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Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:41:00 -
[1]
From my current understanding (limited ) the way PLEX works at the moment would be like a department store selling gift vouchers with no expiry date, thereby they would remain a liability against the company until redeemed. Is this correct or is there something I'm not aware of in the PLEX process?
Was there a reason they were implemented the way they were?
Did the whole PLEX process bypass the CCP accountants?
Oh and don't shoot me for not knowing, I'm only fairly new around here
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:46:00 -
[2]
You are correct. One thing people don't think about tho is that PLEX were declared ingame items like any other ingame item. Therefore you could wake up tomorrow and your 20 billion in PLEX(2 years or so of game time) could be transformed into Quafe and CCP no longer has any liability and there is no recourse.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:50:00 -
[3]
If they had an expiration date they would be hard to list on the market. What would you do, have a market slot for each day of the year? So it may just be making them forever is easier, because then they are all the same.
That, and the resulting rage if they were not permanent.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 29/06/2011 16:53:17
Or CCP could actually start buying in game plexs from the market. This would lower the supply as well as artificially raise the prices, there for increasing demand(demand to buy plexs with $$). From CCPs standpoint they would lose nothing since the plexs have already been paid for. However it would inject a lot of isk into the market.
edit: Sorry Akita didn't see your thread.
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i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
Gallente sHaKeDoWn..
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 29/06/2011 16:53:17
Or CCP could actually start buying in game plexs from the market. This would lower the supply as well as artificially raise the prices, there for increasing demand(demand to buy plexs with $$). From CCPs standpoint they would lose nothing since the plexs have already been paid for. However it would inject a lot of isk into the market.
edit: Sorry Akita didn't see your thread.
It's OK, Azahni Vah'nos is a Akita T alt. (joking)
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Irideus
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:09:00 -
[6]
I thought about this the other day and wondered the same thing...
Originally by: Vincent Athena If they had an expiration date they would be hard to list on the market. What would you do, have a market slot for each day of the year? So it may just be making them forever is easier, because then they are all the same.
That, and the resulting rage if they were not permanent.
Perhaps they could be categorised into colours say...
GREEN PLEX (12 months -> 1 months remaining) YELLOW PLEX (1 month -> 1 week remaining) ORANGE PLEX (1 week -> 1 day remaining) RED PLEX (less thank 1 day remaining)
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Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 29/06/2011 17:12:31 Edited by: Typomaster 2000 on 29/06/2011 17:11:40
It would be additional headache for the market, both buyers and sellers. Each PLEX would need to be a totally separate record and they could never be stacked. The headache for petitions regarding "Dude, where's my PLEX." would only add to the support issues. A glut in the market could potentially force a price drop as players race to unload them as they get near expiring. Do you think that CCP would be able to implement an expiration date on them and have it work properly?
Plex are like gold as far as being a traded commodity, not milk.
But if they were like milk and sold on milk cartons, could we have 'Have you seen (insert banned player name here)' ads on them?
. I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore!
I have reassigned my money for CCP to other projects for the next 18 months... |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:13:00 -
[8]
There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
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Futile Rhetoric
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
I fail to see the Big Deal, you could make the same argument about yearly subscriptions etc.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
There are two big problems with your statement. The first, it doesn't work like that. Earned income is earned income, regardless of when the product is actually obtained. The second, CCP actually makes more money from PLEX than traditional subscription models.
12 bought PLEX > 12 month sub
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Sook Statta Hahndah
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
As a responsible company, they should understand their liability and adjust their spending accordingly.
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
There are two big problems with your statement. The first, it doesn't work like that. Earned income is earned income, regardless of when the product is actually obtained. The second, CCP actually makes more money from PLEX than traditional subscription models.
12 bought PLEX > 12 month sub
You are correct, earned income is earned income. Cash flow is cash flow. Depeding on business model, business type, current projects, blah blah blah, cash flow may be the difference survival and bankruptcy for a company at any given time.
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:27:00 -
[14]
If EVERY EVE player went ahead and earned and consumed every plex on the market, CCP would make no money that month, but I highly doubt there's 400k PLEX on the market.
The Forge/Jita trades 1500-2000 PLEX a day. There's no indication all of that is used at once - but that puts # of accounts that use PLEX around 50k at minimum - probably closer to 100k given other Trade hubs.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore There really is no need to have PLEX expire. They are already earned income and having 20 sitting in my hangar has absolutely no negative effects on the EVEconomy.
There is no negative effect on the in-game economy, however, there is a negative effect on CCPs cashflow. Imagine if all those hoarded PLEX were suddenly redeemed for gametime, CCPs cashflow would come to a grinding halt. Yes, they have already been paid for that gametime, but, they have already spent that money.
There are two big problems with your statement. The first, it doesn't work like that. Earned income is earned income, regardless of when the product is actually obtained. The second, CCP actually makes more money from PLEX than traditional subscription models.
12 bought PLEX > 12 month sub
You are correct, earned income is earned income. Cash flow is cash flow. Depeding on business model, business type, current projects, blah blah blah, cash flow may be the difference survival and bankruptcy for a company at any given time.
And any properly run business knows that you have to account for the time factor on up front income. But these businesses are banking on the idea that most players won't even use the full value of the product and the company would rather take a 48% loss of revenue for a player who buys a year and uses a month than to only get $15 for that same month. PLEX somewhat solved this problem since the people buying them are already paying for their own subscriptions. PLEX prices increasing is better for CCP since the people that already buy them will buy more of them.
Supply and Demand.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:31:00 -
[16]
You think that a token that represents game time should not only be destructable, but now should expire?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1542583&page=2#43
/me now knows it is really impossible to fix stupid
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Val'Dore any properly run business
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore any properly run business
Was that meant to convey the irony of the situation?
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Val'Dore any properly run business
Was that meant to convey the irony of the situation?
Yes, not a poke at you but at CCP.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2011.06.29 17:54:00 -
[20]
If the OP really wants to talk about CCP view PLEXes you should look at Market Discussion Forum.
Two real life accountants for large corporations concluded that PLEXes and GTCs are recorded as revenue the second they are sold. The main reason is they account for normal subscriptions by taking the revenue over the period of the subscription, but this isnt possible to calculate for plex and GTC because the subscription hasn't happened yet. They only represent a subscription somewhere in the future.
GTC and PLEX are technically not a subscription, but a coupon that when turned in is good for 30 or 60 days. However, GTCs are also turned in for Two PLEXES. Those two PLEXES could be destroyed in game, or purchased and sit on account which gets banned or the player leaves never to return.
GTC's from the EVE Store also transfer complete risk of ownership to the customer on sale. It's in their terms of service, and the EULA only recognize active subscription times in their limits and liabilities section. This means CCP only record subscriptions that are active or recognized as subscriptions, not as a "coupon for future service".
How they move PLEX and GTC sale to Subscription revenue is up in the air, my theory is, they account for PLEX/GTC as Sales of Goods, and once turned in, they shift the value of the GTC/PLEX from "Sales of Goods" to "Subscriptions". The direct reason is, a PLEX/GTC sold does NOT equal subscription, they could be lost, destroyed, gathering dust or virtual dust in a hanger somewhere. Having those sit on my books as a liability is not a good position. Accounting for them as "Sales of Goods" allows me to not worry about the liability of them and keeps them off my books until they are actually turned in. Once turned in for a subscription, they must provide 30/60 days of game time. Though that is my theory based on the information from two very well respected real life accounting nerds.
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Amarr for Life |
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Evil Stare
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Posted - 2011.06.29 19:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Evil Stare on 29/06/2011 19:47:36
Originally by: Amber Villaneous You are correct. One thing people don't think about tho is that PLEX were declared ingame items like any other ingame item. Therefore you could wake up tomorrow and your 20 billion in PLEX(2 years or so of game time) could be transformed into Quafe and CCP no longer has any liability and there is no recourse.
This is how things start. In 3 weeks we'll be reading about people leaving eve because their plex will be turning into quafe. Stay thirsty my friends.
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