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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
12
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount that is needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter, or scord or veldspar didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
313
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
:orca: "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
Cipio Hakoke
Other People's Money STEEL BROTHERHOOD
1
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
You mine the same m^3 per cycle reguardless of ore type... But yes transfering trit and pyerite to other stations does suck... that's why tomorrow my training and building of a freighter will be complete |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
991
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount that is needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trir and pye for that matter, or scord or veldspar didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine. The cubic meters of ore mined per minute is the same for all ores, from Veldspar to Arkonor. Hauling becomes an issue once you refine. If you goal is to mine, refine, then haul to a hub for sale, then yes it becomes a pain to do trit. An Orca helps, a freighter helps more. The same is true if your goal is to buy minerals at a hub and haul to a building site.
Also many people buy 425mm rail guns at a hub, haul them to the build site, then reprocess them to get the minerals. The result is many more cubic meters of minerals than the guns were.
The alternative is to build at the same station where you refine, and mine in the same system, or at a very close system. I have an alt who mines, refines, builds and sells all in the same system.
Another alternative is to place a buy order in your station and let someone else do the hauling. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Citrute
Quiet.Storm Test Friends Please Ignore
112
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mineral_compression
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Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.
I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.
If you want to see how this is done just let me know where you mine and I'll show you. |
Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
He's a whingy whiney miner. He's highsec. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Move to lowsec and buy a Rorqual. It can compress Veld ore down to less space than the refined trit will take up.
Of course you'll have to come up with the couple billion ISK it'll take to buy the Rorq + fittings, and commit to a null lifestyle since the Rorq can't operate in highsec, and invest in a jump-freighter to get your compressed ore to market...
...but no one ever said playing EVE was easy.
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Robert De'Arneth
37
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around
Well this is a small suggestion, but put up some buy orders at the station you use, and people will bring it to you. The other way takes more work, but you can form an indy corp, and pay your miners to bring it to you. Several ways to not have you haul it. Also, who said miners do not mine Veld? |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
261
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
ib4chribba The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures. |
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Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Move to lowsec and buy a Rorqual. It can compress Veld ore down to less space than the refined trit will take up.
Of course you'll have to come up with the couple billion ISK it'll take to buy the Rorq + fittings, and commit to a null lifestyle since the Rorq can't operate in highsec, and invest in a jump-freighter to get your compressed ore to market...
...but no one ever said playing EVE was easy.
plus he needs a the lowsec tower to stage the rorq, corpies to look after it, the freighter passing through lowsec/null to haul the compressed ad infinitum...
or he could recruit up and pay corpies to do the hauling/mining for him.
or he could just buy it as suggested and pay a hauler. unless he's a-retentive and that would slice .00001% off his margins.
lordy lordy. i'm a manufacturer but doing it is soooo hard. doh.
or he could just do sumthin' else.
just sayin'. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite
Buh? Scord is currently the best highsec ore in the game, and Veld has long been the most profitable ISK/hr ore. They're always my first targets upon entering a belt these days. For a long time, I mined nothing but Veld. If you're turning up your nose at Scord and Veld, you're ignoring two of the best money-making ores in the game. Veld is your money-maker as a miner; it should be the core of any mining enterprise. Whether you build or sell the minerals, Veld and trit are the foundation upon which your career as a (highsec) miner is built.
But that means that you have to plan your logistics chain appropriately, and that means either buying your own freighter or paying someone else to move your trit to market (though this often means wiping out your profit margin on transport costs).
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
12
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be. Also low-sec mining and 0.0 mining of trit and pyer is not desirable, unless you are only mining it for yourself, because the minerals and ores take up too much space according to their value to be hauled to a trade hub and sold |
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote: Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.
I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.
WOW! So your Orca is floating emty in space , waiting for the first pilot to get it ? genius! |
Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sola Mercury wrote:Touval Lysander wrote: Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.
I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.
WOW! So your Orca is floating emty in space , waiting for the first pilot to get it ? genius! Genius |
Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Souisa wrote:On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be. Low-sec mining and 0.0 mining of trit and pyer is not desirable, unless you are mining it for your own consumption on the spot, because the minerals and ores take up too much space according to their value to be worth hauling to high sec Your post is being contradictory.
Firstly, it's easily viable when someone else does the hauling which, given this is a co-operative game is the best way to do it.
Secondly, if trit etc. were even easier to get it would be even cheaper and even less worth hauling around so it's a circular argument.
Thirdly you stated that you manufacture (hence it IS for own use) so lowsec mining using a Rorq to compress is a VERY desirable option. You compress with Rorq, put compressed blocks in freighter, take to HIGHSEC station and decompress. A Fenny can carry a LOT of trit done this way. A LOT!!!
But if you want everything to occur with no effort then no option given is going to be good enough is it? |
Sharon Eskolde
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
In high-sec: my spreadsheet tells me that the margins on Scordite beat the hell out of everything else here, as long as you have the capacity to shift the trit. Even minus that, there's very good profit/trip from just shifting the Pyerite.
All the high-sec ores seem to be doing fairly well at the moment, depending on area. In some places Veld is actually down compared to the others. Presumably that's related to the high price of Pyerite and supported by Mexallon's apparent stability.
In low or null I'd hate to consider the logistical nightmare that is shifting large quantities of high-sec products any distance, though I guess it's fine for local consumption. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Souisa wrote:On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be. Low-sec mining and 0.0 mining of trit and pyer is not desirable, unless you are mining it for your own consumption on the spot, because the minerals and ores take up too much space according to their value to be worth hauling to high sec
Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. You ain't telling me nothing I don't know.
If you're in highsec, Veld and Scord are *great* ores to mine. You have to factor in hauling costs, but even then, they're still better than any other ore...if you do it right. If not, well, mining probably isn't the profession for you anyhow.
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Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?
Opportunity costs. I live about 32 jumps away from Jita, and that's about an hour or more of RL time waiting for that slow-ass freighter to make the trip. That's one of the reasons I quit going to Jita -- too far. I go to a closer trade-hub and take a lower per-unit price in exchange for fewer jumps.
Time has value, in EVE as in real life. I'm still amazed that more EVE players don't get that. Time really is money.
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Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1834
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Souisa wrote:On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be.
Scordite is currently the most valuable hisec ore (and almost the most valuable ore, full stop) in terms of ISK per cubic metre. Thus one full load of Scordite is worth more ISK than one full load of any other ore you will find in hisec. Thus shuttling stuff back and forth is irrelevant.
As for handling the volumes of tritanium and pyerite required: the clever industrialist will simply post buy orders for the respective minerals at a station where they plan to perform the manufacturing. Alternately, post buy orders at a market hub and set up courier contracts to haul the minerals to your place of manufacture.
It's not rocket surgery :)
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
10
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Posted - 2012.09.18 22:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate? Opportunity costs. I live about 32 jumps away from Jita, and that's about an hour or more of RL time waiting for that slow-ass freighter to make the trip. That's one of the reasons I quit going to Jita -- too far. I go to a closer trade-hub and take a lower per-unit price in exchange for fewer jumps. Time has value, in EVE as in real life. I'm still amazed that more EVE players don't get that. Time really is money. Seriously??!! You factor in RL time playing a game? In-game time is relative because you would in effect be doing something else thus the amount of RL time used is static.
Your problem is trying to convert RL time into ISK. You would be better off using your RL time making RM surely?
Then you can convert the RM into PLEX >> ISK and make even more if we're going ot be THAT a-retentive!
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Natasha Taggart
40
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Posted - 2012.09.18 23:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dont lie to OP...
its worthless as you suspected... so leave it all for me!
its all about trade offs, and no one thing has a major advantage over another thing, its not important if its ships, ore, minerals, modules... there is trade and balance in this game thats so carefully tended by CCP that in spite of the huge painintheass it is, its sort of charming cause it sticks it on the player to define what they want/need.....
I am a space luv kitty, and trit is exzellent |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
288
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Posted - 2012.09.19 00:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around
It's not a logistical nightmare. I bought all the minerals for a Hyperion, (~168K cu.m), and built the ship 3 jumps away from where I purchased them without actually doing more than zipping over to run the manufacturing task in my Ares once they arrived.
It took 1 Courier contract, a 5 million ISK reward, and about 3-7 hours. Don't remember the exact time as I wasn't actually paying that much attention. Add 3-1/2 hours to manufacture and there you go. Just remember to keep your Collateral higher than the shipping value and you're good. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Ryhss
Android Gang Stealth Syndicate
11
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Posted - 2012.09.19 00:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around Use an Orca or freighter. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
46
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Posted - 2012.09.19 00:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote: Seriously??!! You factor in RL time playing a game? In-game time is relative because you would in effect be doing something else thus the amount of RL time used is static.
Your problem is trying to convert RL time into ISK. You would be better off using your RL time making RM surely?
Time is the only currency in EVE.
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Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.09.19 01:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?
Your time genius. It's a cost.
As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw. |
Touval Lysander
Combat Recon Group
13
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Posted - 2012.09.19 02:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate? Your time genius. It's a cost. As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw.
ok. i been away 4 months but since when does a mack beat a hulk on rocks ? just use 2 hulks if you can fly 2 ships.
And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK.
It's far more effective use of your time if you insist on on factoring time as a cost.
Someone on $45 per hour = 3 x plex - 1.5b per hour. You won't make that mining/hauling or manufacturing - EVER. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2012.09.19 05:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around
So what you are saying is Trit should be worth double what it is now in order for miners to be convinced to mine it. LMAO! Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Zeran Kariashi
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.09.19 08:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yeah that threw me for a loop about them suddenly changing the Skiff and Mackinaw's roles....I'm still not 100%sure whether is better to jet can with my hulk or just use my mackinaw since it's only....like 4-5% less total yield then a hulk after the changes. And the mackinaw's ore hold is almost x5 larger then the hulks so less headaches to work with there.
Can't remember which post had the math but the difference between them is VERY minor now. If you're in a group and have someone picking up ore, then the hulk is definitely better, but if you're by yourself, with only 1 account, the mackinaw is probably the best option...less chance of your cans getting jacked while you're switching ships or having too many assets out in space for when you need to cut and run. |
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