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Zanthiuse
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:26:00 -
[1]
Alright, this had been said many times, i know. But it seems it can't be said to many times. I just killed somone mining in a dom in .4 (i'm not naming him because this isn't about me bragging). Over the course of the 5 or so minutes it took my rax to chew through his armor and shields, i tried to convo him twice, both of the times he refused. This has annoyed me enough to prompt this post. So i killed him. Assuming he was fully insured he lost 25 mil between insurance and basic equipment (miner 2's). I charge 5-15 mil on a ransom for a dom, depending on if the player acts like an ass and smacks. So for this guy probably 5. So, 5 mil or 25 mil? but that's not all. He had 2 24% expanders on his ship (maybe more). Those are about 10mil each if memory serves, and got one. So, 5mil or 45mil? As it turns out i got 10, and he lost 45. wtf? So say i was a dishonerable pirate who would take his money and kill him anyway...then it's 5mil or 30/50mil. Still a massive difference. Comon people, i don't care if you are anti pirate. It's a massive waste of your money to not pay my ransom, it encourages gankers if you don't pay the ransom, and it makes me feel bad because i don't seek to do so much financial damage (makes me feel kinda bad too.) [/rant] ____________________________ Waiting to cut out the deadwood. Waiting to clean up the city. Waiting to follow the worms. |
rockboy
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:39:00 -
[2]
**** you.
don't let the terrorists win!
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:44:00 -
[3]
heh... maby they will learn
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Zanthiuse
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:45:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:45:33
Originally by: rockboy **** you.
don't let the terrorists win!
you are the only person who losses if you don't pay a ransom (in general, doesn't mean you can be dumb about it.) I presented the logical reasons why in my post. If people are not paying for rp reasons, that's understandable. But if people will lose 50mil to keep a pirate from 5mil is stupid and immature. ____________________________ Waiting to cut out the deadwood. Waiting to clean up the city. Waiting to follow the worms. |
Trepkos
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Zanthiuse Alright, this had been said many times, i know. But it seems it can't be said to many times. I just killed somone mining in a dom in .4 (i'm not naming him because this isn't about me bragging). Over the course of the 5 or so minutes it took my rax to chew through his armor and shields, i tried to convo him twice, both of the times he refused. This has annoyed me enough to prompt this post. So i killed him. Assuming he was fully insured he lost 25 mil between insurance and basic equipment (miner 2's). I charge 5-15 mil on a ransom for a dom, depending on if the player acts like an ass and smacks. So for this guy probably 5. So, 5 mil or 25 mil? but that's not all. He had 2 24% expanders on his ship (maybe more). Those are about 10mil each if memory serves, and got one. So, 5mil or 45mil? As it turns out i got 10, and he lost 45. wtf? So say i was a dishonerable pirate who would take his money and kill him anyway...then it's 5mil or 30/50mil. Still a massive difference. Comon people, i don't care if you are anti pirate. It's a massive waste of your money to not pay my ransom, it encourages gankers if you don't pay the ransom, and it makes me feel bad because i don't seek to do so much financial damage (makes me feel kinda bad too.) [/rant]
Yeeeeeah.....Nice kill by the way. For only playing as long as you have, very nice kill. ------------------ What can I lose? My dignity...every single inch of it.
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Trepkos
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zanthiuse Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:45:33
Originally by: rockboy **** you.
don't let the terrorists win!
you are the only person who losses if you don't pay a ransom (in general, doesn't mean you can be dumb about it.) I presented the logical reasons why in my post. If people are not paying for rp reasons, that's understandable. But if people will lose 50mil to keep a pirate from 5mil is stupid and immature.
Was he the guy you killed? ------------------ What can I lose? My dignity...every single inch of it.
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Zanthiuse
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Posted - 2005.02.23 02:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:54:12 Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:52:43
Originally by: Trepkos
Originally by: Zanthiuse Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:45:33
Originally by: rockboy **** you.
don't let the terrorists win!
you are the only person who losses if you don't pay a ransom (in general, doesn't mean you can be dumb about it.) I presented the logical reasons why in my post. If people are not paying for rp reasons, that's understandable. But if people will lose 50mil to keep a pirate from 5mil is stupid and immature.
Was he the guy you killed?
no. And thanks for the compliment, but i can't take credit. This is not my only character. It's not an alt, as i currently play this one just as much, but my other one has been around about 9 or so months. I created this one to get comfortable with pvp and learn piracy as an alternative to mining and missions. I hope to get abit of a reputation, then join a pirate corp with my main. It's difficult to get a reputation as an honest pirate though. ____________________________ Waiting to cut out the deadwood. Waiting to clean up the city. Waiting to follow the worms. |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:03:00 -
[8]
You're very lucky that he didnt just laugh at you and log.
I think the ratio of ships that log to ships that pay ransoms has to be in the 3:1 or 4:1 area for me now.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:03:00 -
[9]
The two reasons for me usually telling a pirate to go blow when a ransom is demanded of me are:
1. The first two times I payed ransoms I was gunned down after sending the isk. So not only did I lose the isk for the ransoms but my ship as well.
2. Asking a player for stupid amounts of isk (ie 50 mil). This happened to me when I was flying a rupture about a month ago. If I had 50 mil isk do you think I would be flying this trash can?!
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:04:00 -
[10]
Sometimes it is a trust thing. There have been cases in the past where people paid and the pirate blew them up anyways. Other cases it could be one of honor, which they would rather die than see you profit off of them. Just depends on what the people think. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
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GBBUTT
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:06:00 -
[11]
Heh if someone ransomed me they would have to kill me. I never have more than 50k lying about at any one time. Its usually sitting in commodities like ammo and cargo containers which i resell. i dont genrally mine in systems where i have assests other than my minerals. So i wouldnt be able to pay. so i pitty the first pirate that trie to ransom me. Most likely spend more on ammo killing me than he'd make from my gear (im from scottish decent >:)
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Zanthiuse
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MooKids Sometimes it is a trust thing. There have been cases in the past where people paid and the pirate blew them up anyways. Other cases it could be one of honor, which they would rather die than see you profit off of them. Just depends on what the people think.
i understand this of course. I'd just encourage people to pay instead. I know there is no way to confirm that the person would let you go, but usally you can get atleast abit of an idea if you have said more than afew words to them. Also i think the losses arn't that much more if you do pay, and it's worth the chance imo.
I am surprised he didn't log, and i admire that he didn't take advantage of that and that he did not smack. If i had lost a bs that way i would have been incredibly mad. ____________________________ Waiting to cut out the deadwood. Waiting to clean up the city. Waiting to follow the worms. |
Zanthiuse
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Posted - 2005.02.23 03:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: GBBUTT Heh if someone ransomed me they would have to kill me. I never have more than 50k lying about at any one time. Its usually sitting in commodities like ammo and cargo containers which i resell. i dont genrally mine in systems where i have assests other than my minerals. So i wouldnt be able to pay. so i pitty the first pirate that trie to ransom me. Most likely spend more on ammo killing me than he'd make from my gear (im from scottish decent >:)
i don't think anybody i going to get annoyed about you not paying ransom if you don't have it, and i know some people who will let people go if they are fairly sure the person doesn't have the cash. I've let several people go. You can't always be sure, but if they are a couple weeks old and using light missles on a caracal it's not hard to tell, that sort of thing. Or if i really don't know, i flip a coin. ____________________________ Waiting to cut out the deadwood. Waiting to clean up the city. Waiting to follow the worms. |
Legenda
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Posted - 2005.02.23 06:16:00 -
[14]
I dont pay .....,EVER .....
I have/make enough cash to replace whatever i loose ....,simple as that ....
There are to many scumbags flying arround who will blow you up after you payed so why wasting more by paying...
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rockboy
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Posted - 2005.02.23 06:38:00 -
[15]
hi Xanth,
I didn't mean **** you like **** you, you're an *******, I mean **** you like giving in to extortion is always a loss. For instance, the main problem with your math is that it only holds up when you are the only aggressor. An environment in which caving in to thieves and exortionists is the norm becomes, of course, exponentially more expensive for the people getting bullied, while becoming possibly less lucrative for the extortionist. It's a classic unsustainable market.
So, those of us who work for our money will succeed over time only by discouraging (keeping the profit down and the barrier to entry high) extortionists.
I'm totally not defending the dumbass who was solo mining in .4 - that's just indefensible. But you can't do the calculations from the point of the extortionist without also counting in the cost over time to the victim.
So, for instance, my goofy ass mining corp is at war right now with a harcore pvp xCA corp. We can't possibly win, really, but we're doing it because they ganked one of our members at a gate to a system we like to mine in. It is our responsibility to defend, with force, our right to mine in low-sec space. We _could_ just give in, but every time you give in,
THE TERRORISTS WIN |
MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.02.23 06:47:00 -
[16]
wow. way too much caffeine in this thread ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.02.23 06:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: rockboy THE TERRORISTS WIN
Indeed, but depending on your team, it could also be sometimes COUNTER-TERRORISTS WIN
Sorry.. couldn't resist myself. But on ransom side, don't pay. I will prolly pay if they web my pod and ransom then because we all know how much it costs for full set of implants _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Pa1nbringr
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Posted - 2005.02.23 07:42:00 -
[18]
heh getting people to pay a ransom at this time in the game is almost impossible, there are tons of retards who blow people up after they even pay the ransom and basicly ruins it for anyone who tries to really ransom someone ----------------------
Fedaykin Naib > eh this is boring, think im going to go choke one out Pa1nbringr > sick Fedaykin Naib > lol
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.02.23 09:12:00 -
[19]
My personal favourite are the ppl who convo you after you kill and pod them asking why you didn't demand a ransom. ----------------------------------------- Heinky> Dont mix eve with rl it can be bad for your health |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.02.23 09:47:00 -
[20]
If you want ransoms you need to toll pods. A lot of people stating "i would never pay, donŠt help the terrorists!" suddenly love to pay once some neutron blasters aim at their pod. An implant set is expensive these days...
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.02.23 10:44:00 -
[21]
this will seem weird, by I hoped I'd get ransomed someday to break off th boredom. Instead, my only meeting with empire pirates was some gank attempt that failed miserably (go-go itty power!).
Ofc we must bear in mind the silly rules that turn possible ransom situations into pure gankfests. Nobody wins in this scenario.
And hell yeah, If you'd blow me up without asking for ransom I'd convo you and lecture you on "missing out business opportunities"
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.02.23 10:56:00 -
[22]
I disagree Lifewire; I think so many people don't have implants nowadays there's no point ransoming pods. People just use the logic that implants are too expensive to lose, or perhaps they just do a lot of podjumping. Either way, if someone ransomed my pod I'd laugh, as it's just a shortcut for me that I'd otherwise have to crawl through at 180m/s. If someone ransomed my ship... I probably have expensive mods or some kind of emotional atachement to the smell.
Zanthiuse, I reckon you should try joining a well known pirate corp (although you already said this is what you're trying to do ) because victims might trust you more for it. They'd know you would keep your word if the ransom is paid, because they'd know your corp wouldn't want to lose face. Lone pirates are never trusted (nor should they be, without backup they should be killed like the easy pickings they are ) ------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
Ivilb Itch
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Posted - 2005.02.23 11:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters You're very lucky that he didnt just laugh at you and log.
I think the ratio of ships that log to ships that pay ransoms has to be in the 3:1 or 4:1 area for me now.
Cry me a river ________________________________
Victim of unnatural selection |
AdraunSunstar
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Posted - 2005.02.23 11:26:00 -
[24]
i saw that 3 of the 4 top postshad me as recent replyer so i had to make myself feel important with 4/4
seriously tho, i agree logging is noobish, i personally dont log (if i ctd i have a good enough comp to come back before i dissapear,, dosent happen often enough to mention tho)
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Naqq
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Posted - 2005.02.23 11:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zanthiuse Edited by: Zanthiuse on 23/02/2005 02:45:33
Originally by: rockboy **** you.
don't let the terrorists win!
you are the only person who losses if you don't pay a ransom (in general, doesn't mean you can be dumb about it.) I presented the logical reasons why in my post. If people are not paying for rp reasons, that's understandable. But if people will lose 50mil to keep a pirate from 5mil is stupid and immature.
Well he didn't even do that did he? Offen when killing a battleship you get atleast ~5m in looted modules. -- "Yarrr..." [FRIG] promotional video|Training film #1|Training film #2| |Newsreels: #1,#2,#3(NEW).| |
Plague Black
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Posted - 2005.02.23 11:56:00 -
[26]
Oh, great, now you have opened my eyes man!!! It makes perfect sense to pay you right away! I have even better proposal. We could all send you isk in advance just in case you might fly by so that noone looses time in scrambling, webbing, negotiating... How about 5m isk a day? Would you like that? And you could sit in your station and do nothing, a real pyjama-pirate.
Well since your braincells seem busy with something else then thinking let me chew this up for you: SOME PEOPLE WOULD RATHER LOOSE ALL THEY HAVE THEN PAY A CRIMINAL LIKE YOU! Was that clear enough or should I increase the font size? You think they are stupid? Well, you are allowed to have your opinion mate... Well I think pirating on miners and undefended cargo ships is for 'girls', and I'm not talking about gender.
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AdraunSunstar
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Posted - 2005.02.23 12:09:00 -
[27]
plauge shut up,, you just make yourself look like a noob when you take something purley objectional and add emotion to it. Get some braincells of yer own,
and before you call me a pirate,, im not anymore just to clarify
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2005.02.23 12:12:00 -
[28]
AS Lifewire said ...... since CCP nuffed the pirates by making Battlships free (with a little insuance) 99.9999% of the time there is no point in paying a ransom unless your sitting in your pod.
Mongo speaks !!
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.02.23 12:21:00 -
[29]
My 2 cents:
Ransom depends on the situation.
Not everyone mounts implants these days. Destroy the ship and you may have destroyed the incentive to pay.
Also on the ship: Replacing ships can be a pain, not always tha cost, but simply the time/effort. Again, destroy the ship and you've destroyed another possible incentive to pay.
If implants are fitted, it depends on the player's view of them. If the player is wise, they are not a big factor (only a fool uses toys that would upset himself by losing....)
And then there is the BIG factor: Confidence of survival AFTER paying. This reason ALONE is enough for me to never pay. Simply put, I figure the odds are about 80% that a player will be pod killed after paying.
Manners can also be a factor. Paying a smack talker is less likely. Even a player suspected of smack, in game or in forum, is less likely.
And then there is attitude: Some folks just don't accept extortion ever, not even when it is the cheaper option.
Bottom line:
Until something is done to give a victim confidence that he will survive after paying, the sutuation will only get worse for ransom. As it stands now, there is a strong likelyhood of getting killed after paying and people know it.
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Dezzereth
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Posted - 2005.02.23 12:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mongo Peck AS Lifewire said ...... since CCP nuffed the pirates by making Battlships free (with a little insuance) 99.9999% of the time there is no point in paying a ransom unless your sitting in your pod.
Free? Well you dont seem to watch the market lately. Last time I lost a BS (Apoc) it was over 60 mill loss. And that was with not too much fancy stuff on it. Could we please stop this crappy myth about "nothing is lost if you lose a BS"?.... PLEASE!
-- TOSGI Homepage -- |
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