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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:32:00 -
[1]
And I say this after a lot of consideration ... and if you're interested, here's why:
1) Been in the game 5-6 yrs. Got 100mil SP with lvl5 in most areas I wanted to. A P2W player can't get any more than lvl5 in that area and if he/she paid to do it then strangely enough I still have the edge cos I have the experience which the P2W player doesn't. That could cost the P2W player 3 times as much replacing his ship and pod before he gains a bit of the experience I have.
2) How is the P2W player paying for this? If he is buying ISK (illegal RMT) then buying the character and ship, he can be found out and banned. If he buys it through CCP (either directly with PLEX/ISK) or via MT, it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever. MT is just a method of getting monies out of players that wish to fast track. There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)
3) If I don't want to buy - I don't HAVE to buy. BUT if I want to buy I can. It would be nice to have that choice. P2W and MT will give me that choice.
However there is a BUT and here it is.
I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.
To summarise
In my current state over over 100mil SP, I have no problem with a new player buying the 100mil SP off CCP - I can practically guarantee that they will lose their ship because I have the experience. Similarly, if a week old player was flying around in a faction BS fitted out with faction gear - I believe (knowing the Eve community as I do) that he would be suicide ganked in hi-sec and primaried in lo/null sec.
That's where I stand, if your interested.
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Whiny McEmokid
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:35:00 -
[2]
i see your point however
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 -
[3]
your oppinion is flawed because you assume it takes years to learn to fly said ship, a new player can L2 fly a carrier or dread in weeks then buy the SP to fly it, in fact what if power blocks pay to upgrade pilot skills? what blocks nullsec fights from being literally ALL super caps?
skills time(to build) removing skills would be bad because with only time to make said caps the only issue simply more production facilities would go up
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Hekira Soikutsu
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 -
[4]
One issue is that we can quickly make 1 week old disposable pvp alts. In a game where you cannot change your name and you leave an indelible mark on the things you do and the places you go, a few dollars is cheap for anonymity.
Eve is about accountability. What you are saying makes it too easy to wage war by proxy. If you must have alts then it must come at a cost of time.
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CORPSE FEMALE
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Klandi it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever.
Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?
Originally by: Klandi There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)
It's not an isk sink since the isk remains in the economy just as before.
Originally by: Klandi I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.
I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.
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Valhasi Ju'ma'ha
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Herping yourDerp Stuff and herfderf
Herping - have you been in a fight against PL recently? One of the last battles they bought over 100 supercaps to the fight. What you are saying is already happening without MT or P2W
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Digital Messiah
Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.06.30 21:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Klandi And I say this after a lot of consideration ... and if you're interested, here's why:
1) Been in the game 5-6 yrs. Got 100mil SP with lvl5 in most areas I wanted to. A P2W player can't get any more than lvl5 in that area and if he/she paid to do it then strangely enough I still have the edge cos I have the experience which the P2W player doesn't. That could cost the P2W player 3 times as much replacing his ship and pod before he gains a bit of the experience I have.
2) How is the P2W player paying for this? If he is buying ISK (illegal RMT) then buying the character and ship, he can be found out and banned. If he buys it through CCP (either directly with PLEX/ISK) or via MT, it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever. MT is just a method of getting monies out of players that wish to fast track. There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)
3) If I don't want to buy - I don't HAVE to buy. BUT if I want to buy I can. It would be nice to have that choice. P2W and MT will give me that choice.
However there is a BUT and here it is.
I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.
To summarise
In my current state over over 100mil SP, I have no problem with a new player buying the 100mil SP off CCP - I can practically guarantee that they will lose their ship because I have the experience. Similarly, if a week old player was flying around in a faction BS fitted out with faction gear - I believe (knowing the Eve community as I do) that he would be suicide ganked in hi-sec and primaried in lo/null sec.
That's where I stand, if your interested.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE
Originally by: Klandi it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever.
Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?
Well it would be nice to use the money to fund Eve but we give CCP the money and they do with it as they like.
Originally by: Klandi There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)
It's not an isk sink since the isk remains in the economy just as before.
How exactly?
Originally by: Klandi I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.
I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.
I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Klandi
I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy
Yea, until you can't compete UNLESS you buy.
And that is where it will end, you're a fool if yo believe otherwise.
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Klandi
I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy
Yea, until you can't compete UNLESS you buy.
And that is where it will end, you're a fool if yo believe otherwise.
As I am talking from the perspective of a 100mil SP char. Tell me how I would HAVE to buy to compete
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Hai Boiz
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:32:00 -
[11]
I would consider it a win if I could purchase a nice massage table and a full body rub emote.
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burstup
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:35:00 -
[12]
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:39:00 -
[13]
thanks for the bump plonka
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NARDAC
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:42:00 -
[14]
I am in favor of P2W also. It is going to save me about $600 a year as I've unsubbed all of my accounts.
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.30 22:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Thresh Avery on 30/06/2011 22:46:27 You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.
The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.
Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.
And for what it's worth, i used the above purely as an example. I strongly disagree with advantage-giving MT and won't be buying anything from the NeX store. But if somebody with similar SP/experience as myself or you did, it would de-value mine or your playing experience.
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.30 23:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thresh Avery
You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.
But Avery, time doesn't stand still for me so I would gain more experience as well and the matter of time is like saying to a person 10yrs your senior that you will catch up to them.
Originally by: Thresh Avery
The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.
Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.
Destructive.. not in that way. You know that this environment is "balanced" and even the faction ships on offer regardless of their abilities will give you an additional 10sec life time if you kit them out correctly. However the newbie in this ship doesn't know how to do this so the only destruction will be his - because he has not got the experience. That will be his baptism of fire and it will be a painful. expensive lesson.
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Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.07.01 00:00:00 -
[17]
SO much speculation of what will actually be sold in the Nex. Anyways , even with bought boosting items Eve is dynamic enough and can counter things in many different ways in the end it doesn't matter. Whiners are just whining to whine and speculate.
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.07.01 00:08:00 -
[18]
Don't forget that anyone with money can buy a character. All the newbie needs is a good pvp training corp and he/she will be kicking your ass in no time.
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The Ying
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Posted - 2011.07.01 00:16:00 -
[19]
WHO CARES?
Players that like P2W games play P2W games, now let's change all the **** of this game and make it P2W with no subs..
I played P2W chinese games, surprisingly I got bored very quick. Getting to the top in 2-3 days made me lost interest in these games.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 00:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE
Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?
its not a matter of if you should or shouldnt like it. Its just a fact of the real world. reguardless of what service or product you purchace, your money is going to several unrelated causes/people/products. If you dont like this, you should probably ... hrm... find a deserted island and make your own rules.
Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.
Are you admitting you are mentally incapable of thinking for yourself here?
You're telling me if CCP puts a few shiny objects in a store, its going to force you to buy them? lol.
Dont like it dont ****ing buy it. You can still get any of it with ingame isk.
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Venekar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:11:00 -
[21]
Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
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Hohepa Marstolt
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:11:00 -
[22]
Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.
Dolphins can swim.
But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.
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Hohepa Marstolt
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Venekar Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.
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Bravix
Caldari Dark Circle Enforcement
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.
Dolphins can swim.
But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.
He was referring to a previous post which he failed to quote.
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Hohepa Marstolt
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.
Dolphins can swim.
But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
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Venekar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.
I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
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Hohepa Marstolt
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Hohepa Marstolt on 01/07/2011 01:32:07
Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.
I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.
Alright, you win, I will give you the post I was summing up.
People play games to get away from that type of thing, its called escapism.
I'm guessing your the one that hates people that have, where is your monocle?
America is not special.
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Venekar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
True
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Zag'mar Jurkar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.
Do you even know what a "money sink" is?
Sinking money is to destroy it, get it out of where it exist. Buying PLEX is in no way a "Real Money sink", it goes in CCP's pockets.
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Hohepa Marstolt
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
AFAIK OP still does not know what an isk sink is so anything else she has to say is invalid.
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Valkyrie Avalon
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
#2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.
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Venekar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
AFAIK OP still does not know what an isk sink is so anything else she has to say is invalid.
Your logic is flawed. If I say the earth is flat. Then proceed to say that every body remains in a state of constant velocity unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force. So by your logic because the first statement I made was wrong that makes the second one wrong ?
Any way to much time wasted on this already. I hope CCP makes a killing and every one of them becomes wealthy. A broke developer cant develop. Just go try Earth Rise if you don't believe me. Cheers to CCP and I cant wait to see more from them in the future.
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Zag'mar Jurkar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
About #2. Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon #2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.
That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.
And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.
You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.
This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar About #2. Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.
Refer to #1 as to how the ship doesnt spawn out of thin air. Someone mined, refined, manufactured, and sold that machariel initially. its just going from one person's account to the next.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente New Eden Hitmen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:03:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Atreus Venom on 01/07/2011 02:03:05
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Edited by: Hohepa Marstolt on 01/07/2011 01:32:07
Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.
I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.
Alright, you win, I will give you the post I was summing up.
People play games to get away from that type of thing, its called escapism.
I'm guessing your the one that hates people that have, where is your monocle?
America is not special.
Where are you from? º--Atreus--º
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Venekar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:53:39 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:52:05
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon #2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.
That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.
And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.
You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.
This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.
Nice man so true. Except the fox news part. Making a blanket statement about a news network a cable news one at that has nothing to do with intellect. The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente New Eden Hitmen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:53:39 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:52:05
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon #2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.
That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.
And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.
You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.
This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.
Nice man so true. Except the fox news part. Making a blanket statement about a news network a cable news one at that has nothing to do with intellect. The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.
+1 for peter joseph!!! º--Atreus--º
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Montevius Williams
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:07:00 -
[41]
These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
HAHA - thats funny - Fox News is the Worst.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Venekar The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.
Haha true enough, fox news imo stands out like a sore thumb to me, but i have yet to see a fair and balanced news network anywhere other then Comedy Central's Jon Stewart.
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Vherkin
Amarr War Cake
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:27:03 Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:26:37
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar About #2. Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.
Refer to #1 as to how the ship doesnt spawn out of thin air. Someone mined, refined, manufactured, and sold that machariel initially. its just going from one person's account to the next.
With an exeption... The NeX addition... It is not because something is partially made by a player that is make it is more right for ccp to unbalance a game. A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.
But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.
Originally by: "Venekar" Everything In life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.
Exept you sad person, most thing aren't. When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too. In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you. Because they're rule again that. In these game it is called outright cheating.
Sure, if you play tennis and your rich you can pay up a teacher or a better equipment but the same goes for eve. To play eve, your actual equipment aren't your ship, it's your computer and your internet connection.
That why people are angry again PtW.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:34:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:43:00 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:41:47 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:37:17
Originally by: Vherkin
A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.
But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.
non-vanity items do not give creditcard holders the advantage, as all nex items are available for isk as well. The only thing that comes out of 'thin air' is the actual bonus given to the ship. That is not game-breaking in any way. Does it introduce a bonus 'out of thin air'? Not really. That bonus was purchaced with isk. How is that any different then buying a CNR instead of a regular raven?
Originally by: Vherkin
When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too. In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you.
your examples do not apply here. Take the chess club example. Player1 purchaces his second queen with money. But Player2 can still get a second queen buy spending some 'ingame currency'. (i know theres no ingame currency in chess... which is why your example fails)
Eve is already pay2win
Money > GTC > character+titan Money > 5 monitors 150$ each > 10 accounts 16$ each > multibox software something like 50$ a year > 10 Hulks mining and with the same amount of work as running 1 client.
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Container Storage
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:47:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Container Storage on 01/07/2011 02:47:11
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:37:17
Originally by: Vherkin
A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.
But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.
non-vanity items do not give creditcard holders the advantage, as all nex items are available for isk as well. The only thing that comes out of 'thin air' is the actual bonus given to the ship. That is not game-breaking in any way. Does it introduce a bonus 'out of thin air'? Not really. That bonus was purchaced with isk. How is that any different then buying a CNR instead of a regular raven?
There one, i will explain it really simply. That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did. Hence adding it from thin air because of irl money. While the CNR is coming from a player who only paid for one thing, is subscription. Like everyone else.
The fact it isn't game breaking doesn't matter.
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin
When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too. In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you.
your examples do not apply here. Take the chess club example. Player1 purchaces his second queen with money. But Player2 can still get a second queen buy spending some 'ingame currency'. (i know theres no ingame currency in chess... which is why your example fails)
Actually, there is a currency in chess to get a second queen. It is called a peon. If the peon goes to the other side of the board, he can become any piece you want. People choose usually a queen since it is the most powerfull one. The difference becoming here that the other guys have is queen not because he was able to travers the board but because he paid for it. So does my exemple still fail ?
(Sorry, i forgot to change my character to vherkin, it is me)
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Spyres
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:50:00 -
[46]
We're already paying a subscription FFS! That should be reason enough.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Spyres We're already paying a subscription FFS! That should be reason enough.
nobody is forcing you to pay one cent more. All of this is available with ingame isk. The fact it can be purchaced with IRL money is nothing new as you can already do that via GTC's.
Grow up.
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Container Storage
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:53:00 -
[48]
I can't buy myself bonus from ccp with GTC, the last time i asked they said no
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.
One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.
My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Klandi
Originally by: Thresh Avery
You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.
But Avery, time doesn't stand still for me so I would gain more experience as well and the matter of time is like saying to a person 10yrs your senior that you will catch up to them.
Originally by: Thresh Avery
The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.
Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.
Destructive.. not in that way. You know that this environment is "balanced" and even the faction ships on offer regardless of their abilities will give you an additional 10sec life time if you kit them out correctly. However the newbie in this ship doesn't know how to do this so the only destruction will be his - because he has not got the experience. That will be his baptism of fire and it will be a painful. expensive lesson.
On the first point, i don't strictly agree. Yes you will still be experienced and capable in combat, but there's only so much experience you can gain. Players playing as long as we have - providing they've been PvPing most of that time - has seen all aspects of combat and know how to respond to certain scenarios and how not to panic during battles etc. A player that has bought his SP and ships through MT will soon gain those insights, whereas there's not much more for you or I to gain in terms of experience.
Secondly, you refer to the "newbie" again when my point was that if you're facing an opponent with the same 100mil SP you have and the same level of experience in ship fitting, combat etc that you have, the player with the advantage through P2W items and ships would be more likely to win. And that wouldn't be fair.
The additional 10 sec lifetime argument i agree with, but then that's usually in scenarios where you're outnumbered and no amount of bonuses is going to keep you alive anyway. Either way, we're discussing a very broad topic without defining the boundaries of discussion, so either of us could argue their points and still be right.
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Vherkin
Amarr War Cake
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:55:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.
One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.
My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.
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Spyres
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:04:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Spyres on 01/07/2011 03:08:07
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Grow up.
Still butt hurt about that monocle is see.
Edit: the OP's title is P2W referring to game-affecting items FYI, hardly optional if it takes hold and becomes the norm.
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Container Storage
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Spyres
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Grow up.
Still butt hurt about that monocle is see.
Come on, that just low
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:07:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Vherkin Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.
One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.
My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.
There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.
Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.
It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.
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Blood Fart
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:20:00 -
[55]
I too look forward to the P2W items.
I cannot wait for the boosters that will make me invulnerable to other players. Level 5s in a rattlesnake here I come!
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Orlacc
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:49:00 -
[56]
P2W will not occur. It has not in any major MMO that offers micro-transactions.
But that doesn't stop the hysterical chicken-littles.
On the other hand, isn't running 4 or 5 accounts P2W?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf.
Incorrect.
Table salt is usually washed, filtered and refined. What you get in the shaker is mostly white sodium chloride crystals of a consistent size.
Sea salt is simply extracted from sea water by evaporation. What you get in the grinder is sodium chloride, potassium chloride, other salts, chemicals resulting from the decay of fish or plants, and other traces that stayed in suspension during the evaporation process.
Thus sea salt has different flavours, colours, and textures.
Surely someone as refined as yourself should understand the difference?
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Da Gooch
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Posted - 2011.07.01 04:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
Oh do us all a favor and shut up Mr.Clueless
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Zag'mar Jurkar
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Posted - 2011.07.01 04:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.
One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.
My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.
There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.
Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.
It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.
If a ship is sold at always the same price, the same ship you were buying on the market a week ago, it will take away the ask and demands and that said ship would never have to be sold higher than the one from NeX from anywhere otherwise people will just go there for a fresh-outofthebox cheaper ship.
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Vherkin
Amarr War Cake
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Posted - 2011.07.01 04:41:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 04:41:53
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.
One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.
My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.
There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.
Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.
It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.
Ho yes it is, even if it isn't game breaking. The spawning of belts, npcs, isks, bounty, ship bonus, modules, stats and other are the rules that the game follows. They are the same for everyone. But PtW is paying to change the rule, even slightly, to your advantage. And that my friend is unacceptable, even if you aren't the one one who paid directly with your irl money.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.01 04:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity The fact it can be purchaced with IRL money is nothing new as you can already do that via GTC's.
ISK for GTC is a finite market. Dollars for power items through NeX is an infinite supply situation.
More about this issue in an existing thread, BTW. [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Rosa Cardenalis
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Posted - 2011.07.01 05:07:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Terminal Insanity The fact it can be purchaced with IRL money is nothing new as you can already do that via GTC's.
ISK for GTC is a finite market. Dollars for power items through NeX is an infinite supply situation.
More about this issue in an existing thread, BTW.
Not if it requires in game items as well as cash or isk...
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:37:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Thresh Avery
Secondly, you refer to the "newbie" again when my point was that if you're facing an opponent with the same 100mil SP you have and the same level of experience in ship fitting, combat etc that you have, the player with the advantage through P2W items and ships would be more likely to win. And that wouldn't be fair.
Avery, the person that is most likely to want to take the fast track SP route would be newbies. But to focus on your example. Would you purchase a faction ship and fit it for cash? If you did, wouldn't you think twice about taking it into an engagement because you would be thinking that this ship cost me $50, not it cost me 8bil ISK. To follow on with that train of thought, if it was used in a defensive engagement, there is a high probability that your actions of purchasing a faction ship will make you primary and its capability would be a moot point.
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Govinda Sertan
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:40:00 -
[64]
I agree with P2W too. CCP has to earn money no ?
We all agree to have to pay money to play isn'it ?
So, if I want to spend more money to buy ships, special ammo, SPs, etc... I should can.
If there is a demand, there should be an offer.
Stop listening to all the poor players CCP, they cant make you live. Attract more rich player by making us pay more !
Make youre game worth the work !
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Maa Ku
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:42:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
The key here is point "1)". If this holds true then everything say is bang on the money.
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Tagarr Nolen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:47:00 -
[66]
I cant spend hours a day to earn ISKs, and I dont want to wait months to have fun.
Please CCP, sell SPs, sell good ships, weapons, etc... so we can all have fun !
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.
And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.
You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.
This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.
Where all the desire to bring P2W into Eve comes from? Probably because you aren't smart enough to be good using the means Eve offers you already? Or, may be feeling insecure and wanting to show the world that you succeeded in life because you can spend meager $70 on a useless bunch of pixels called monocle? I hope when you grow up you'll understand that $70 is not a lot and can't be shown as a token of wealth or success.
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Xydonus Xavior
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:12:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Xydonus Xavior on 01/07/2011 10:15:48 Edited by: Xydonus Xavior on 01/07/2011 10:13:43
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;
1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'
2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.
3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)
4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)
I don't see why that can't work. The P2W is already in place in another format yet people don't seem to realize it. However CCP do need to bring their prices down slightly for it to appeal to a wider area of customers.
I firmly believe CCP really cares about EVE despite what others are saying. Yes they screw up and end up shooting themselves in the face from time to time, but for a company to disregard EVE and simply move onto other games and completely neglect EVE (as others have said) is corporate suicide. Although others have performed corporate suicide without knowing it, such as Realtime Worlds.
CCP made the PR mistake of coming out and saying 'We have no plans for micro-transactions in EVE at this time', then of course they implemented it. What they should have said is 'We're going to remain open to all possibilities' or just disregard the question altogether. Most of the outrage, at least the CSM outrage as I understand, comes from the fact that CCP bypassed them altogether and didn't seek their advice. I doubt they'll be making that mistake again.
The root of the problems stems from the faceless men in suits... All you have to do is read Mittani's tweets to understand that. When ever CCP writes a dev blog or communicates with the community via the forums, their doing it without directly facing the community. Nothing can be done about that, but when you go to meet them in person and deal with them in a direct manner, situation quickly changes.
Everyone is quick to insult/flame/troll someone behind the safety of the keyboard, do that though when you're facing someone and you face social consequences compared to what you would on the forums. A lot of hatred comes from the fact that CCP are mostly faceless and that leads to mistrust, all embedded into the human psyche.
All this nonsense about MT is just that, nonsense. If CCP can implement non-vanity items without messing up the economy, and lets face it, yes they can, with a little bit of research and opinions/advice from the community they bloody well can. Nothing is impossible. Vanity items are here to stay and while I particularly dislike games with subs that have MT in them however I can live with it if it doesn't force me to buy any of their products. MT is not one-dimensional. There is many aspects to it.
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