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Ramael Hashur
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Posted - 2011.07.16 04:14:00 -
[1]
My corp is trying to figure out an efficient way to mine ore in a wormhole. I.e., fairly paying the miners while still making the corp a profit. What we initially had planned was that the miners would mine the ore, and the corp would pay them Jita prices for the ore then proceed to refine the raw ore and use that raw ore in ship building, which we would then use in a ship replacement program and sell excess on the market.
The problem is that with the 75% cap on a refining array in a pos, (65% with our best refiner's skills), we would have to pay the miners 65% of Jita price just so that the corp could make a profit on the refined minerals. (For example, 15K arkonor would sell for roughly 75 mil, but the minerals from that amount of arkonor would only profit us roughly 50 mil if we were to sell the refined minerals directly. These are approximate values, but it gives you an idea).
I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy being paid 2/3's of what they could make directly selling the raw ore. They of course have the option to transport their own ore out, but of course there is a major logistics issue with transporting that much raw ore at the same time.
A possible solution is to use a Rorqual to compress all of that raw ore to refine at 100% in an empire station, but a Rorqual is a tad bit out of our means at the moment. Is there any solution to this problem besides deeply cutting into our miner's pockets?
Thank you. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.16 04:30:00 -
[2]
Either take the local refine loss or haul the ore out for refining. No way around it.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.16 11:38:00 -
[3]
Its difficult to say exactly without knowing what type of WH and statics you have but here's my brief experience with WH mining and our solution.
We set up our pos, onlined the refining arrays, went and ripped out some ABC...then gasped in horror as we saw how long refining took and how much we lost.
At that point we decided to use an orca to nip out through our lowsec static and refine in a station. With a bit of care its not that difficult if you have the right fitting and scouting. Our main worry was alerting the locals so when it was time to do some refining runs we would collapse our current static (which we always kept at absolute minimum remaining mass capacity to discourage visitors) And use the new static. A couple of very quick runs with the orca to refine stuff (we could manage four runs and still have a very slim margin on the WH) then collapse it so the locals couldnt come in for a nosey. We'd then dump the minerals whenever we got a random WH to empire space for collection by an out of WH corpie.
Its a little risky, but it works. Depends on your static though.
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Lord Viziam
GunStars
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Posted - 2011.07.16 14:57:00 -
[4]
From my experience, mining in a wormhole is not a very productive use of one's time, given the risks and logistic hassles. The only time it becomes productive is if you build a rorq in there for compression, and even then there are still more profitable activities to do. We have a rorq in our wormhole, but most of the time it just sits there gathering space dust..
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Callduron
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Posted - 2011.07.17 18:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lord Viziam From my experience, mining in a wormhole is not a very productive use of one's time, given the risks and logistic hassles. The only time it becomes productive is if you build a rorq in there for compression, and even then there are still more profitable activities to do. We have a rorq in our wormhole, but most of the time it just sits there gathering space dust..
Do you import minerals to do industry with or do you just not do much industry?
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Awl Mine
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Posted - 2011.07.18 04:51:00 -
[6]
1) Do mining missions with Corporations in all regions of Empire until corporate reputation is 6.68 or better. This reduces the tax for refining in station to 0%. You will have 0-loss/perfect refining.
2) Buy the BPCs, train the skills, and build a Rorqual in your WH. The benefits of compressing the ore before hauling it out are worth the cost if you are serious about mining in a WH.
3) Consider paying your miners by volume to mine. That way you are independant of the type of ore they mine, and you reward players for focussing their mining skills for higher yield. Depending on your corp size, you may find the replacement cost of Covetors outweighs the lower volume of ore. If ganked by a raiding party, consider the loss of 5 hulks vs 5 Covetors.
4) Consider using Courier Services or several Freighters to move the ore from random dump system to market/refining station.
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Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em Stellar Defense Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.20 02:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ramael Hashur I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy being paid 2/3's of what they could make directly selling the raw ore. They of course have the option to transport their own ore out, but of course there is a major logistics issue with transporting that much raw ore at the same time.
Taking 33% is a bit high.. but not by much.
For instance. In order to mine ABC ore anywhere but worm holes you have to rent in 0.0 space. (I'm excluding the random mining missions one can get that produce very little ore)
Renting 0.0 space WILL cost the corp and the individual a lot of isk. We rented from some groups that charged the corp a base of 300m a month and 20m a month for each corp alt. And you could not take any ore out of the one system we were allowed in or they would kill and kick corp. (You had to sell ore to them). Other places charged the corp a straight 1b a month for the use of one system. And yes they wanted us to sell mins to them.
You need to talk to your guys and tell them no matter where they go nothing is for free. (This is what I like about Eve. It teaches people that you have to pay for anything you want to get)
If you get a Rorqual for the corp you are going to have to pay for it... and the guys are going to have to give some of their isk to help provide for it. (We take 25% of all compressed ore)
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.20 17:57:00 -
[8]
Just take the L and get on with life.
Yes, you can take it to hisec, but it will always cost you more in logistics (the real meaning of the word not EvE ships) than to just refine it.
The thing about it is in a WH with a scout that knows what they are doing, there is almost no way you will get popped. It takes a while to set it up, but once its set up its free ISK. You close all holes and set up your combat probes. Nothing can come in to the system without you seeing it that way.
Lets say you are mining on 3 hulks. You cant take the ore out of the hole as you mine it without having another scout for the orca/whatever. So you had a 4 way split (3 hulks and a scout)and now its a 6 way split. Secondly, transporting while mining means you aren't in a closed hole, and you severely diminish the effectiveness of your in hole scout.
With 2 hulks and not perfect skills I can fill an Orca maxed for cargo in 50-60 minutes. An Orca maxed for cargo is gankbait. Taking a gankbait Orca through a WH twice an hour is stupid and will close your hole in 6 hours *max*, usually less.
Lock yourselves in, clear the site, and refine the ore. The pro tip to be had here is to keep the refinery off when you're not using it. You're not really cutting into their at all because they could not solo mining ABC, and in nullsec there are even more logistics involved, and more stoppages of work. ISK per hour isn't how much ore your hulk can suck up in one hour times the theoretical hisec value of the ore. ISK per hour is total ISK made divided by time. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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