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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Otebski on 14/07/2011 16:04:01 Edited by: Otebski on 14/07/2011 16:02:59 Isk needed: around 10b
Profit: 10% monthly paid at the end of month
Timeframe: 3-4 months
Collateral: None
Why: I was an incursion runner but sidetracked into low sec piracy which prevents me from milking safe high sec incursions dry. I need to buy an alt that would be able to fly logis or machariel/nightmare so I can make isk while i burn isk:D
What can go wrong: I can get bored of incursions again in which case i will liquidate the ships on alt and sell the character to repay investors. Previous bond experience: none
Limitations: No less than 1b per investor. 1b increments on investments so i dont go nuts keeping track of it.
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:06:00 -
[2]
If requested i can provide screenshot of my wallet at time i was doing incursions earning 100m/h
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Zagam
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:49:00 -
[3]
10b for a first time bond, with no collateral, to buy a character in order to make ISK on something that requires a group of people that does not have anything near guaranteed results.
Uh... no. ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zagam 10b for a first time bond, with no collateral, to buy a character in order to make ISK on something that requires a group of people that does not have anything near guaranteed results.
Uh... no.
I made over 10b running incursions before. When I get back home gonna post it. I was also incursion FC so I do have a group of ppl to fly with. Tho I fully understand that it may seem like a big risk in eyes of investors. From what I gather reading MD from time to time 10% monthly is common mark for no collateral bonds.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 17:10:00 -
[5]
Do you have any ingame references that can vouch for your trustworthiness?
(If so, why don't you borrow from them?)
My third-party service My loan service My Character Purchase Program |
Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.07.14 17:22:00 -
[6]
"but sidetracked into low sec piracy"
Don't pirates kill carebears and scam carebears and grief carebears and wardec carebears and stuff?
You do realize you are asking carebears to lend you 10b?
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:38:00 -
[7]
This is link to one of many pages of my wallet when I successfuly ran incursions: http://i53.tinypic.com/2qb7ucg.jpg
- Pirates dont scam carebears. We kill their ships and pods when possible. They know the risk of entering lowsec just as I know risk of opening market tab in jita.
A for people who can vouch for me.. well I have never been involved in any market orders. Only people who could say something would be ex corpies and current ones? Is it good enough?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Otebski Is it good enough?
[ ] Good Enough [ ] investor money forthcoming [x] OP should return to doing incursions
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:57:00 -
[9]
You know this sort of thing could provide massive amounts of humor. Just imagine putting out a bond request, getting investors and then spending the entire time ganking your investors and then paying off the bond interest with isk stolen from their wrecks!
WTH you know they can afford it right?
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Zagam
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:57:00 -
[10]
By references, we mean several people you have done business with in the past in some way.
Also, I see by your image that you maxed out at 84M/hr in ISK (before tax), but that looked like a rather exceptional hour, too. Based on that, a "good" average for this would be 50-60M ISK while running incursions. if you get 50M per day, EVERY day, you earn about 1.5B in a month... minus taxes, which look to be about 11%. So, that gives you income of 1.335B. After interest, that leaves you 335M monthly for all your normal needs (ammo, repairs, etc.), AND reimbursing your bond eventually. This isn't to mention replacing any ships you happen to lose... or that little thing called "profit".
After crunching those numbers... You're aiming WAY too high, and way too unrealistically. As has already been mentioned, why not seek out loans/bonds from your references first?
MD is very harsh on first-timers, and as a general rule, your reputation is huge, along with lots and lots of verifiable numbers. Right now, I just don't see those numbers, and everything smells fishy. (I prefer my fish fresh, and grilled with some light olive oil and seasonings) ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 20:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul You know this sort of thing could provide massive amounts of humor. Just imagine putting out a bond request, getting investors and then spending the entire time ganking your investors and then paying off the bond interest with isk stolen from their wrecks!
WTH you know they can afford it right?
You start to understand eve. I do it with ammo they produce and ships they produce. Unless you produce or trade only haulers you potentialy increase the risk of being blown up. Beauty of sandbox;p
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 20:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zagam By references, we mean several people you have done business with in the past in some way.
Also, I see by your image that you maxed out at 84M/hr in ISK (before tax), but that looked like a rather exceptional hour, too. Based on that, a "good" average for this would be 50-60M ISK while running incursions. if you get 50M per day, EVERY day, you earn about 1.5B in a month... minus taxes, which look to be about 11%. So, that gives you income of 1.335B. After interest, that leaves you 335M monthly for all your normal needs (ammo, repairs, etc.), AND reimbursing your bond eventually. This isn't to mention replacing any ships you happen to lose... or that little thing called "profit".
After crunching those numbers... You're aiming WAY too high, and way too unrealistically. As has already been mentioned, why not seek out loans/bonds from your references first?
MD is very harsh on first-timers, and as a general rule, your reputation is huge, along with lots and lots of verifiable numbers. Right now, I just don't see those numbers, and everything smells fishy. (I prefer my fish fresh, and grilled with some light olive oil and seasonings)
84m/h must have been a rather slow day. My avarage was way higher. I just pulled a random page from wallet that didnt have a lot of noise. Also you need to factor in profits from selling LP ( check my contract history. I sold a couple Concord LP BPs to Cottus).
But even with your numbers its still can work. I buy an alt. a ship. Even if I make measly 1.5b a month I can pay 10%. At the end of loan period I sell alt and get investment back in to repay investors and enough isk to plex the alt account.
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.07.14 22:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Otebski Even if I make measly 1.5b a month I can pay 10%. At the end of loan period I sell alt and get investment back in to repay investors and enough isk to plex the alt account
lol no that's just paying off your interest, nothing coming off the bond amount!
So you would buy an alt... just to pay investor's interest, and resell him at the end for no profit? Right... --------------------
WTS forums directions and common sense
Google searches cost extra, people! I understand it's difficult for you, though, so I may discount it if you prove mentally deficient |
Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.14 23:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Loraine Gess
Originally by: Otebski Even if I make measly 1.5b a month I can pay 10%. At the end of loan period I sell alt and get investment back in to repay investors and enough isk to plex the alt account
lol no that's just paying off your interest, nothing coming off the bond amount!
So you would buy an alt... just to pay investor's interest, and resell him at the end for no profit? Right...
I think you need to que up reading skills. intrest is 1b a month. Even assumin 1h of running incursions per day and assuming unrealistic low 50m per hour I will have enough to plex account.
Now my plan is to to do 2-3 h a day at 70-100m/h. In which case I get around 4-5b a month from that. If i dont get 10b at the end of the bond period i will sell character. If I do i will keep it as profit.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.14 23:50:00 -
[15]
What is your current NAV? ___ iCandy Bonds
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 00:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Candy Oshea What is your current NAV?
Uhm i can just guesstimate. I got around 2,5b in ships that i currently use. Around 1.5-2b in ships scattered around highsec and other places i used to live in. Around 1b in nullsec station I cant dock at. And i guess some 500m in various faction mods here and there
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.15 00:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Otebski
Originally by: Candy Oshea What is your current NAV?
Uhm i can just guesstimate. I got around 2,5b in ships that i currently use. Around 1.5-2b in ships scattered around highsec and other places i used to live in. Around 1b in nullsec station I cant dock at. And i guess some 500m in various faction mods here and there
Nobody is going to lend you more isk that you have ever handled before without security.
Suggest, 1) mass liquidation (don't be lazy) & take stock of what you have. 2) Plenty of other career paths to farm without needing a 10b loan. (Pi + random salvage in a C1 Wh for e.g.) can be done with a 2.5m SP drake pilot. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 00:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Otebski
Originally by: Candy Oshea What is your current NAV?
Uhm i can just guesstimate. I got around 2,5b in ships that i currently use. Around 1.5-2b in ships scattered around highsec and other places i used to live in. Around 1b in nullsec station I cant dock at. And i guess some 500m in various faction mods here and there
Nobody is going to lend you more isk that you have ever handled before without security.
Suggest, 1) mass liquidation (don't be lazy) & take stock of what you have. 2) Plenty of other career paths to farm without needing a 10b loan. (Pi + random salvage in a C1 Wh for e.g.) can be done with a 2.5m SP drake pilot.
To liquidate I would have to raise my sec status. If I did that I wouldnt even have to get a loan as I can fly many incursion cappable ships.
Basicly any other option is slower at this point than raising sec status and doing incursions with my main again. Only other option was getting an alt. But since I already got it up a bit might as well spend another week getting it to level where i can fly high sec. Ratting is just most boring **** ever. Oh well. If I dont get some favourable offers soon I will just cancel it and wave MD goodbye
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.15 00:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Otebski To liquidate I would have to raise my sec status....
Try this:
1) Write the name down of your alt(Create a new one if you have a slot spare/Use existing) somewhere on your Paid account. 2) goto Pirate character, open assets, find the ships in your highsec bases. 3) Right click>Create contract said stuff over the alt. 4) have said alt create some contracts to a freight person/company to get them to a trade hub. 5) Sell the stuff to buy orders. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Otebski Oh well. If I dont get some favourable offers soon I will just cancel it and wave MD goodbye
/me waves [ Casino | Loans ] |
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.15 03:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tigerras on 15/07/2011 03:24:18 As mentioned by others, there are a few reasons this isn't going to get much/any interest.
1. Your plan relies on you using the money to buy a new character. This essentially means you could run this same thing next month with a new face, and sell the character, rinse and repeat. It's something that is hard to trust as you are gaining a new identity.
2. You seem more than capable of doing this *without* the loan, but are (pardon the phrasing) too lazy to grind sec status to do it on your character, hence the need for the alt. THis doesn't bode well for people who are investing. If you want our money to take a shortcut, what promise do we really have that you will not take the shortcut to just not paying us back?
3. Lack of firm math. We have one wallet journal, no audit, and there are some questions of profitability in what is there.
4. No collateral when you clearly have resources you could use as collateral.
Sure I'm missing some points but those are the ones I've got atm. GOod luck with this.
Oh, almost forgot...to quote Johny Depp as Jack Sparrow:
5. "...Pirate." --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 07:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tigerras Edited by: Tigerras on 15/07/2011 03:24:18 As mentioned by others, there are a few reasons this isn't going to get much/any interest.
1. Your plan relies on you using the money to buy a new character. This essentially means you could run this same thing next month with a new face, and sell the character, rinse and repeat. It's something that is hard to trust as you are gaining a new identity.
2. You seem more than capable of doing this *without* the loan, but are (pardon the phrasing) too lazy to grind sec status to do it on your character, hence the need for the alt. THis doesn't bode well for people who are investing. If you want our money to take a shortcut, what promise do we really have that you will not take the shortcut to just not paying us back?
3. Lack of firm math. We have one wallet journal, no audit, and there are some questions of profitability in what is there.
4. No collateral when you clearly have resources you could use as collateral.
Sure I'm missing some points but those are the ones I've got atm. GOod luck with this.
Oh, almost forgot...to quote Johny Depp as Jack Sparrow:
5. "...Pirate."
1. I am not planning to sell this character. So only gaining extra alt to be used as money maker 2. It is possible to do with current character. But this would also mean I am useless for my corp while grinding cash. Having an alt would allow me to grind while on standby and to pewpew when needed. If i raise sec status and end up playing incursions 30 jumps away only option would be clone jumping and pewpewing to a point where I still can jump back into highsec. A severe limitation Every bond is a a shortcut and every bond runs into same risk (as proven over and over again on MD)
3. Firm math inc!
Logi/NM/Mach/CS cappable pilot: no less than 8b. Barebone logi would cost less but its not something ppl train right away so hard to find. The steep requirement is to get in the decent incursions fleets and not drake slowboats.
Cost to fit NM/Mach/CS: 1b Safety net if I lose ship before it works for itself: 1b
Safe assumption of 2h of incursions at 70m/h at 25days a month (factoring goingouts and wifeaggros) 3.5b a month With those safe numbers getting back investment would take 4 months as mentioned in OP If I can go any faster/more often which is entirely possible 3 months. This is based on really safe assumptions. Good incursions fleets( tho not something available right away and every time) go 100+m/h before LP cashing. Very good fleets at 150+m/h. Decent ones at anything between 70 and 100 (7 minutes per NCO 10M minutes for OTA anything in between per NMC)
And even if everything goes wrong and I only get 50m/h (at that rate I could go missions instead) and get to play 1h a day I still will be able to pay intrest and repay investors by selling character. To sum it up. I plan to buy pve farmer. Intreset is secured at 50m/day income with plex factored in. Its damn hard to fail at pve so hard you dont get 50m/day.
4. Collateral is not really possible. Ships I have at my current base of operation are all in use. Ships in highsec could possibly be sold but it would be only enough for 1/4 of investment. Not really a safety net for investors. But if it could make ppl invest I am more than happy to scrap 2.5b togather for sake of collateral
5. Yarr
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 08:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Candy Oshea
Originally by: Otebski To liquidate I would have to raise my sec status....
Try this:
1) Write the name down of your alt(Create a new one if you have a slot spare/Use existing) somewhere on your Paid account. 2) goto Pirate character, open assets, find the ships in your highsec bases. 3) Right click>Create contract said stuff over the alt. 4) have said alt create some contracts to a freight person/company to get them to a trade hub. 5) Sell the stuff to buy orders.
Highsec assets are not even 50% of my belongings. I got ships mostly around Hek and those could be pretty easy to liquidate. But also in FW area and at entrance to some nullsec pipes. For every station in lowsec I would have to pay black frog freight 40m which kinda deafets the purpose. Also almost 90% of my assets are rigged ships. Some would be pretty easy to cash in like canes but finding buyers for eg sniper munins at reasonable price would be hard.
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 13:25:00 -
[24]
So if this doesnt take off this time around could you potential investors tell me what would be the realistic terms at which you would invest cash in simmilar endavour?
1) 5b collateral and 10b loan at 8%? 2) 5b loan no collateral at 10%? 3) 10b loan no collateral at 15%? 4) none of the above. you are a pirate 5) other?
In the end I would rather have an alt to make money with than keep my main in the hellhole known as high sec.
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Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.07.15 13:36:00 -
[25]
You're a pirate m8 nobody is ever going to give you isk
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 15/07/2011 15:13:17
Originally by: Otebski So if this doesnt take off this time around could you potential investors tell me what would be the realistic terms at which you would invest cash in simmilar endavour?
1) 5b collateral and 10b loan at 8%? 2) 5b loan no collateral at 10%? 3) 10b loan no collateral at 15%? 4) none of the above. you are a pirate 5) other?
In the end I would rather have an alt to make money with than keep my main in the hellhole known as high sec.
realistic would be:
1-2b @ 8-10% with a decent business plan
you are neither going to get 5b nor 10b without either offering full collateral or spending a few months socializing on this forum (so you have at least a reputation & time investment to lose).
The "pirate issue" is more rhetorical than serious in nature - it is a nice reason not to give you money but having a low-sec pvp alt would probably be no issue if people were seriously considering to invest.
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Otebski
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:28:00 -
[27]
Really? I figured all those 1-2b bonds are all just rep grinders who then scam when stake gets high enough. I wouldnt trust anyone with cash if they cant get 1b themself. Oh well.
Also 1-2b would be of no use in my bussines Besides. Nobody even showed a flaw in my plan. Other than obvious lack of trust:D
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Otebski Really? I figured all those 1-2b bonds are all just rep grinders who then scam when stake gets high enough. I wouldnt trust anyone with cash if they cant get 1b themself. Oh well.
Also 1-2b would be of no use in my bussines Besides. Nobody even showed a flaw in my plan. Other than obvious lack of trust:D
Saying you wouldn't trust someone who can't get 1bn themselves is just the same as us not trusting you because you're a pirate. It is a shortcut and an excuse as to why we aren't going to give you money.
Some of the small bonds are rep grinders, others are legitimately in need of *liquid* isk that they have trouble getting otherwise. I have at least a billion in assets locked away in a BPO. Sure I could sell it, but that would be inconvenient, and I'd like to keep it. Instead, I get an investor to lend me the capital I can use to invest in my business plan so I can pull more liquid capital out afterwards, and become self sufficient without having to sell my BPOs.
Also, many small business loans are for expansion that will speed up someone's isk generation. Sure they can get a billion or two isk, but that would take time. Just as surely as you could rat to raise your sec status, or create a second account to train from scratch a logi pilot. It's no different.
1-2bn isk bonds are thought to be scammers building a reputation to the big scam, but 5-10 bn can be a quick scam to get 5-10bn. Some people would rather play a short game, get a quick reward, than wait out and potentially get the...was it 400bn T4U ended up getting scammed for? Then again, some of us are in it for the "scam" of growing their businesses and becoming rich in a legitimate way. --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Otebski Besides. Nobody even showed a flaw in my plan. Other than obvious lack of trust:D
The burden of proof is on you, not your potential investors. MD assumes that every new offering is a scam. This is because most of the are. If you really want our isk then you have to proove to us that your offering is legit.
This is not the US legal system. There's no presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Unless you are offering 100% collateral don't expect to raise anymore than perhaps 100-200m on name alone.
If you have collateral I have up to 100b to lend. Click the link in my sig for details. [ Casino | Loans ] |
moskowitz
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.07.16 23:56:00 -
[30]
Edited by: moskowitz on 17/07/2011 00:01:34 sell ur ships in contracts...wth..u don't need status.
even if wat u got can partially collateralize tha loan ...if ur an (cough) honest hard working pirate....that needs money from (cough cough) people you may have podded moving goods and wares.
don't u think u could put SOME collateral into the pot if your REALLY looking for assistance.
you do not need access to HI SEC ...that is a pitiful excuse man.
edit: o i see u did offer up ur ships as collateral...lol
anyhow gl.....don't u pirates have separate banks and ****?
or any sugar daddy pirate's that help the financially challenged ones?
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