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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
448
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:10:00 -
[121] - Quote
Detecting a stealth "dumb sized blues list" fix post here so that's the point of my reply:
Remove the ability to set standings. BANG
Standings should only exist between individuals and NPC mission agents
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Lord Zim
1503
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Detecting a stealth "dumb sized blues list" fix post here so that's the point of my reply:
Remove the ability to set standings. BANG
Standings should only exist between individuals and NPC mission agents I assume there's some sort of problem that you're trying to solve, here? |
Brooks Puuntai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
746
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:34:00 -
[123] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Detecting a stealth "dumb sized blues list" fix post here so that's the point of my reply:
Remove the ability to set standings. BANG
Standings should only exist between individuals and NPC mission agents
This would be dumb and also would backfire. Take Goons for example, with ~9000 members no single alliance would be able to counter them solo atm. So without having standings groups of corporations or alliances wouldn't be able to form up against them, without having major issues(shooting friends).
Edit: Correction on Goons member count. Looks like they've grown. |
Attor
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.09.17 16:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Detecting a stealth "dumb sized blues list" fix post here so that's the point of my reply:
Remove the ability to set standings. BANG
Standings should only exist between individuals and NPC mission agents
I don't get it. How would forcing me to tape a list of tickers I'm not allowed to shoot at to the side of my monitor reduce the number of alliances in a coalition? Anyways the blue list is irrelevant because they're all going to be purple when it matters anyways.
Back on topic, besides the fact that bigger numbers are scary could somebody explain why inflation is so terrible assuming income increases with it? |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
78
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:22:00 -
[125] - Quote
Trendon Evenstar wrote:kilmenow Hakaari wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:It should be a comfort to everyone concerned about inflation that the benevolent space guild Goonswarm Federation in conjunction with the greater CFC and the Honeybadger Coalition has destroyed over 3600 ships to the tune of over 300b including many carriers and even a super carrier today. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/UMI-KK/killsAnyone else wanna contribute? that isk doesn't actually leave the economy, it just switched hands. So if I have a 200m smartbombing Scorpion and it gets destroyed, I get about 40m insurance. Let's say 10m in mods drop and someone scoops that up. Probably 5m or so in salvage. Where did the other 145m go?
You never had a Scorpion made out of 200m. You had a Scorpion that someone would be willing to trade you 200m isk for.
When the Scorpion gets destroyed, the isk still remains, what you lost is the approximate value of 200m, which means you've just caused inflation as now less value represents the same amount of isk.
Even worse is if you insured the ship, now you've added the insurance payout into the system, causing even more inflation.
The good news is your loss of a ship means you will probably want to get a new one. This causes demand and reduces inflation. As long as inflation caused by destruction and demand caused by destruction are equal, there is a net of zero inflation. Once you include insurance pay out, more isk is entering the system which does cause inflation as there is now more money to represent the same amount of value. |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:kilmenow Hakaari wrote:what I propose was not just about reducing the isk in the economy, it's also a conflict driver.
It encourages large mega alliances to regroup into smaller groups.
Smaller groups tend to be easier to unseat from their long established "homes". It might open the door to some smaller alliances that are looking to own some space. No it doesn't. You could blast the alliance system entirely out, as long as there's an ability to set individual standings and unified coms via jabber/teamspeak what have you it won't affect anything. At most it will add complication. Agenda already spotted. They're thinking of the typical 10,000 member alliance, right?
Whats kinda funny about this idea is it would probably hit many high sec people more than a lot of null sec one. I mean large alliance would probably be able to split in small entity while keeping to same working "order of battle" while many high sec people are in npc corp because they don't know better.
Trying to target the famous 10k memeber alliance is "cool" but many idea fail HARD. |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:44:00 -
[127] - Quote
Barakach wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:kilmenow Hakaari wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:It should be a comfort to everyone concerned about inflation that the benevolent space guild Goonswarm Federation in conjunction with the greater CFC and the Honeybadger Coalition has destroyed over 3600 ships to the tune of over 300b including many carriers and even a super carrier today. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/UMI-KK/killsAnyone else wanna contribute? that isk doesn't actually leave the economy, it just switched hands. So if I have a 200m smartbombing Scorpion and it gets destroyed, I get about 40m insurance. Let's say 10m in mods drop and someone scoops that up. Probably 5m or so in salvage. Where did the other 145m go? You never had a Scorpion made out of 200m. You had a Scorpion that someone would be willing to trade you 200m isk for. When the Scorpion gets destroyed, the isk still remains, what you lost is the approximate value of 200m, which means you've just caused inflation as now less value represents the same amount of isk. Even worse is if you insured the ship, now you've added the insurance payout into the system, causing even more inflation. The good news is your loss of a ship means you will probably want to get a new one. This causes demand and reduces inflation. As long as inflation caused by destruction and demand caused by destruction are equal, there is a net of zero inflation. Once you include insurance pay out, more isk is entering the system which does cause inflation as there is now more money to represent the same amount of value.
What if they added npc sold ship? I know it would reduce the number of profitable industry market to a point but it would bleed isk out of the game right?
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
85
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:20:00 -
[128] - Quote
Moved from General Discussion to Features and Ideas.
Thanks and fly safe! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
79
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:30:00 -
[129] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: What if they added npc sold ship? I know it would reduce the number of profitable industry market to a point but it would bleed isk out of the game right?
Yes, giving money to a NPC is a sink and getting money from a NPC is a faucet. |
Lord Zim
1503
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:What if they added npc sold ship? I know it would reduce the number of profitable industry market to a point but it would bleed isk out of the game right? It's almost as if CCP hasn't been deliberately removing NPC-made stuff for a reason. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
572
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:10:00 -
[131] - Quote
I can fix this for everyone.
For a reasonable fee, I will accept donations, use this donated ISK to buy plex, and destroy it.
This will create a demand increase for plex, of course, but it will also remove ISK from the economy.
I will keep my fees modest, 5% of the value of received donations.
Start donating today. The ISK you spend now I can promise to not return to you. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Lord Zim
1503
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:27:00 -
[132] - Quote
:sigh: Buying plex will only remove isk from the economy insofar that sales taxes are involved. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
46
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Posted - 2012.09.17 20:24:00 -
[133] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Thus endeth the lesson.
Tippia, Do you think EVE would be a better game if the ISK faucets did exactly balance the sinks, and there was a fixed amount of ISK in-game (fixed amount per active subscription)? You could easily achieve this by scaling faucets back dynamically.... I guess the question is does inflation actually hurt Eve in the first place.... |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
3
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Posted - 2012.09.17 20:31:00 -
[134] - Quote
Untradeable NPC items. Ship pianting, CQ decorations, etc. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
572
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Posted - 2012.09.17 20:37:00 -
[135] - Quote
betoli wrote:Tippia wrote: Thus endeth the lesson.
Tippia, Do you think EVE would be a better game if the ISK faucets did exactly balance the sinks, and there was a fixed amount of ISK in-game (fixed amount per active subscription)? You could easily achieve this by scaling faucets back dynamically.... I guess the question is does inflation actually hurt Eve in the first place.... This would put the economy as a whole on a curve, and not necessarily an even one.
For one person to have more, others would need to have less.
The important factor to consider, is that the more successful a group of players becomes, the more financially squeezed must be a set of counterparts for them. Quite possibly not an equal number of people on either side, with one pilot able to have several times over the amount of ISK averaged into the economy per account.
This is bad.
By placing ISK limits on one side, and a more successful player on the other, they can be pushed into a level of play experience below the threshold needed to keep most players happy and subscribed to the game. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project
229
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Posted - 2012.09.17 21:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:Ship pianting, CQ decorations, etc. I like this idea. |
kilmenow Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.09.18 09:42:00 -
[137] - Quote
Barakach wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:kilmenow Hakaari wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:It should be a comfort to everyone concerned about inflation that the benevolent space guild Goonswarm Federation in conjunction with the greater CFC and the Honeybadger Coalition has destroyed over 3600 ships to the tune of over 300b including many carriers and even a super carrier today. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/UMI-KK/killsAnyone else wanna contribute? that isk doesn't actually leave the economy, it just switched hands. So if I have a 200m smartbombing Scorpion and it gets destroyed, I get about 40m insurance. Let's say 10m in mods drop and someone scoops that up. Probably 5m or so in salvage. Where did the other 145m go? You never had a Scorpion made out of 200m. You had a Scorpion that someone would be willing to trade you 200m isk for. When the Scorpion gets destroyed, the isk still remains, what you lost is the approximate value of 200m, which means you've just caused inflation as now less value represents the same amount of isk. Even worse is if you insured the ship, now you've added the insurance payout into the system, causing even more inflation. The good news is your loss of a ship means you will probably want to get a new one. This causes demand and reduces inflation. As long as inflation caused by destruction and demand caused by destruction are equal, there is a net of zero inflation. Once you include insurance pay out, more isk is entering the system which does cause inflation as there is now more money to represent the same amount of value.
Great point about the net being zero |
kilmenow Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.09.18 09:47:00 -
[138] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:kilmenow Hakaari wrote:what I propose was not just about reducing the isk in the economy, it's also a conflict driver.
It encourages large mega alliances to regroup into smaller groups.
Smaller groups tend to be easier to unseat from their long established "homes". It might open the door to some smaller alliances that are looking to own some space. No it doesn't. You could blast the alliance system entirely out, as long as there's an ability to set individual standings and unified coms via jabber/teamspeak what have you it won't affect anything. At most it will add complication. Agenda already spotted. They're thinking of the typical 10,000 member alliance, right?
Goons aren't the only mega alliance. They are the largest though. I like the goons, they find a problem or issue with the game. Bring it to ccp's attention. Then there is no response, so the goons poke at the problem, then hit it with a bat, then beat it over and over with the bat. And finally they get the dozer out and scrape the problem all aroung the property, dragging the bloody carcus around till everyone that drives by screams "HOLY **** WTF HAPPENED THERE". Then ccp notices and does something.
They might be out to rune everyone elses game, but they are really good at improveing Eve by getting the errors fixed. |
Alx Warlord
Security Task Force
158
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Posted - 2012.09.18 11:14:00 -
[139] - Quote
I dont think that is a good idea to solve the isk problem, but id definitely would be a punch in the face of the powerblocks and a big help for small alliances that hold a couple of systems. This means more alliances in null-sec more pvp and more conflicts.
A new POS system could help on this too, making the life out of hi-sec viable. [Discussion] - New POS System (Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft) |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
46
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:38:00 -
[140] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:betoli wrote:Tippia wrote: Thus endeth the lesson.
Tippia, Do you think EVE would be a better game if the ISK faucets did exactly balance the sinks, and there was a fixed amount of ISK in-game (fixed amount per active subscription)? You could easily achieve this by scaling faucets back dynamically.... I guess the question is does inflation actually hurt Eve in the first place.... This would put the economy as a whole on a curve, and not necessarily an even one. For one person to have more, others would need to have less.
In terms of liquidity, you're right. In terms of assets not so. Liquidity is not a measure of success. ISK is only useful when you spend it (or possibly as escrow).
Quote: The important factor to consider, is that the more successful a group of players becomes, the more financially squeezed must be a set of counterparts for them. Quite possibly not an equal number of people on either side, with one pilot able to have several times over the amount of ISK averaged into the economy per account.
This is bad.
By placing ISK limits on one side, and a more successful player on the other, they can be pushed into a level of play experience below the threshold needed to keep most players happy and subscribed to the game.
I would agree that balance would need care. However, I was suggesting ALL faucets in the game are throttled to achieve zero inflation. I don't think that predjudices any particular area or group - or does it?
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kilmenow Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.09.22 21:54:00 -
[141] - Quote
All very good points and a good discussion. What if more isk was taken out of the economy? Plex would probably cost about the same, then slowly decrease in price. Basically the value of each isk would increase relative to what it could be traded for. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
405
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:32:00 -
[142] - Quote
So basically a large alliance like Goonswarm would have to break itself up into numerous smaller alliances that still held the same aggregate space and functioned together exactly like GS does today?
Also there are no giant blocks controlling nullsec space. The closest you can find to giant blocks controlling space is brick squad and they're lego guys so those are small blocks. Also they might not have space anymore-- I don't even know, it's not my job to keep track of this stuff.
e: you should start a Duplo alliance. Bigger blocks! |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
21
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Posted - 2012.09.23 10:48:00 -
[143] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:So basically a large alliance like Goonswarm would have to break itself up into numerous smaller alliances that still held the same aggregate space and functioned together exactly like GS does today?
Also there are no giant blocks controlling nullsec space. The closest you can find to giant blocks controlling space is brick squad and they're lego guys so those are small blocks. Also they might not have space anymore-- I don't even know, it's not my job to keep track of this stuff.
e: you should start a Duplo alliance. Bigger blocks!
and its not like you all are the evil masters of the isk people make you all out to be. Unless crap has changed, basic rules of ratting still apply. got more than 6 peeps ratting a system, most aren't making a damn thing. Nights in 0.0 where all like 6 of our systems are packed with ratters and such....man it was dual box the empire alt to actually make isk. Kept the main online for pvp chances if they arose and an alt like this was making my isk for me. If we had the numbers, I'd wager empire no where as innocent or poor as some are making this out to be.
the 0.0 money whine gets old. Its not the foot soldiers even seeing this. As a former blobber in the trenches I wished I saw this money they supposedly have. Yay...lost a rokh to save this csaa. Owner of the csaa not even giving deals for what he makes if I went supers (like I could afford or even fly one), alliance not reimbursing bs'....so it was like please enjoy my 200 mil donation via lost ship to keep this csaa probably making a super that will be sold out of alliance if not tied to RTM activity.
Higher ups see the moon goo money, and I have no clue what they do with it. Well some clues, sure as hell didn't go to the we are sorry your fc was a tard and got you all killed needelessly fund. And I have seen many fail cap fits reimbursed to keep the caps flowing on ops. Good fit carrier lost in comabt, yeah, give the man his reimbursment. Some carriers though....man I would not even think about ratting in that fail fit and now you are giving out moon goo money out to pay for its loss. Wasn't even a loss, it was a mercy killing imo, ship was better off dead.
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1694
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Posted - 2012.09.23 13:22:00 -
[144] - Quote
Purge this communist propaganda with fire |
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