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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
2179
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:05:00 -
[1111] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:
Then tweak the ships not the missles.
Its the missiles causing the problems. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
727
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:10:00 -
[1112] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Signal11th wrote:
Then tweak the ships not the missles.
Its the missiles causing the problems.
Not really its the bounses from the ships that cause the problems with the missles, see nighthawk, not really any decent bonuses on it so no one really uses it. Yep I can hit to 80km but the damage isnt that great,
Now put my in a Tengu with all the fancy bonuses and I'm hitting 25% harder 20% further and 15% faster. (these numbers are jusxt for emphasis not any accuracy.) Now with a drake I can stick a BS tank on that and sit with my 100 mates and just sit there taking a shed load of damage from 70k out. So now I'll just bring 120 drakes instead of 100.
Its a sledgehammer to crack a nut. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:11:00 -
[1113] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: 5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone.
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John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
20
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:16:00 -
[1114] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:and there's barely enough slots to fit a decent tank on most Caldari BS sized ships as it is.
If they gave us extra Mids/Lows to accommodate the modules then you'd have a point, but they aren't so you haven't.
Well, the changes don't really affect BS...
I meant BC. Apologies.
The men waved their hats, the ladies their umbrellas. One felt they would have liked to touch the steel muscles of the most courageous champions since antiquity. Who will carry off the first prize, entering the pantheon where only supermen may go? |
Kmelx
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:18:00 -
[1115] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Its the missiles causing the problems.
Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on.
On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming.
Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
210
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:19:00 -
[1116] - Quote
From my calculations Hurricane could easily be without 400 PG and 50 CPU, so people only have to worry for now if they have poor fitting skills...
Pinky
And I agree DPS from heavy missiles have never been an issue - As said it's the range combined with solid tank and for the Tengu a ******** 100mn Afterburner easily fitting and permarunning... |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
727
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:19:00 -
[1117] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:and there's barely enough slots to fit a decent tank on most Caldari BS sized ships as it is.
If they gave us extra Mids/Lows to accommodate the modules then you'd have a point, but they aren't so you haven't.
Well, the changes don't really affect BS... I meant BC. Apologies.
You not heard of the Drake then?? It's the Drake's ungodly tank that has caused some of this mess. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2179
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:19:00 -
[1118] - Quote
Webvan wrote:baltec1 wrote: 5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone.
You can go back and look for all of the rage quit posts if you want. It will number around 5-6 with about 10-20 "I want my skillpoints back!".
Now as for the nerfs, in order to balance something the better option is to nerf two things rather than rebalance an entire game around them. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
727
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:22:00 -
[1119] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Webvan wrote:baltec1 wrote: 5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone. You can go back and look for all of the rage quit posts if you want. It will number around 5-6 with about 10-20 "I want my skillpoints back!". Now as for the nerfs, in order to balance something the better option is to nerf two things rather than rebalance an entire game around them.
And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:23:00 -
[1120] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2180
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:29:00 -
[1121] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Its the missiles causing the problems.
Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on. On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming. Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE.
You currently get 800+ DPS out of a ratting tengu and the standard tengufleet fit get over 500 DPS. What on earth are you doing to yours? |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
20
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:32:00 -
[1122] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:now all they have to do is nerf projectiles.
Because it would be unthinkable to have a weapon system that was actually worth using?
The men waved their hats, the ladies their umbrellas. One felt they would have liked to touch the steel muscles of the most courageous champions since antiquity. Who will carry off the first prize, entering the pantheon where only supermen may go? |
Connall Tara
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:34:00 -
[1123] - Quote
yeah... see I don't have problems with this all round. why might you ask? because I HAVE BACON!
http://i.imgur.com/H0cMi.jpg
join with me brothers! revel in the magic of bacon! the wonders of a 30km 600+ dps platform now with the prospect of a tracking computer to improve the hit rate against other targets! get over the whine and embrace the option to fit something else \o/
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr65kfx3aW1qzrafwo1_400.jpg Fly reckless cohost and all round bad pilot o7 |
baltec1
Bat Country
2180
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:34:00 -
[1124] - Quote
Webvan wrote:baltec1 wrote: We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son.
Only if the nano nerf happened well over a decade ago.
Now I do fly missile ships and if you took even the slightest bit of time to look at the base stats of the long range med weapons then you would see that HML are around 25% better ranged and around 20% better at DPS than everything else before ship stats are even applied. But I guess looking at actual stats of these things is harder than trying to talk down to me |
baltec1
Bat Country
2180
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:36:00 -
[1125] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:
And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML.
That would leave HML still overpowering the other med long range weapons. The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
728
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:36:00 -
[1126] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Webvan wrote:baltec1 wrote: We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son. Only if the nano nerf happened well over a decade ago. Now I do fly missile ships and if you took even the slightest bit of time to look at the base stats of the long range med weapons then you would see that HML are around 25% better ranged and around 20% better at DPS than everything else before ship stats are even applied. But I guess looking at actual stats of these things is harder than trying to talk down to me
Not that I agree with his agrument but I do agree that his age shouldn;t really have any bearing on his argument. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
728
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:40:00 -
[1127] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Signal11th wrote:
And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML.
That would leave HML still overpowering the other med long range weapons. The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided.
But really is everthing supposed to be equal? There is always going to be something that is better than something else, it's a never ending circle when you try to make everythign the same.
The problem with the drake is its tank and projected damage and its cheap, which is great for new players. The tengu is the same but you pay a much higher price for it and you like everyother T3 lose SP if you lose it. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:41:00 -
[1128] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:baltec1 wrote:Webvan wrote:baltec1 wrote: We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son. Only if the nano nerf happened well over a decade ago. Now I do fly missile ships and if you took even the slightest bit of time to look at the base stats of the long range med weapons then you would see that HML are around 25% better ranged and around 20% better at DPS than everything else before ship stats are even applied. But I guess looking at actual stats of these things is harder than trying to talk down to me Not that I agree with his agrument but I do agree that his age shouldn;t really have any bearing on his argument. Ode to the days when you had to be 18yo to play mmo's ...well not that anyone took the tos' seriously *shrugs*. But yes, doesn't apply here.
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JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
687
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:43:00 -
[1129] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:baltec1 wrote:Signal11th wrote:
And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML.
That would leave HML still overpowering the other med long range weapons. The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided. But really is everthing supposed to be equal? There is always going to be something that is better than something else, it's a never ending circle when you try to make everythign the same. The problem with the drake is its tank and projected damage and its cheap, which is great for new players. The tengu is the same but you pay a much higher price for it and you like everyother T3 lose SP if you lose it.
Well, I think thats one reason that the training multiplier on the t3 subs is only 1. They are super fast to train even from 4 to 5. I've always felt that CCP made the decision to keep the mult at 1 primarily because of the possible loss of SP when piloting a strategic cruiser. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2180
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:45:00 -
[1130] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Signal11th wrote:
Not that I agree with his agrument but I do agree that his age shouldn;t really have any bearing on his argument.
Ode to the days when you had to be 18yo to play mmo's ...well not that anyone took the tos' seriously *shrugs*. But yes, doesn't apply here.
When we have 7 year olds out witting adult miners and haulers age becomes a bit of a non-issue. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
2181
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:48:00 -
[1131] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:
But really is everthing supposed to be equal? There is always going to be something that is better than something else, it's a never ending circle when you try to make everythign the same.
The problem with the drake is its tank and projected damage and its cheap, which is great for new players. The tengu is the same but you pay a much higher price for it and you like everyother T3 lose SP if you lose it.
There needs to be viable counters to everything. Missiles will still be unique in the same way arty is different from rails which are different from beams. Both the tengu and the drake will likely get further changes when their time for teircide comes. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
21
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:56:00 -
[1132] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided.
To nerf them some more? Great...
The men waved their hats, the ladies their umbrellas. One felt they would have liked to touch the steel muscles of the most courageous champions since antiquity. Who will carry off the first prize, entering the pantheon where only supermen may go? |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:57:00 -
[1133] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:
But really is everthing supposed to be equal? There is always going to be something that is better than something else, it's a never ending circle when you try to make everythign the same.
The problem with the drake is its tank and projected damage and its cheap, which is great for new players. The tengu is the same but you pay a much higher price for it and you like everyother T3 lose SP if you lose it.
And all good points. I mean, expanding on what you said about newbies, what is CCP going to do for explorers now? They have frigs, and they have the T3, nothing else. So for missile based explorers, throw them under the buss to appease the purely pvp side of the game? High price for a damaged exploration ship with no alternative.
I love pvp, but this is the conundrum of it in that it is a constant battle over the nerf bat, nerfing one ship or class after another to no end. I've seen it repeated over some odd 16 years playing mmo's. But yeah, there is never equality, it's not possible, I know it, it's illusive as a development resource trap.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2181
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:59:00 -
[1134] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:baltec1 wrote:The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided. To nerf them some more? Great...
Blance it a great thing untill it happens to a ship you like |
Kmelx
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:02:00 -
[1135] - Quote
[quote=baltec1 Both the tengu and the drake will likely get further changes when their time for teircide comes.[/quote]
Yes and we all know what those changes will be, people have been calling for nerfs to both ships for years because of lame nullsec blob warfare, the proposed missile changes are a massive indirect nerf to both ships and in all likelihood CCP will go even further in the future and screw both ships totally, probably by reducing the tanks of both Drakes and Tengus.
I don't disagree with the HML range nerf, but a 20% dps is reduction is full ret@rd.
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
2
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:07:00 -
[1136] - Quote
NiGhTTraX wrote: TDs will be the new and improved ECM. At least with ECM you're taking the risk of bringing the wrong jammer. If TD effects will apply to everything there's absolutely no reason to not bring one.
Totaly agree. Another thing is that ECM only works effective on a handfull of ships with special bonuses (Blackbird / Falcon / Scorpion / Widow) and that's it. And yes, i know that ECM can be extremly annoying, but at least you know instantly your primary and they go down like sh**.
TD's have a decent performance on every ship that has a Medslot to fit it. Way to overpowered. Better make Defenders useful or give us a "MGD" (Missile-Guidance-Disruption) Modul or something like that (same mecanic like TD, but Missiles only). |
baltec1
Bat Country
2181
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:07:00 -
[1137] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:
I don't disagree with the HML range nerf, but a 20% dps is reduction is full ret@rd.
Not if you look at what the stats are going to be. Even with the 20% dps reduction they will be slightly better at long range damage than everything else. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
729
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:07:00 -
[1138] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:baltec1 wrote:The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided. To nerf them some more? Great... Blance it a great thing untill it happens to a ship you like
Yes and in that is the problem it isn't affecting one ship it's affecting lots. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
567
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:09:00 -
[1139] - Quote
Kmelx wrote: I don't disagree with the HML range nerf, but a 20% dps is reduction is full ret@rd.
Do not miss the sh!t with the TD. Now you can use Defenders, Smartbombs and TD to intercept / disturb missiles. At least do not implement this crap with TD affecting missiles! Or can I use Smartbombs and Defenders against gunnery? Who is that crackbrained dumba$$ who think that this is a good idea? To bring two ships in line with others you ruin one race at once. I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
75
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:10:00 -
[1140] - Quote
Kmelx wrote: Tracking disruptor change is an awful idea, it would become by far the most overpowered module in the game and a must fit module to any and all PVP ships, currently the module is already powerful, but it is balanced by the fact that it does not work against missiles, keep it as it is.
Very true !
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