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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 16:26:51 Bottom Line, I have a plan I think is amazing and will work but 300m doesn't exactly get me to the success I am seeking, so the following is my corps game plan [2 members strong at the moment lol] and why you should invest in it.
Quote: --------------- Welcome to MM Inc.
Introduction Thank you 1st and foremost for trusting in not only Me, but the other members of this corporation. It is difficult for anyone to be trusted in such an environment as "New Eden", so I appreciate your trust! This message is an introduction to all members, and will outline the basics of our organization and goals.
Goal Our goal is a simple one. Control the market. In essence, if we control the pricing trends of the market, we will affect the selling/buying of items. if we are the one's to hold all or most of the quantity of a said item then we will be setting our own prices for items that other's buy. We WILL become rich pilots in New Eden!
How will we accomplish this goal? New Eden is vast, and the way the Market application at stations work is (to my understanding) the farthest your market can pull/push information is to the end of the region you are in, no futher.
So my plan, each member is designated a Region. within that Region, you make a docking station your "homebase". once everyone is settled in, we all view the market, finding the easiest item to manipulate. (the level of difficulty is based on how much money we as a corp hold)
Once the item is determined, and we all come to an agreement on it, we begin to buy up every last piece of said item until the Region each player is in is void of the item.
We "sit" on the item for a Day[24 hrs.] Max. and at the same time re-introduce the item at a marked up value in which we will are be in agreement with before execution.
Regional Allocation The way we will be fanned out is in a 360 degree area. the more our member corp increases, the wider the bubble. this is done to ensure that when players enter our "Bubble" they HAVE no other choice but to buy by our prices, and if they feel 1 area is too high, and jump to the next, then hopefully they jump within our bubble and still have to pay our prices. this is were rule/guideline #3 comes into play.
As our numbers increase and bubble widens, we will need players to populate the regions that sit within the middle. which may either be by new members or current members with multiple regions to hold.
Guidelines/Rules As within any organization, if no rules/guidelines are present it will soon fall into chaos and fall to shambles.
1. We MUST all be 110% honest amongst each other. 2. We MUST all be 110% loyal amongst each other. 3. To keep buyers in the "dark" do NOT divulge to ANYONE outside of this corp as to the name of the Region you run. If you do break this rule you will alert buyers as to which regions to advoid, and stop the flow of business in our bubble. 4. We do NOT allow New players to fall under our system[*]
Those are the only rules, pretty simple and easy to fulfill.
*I say we leave new players out because I myself am a "New Player" and one of the motivations behind this corp is to not be taken advantage of by older players (such as those in Jita who run that market). So, beside our 360 bubble we will select a region that will be dubbed "New Haven" in which through word of mouth ONLY given to new players (the way we verify this is the item they want to buy plus there age, no new toon will need to buy for example, a mining barge when they clearly can not operate it). the orders of these New Players will be customized and ONLY the quanity they require will be put on the market for them.
If need be, we will issue out "vouchers" in which we ask for a insane price for lets says, 1,000 units of ore and refund all the isk minus the base cost of obtaining the ore.
[Continued next post] Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:26:00 -
[2]
Quote:
I am willing to take minor losts (couple thousand isk) per new player because they don't have the funds to even buy most of the stuff due to the way the market is so twisted.
Any questions, concerns or comments please direct them to me and/or the group at large. If anyone has any ideas to better this corp/plan then do not hold your words.
-R.K. MM Inc.
Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:31:00 -
[3]
now, I am not going to promise anything because in a market such as "New Eden" it's pointless to do such. I am new to the whole IPO thing, so I'll keep it basic and default'ish
Maturity Rate for Investment = 30 Days Per investment of 1,000,000.00 Isk = Each investment will give the investor 1 share of MM Inc. *Im keeping shares to 1000, until I see some serious return on the markets* Each Share will yield investors = 10% until investment reach maturity
I feel that is pretty reasonable, and a safe investment.
and let me be the first to yell the following so those of you who want to yell it, save your bandwidth...
SCAM!!! SCAMM!!!!!! PONZI SCHEME!!!!!
lol I think i covered both common responses. Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:48:00 -
[4]
No investor's interested? Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:01:37 Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:00:10 jesus christ its only been 20 minutes: heres a few questions:
how many actual shares are there? does the corp have any collateral? who is the other person in your corp that you mentioned?
how does the investors knowing about the inner rules used between you and this other guy make it relevant to the investor?because it feels more like a recruitment pitch as opposed to a MD thread in all honesty unless you meant the rule only applied to the two man in your corp in which case why does the investors need to know?
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rownen Kasozi I have a plan I think is amazing and will work but 300m doesn't exactly get me to the success I am seeking
Plenty of players, including myself, have done this starting with less than 300m.
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Rownen Kasozi I have a plan I think is amazing and will work but 300m doesn't exactly get me to the success I am seeking
Plenty of players, including myself, have done this starting with less than 300m.
in his defense though, you had the e-bank circle jerk on your side though, unless you're talking about pre-T4U.
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Rownen Kasozi I have a plan I think is amazing and will work but 300m doesn't exactly get me to the success I am seeking
Plenty of players, including myself, have done this starting with less than 300m.
care to clue me in on how you have done it?
Originally by: egola Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:01:37 Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:00:10 jesus christ its only been 20 minutes: heres a few questions:
how many actual shares are there? does the corp have any collateral? who is the other person in your corp that you mentioned?
how does the investors knowing about the inner rules used between you and this other guy make it relevant to the investor?because it feels more like a recruitment pitch as opposed to a MD thread in all honesty unless you meant the rule only applied to the two man in your corp in which case why does the investors need to know?
Actual shares = 1000 Collateral = No Other player is a friend's toon created to help me run the crop
The information is relevant to investors because as I have been pitching this in game the 9/10 responses is "How do you plan on making money" so, I posted the inner workings as some evidence of a plan. and yes you are correct in your assumption of a recruit pitch, I copied and pasted my recruit pitch because the plan remains the same. Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:16:41 you know i just actually read OP and i just realized, your plan is gonna require a ****-TON of isk, mainly because you can't "control" anything short of npc trade items with just 1b, maaaaaaybe very thinned out regions that have almost no player at which point i'll betcha that you'll be sitting on said items for a loooooooooooooong while.
on another point: generic station trading is pretty much what it is.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: egola in his defense though, you had the e-bank circle jerk on your side though, unless you're talking about pre-T4U.
I'm talking about doing this without any kind of MD involvement.
There are plenty of items that you can manipulate region-wide with less than 300m and one character with a decent number of market orders.
If you can't find items that you can manipulate successfully with 300m, given that they do exist and all you have to do is open the market window and look for them, what confidence can potential investors have in you finding items that you can manipulate successfully with 1.3b?
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:28:00 -
[11]
I think I know that business model from Runescape!
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 17:30:40
Originally by: egola Edited by: egola on 16/07/2011 17:16:41 you know i just actually read OP and i just realized, your plan is gonna require a ****-TON of isk, mainly because you can't "control" anything short of npc trade items with just 1b, maaaaaaybe very thinned out regions that have almost no player at which point i'll betcha that you'll be sitting on said items for a loooooooooooooong while.
on another point: generic station trading is pretty much what it is.
Well, (naturally and because I did a test run) it is actually possible to manipulate markets in regions that hold high to moderate traffic.
I tested this out with a run of 100mill in "Carbonized Lead S" ammunition, with expected payout of 207+mill after price market up.
I am asking for investors because I would like to see profits of higher amounts, and see these profits move in quicker. if I had the financial backing of investors I could move up to bigger items, and see quicker returns.
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein I think I know that business model from Runescape!
Care to elaborate? Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:33:00 -
[13]
"Once the item is determined, and we all come to an agreement on it, we begin to buy up every last piece of said item until the Region each player is in is void of the item."
Happily anticipating the failscade....
Why? Because no matter how much of anything you see on the market I can practically guarantee you that there is 10x the amount of that item scattered in amongst various player/corp hangars.
Go ahead. Drive up the prices. Make my day.
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 17:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 17:46:58 Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 17:46:03
Originally by: Zeta Zhul Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 17:37:32
Quote: "Once the item is determined, and we all come to an agreement on it, we begin to buy up every last piece of said item until the Region each player is in is void of the item."
Happily anticipating the failscade....
Why? Because no matter how much of anything you see on the market I can practically guarantee you that there is 10x the amount of that item scattered in amongst various player/corp hangars.
Go ahead. Drive up the prices. Make my day.
Well Zeta, There are always nay-sayers, and you are just playing your part so this isn't a flame reply.
but those various player/corp hangars you speak unless they are manufacturing the items (and some which takes hours-to-days to complete) im sure some will purchase off market items to hurry up acquisition of needed material.
not only that, but you have corps/hangars that are not as financially stable as they would like to be in order to have the ability to stock-pile equipment, gear, minerals, ammunition's, etc. etc.
so I do not have any fear of this plan not working. the only wrench in the gears as of this moment is start up capital which I am attempting to raise through this IPO offer/Business model information release.
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
edit:
Quote: "I tested this out with a run of 100mill in "Carbonized Lead S" ammunition, with expected payout of 207+mill after price market up."
You're kidding right? Is that 207+mil of profit? Or gross income? Either way I'd have to say that you're aiming far too low. In dealing Carbonized Lead S I made well over 12x buy cost in profits so you should be doing far better than that if you're going to try manipulating markets.
Pardon me for the sudden change in tone, but as I feel your attempt to be condescending towards me, i offer this response.
You are not using reading comprehension, or your just attempting to troll-flame. either way, if I said I invested 100mil in a test run, with a expected payout of 207+ mill. then clearly this is not all profit. doing simple math will reveal that my expected profit will be to the tune of 107+million (minus market fee's).
Aiming too low? Shall I have invested all 300mill in implants and hope that people buy those? 1st and foremost, ANY investment is a gamble, this I understand, but it makes NO sense to take senseless gambles. with that being said, Carbonized Lead S (a ammunition which has a steady sell history) is a easy/safe market tester.
If you made 12x more, I am calling you a liar, but i have yet to purchase Carbonized Lead S ammunition for more than 15.00 isk per unit. I have watch and observed 100 units of Carbonized Lead S ammunition priced at 600+isk per unit sit on the market as if it was laced with Sars. so I am doubting your words to be true, and if you are telling the truth please present ME with photo/financial record evidence Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 18:10:00 -
[15]
I bumped into the reply button Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:06:00 -
[16]
Short term manipulation is fun and relatively easy
Long term manipulation runs into free market forces like inter regional traders.
So you'll probably put in a lot of work and isk for little or no benefit, except to some other traders who make bank off of what you are doing.
It takes a lot more than one corp and a few billion isk to manipulate markets long term, especially all items in a region. I don't believe it is feasible. --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 20:26:46 Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 20:23:10 Carbonized Lead S: bought @ 0.10 isk/pu, sell @ 12 isk/pu.
Profit: 1.2bil
Sometimes the idea isn't to sell at the highest price, but to buy at the lowest. Some free advice.
And am I being condescending? Yeah sure you bet. T1 ammo is the easiest thing in the universe to profit from. It appears in the loot haul of just about every mission runner imaginable regardless of agent level. Seriously. Doubling your money from T1 ammo? You are definitely not aiming high enough.
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 21:22:46
Originally by: Zeta Zhul Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 20:37:05 Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 20:26:46 Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 20:23:10 Carbonized Lead S: bought @ 0.10 isk/pu, sell @ 12 isk/pu.
I'll be the 1st to call bull, you purchased Carbonized Lead S for 10 cent per unit??? F*** outta here.
I wont even entertain the rest of your reply because you opened up with utter bullocks.
Originally by: Tigerras Short term manipulation is fun and relatively easy
Long term manipulation runs into free market forces like inter regional traders.
So you'll probably put in a lot of work and isk for little or no benefit, except to some other traders who make bank off of what you are doing.
It takes a lot more than one corp and a few billion isk to manipulate markets long term, especially all items in a region. I don't believe it is feasible.
I think it is feasible, just have to work hard at holding the market. if doing it short term is possible and profitable than long term is also possible and profitable (IMHO) Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Rhivre on 16/07/2011 21:27:45 You dont think you can get stuff that cheap? Sure, you might not get the order filled fast, but you can definitely pick items up for 0.01 if you have the patience :)
I guess you havent heard of the 100m rifters either :)
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Rownen Kasozi
Minmatar MM Incorporate
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 21:31:04
Originally by: Rhivre Edited by: Rhivre on 16/07/2011 21:27:45 You dont think you can get stuff that cheap? Sure, you might not get the order filled fast, but you can definitely pick items up for 0.01 if you have the patience :)
I guess you havent heard of the 100m rifters either :)
0.01 cent Carbonized Lead S ammunition per unit?
You MUST be his alt toon Success
MM Inc. "We Make It, It does NOT make Us!"
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Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:32:00 -
[21]
Ok, lets do this the simple way, open up market screen pick an ammo item, and scroll down the buy order list.
Tell me the lowest price you see for the ammo
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:41:00 -
[22]
The OP shows a hilarious lack of knowledge about the way the market works, and less about how it really works. --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.16 23:30:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 23:33:14
Originally by: Rownen Kasozi Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 21:31:04
Originally by: Rhivre Edited by: Rhivre on 16/07/2011 21:27:45 You dont think you can get stuff that cheap? Sure, you might not get the order filled fast, but you can definitely pick items up for 0.01 if you have the patience :)
I guess you havent heard of the 100m rifters either :)
0.01 cent Carbonized Lead S ammunition per unit?
You MUST be his alt toon
If you think that's funny; I've bought mods for 102 isk/pu and then sold them for 5mil/pu.
And amusingly enough there is actually a buy order in Lonetrek; Carbonized Lead S, buy@ 0.01 isk/pu, 7,640 qty remaining.
To explain what I did was spend 4 solid months analyzing the markets, items, regions, sales patterns, buy patterns, etc. I spent about 1bil doing it putting up orders and then canceling them as needed when a particular analysis was done. I expected to spend 1bil doing it, and I spent 1bil doing it. What I didn't expect was that I made about 3bil in this process. So that was a bit of a bonus.
After that my trading took off and I averaged about 1bil profit per day. Not as much as I had hoped, but much more than I probably deserved. Frankly even now with about 16bil in sell orders and another 10bil in crap to sell I'm still averaging about 250mil-500mil a day profit. And that is literally without doing anything at all other then putting stuff up for sale all in the same station because really; I can't be bothered atm.
So yes this stuff is true and yes you are definitely aiming too low.
As an aside my 1,000th **WORST** trade, by item, was: buy@ 850/pu, sell@ 55,000/pu.
edit: secondly except for my alts "Zax Zyx" and "Sans Pants" all of my alts have "Zeta" for a first name. This of course doesn't mean that every "Zeta" is an alt of mine, but all of my other alts start with "Zeta". Which doesn't mean much because I only have 1 account active atm.
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.18 19:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 16/07/2011 23:33:14
Originally by: Rownen Kasozi Edited by: Rownen Kasozi on 16/07/2011 21:31:04
Originally by: Rhivre Edited by: Rhivre on 16/07/2011 21:27:45 You dont think you can get stuff that cheap? Sure, you might not get the order filled fast, but you can definitely pick items up for 0.01 if you have the patience :)
I guess you havent heard of the 100m rifters either :)
0.01 cent Carbonized Lead S ammunition per unit?
You MUST be his alt toon
If you think that's funny; I've bought mods for 102 isk/pu and then sold them for 5mil/pu.
And amusingly enough there is actually a buy order in Lonetrek; Carbonized Lead S, buy@ 0.01 isk/pu, 7,640 qty remaining.
To explain what I did was spend 4 solid months analyzing the markets, items, regions, sales patterns, buy patterns, etc. I spent about 1bil doing it putting up orders and then canceling them as needed when a particular analysis was done. I expected to spend 1bil doing it, and I spent 1bil doing it. What I didn't expect was that I made about 3bil in this process. So that was a bit of a bonus.
After that my trading took off and I averaged about 1bil profit per day. Not as much as I had hoped, but much more than I probably deserved. Frankly even now with about 16bil in sell orders and another 10bil in crap to sell I'm still averaging about 250mil-500mil a day profit. And that is literally without doing anything at all other then putting stuff up for sale all in the same station because really; I can't be bothered atm.
So yes this stuff is true and yes you are definitely aiming too low.
As an aside my 1,000th **WORST** trade, by item, was: buy@ 850/pu, sell@ 55,000/pu.
edit: secondly except for my alts "Zax Zyx" and "Sans Pants" all of my alts have "Zeta" for a first name. This of course doesn't mean that every "Zeta" is an alt of mine, but all of my other alts start with "Zeta". Which doesn't mean much because I only have 1 account active atm.
I can haz u az mentor? --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Dublin Kion
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Posted - 2011.07.19 02:22:00 -
[25]
I'll buy 1 share
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.19 03:52:00 -
[26]
1. Not looking to mentor.
2. I was actually thinking of putting together a secured bond as a way to amuse myself over the next 6 months. A sort of test. Perhaps a 10bil bond secured with 11bil in isk with a 10% of investment -or- 10% of gross profits (whichever is greater). Create a brand new company and transfer 14 of my alts to it and then run it for 6 months and see what happens.
Why 11bil collateral? I have a somewhat uncertain health so if something happened and I croaked then at least people would get back their original investment + 1 month's minimum payout + whatever additional isk was generated.
Something I'm still kicking around since I totally goofed up last night and bought GTCs instead of plex and added 120 days to this account. meh.
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.19 12:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul 1. Not looking to mentor.
2. I was actually thinking of putting together a secured bond as a way to amuse myself over the next 6 months. A sort of test. Perhaps a 10bil bond secured with 11bil in isk with a 10% of investment -or- 10% of gross profits (whichever is greater). Create a brand new company and transfer 14 of my alts to it and then run it for 6 months and see what happens.
Why 11bil collateral? I have a somewhat uncertain health so if something happened and I croaked then at least people would get back their original investment + 1 month's minimum payout + whatever additional isk was generated.
Something I'm still kicking around since I totally goofed up last night and bought GTCs instead of plex and added 120 days to this account. meh.
Sounds like a fun idea. Any thoughts when you'll put this live? --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.19 14:35:00 -
[28]
No idea. I'll have to put some thought into whether or not I want to put in the time commitment into this game.
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.19 16:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul No idea. I'll have to put some thought into whether or not I want to put in the time commitment into this game.
That I understand.
BTW the mentor thing was because I'm running into problems at around 100m of trading assets being station traded. Everything big I try moves way to slowly, and the slow stuff is heavily 0.01 isked (in a major trade hub, not jita). I'm going to have to do some region-wide trading to make the best profit, but have a lot of market analyzing to do, so I was curious of your methods.
Not that I expect anyone to share their methods. Tis a *trade* secret I suspect. --------------------------------------- Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.19 16:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tigerras
Originally by: Zeta Zhul No idea. I'll have to put some thought into whether or not I want to put in the time commitment into this game.
That I understand.
BTW the mentor thing was because I'm running into problems at around 100m of trading assets being station traded. Everything big I try moves way to slowly, and the slow stuff is heavily 0.01 isked (in a major trade hub, not jita). I'm going to have to do some region-wide trading to make the best profit, but have a lot of market analyzing to do, so I was curious of your methods.
Not that I expect anyone to share their methods. Tis a *trade* secret I suspect.
*shrug* evemail sent.
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