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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.07.13 20:06:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Karak Terrel on 13/07/2011 20:06:10 This is a joke right?
I live in w-space for a long long time now and we obliterated many small mining fleets. They really have no chance to see you if you do it right. The miners of course know that so they mine in cheap retrievers to minimize the loss.
Like someone already said, the richest sides in low class w-space have like one roid with 17k ark and they have to mine that with crap ships. Thats no competition at all.
Two times in my w-space life I encountered a real mining op in w-space. And with mining op I mean, REAL FRECKING MINING OP. Where all the holes where bubbled, with dictors and ceptors in orbit to intercept every ship that comes true. Constantly probes out to scann for new holes and a backup fleet ready to obliterate every intruder.
Now that group effort is needed to safely mine in w-space and still there are less valuable minerals. Compare that to the bot fleets in 0.0 and tell me which one is closer to what eve is supposed to be. -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.07.13 20:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pure Tabasco The day CCP changes the mining gameplay, the day they kill the macros. I have allways said it needs to be more interactive and more rewarding. If it becomes just as difficult as PVE then we will see finnaly the day where people are gonna jump to low sec and null sec for minerals. The day when the macros die.
IDK, doesn't sound like you've ever been in null. People flocking to null in the circumstance you outlined will first have to get past the watchers at the black gate. When they get there they will be greeted with a sign hung over it. It will read, "STFU or GTFO". Noone is going to rat out botters in null. Everyone is doing it. Alliance members ratting out alliance members would quickly find themselves kicked out. CCP isn't going to listen to one alliance that bots ratting out another alliance that bots. Nor have they. Because since the game has been played not one alliance has been removed from null by CCP for botting.
No, such a change by CCP signals only one thing: They don't like competition of resources for the botting alliances. The question everyone should be asking is why. The answer to that question would probably crystallize in reason many of CCP's decisions that leaves many players scratching their heads.
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.13 20:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Pure Tabasco The day CCP changes the mining gameplay, the day they kill the macros. I have allways said it needs to be more interactive and more rewarding. If it becomes just as difficult as PVE then we will see finnaly the day where people are gonna jump to low sec and null sec for minerals. The day when the macros die.
IDK, doesn't sound like you've ever been in null. People flocking to null in the circumstance you outlined will first have to get past the watchers at the black gate. When they get there they will be greeted with a sign hung over it. It will read, "STFU or GTFO". Noone is going to rat out botters in null. Everyone is doing it. Alliance members ratting out alliance members would quickly find themselves kicked out. CCP isn't going to listen to one alliance that bots ratting out another alliance that bots. Nor have they. Because since the game has been played not one alliance has been removed from null by CCP for botting.
No, such a change by CCP signals only one thing: They don't like competition of resources for the botting alliances. The question everyone should be asking is why. The answer to that question would probably crystallize in reason many of CCP's decisions that leaves many players scratching their heads.
And when the alliances with bots find that their bots are useless and that they cannot get as much resources as they want, what you think its gonna happen? They are gonna try to massive recruit miners. More "active" players are going to be on nullsec one way or for another. Some alliances will finally break. Things will change.
The WHY question its actually a good one. Why? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
And when the alliances with bots find that their bots are useless and that they cannot get as much resources as they want, what you think its gonna happen? They are gonna try to massive recruit miners. More "active" players are going to be on nullsec one way or for another. Some alliances will finally break. Things will change.
The WHY question its actually a good one. Why?
No matter what they do to mining, WH space won't magically become a major supplier of minerals and ores to empire. The whole notion of that reeks of a complete lack of understanding of reality.
There is no monocle. |
Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
And when the alliances with bots find that their bots are useless and that they cannot get as much resources as they want, what you think its gonna happen? They are gonna try to massive recruit miners. More "active" players are going to be on nullsec one way or for another. Some alliances will finally break. Things will change.
The WHY question its actually a good one. Why?
No matter what they do to mining, WH space won't magically become a major supplier of minerals and ores to empire. The whole notion of that reeks of a complete lack of understanding of reality.
Wait, I am not talking about the WH issue. I am talking about how the mechanics to mining are so simple that bots can do it. Tweaking WH space to not let bots mine there it's not the solution to anything. The core of mining it's what need a change, not where, but the how. CCP needs to make the bots useless, not just make a little change to don't let them play in WH region. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
And when the alliances with bots find that their bots are useless and that they cannot get as much resources as they want, what you think its gonna happen? They are gonna try to massive recruit miners. More "active" players are going to be on nullsec one way or for another. Some alliances will finally break. Things will change.
The WHY question its actually a good one. Why?
No matter what they do to mining, WH space won't magically become a major supplier of minerals and ores to empire. The whole notion of that reeks of a complete lack of understanding of reality.
Wait, I am not talking about the WH issue. I am talking about how the mechanics to mining are so simple that bots can do it. Tweaking WH space to not let bots mine there it's not the solution to anything. The core of mining it's what need a change, not where, but the how. CCP needs to make the bots useless, not just make a little change to don't let them play in WH region.
Hold the phone Sparky. You're talking about null space regarding the bots, not WH space. You don't bot in wormholes. The mechanics don't allow it.
There is no monocle. |
Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
And when the alliances with bots find that their bots are useless and that they cannot get as much resources as they want, what you think its gonna happen? They are gonna try to massive recruit miners. More "active" players are going to be on nullsec one way or for another. Some alliances will finally break. Things will change.
The WHY question its actually a good one. Why?
No matter what they do to mining, WH space won't magically become a major supplier of minerals and ores to empire. The whole notion of that reeks of a complete lack of understanding of reality.
Wait, I am not talking about the WH issue. I am talking about how the mechanics to mining are so simple that bots can do it. Tweaking WH space to not let bots mine there it's not the solution to anything. The core of mining it's what need a change, not where, but the how. CCP needs to make the bots useless, not just make a little change to don't let them play in WH region.
Hold the phone Sparky. You're talking about null space regarding the bots, not WH space. You don't bot in wormholes. The mechanics don't allow it.
Then what you, me, and everybody it's talking about?? Of what the CSM minutes where talking about? I don't believe WH space minerals actually affect the market, hell, the normal miners don't affect the market hardly as the bots guys! We all know that the swarms of bots are the ones that fuel most of the minerals to alliances, we all know that minerals are freaking cheap because of bots and people make ton of isk with the swarm of bots. What are we talking about?!!
A note: maybe the fever got me delusional but still the truth it's out there. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Discrodia
Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:27:00 -
[38]
See, when Incarnage happened, I was thing the same thing as the OP.
Disappointed by humanity once again...
Quote: The most effective post is the first post, do not waste it.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:27:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/07/2011 00:27:42
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
Then what you, me, and everybody it's talking about?? Of what the CSM minutes where talking about? I don't believe WH space minerals actually affect the market, hell, the normal miners don't affect the market hardly as the bots guys! We all know that the swarms of bots are the ones that fuel most of the minerals to alliances, we all know that minerals are freaking cheap because of bots and people make ton of isk with the swarm of bots. What are we talking about?!!
A note: maybe the fever got me delusional but still the truth it's out there.
We're talking about the null CSM people trying to have ABC ore removed from wormholes so their bot fleets will have monopolies on them.
There is no monocle. |
Astrid Raholan
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:28:00 -
[40]
All the people crying about 0.0 botting here are hilarious.
Guess where people buy their minerals for supercaps. [Jita 4-4]
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/07/2011 00:27:42 We're talking about the null CSM people trying to have ABC ore removed from wormholes so their bot fleets will have monopolies on them.
And they were talking about that the destabilize of the market and people are talking about bots vs bots and I am talking about killing all bots changing the mining mechanics instead of hitting the WH space to fix (partially) the market and then I lost the line of the talk and now you say and now I say and I am partially death in my bed responding in the iPod touch because I can't handle the boredom. Forgive me if I made no sense before. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Digital Messiah
Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:44:00 -
[42]
So everyone agrees?
Fix mining, fix botting, good for all?
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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JitaBUGz TheGreat
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:45:00 -
[43]
If the reason for this is, WH dwellers crash the mineral market. It really is time for the CSM to get a complete boot from the community.
I have lived in 0.0 for almost 3 years now, between my 2 accounts. And the single largest problem I have heard of is Empire/0.0 bots.
Not to name any alliance's or corps. But on many many occasion's. I have been in ts when the botter players are on. They play there main account like anyone else, they do there pvp/cta's. But they multi box, and run there miner alts. And probly the worst thing about it is, the 3 strikes your out method CCP uses. What these botters do is, when they get flagged or there little ban, they put that miner up on the market for sale, then buy a clean miner. And cycle through them like no tomorrow.
Recently living in the NC, Fade/Pureblind. What they did was have All there mining bots in Cloudring, or in empire. So if any one wants to put a hurting on What was the NCs, now you know who's cash cow Capitol botting. Hit Cloudring hard.
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:48:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Digital Messiah So everyone agrees?
Fix mining, fix botting, good for all?
Actually it's fix mining by killing botting. Both things cannot be fixed, and right now botting it's pretty working well. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Harendotes
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Posted - 2011.07.14 02:02:00 -
[45]
Quote: Based on comments by CCP Greyscale in a previous session, the subject of removing "ABC" minerals from wormholes was raised by nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec and that ABC minerals were available in them. They favored entirely removing ABC from WH space -- or limiting them to C5 and C6 holes --
Oh my god .... oh my god ... I think I am going to cry in despair.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.14 02:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Astrid Raholan Guess where people buy their minerals for supercaps. [Jita 4-4]
Guess where the high-end mineral in Jita 4-4 come from? They certainly aren't mined in hisec.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.14 02:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Harendotes
Quote: Based on comments by CCP Greyscale in a previous session, the subject of removing "ABC" minerals from wormholes was raised by nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec and that ABC minerals were available in them. They favored entirely removing ABC from WH space -- or limiting them to C5 and C6 holes --
Oh my god .... oh my god ... I think I am going to cry in despair.
Just wait until you find out that their answer to "tritanium is too hard to obtain in nullsec" is to introduce "super veldspar" which produces more tritanium. [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.07.14 04:16:00 -
[48]
I love the whole prioritize sov over POS system revamp, these dimwits aren't forced to live out of towers for pretty much all day.
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar Hellstar Towing and Recovery
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Posted - 2011.07.14 07:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Astrid Raholan All the people crying about 0.0 botting here are hilarious.
Guess where people buy their minerals for supercaps. [Jita 4-4]
Oh, for the love of...
Stop posting?
Will you please just stop posting?
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:05:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Astrid Raholan Guess where people buy their minerals for supercaps. [Jita 4-4]
Guess where the high-end mineral in Jita 4-4 come from? They certainly aren't mined in hisec.
It's also not there from wormhole space either. Null-bots in protected carebear null-space, rorquals compressing freighter loads of bot-gathered ores... yet they expect everyone else to be stupid enough to think the comparably miniscule amounts of WH ores are somehow affecting mineral prices.
By the way... what's the actual trend in ore and mineral prices been lately? Since the intro of wormholes?
There is no monocle. |
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:20:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Ned Black on 14/07/2011 12:20:53
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/07/2011 00:27:42
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
Then what you, me, and everybody it's talking about?? Of what the CSM minutes where talking about? I don't believe WH space minerals actually affect the market, hell, the normal miners don't affect the market hardly as the bots guys! We all know that the swarms of bots are the ones that fuel most of the minerals to alliances, we all know that minerals are freaking cheap because of bots and people make ton of isk with the swarm of bots. What are we talking about?!!
A note: maybe the fever got me delusional but still the truth it's out there.
We're talking about the null CSM people trying to have ABC ore removed from wormholes so their bot fleets will have monopolies on them.
Also add the fact that they want to move ice to null only as well... so basicly the super rich 0.0 leaders will be even richer while the rest of eve gets a good shafting.
Edit: Oh, and dont forget the super veldspar... probably only available in said 0.0... gees... shafted does not even come close...
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:40:00 -
[52]
This change will simply harm the corporations who live in W-space while doing nothing to curtail the bot-miners in 0.0. It doesn't just seem ill-advised, it seems actively malicious and vindictive on the part of CCP. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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