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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
T1nyMan
Interstellar Solutions Agency
32
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Posted - 2012.11.24 14:17:00 -
[961] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Meldorn Vaash wrote:Fozzie,
Are you still evaluating and tweaking ships at this point or have you locked everything down for Retribution's deployment? Your dev blog seems to suggest you're done for now. At this point we're generally in bugfix and polish mode for Retri, although we do have lots of chances to tweak things in the new year if we see the need once they're all out in the wild. This is more ships than we've ever rebalanced at once so we're going into it expecting that there will need to be some follow-up. The number one thing CCP needs to make sure you don't do is do this rebalance wave and then think "Alright thats done, on to other stuff" You WILL need to go back and take a look at the ships that are left behind such as the rifter... And it would be nice if some amarr ships could be rebalanced to work without a fleet.. So far Amarr have been the big losers of this rebalance as the amarr ships have been the worst of the bunch in almost every single class.
Those cocky rich bastards can afford their own balancing team :) |
Ningishzida
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2
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Posted - 2012.11.24 18:44:00 -
[962] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Meldorn Vaash wrote:Fozzie,
Are you still evaluating and tweaking ships at this point or have you locked everything down for Retribution's deployment? Your dev blog seems to suggest you're done for now. At this point we're generally in bugfix and polish mode for Retri, although we do have lots of chances to tweak things in the new year if we see the need once they're all out in the wild. This is more ships than we've ever rebalanced at once so we're going into it expecting that there will need to be some follow-up. That's nice to know as i expect the stabber will need a dronebay again at some point :)
After EFT warrior-ing most of the cruisers I fear giving the Stabber a droneday won't be enough to bring it up to par with f.e. the Thorax. It needs a dronebay, a 5th turret and more PG to actually make use of more than 4 highslots. |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
1
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Posted - 2012.11.26 02:31:00 -
[963] - Quote
There has to be some decent concept around it so it is not just some sort of a thorax clone. I am kind of confused over the concept if it is really to be a "Vagabond-Lite" or a special "Light Cruiser" of its own. Let's not forget that not having cap necessary for ACs is alredy an advantage.
Then again, all seems to lead to "Stabber not doing enough damage". I'd prefer the utility stuff like Falloff range - that change alone is already awesome.
If one were to add a 5th Turret slot, then I'd actually like to see the Stabber be a real Light Cruiser: speedy, light/more agile, for less HP.
I'd not want to see dronebay expanded. That should be an exclusive for Stabber Fleet Issue. That is not for me to decide though. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2480
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Posted - 2012.11.26 10:19:00 -
[964] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Meldorn Vaash wrote:Fozzie,
Are you still evaluating and tweaking ships at this point or have you locked everything down for Retribution's deployment? Your dev blog seems to suggest you're done for now. At this point we're generally in bugfix and polish mode for Retri, although we do have lots of chances to tweak things in the new year if we see the need once they're all out in the wild. This is more ships than we've ever rebalanced at once so we're going into it expecting that there will need to be some follow-up. The number one thing CCP needs to make sure you don't do is do this rebalance wave and then think "Alright thats done, on to other stuff" You WILL need to go back and take a look at the ships that are left behind such as the rifter... And it would be nice if some amarr ships could be rebalanced to work without a fleet.. So far Amarr have been the big losers of this rebalance as the amarr ships have been the worst of the bunch in almost every single class. I heard from a CCP blue post they have something in mind for the rifter still for this release? can a blue confirm?
We don't have any Rifter changes coming in Retri. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
157
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Posted - 2012.11.26 11:04:00 -
[965] - Quote
Why would the Rifter need a rebalance again? |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.11.26 12:09:00 -
[966] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Meldorn Vaash wrote:Fozzie,
Are you still evaluating and tweaking ships at this point or have you locked everything down for Retribution's deployment? Your dev blog seems to suggest you're done for now. At this point we're generally in bugfix and polish mode for Retri, although we do have lots of chances to tweak things in the new year if we see the need once they're all out in the wild. This is more ships than we've ever rebalanced at once so we're going into it expecting that there will need to be some follow-up. The number one thing CCP needs to make sure you don't do is do this rebalance wave and then think "Alright thats done, on to other stuff" You WILL need to go back and take a look at the ships that are left behind such as the rifter... And it would be nice if some amarr ships could be rebalanced to work without a fleet.. So far Amarr have been the big losers of this rebalance as the amarr ships have been the worst of the bunch in almost every single class. I heard from a CCP blue post they have something in mind for the rifter still for this release? can a blue confirm? We don't have any Rifter changes coming in Retri.
What about Post-Retri? |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
859
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Posted - 2012.11.26 12:28:00 -
[967] - Quote
^ I heard they are doing a lego polish and overhaul to the rifter, that is a buff to look forward to, if there is one. I'm not shitposting. |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
1
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Posted - 2012.11.26 16:45:00 -
[968] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Why would the Rifter need a rebalance again?
Slasher and Breacher took (or will be taking) over its capabilities somewhat, making another check worthwhile. IIRC, Rifter and Slasher have the same bonuses.
There was a posting somewhere about something nice n special for Rifter coming, but looking now at blue comment - either its a surprise or nada. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
230
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:55:00 -
[969] - Quote
TBH the rifter sort of lost its roll with the slasher that simply does the same thing but better.
Would be interesting as an arty platform i guess? that way it wouldn't be exactly the same as the slasher but worse. |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.11.27 11:12:00 -
[970] - Quote
Nice to see all the same faces
See you all again on the Combat frig forum. |
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Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.11.27 14:37:00 -
[971] - Quote
Stabber is so bad.
Sadface. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
634
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Posted - 2012.11.27 19:27:00 -
[972] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Cyanerd wrote:Are the navy faction equivilants of these ships being left unchanged? Caracal Navy Issue for example. The navy versions aren't being changed in Retribution, but they will be changed. when when!!!!!!! :) My ENI wants to know when it can come out of the hangar again! Please, for my ENI, make it sooner rather than later.
What's the schedule? Tech 1 BC/BS, then Empire Faction, or T2, or both? |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
255
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Posted - 2012.11.30 14:45:00 -
[973] - Quote
I tried to fit up an armor Stabber...
I felt very good about having a versatile hull capable of being used in many kinds of fleets and not only shield. I have perfect fitting skills and I had to use a single ACR rig to plug in a massive 1600mm RT plate but it felt worth it.
My only real regret is to be less than 1 (one!!) powergrid shot of being able to fit 4x dual 180mm T2 and 2x rocket launcher T2... I wasn't even trying to fit cruiser sized missile launchers... It was the smallest I could chose while still appearing to be effecient.
I would hope players with maxed out fitting skills would be capable of fitting an easily available cruiser like the Stabber with the smallest guns and frigate launchers without the need of implants (already used 1 rig slot for PG) It is already out of the question to use gunnery rigs and I wasn't even thinking about neutralizers or cap booster. Implants should be for people without maxed skills or people who want bigger weapons hehe
Here is the setup I tried:
Dc2, 1600mm RT plate, double EANM Named MWD, double webifier, warp scrambler 4 x T2 dual 180mm + 2 x T2 Rocket launchers 1 x ACR rig + 2 x Trimark |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2012.11.30 14:52:00 -
[974] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:I tried to fit up an armor Stabber...
I felt very good about having a versatile hull capable of being used in many kinds of fleets and not only shield. I have perfect fitting skills and I had to use a single ACR rig to plug in a massive 1600mm RT plate but it felt worth it.
My only real regret is to be less than 1 (one!!) powergrid shot of being able to fit 4x dual 180mm T2 and 2x rocket launcher T2... I wasn't even trying to fit cruiser sized missile launchers... It was the smallest I could chose while still appearing to be effecient.
I would hope players with maxed out fitting skills would be capable of fitting an easily available cruiser like the Stabber with the smallest guns and frigate launchers without the need of implants (already used 1 rig slot for PG) It is already out of the question to use gunnery rigs and I wasn't even thinking about neutralizers or cap booster. Implants should be for people without maxed skills or people who want bigger weapons hehe
Here is the setup I tried:
Dc2, 1600mm RT plate, double EANM Named MWD, double webifier, warp scrambler 4 x T2 dual 180mm + 2 x T2 Rocket launchers 1 x ACR rig + 2 x Trimark
trying to get a cheap stabber fleet issue eh... its bonus and lack of tank suggest its not a great idea. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
281
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Posted - 2012.11.30 15:15:00 -
[975] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Cyanerd wrote:Are the navy faction equivilants of these ships being left unchanged? Caracal Navy Issue for example. The navy versions aren't being changed in Retribution, but they will be changed. when when!!!!!!! :) My ENI wants to know when it can come out of the hangar again! Please, for my ENI, make it sooner rather than later. What's the schedule? Tech 1 BC/BS, then Empire Faction, or T2, or both? I would think after t2, because from weakest to strongest is T1, Navy, Pirate, T2. If they don't redo T2 then how would they know what to do for navy and pirate? Ideas for Drone Improvement Updated 11/16/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
35
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Posted - 2012.11.30 15:17:00 -
[976] - Quote
You must be doing something wrong. It fits.
[Stabber, Armor Stabber] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
980 / 983.13 pg says updated EFT...am I missing something?
It sucks though....not enough dps at all...and no drones to boot :S |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
108
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Posted - 2012.11.30 23:12:00 -
[977] - Quote
Shopping List
1. Caracal x 8 (2 different setups) 2. Thorax x 4 (2 different setups) [SMUG]-áSORRY for party rocking! v0v
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
258
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Posted - 2012.12.01 02:01:00 -
[978] - Quote
Deerin wrote:You must be doing something wrong. It fits. 980 / 983.13 pg says updated EFT...am I missing something? It sucks though....not enough dps at all...and no drones to boot :S
It might have been a small cap booster not fitting - in which case I guess it's okay... Can't login to test again atm...
And no it sits only at 300dps (compared to 400+) with a short engagement envelope - however it's a fast armor ship with a strong buffer. I just wanted to see the Stabber potential as an armor ship and it's good at certain things. Just don't bring it up against other cruisers trying to brawl them... Trying to bring a Stabber down with frigs and destroyers will fast bring people back to reality.
IMO it should still have 3-4 light drones but hey lets see how it gets treated on TQ... Can take a while for people to find it's true potential :-) |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
250
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Posted - 2012.12.01 02:55:00 -
[979] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:Deerin wrote:You must be doing something wrong. It fits. 980 / 983.13 pg says updated EFT...am I missing something? It sucks though....not enough dps at all...and no drones to boot :S It might have been a small cap booster not fitting - in which case I guess it's okay... Can't login to test again atm... And no it sits only at 300dps (compared to 400+) with a short engagement envelope - however it's a fast armor ship with a strong buffer. I just wanted to see the Stabber potential as an armor ship and it's good at certain things. Just don't bring it up against other cruisers trying to brawl them... Trying to bring a Stabber down with frigs and destroyers will fast bring people back to reality. IMO it should still have 3-4 light drones but hey lets see how it gets treated on TQ... Can take a while for people to find it's true potential :-)
Its basically an oversized destroyer. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
101
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Posted - 2012.12.01 07:13:00 -
[980] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote:Deerin wrote:You must be doing something wrong. It fits. 980 / 983.13 pg says updated EFT...am I missing something? It sucks though....not enough dps at all...and no drones to boot :S It might have been a small cap booster not fitting - in which case I guess it's okay... Can't login to test again atm... And no it sits only at 300dps (compared to 400+) with a short engagement envelope - however it's a fast armor ship with a strong buffer. I just wanted to see the Stabber potential as an armor ship and it's good at certain things. Just don't bring it up against other cruisers trying to brawl them... Trying to bring a Stabber down with frigs and destroyers will fast bring people back to reality. IMO it should still have 3-4 light drones but hey lets see how it gets treated on TQ... Can take a while for people to find it's true potential :-) Its basically an oversized destroyer. That likely goes faster. |
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Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
37
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Posted - 2012.12.01 09:22:00 -
[981] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote:Deerin wrote:You must be doing something wrong. It fits. 980 / 983.13 pg says updated EFT...am I missing something? It sucks though....not enough dps at all...and no drones to boot :S It might have been a small cap booster not fitting - in which case I guess it's okay... Can't login to test again atm... And no it sits only at 300dps (compared to 400+) with a short engagement envelope - however it's a fast armor ship with a strong buffer. I just wanted to see the Stabber potential as an armor ship and it's good at certain things. Just don't bring it up against other cruisers trying to brawl them... Trying to bring a Stabber down with frigs and destroyers will fast bring people back to reality. IMO it should still have 3-4 light drones but hey lets see how it gets treated on TQ... Can take a while for people to find it's true potential :-) Its basically an oversized destroyer. That likely goes faster.
Nope stabber is faster :)
Also try using a micro cap booster. It can also use 200's...but not navy 400's.
I'm kinda sad about stabber. The falloff bonus indicates a kiting use...but the dps is low so it might not work that well. I was trying to find AHAC style ab/sig tanking setups, but dps lacks again...so I'm at a loss about the new stabber. In the end I'll probably end up with a paper tank arty setup with dual damps or dual td's.
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Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
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Posted - 2012.12.01 10:16:00 -
[982] - Quote
... which brings me back to replacing the ROF bonus with an AB bonus -¦ v -¦ ... It's not like its going to deal groundbreaking DPS anyways... Leave that to Rupture. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
251
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Posted - 2012.12.01 13:13:00 -
[983] - Quote
Vayn Baxtor wrote:... which brings me back to replacing the ROF bonus with an AB bonus -¦ v -¦ ... It's not like its going to deal groundbreaking DPS anyways... Leave that to Rupture.
So... Reduce its already terrible dps for a ****** bonus that wont do you any good?
You NEED dps.. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
259
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Posted - 2012.12.01 15:24:00 -
[984] - Quote
It is important to have the Stabber in it's own role and not compete with others on dps.
300 dps (dual 180 + rocket launchers) doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to rip smaller ships apart fast and when used in fleets I wouldn't mind having a ship with 100-150 less dps than the rest when it is fast enough to move around scrambling and webbing targets. Mind you it still have a 1600mm plate in this config so it's not gonna insta-pop like some frigates.
That said I'd be in favor of giving it at least 3 light drones...
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
259
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Posted - 2012.12.01 17:13:00 -
[985] - Quote
Yup - I am 1 Powergrid from being able to fit a SMALL capacitor Booster II instead of a web... |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
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Posted - 2012.12.01 17:48:00 -
[986] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Vayn Baxtor wrote:... which brings me back to replacing the ROF bonus with an AB bonus -¦ v -¦ ... It's not like its going to deal groundbreaking DPS anyways... Leave that to Rupture. So... Reduce its already terrible dps for a ****** bonus that wont do you any good? You NEED dps..
-- Or any other bonus, but that ROF bonus is not helping much either if people say "it's not enough". Nonetheless, my comment was following what Deevin said. AHAC + AB style. And there are uses and good with it; as long as the AB bonus is a decent one. And it is just a random demand. I know how to utilize AB, I agree though that that does not mean everybody else can see good in it...
Seriously though. Stabber has somewhere always been more of a "heavy tackler" -- heavy as in simply having more raw hitpoints than a random tackler frig. It can kill stuff too, but that was always somewhere limited, and everybody knows that the Rupture is a reliable powerhouse and workhorse. Stabber Fleet Issue is clearly an alternative between the worlds for its interesting slot layout + the drones.
I'd be for DPS, but as everybody proved for tons of pages, you can stuff it full as you want, it is always apparently "not enough DPS". If it were so, then nobody would be talking about it.
It's not like CCP is going to give the Stabber specifically a higher ROF bonus just to justify our DPS demands. Everybody has a different taste to "when is it "enough dps"'. I for one do not actually like to have every damn ship have drones, but if the Stabber were to have the decent dronebay/bandwidth, would that actually solve the problem them?
In other words, if the Stabber doesn't get Drones for instance, then there is no real point in having a dead-in-the-water ROF bonus if it is "terrible dps" already. Putting a different bonus in is certainly does more good than that one here.
I'm sure if CCP wanted all ships are supposed to do nice dps, then the Stabber would actually get both drones and 5th Turret as demanded, then we'd see it here, but we don't. So...
Stabber had always been more of a fast "anti-tackle" platform, hence the legit "oversized destroyer" comment. I know AB-bonus is something not everybody likes, but knowing that missiles can be a bane, dual prop'ing with AB is indeed nice, the faster, the less dmg you chew in.
Nonetheless, a "tracking bonus" would most certainly do better good than that ROF bonus. It wouldn't make the Stabber Fleet Issue obsolete either as that ship has drones and 5th turret -- and that ship is going to get some tiericide love too whatever may be. Same goes for Vagabond.
edit; Pinky's comment also says a lot. Let's not forget that the Stabber shouldn't make destroyers obsolete either. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
148
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Posted - 2012.12.01 17:58:00 -
[987] - Quote
Being bad is not a role. If the fit atleast did 300dps, it's closer to 200 actually, that is almost what the Thorax does just in drone damage.
Also you can fit an Exequror with a fit similar to the Stabber above, with a few extra overdrives in the lows. And guess what...yes it does more damage, has more tank and is faster. And it's a ******* T1 logistic ship. |
Adele Godel
The Spawning Pool Team Liquid
10
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:13:00 -
[988] - Quote
Deerin wrote:
Also try using a micro cap booster. It can also use 200's...but not navy 400's.
Spoken like a true eft warrior |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:13:00 -
[989] - Quote
Well, there are ways to compensate, of course. It's all in the hands of CCP. Some feel that things are already a "done deal", unless we all scream loud enough, but I have doubts.
I for one just don't want what the german expression says "Nothing half, nothing whole" - which basically means in this case that it doesn't make sense to have a DPS specific bonus if it is not really even helping much. As said, terrible dps is terrible. Put something else there then.
Heard bitchy people also say, if you want dmg with Stabber, either buy a Rupture or stuff the Stabber full with 425mm, rigs, gyro and yourself with Imps - or gtfo.
I know well myself that having a Falloff bonus requires a decent AC/DPS bonus, but then again, it is already a great aspect. It also means that Ambit/Falloff rigs will give us even more range. |
Meldorn Vaash
State War Academy Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2012.12.02 02:26:00 -
[990] - Quote
Vayn Baxtor wrote:Well, there are ways to compensate, of course. It's all in the hands of CCP. Some feel that things are already a "done deal", unless we all scream loud enough, but I have doubts.
I for one just don't want what the german expression says "Nothing half, nothing whole" - which basically means in this case that it doesn't make sense to have a DPS specific bonus if it is not really even helping much. As said, terrible dps is terrible. Put something else there then.
Heard bitchy people also say, if you want dmg with Stabber, either buy a Rupture or stuff the Stabber full with 425mm, rigs, gyro and yourself with Imps - or gtfo.
I know well myself that having a Falloff bonus requires a decent AC/DPS bonus, but then again, it is already a great aspect. It also means that Ambit/Falloff rigs will give us even more range.
Remember though, with ACs you're fighting in falloff. Your full damage potential is already dropping like a rock the further from the target you get. At the edge of your falloff range you're only doing 1/3 to 1/2 the DPS. Short of giving an insane amount of falloff bonus to compensate for DPS loss, the Stabber will still be iffy as a kiter and marginal as a brawler. A 5th turret may help. Swapping the ROF bonus for a Damage bonus may help. Even though I really really like the fast ROF, the volley damage just isn't there at range.
I still want drones for the Stabber
While IGÇÖm complaining, if they decided to go with 5 turrets I would suggest dropping that last high slot and add a mid slot, let it the Stabber be shield tanked. The Rupture is geared more towards armor anyways. |
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