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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.07 22:34:00 -
[1]
It's a dream team setup, since some of the "this person will be able to fly X -and- Y" suggestions are fairly ridiculous, but assuming you had nothing but all Vs folks in the relevant skills...
[Archon, C5 Triage]
Capital Energy Transfer Array I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Triage Module I
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Einherji x10 Curator II x10 Garde II x10
[Bhaalgorn, C5 Webber]
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner True Sansha Stasis Webifier True Sansha Stasis Webifier True Sansha Stasis Webifier True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates Federation Navy 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
[Abaddon, C5 DPS]
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
[Revelation, C5 DPS]
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL Siege Module I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Capital Armor Repairer I /OFFLINE Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Curator II x5 Garde II x5
[Noctis, Noctis, Wreckball Eater]
Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Medium Salvage Tackle I Medium Salvage Tackle I Medium Salvage Tackle I
[Rorqual, C5 Wreckball]
Capital Tractor Beam I Capital Tractor Beam I Capital Tractor Beam I Capital Tractor Beam I Capital Tractor Beam I Capital Tractor Beam I
Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Curator II x5
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.07 22:39:00 -
[2]
So with the above team you have 6 pilots.
Archon warps in, hits the first escalation wave and triages as everybody lands (in Bhaalgorn + 4 x Abaddon). You wipe first escalation wave - on last BS, the first Abaddon pilot warps out and comes back in with a Revelation just in time to pop the next cap escalation wave. He goes siege green and you burn down that wave, as you hit the last BS, the next Abaddon pilot trades out for another Revelation and spawns a third wave. You start burning that down, and near the end both the remaining Abaddons flop out, one for the DPS Thanny and one for the Rorqual (to start wreckballing).
Once the site is mostly wreckballed, the Rorq pilot grabs the Noctis and once the last escalation is cleared he warps in and noms his wreckball.
Rorqual is of course optional - you could really have anybody swap out for the Noctis. This merely lets you minimize loot time, in theory, since you're combat looting.
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Nita Talmage
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Posted - 2011.07.07 23:14:00 -
[3]
My corp also runs c5 anoms and sites with a similar setup, but we NEVER have to triage either carrier.
You have all the necessary ships, just the wrong order.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.07 23:17:00 -
[4]
I take it you pop both carriers in at once then, and rr/re them together for massive cap generation?
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Jenifer Kira
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Posted - 2011.07.07 23:22:00 -
[5]
No, you WILL lose both carriers that way.
You already know that a rorq does not cause an escalation.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 00:54:00 -
[6]
Ah, that's right... but then wouldn't you have to run a shield gang?
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De BuG2
The Fendahlian Collective
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Posted - 2011.07.08 08:13:00 -
[7]
Can that revelation even hit those BS's in siege? |
James Arget
Caldari Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
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Posted - 2011.07.08 08:48:00 -
[8]
Quote: The Vigilant was the first Gallente design the Guardian Angels would steal and make their own, but it wouldn't be the last. Building on the Thorax's natural strengths, it is a deadly vessel both by itself and in fleet tandem. A group of these sluggers is a sight to fear.
Special Ability: 75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff per level Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
Seeing a Sleepless Guardian moving at 4 m/s is a beautiful thing. |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:31:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 12:32:43
Originally by: De BuG2 Can that revelation even hit those BS's in siege?
Yep.
ED: Oh, and we considered the Vigilant, but decided that it wasn't worth it with the group we have (even though I can fly the Vigilant with the requisite skills to 5). If we had a triage archon to feed it cap, maybe, but for now we've actually got reversed roles and the thanatos is triaging while our archon only provides drone dps. |
De BuG2
The Fendahlian Collective
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:45:00 -
[10]
Me and my corp are currently planning to run 2 dread and 2 carrier escalations in our C5, 2 naglfar's and 2 chimera's, our plan was to go for the carriers in triage and the dreads in siege, then send them in pretty much the same as you do, are target painters and webbers mandatory? or can the dreads hit without them? |
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 17:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 17:29:38 The webs are strictly mandatory for sieged dreads to do reasonable damage (my experience has shown that you (with the bhaalgorn I provided) dump 2 webs on target A and 2 on target B, basically chaining your webs so that (optimally) you always have one of the sleepers down to about 20m/s.
The TPs definitely help a lot, I'm not sure they're necessary.
EDIT: We're actually toying with a Loki instead of the Bhaalgorn, since you can get similar EHP in a cruiser-sig-radius package, with a little extra web range to boot. The main downside is a lower damage envelope. |
De BuG2
The Fendahlian Collective
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Posted - 2011.07.08 18:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 17:29:38 The webs are strictly mandatory for sieged dreads to do reasonable damage (my experience has shown that you (with the bhaalgorn I provided) dump 2 webs on target A and 2 on target B, basically chaining your webs so that (optimally) you always have one of the sleepers down to about 20m/s.
The TPs definitely help a lot, I'm not sure they're necessary.
EDIT: We're actually toying with a Loki instead of the Bhaalgorn, since you can get similar EHP in a cruiser-sig-radius package, with a little extra web range to boot. The main downside is a lower damage envelope.
I see, we actually have a Loki on hand too. anyway, many thanks for all your help, i spent hours thinking about it |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 20:02:00 -
[13]
Huginn.
Bhaal webs to at best around 30km, Loki even less. If you can manage it the ships with the 90% strength bonus will be effective, but are limited by range. I've heard people using Daredevils in Wolf Rayets. |
Nita Talmage
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Posted - 2011.07.08 22:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Nita Talmage on 08/07/2011 22:56:11 Shield tank the webber and the rorq. The rest don't matter.
Use the rorq for gang bonuses. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.07.09 02:05:00 -
[15]
Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.
Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?
We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.09 15:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nita Talmage Edited by: Nita Talmage on 08/07/2011 22:56:11 Shield tank the webber and the rorq. The rest don't matter.
Use the rorq for gang bonuses.
How do you get enough webs on a shield tanked webber? Our math shows we need -at least- 3 webs, optimally more.
Originally by: Durzel Huginn.
Bhaal webs to at best around 30km, Loki even less. If you can manage it the ships with the 90% strength bonus will be effective, but are limited by range. I've heard people using Daredevils in Wolf Rayets.
You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.
I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.
Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?
We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.
Are you in a hole with an effect that benefits RR, or provides additional resistances? I'm not actually convinced triage is strictly necessary even without these benefits, but it certainly helps; I think mostly for us triage is a holdover from the days when we were running nightmares (which desperately needed it, because 100k ehp on a BS sig is not enough).
Also, it sounds like you're not using the dreadnaughts to actually DPS; is this accurate? because we've found that sieged dreadnaughts with 2-3 webs on a target absolutely demolish escalations - so much so that i believe it would be feasible to run both dreadnaught escalations simultaneously if you had two lokis with 3 webs each (one tackling for each dread). |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.09 16:37:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Durzel on 09/07/2011 16:37:22
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.
I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.
Honestly I haven't. Huginn with Recon 5 and Fed Navy webbers webs out to 56km before any gang links. Loki w/Immobility Drivers will do half that. Huginn has 60% bonused webbing per level, Loki has 30%. Sleepless Guardians orbit at 35km and will often spawn further than that.
As for tank, it doesn't get much aggro. It's tried and tested. |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.09 18:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Durzel Edited by: Durzel on 09/07/2011 16:37:22
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.
I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.
Honestly I haven't. Huginn with Recon 5 and Fed Navy webbers webs out to 56km before any gang links. Loki w/Immobility Drivers will do half that. Huginn has 60% bonused webbing per level, Loki has 30%. Sleepless Guardians orbit at 35km and will often spawn further than that.
As for tank, it doesn't get much aggro. It's tried and tested.
I really meant Loki > Bhaalgorn range-wise, I don't know how I managed to say Huginn.
And our experience has been that the webbers get a LOT of aggro, so maybe we're just unlucky? |
James Arget
Caldari Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
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Posted - 2011.07.09 21:44:00 -
[19]
Rapier>Huginn, the extra low slot makes it quite a bit beefier. However, we've just seen that Golem>Rapier as well, since you have plentiful mids. DPS/Web Lokis are also nice, to tap the brakes on the sleepers which aren't getting pirate webs, and because they can mop up frigs/cruisers. |
Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.07.09 22:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.
Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?
We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.
Then you're not finishing these in under 12 mins. |
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:23:00 -
[21]
FWIW, we were able to do this with 4 characters the other day.
Triage archon came in first, all 3 others came in with buffer abaddons.
We burned down the wave, dropped 2 of the abaddons for loki and revelation.
burned that wave, dropped last abaddon for a moros.
burned that wave, swapped moros for a thanatos (we don't have another abaddon pilot that can also fly a carrier, or we'd have had the moros stay in instead of swapping).
took about an hour to do with this setup. I think we can make things a lot smoother than we did, especially when we move to rapier (which definitely looks viable in an armor tanking configuration with 4 webs, 1 tp, 1 ab).
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McGee McGee
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Posted - 2011.07.14 02:47:00 -
[22]
I was always under the impression that you could not use the same race ship to spawn both waves. For example, if you use an Archon to spawn the first carrier wave, the 2nd carrier needs to be a Thanatos, Nidhoggur, or Chimera - another Archon won't do it.
I may be incorrect?
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 09:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: McGee McGee I was always under the impression that you could not use the same race ship to spawn both waves. For example, if you use an Archon to spawn the first carrier wave, the 2nd carrier needs to be a Thanatos, Nidhoggur, or Chimera - another Archon won't do it.
I may be incorrect?
2 x Carriers 2 x Dreads
Can be any race, but it has to be that combination in any order. First Carrier/Dread will spawn 6, second (of its class) will spawn 8.
Carrier/Dread/Carrier/Dread = 6/6/8/8 Carrier/Dread/Dread/Carrier = 6/6/8/8 Carrier/Carrier/Dread/Dread = 6/8/6/8
Obviously the sooner the Dread(s) are there the better. Carrier has to go first obviously to be able to keep the subcaps alive.
Note that 3rd, 4th, etc carrier or dread doesn't create more escalations so you could warp 10 Dreads in after the first one is already there and you'd still only get +8 Guardians.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:29:00 -
[24]
FWIW carrier/dread/dread/carrier is imho best option.
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