil 10 100bil makes no difference. i would compare myself to grendell only i haven't built up the years of trust like he has. in a few years i will be.
to make another comparison to grendell, i don't believe this bond is any different from the 1 grendell has launched for a 1.5/2% interest rate.investors are trusting in him and have seen no collateral or will ever see any colateral. he has earnt this trust as i believe i have.
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.06.30 09:45:00 -
[7]
bump
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.06.30 09:51:00 -
[8]
Shootin' for the sky?
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.06.30 11:16:00 -
[9]
why not? reserve 2 billiones for me.
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.01 15:22:00 -
[10]
only 8bil more needed and this bond will get under way on the 3rd, if minimum isnt met by the 3rd extension will be made.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.01 15:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/07/2011 15:49:01 Edited by: RAW23 on 01/07/2011 15:47:12
Originally by: Lord Wickham To RAW32, its actually 4 months and its from 1bil to 20bil. if i could have done it faster i would have, but the trust in the MD community is at the lowest possible point atm in my opinion.
to me 1 bil 10 100bil makes no difference. i would compare myself to grendell only i haven't built up the years of trust like he has. in a few years i will be.
to make another comparison to grendell, i don't believe this bond is any different from the 1 grendell has launched for a 1.5/2% interest rate.investors are trusting in him and have seen no collateral or will ever see any colateral. he has earnt this trust as i believe i have.
The thing is, doubling (or more) your public debt on a monthly basis doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Think of it from an investor perspective - you may know that you are as pure as the driven snow but your investors cannot know that. Now, the difficulty for a bond issuer is to show that you are different from a scammer and one of the ways to do that is to increase your debt in a slow and responsible manner that can be distinguished from a cash-grab approach. 10bil or 100bil might not make a difference to you but it will make a difference to your investors so you can't frame your debt growth purely in terms of your views about yourself. you have to accept that your true intentions are opaque to your investors and work on that basis.
Edit - It also doesn't help that most of your investors are fairly unknown and that at least one of them has an apparent record of scamming.
Edit2- From Chribba's page in the evelopedia:
Quote:
Warning: A number of people are trying to scam by claiming they are affiliated with me/my service. I am in no way affiliated with, nor do I vouch for: Djabra'il, Mr BeanCounter, madamtrader, EBC James, sereneabt, Cute CEO, nicealt, DR jekyle, Reverb LIthus, Darveleen Willam, Stargirl X, Bunnehrawr Rawr, KorAzor Prime or Seph Bloodfield.
If you have any concerns or questions about someone claiming to be working for me just drop me a line. Do not trust anyone saying they work with me unless you hear it from myself.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.01 15:59:00 -
[12]
First scam attempt that actually made me feel sorry for the perpetrator. Lord Wiggum you're in need of serious help. Vicarious embarrassment! Yes, you read that right I feel ashamed for you and I'm not even your mum. -- Zinfandelgate - A fictionalized account of the events that led to June, 21st |
Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.01 17:39:00 -
[13]
raw i agree with you on some aspects, though i don't believe im doubling my bonds every month. there is a minimum amount i would need and a maximum amount i could put to use. This bond minimum is at 10bil although i thought about staying with a minimum or 5bil. If i was only to recieve 10bil which was my previous bond limit i would be happy with that and at that point i would not have increased my public debt.
As for those who invest in me, its not for me to pick and choose investors, im just very greatfull they chose to trust me with their isk. I believe you also only picked up on the ngeative of investors instead of those with some known community respect.
if you have a spare bil why not invest yourself? help me on my way?
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Ariana DeSoto
Howling Penguin Research Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.07.01 18:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RAW23
Edit - It also doesn't help that most of your investors are fairly unknown and that at least one of them has an apparent record of scamming.
Damn, guess I need to work harder on grinding rep so I can be seen as one of the cool kids. <-- unknown but still cool in my shades.
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: RAW23
Edit - It also doesn't help that most of your investors are fairly unknown and that at least one of them has an apparent record of scamming.
Quote:
ehh i dont follow with this, not wanting people to know you have umptold billions is not something to frown upon
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LLoyd Thomson
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Posted - 2011.07.02 03:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lord Wickham i would compare myself to grendell only i haven't built up the years of trust like he has. in a few years i will be.
i, too, would compare myself to grendell only i haven't built up the years of trust like he has. in a few years i will be.
Please invest in my scheme opportunity of doubling any ISK send to me.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.02 05:51:00 -
[17]
@Ariana and Trance It's nothing to do with being a 'cool kid' or people wanting to keep their billions secret. Purely from an outsider's perspective, when a large bond fills with a large proportion of unknown investors despite all or most of the regular investment crowd steering clear one is bound to consider the possibility that it is being filled, in whole or in part, by alts. This technique for preparing a scam is as old as eve (or at the least appears in the oldest stories about eve scams). There is nothing at all decisive about it but its a piece of data that can't really be ignored.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.02 06:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lord Wickham to rogue: at a guestestimate i made 2-3 bil profit - the bond interest
i have no idea of my current NAV,i wouldn't want to guess as this would/could be used against me. you may ask why i don't know and thats because after a certain point i don't think anyone who has enough isk cares how much they own or what value their assets have.
Guesstimates? You have no idea what your NAV is? That attitude won't instil confidence in your abilities. If you're going to run a public bond, expect to have answers at your fingertips.
Quote: skills and training? seems an odd request to be honest. i now have 4 toons and 2 alts on these toons. if you want me to disclose what im training on each toon i would consider it an odd request but im willing to do it.
If you want public money, answer questions politely. If you thought about it, what Rogue is asking is perfectly logical.
Quote: to me 1 bil 10 100bil makes no difference. i would compare myself to grendell only i haven't built up the years of trust like he has. in a few years i will be.
to make another comparison to grendell, i don't believe this bond is any different from the 1 grendell has launched for a 1.5/2% interest rate.investors are trusting in him and have seen no collateral or will ever see any colateral. he has earnt this trust as i believe i have.
Now you're just being silly. You're not Grendell, you have not earned one percent of the trust he has.
Quote: So my proposition is 3 months at 3.5% per month with interest to be paid at the end?
No way, squire. You've not earned a 3.5% rate; you're still high risk - and your attitude in this thread makes you a higher risk. Not a single bond that I recall deferred interest to the end, so that is a definite no-no.
Listen to what RAW23 had to say and restructure your offering to more modest levels. And use a spell-checker. Clarity helps.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.02 09:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Varo Jan
Listen to what RAW23 had to say and restructure your offering to more modest levels. And use a spell-checker. Clarity helps.
Plus, seeing a guy who calls his alts "toons" replying to someone else called Roguehalo, brought me some WoW memories.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:00:00 -
[20]
Gona extend the Reserve time to the 10th of july if by this time i still haven't recieved the full investment i will close down the bond.
only 8bil is needed to make it to the minimum amount the bond requires to start.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lord Wickham after a certain point i don't think anyone who has enough isk cares how much they own or what value their assets have.
Whoever got enough ISK doesn't need to issue a bond.
Originally by: Lord Wickham to me 1 bil 10 100bil makes no difference.
It should, especially because it's other peoples billions you plan not to grant collateral for, no?
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lord Wickham Gona extend the Reserve time to the 10th of july if by this time i still haven't recieved the full investment i will close down the bond.
You didn't listen to a word anybody said, did you? This will not fly as it stands. 1. Reduce the amount. 2. Increase the interest rate. 3. Pay interest monthly, not at the end of the bond term.
Quote: only 8bil is needed to make it to the minimum amount the bond requires to start.
You have one reservation, you mean. Not a single regular MD investor has come forward. What does that tell you?
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:31:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lord Wickham on 03/07/2011 18:32:36 1. the minimum amount is the same as the previous bond 2. the interest from my perspective can only be raised .5% to 4% otherwise this bond is not worth it in my opinion. Current market for me has declined and sales are down. As it is you seem to be the only 1 that has complained about the 3.5% interest and you've not stated you would want to invest even if i was to increase it. If an investor wants to fill all or part of my bond but doesn't like the interest rate i am open talks, as it stands 3.5% is my goal. 3. I am willing to pay interest monthly, again any prospective investors have not stated a preference either way and again im open to discussion on this point.
Although im greatfull for your critisisms i don't feel you want to invest and are simply attacking my bond. Maybe you would like to have a private convo with me in game?
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OllieNorth
Gallente R-K Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lord Wickham Edited by: Lord Wickham on 03/07/2011 18:32:36 2. the interest from my perspective can only be raised .5% to 4% otherwise this bond is not worth it in my opinion. Current market for me has declined and sales are down.
This is troubling. You are telling us that you need a larger bond at a lower interest rate because your business is not doing well. An uncollateralized loan of this size should absolutely be closer to 7%. You make me sad because you are making me agree with RAW23, stop it will you?
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:50:00 -
[25]
previous bonds have mine have achieved a 5% interest rate so 7% imo is unfounded. this bond minimum is also no bigger then my last bond. Also i said the area i was/am doing business in is slow, not that my profit margin is lower. It just takes time to liquidate which means im slower at turning over new capital for new ventures. this is the reason for the time lengthening and lower rate.
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Proton Power
Amarr Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.07.04 14:54:00 -
[26]
I am not saying Wickham won't scam or anything of the sort, but I will say overall he seems like a good guy.
He has been trading for a long time, atleast the time that I have known him. I have trusted him with a few bil in stuff here and there, and he has never failed paying me my share of the sales.
When trading high value items, you need a bit more isk, which is what I am guessing this bond is for. The interest rate is to low for me, but other than that, 10bil for him I don't think is stretch by any means.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.04 14:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: OllieNorth You make me sad because you are making me agree with RAW23, stop it will you?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.07.06 21:21:00 -
[28]
still waiting for the big investor
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LLoyd Thomson
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Posted - 2011.07.07 03:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lord Wickham still waiting for the big investor
Jesus! Even a dog learns something when he was beaten enough.
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Lord Wickham
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Posted - 2011.08.12 16:00:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Lord Wickham on 12/08/2011 16:01:35 i'd just like to revive this thread with the link of my current sales post
Sales thread
in my opinion this failed bond and myself is either proof that i suck at bond making(though i had 3 previous bonds) or that MD "elite" trolled my bond bad enough that investor confidence was smashed.
my thread shows that i have/had collateral for half the bond and should give an indication that i wasn't going to scam, like so many believed.
i could of just let this lie and carried on doing my own thing, but the way i was treated(in my eyes) by posters within this thread was harsh uncalled for and now 99% untrue?
I'd like those who posted here to respond now in hindsight whther they still believe what they posted was correct/necessary.
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