Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
One thing that annoys me to no end is how corpmates and allies name the corp bookmarks and how they are (not) organized. I'd be interested to learn what methods other wormhole people use to organize their intel.
I'm not talking about folks who only scan in their home system and maybe their static. I'd be interested to know how the people do it who scan a dozen systems every day or even a hundred. What BM naming convention do you use? How many folders? Any external tools like a google spreadsheet or chain mapper?
The best I've come up with so far is using the wormnav chain mapper for an overview of how systems are connected, use a google spreadsheet to keep track of what signatures are in the systems and what they are, then name BMs in game so that every WH bookmark shows what system locus it leads to. But everyone else refuses to adhere to this because they think it's too complicated, so we always end up with a mess of unorganized bookmarks. . |
Gumby Ambraelle
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Illusion of Solitude
39
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
The most important thing for a corp is that there is an agreed upon standard for naming and storing BM's
You do not want to have a crisis and corpmates unable to find the person in crisis in time because the book marks are all fouled up. Having a consistent naming convention and storage location also allows everyone in the corp to be able to determine the status of the w-space in a very quick time. It allows them to see what has been scanned and what has not, and where they need to scan. It prevents duplication of effort.
We use the ingame bulletin board and consuistent BM's and within 2 min of login I can tell what the status of our space is, what our routes are, who our neighbors are, and how active things have been in te recent past. This saves us a great deal of time and effort for all in the corp.
we scan the entire chain each time a new wh appears.
We store the BM is a folder that is only for route information... how to get to the various points in a chain. We also use wormnav to update chain information. We use the bulletin board to annotate the Coprs residing in the various locations along the map and our consisten naming convention allows us to look at names and figure out how far from home each system is. We have a seperate folder for out of date BM's as we see some of the same locations from time to time and it gives us a reference point for previous visits.
There are many ways to accomplish these task, the biggest thing is everyone has to agree to a standard and then use that standard |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:But everyone else refuses to adhere to this because they think it's too complicated, so we always end up with a mess of unorganized bookmarks. Change corp/alliance. http://rnat-postmortem.blogspot.se |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Using a folder just for wormhole BM's is a good idea. Keep it coming
You're right that the most important part is that there is a standard and everyone sticks to it. Unfortunately this never really worked with us because many people are just too lazy and don't care... people who are otherwise not dumb or bad at EVE. Am I just unlucky in my friends? I'd assume that most corps have this problem. Even people who are somewhat trying to use the standard often slip up and make naming mistakes because they don't care enough to properly memorize how it should be done.
And just sticking to a standard is not actually so great if the standard sucks. I was 'forced' under a corp standard that is imho not very good and I'm complying with it, but I get more annoyed with it every day. I think I may just establish my own personal standard for my private bookmarks, but this is hardly a perfect solution...
Ashimat wrote:Quote:But everyone else refuses to adhere to this because they think it's too complicated, so we always end up with a mess of unorganized bookmarks. Change corp/alliance. So you think my proposed method is good? Maybe I can convince people if I come up with something even better/easier, that's why I started this thread.
Changing corp is hard if you've known all the people for years, some of them even in RL ;-) . |
Gumby Ambraelle
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Illusion of Solitude
39
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Using a folder just for wormhole BM's is a good idea. Keep it coming You're right that the most important part is that there is a standard and everyone sticks to it. Unfortunately this never really worked with us because many people are just too lazy and don't care... people who are otherwise not dumb or bad at EVE. Am I just unlucky in my friends? I'd assume that most corps have this problem. Even people who are somewhat trying to use the standard often slip up and make naming mistakes because they don't care enough to properly memorize how it should be done. And just sticking to a standard is not actually so great if the standard sucks. I was 'forced' under a corp standard that is imho not very good and I'm complying with it, but I get more annoyed with it every day. I think I may just establish my own personal standard for my private bookmarks, but this is hardly a perfect solution... Ashimat wrote:Quote:But everyone else refuses to adhere to this because they think it's too complicated, so we always end up with a mess of unorganized bookmarks. Change corp/alliance. So you think my proposed method is good? Maybe I can convince people if I come up with something even better/easier, that's why I started this thread. Changing corp is hard if you've known all the people for years, some of them even in RL ;-)
Suggest a change in the corporate structure, make it something that is easy to follow. put together a series of instructions and examples to show how this will assist in finding routes quicker.
We also use seperate folders for Anoms and sis.
The BM process should be almost the same for an anom as a wh so that there is less to remember
The important info is the date, location, identifier, time if appropriate
couple of examples
19 | Home -> C2a | ABC
19 | C2a Ladar Site | Forgotten Perimiter | DEF | Activated 2130
19 | Home -> Lowsec | BBC | K162 EOL 2215
this gives the date, the location and the destination C2a is used as a designation for a c2 that is one jump from home C2b would be a c2 that is 2 jumps from home The anom is idetified by three letter designator and type of anom as well as the activation time. The bulletin board would contain the details for example
if you have a c4b and a c5c as well as a c3b and lowsec out of the c5 the bulletin board would give the route info. This can also be tracked in wormnav.
in the BB you could list this as Home -> C2a -> C3b and Home to C4a->C4b-C5c->Lowsec
this allows someone to check the BB abd see the avail routes and the BM will show what was scanned and what sitll needs scanning
Again, there are many ways to do this, it is important that the corp all agree on one and stick with it, other wise as the previous poster said... it may be time to find a new corp |
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
121
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Folder: Home Sites Folder: Home Chain Folder: Old Chain (Deleted every 2 days or so)
Folder:Target Chain
c5y > Hs c5y > c6x c6x > c5y c6x > Home Home > c6x Home > c6s c6s > home c6s > c5a c5a > c6s c5a> lsa c5a > nsa c5a > nsb
That's it, anything that is in a chain site's wise just goes in the chain folder.
WSpace; Best space. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's it? How do you keep track of what was in the 'c5y' and where it is located relative to the home system? What players live there who may provide pvp later, what signatures are there, what was scanned and what wasn't? . |
Irya Boone
Escadron leader
49
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am not in this alliance but you should take a look to talocan United site for th+¿se matter
Whormoles are working as Intended .. so don't Touch my Hole CCP !!! CCP Why don't you name the 0.0 and null system With real name of solar system it would be so awesome !!! and put some NASA logo on the game :)
|
Matt Ellis
Infinity Engine
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Surely having Time and Date in the bookmark string is redundant, seeing as though the bookmark will only display a certain length in the Contextual Menu? Again, slightly pointless seeing as you have to load up people and places to see the extra information, and that has an exact time stamp.
For me, Daily Folders work just fine, with a strict policy on how to bookmark. E.g. ABC - WH/[combat sig type] - [Wormhole Destination/Site Name]. That, and a connected group of players, and you dont need to read up yourself as to what is where. Your corpmates will tell you when you log in.
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
333
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
We use a fairly simple setuip.
For folders we have corp folders for
Sigs (in home system) Anoms (in home system) Chains (for other systems)
For naming conventions it is generally:
Non wormhole sigs and anoms: Sig ID 3 letter code Sig name
Ex: FRP Frontier barracks
For Ladar's and gravs a "*" is put at the end to signify it has been "activated" and the sleeper spawn cleared
Ex: AAG Minor Frontier Reservior*
For Wormhole signatures it is a bit similar but some differences.
Wormholes when possible we try to give more information in the bookmark when we can.
IE
RAP WH U210 inactive (static, inactive if you know it hasn't been warped to yet) FRP WH U210 2145 (activated at 2145 eve time) CRP WH k162 UK (dang UK, Dead UK, 0.0, etc) to indicate the nature of the k162
For the other side of a WH, the original sig is put in parenthesis so they can be quickly matched to each other. Since you need to bookmark that side before you scan down that system, or in some cases you dont bother (such as a WH exit to k-space) you won't know it's actual sig ID. If it is later scanned its sig ID goes at the end.
(RAP) WH k162 Systemname
For more detailed info, we use Wormhole space. In it we can put notes about a system (inhabitants etc) which is usually just an evewho link.
|
|
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
121
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:That's it? How do you keep track of what was in the 'c5y' and where it is located relative to the home system? What players live there who may provide pvp later, what signatures are there, what was scanned and what wasn't?
We use a chain mapper tool.
Try siggy Contact: Messoroz
That will track that stuff
WSpace; Best space. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
I tried to register for Siggy, but I get stuck on the "select character" step, because no character is displayed to select. Maybe the registration only works in the IGB, will try again when I'm home...
Matt Ellis wrote:That, and a connected group of players, and you dont need to read up yourself as to what is where. Your corpmates will tell you when you log in. You expect people to brief you on all 20 systems that were scanned that day when you come online? And to do it again every time someone else logs on? I got the feeling your corp is rather one of those who only scan their home. . |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
333
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I tried to register for Siggy, but I get stuck on the "select character" step, because no character is displayed to select. Maybe the registration only works in the IGB, will try again when I'm home... Matt Ellis wrote:That, and a connected group of players, and you dont need to read up yourself as to what is where. Your corpmates will tell you when you log in. You expect people to brief you on all 20 systems that were scanned that day when you come online? And to do it again every time someone else logs on? I got the feeling your corp is rather one of those who only scan their home.
Also try wormhole space. It's free. It may not have all the features of Siggy (never tried it) but its pretty decent. |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yes a chain mapper tool is what you need. Siggy or something similar. Scanning chains without it is like holding a match in a dark hallway. With it, it's like turning on the lights. Maybe not the best metaphor, but thats how I felt when I first used a chain mapper tool. |
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
121
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I tried to register for Siggy, but I get stuck on the "select character" step, because no character is displayed to select. Maybe the registration only works in the IGB, will try again when I'm home... Matt Ellis wrote:That, and a connected group of players, and you dont need to read up yourself as to what is where. Your corpmates will tell you when you log in. You expect people to brief you on all 20 systems that were scanned that day when you come online? And to do it again every time someone else logs on? I got the feeling your corp is rather one of those who only scan their home.
You need to pay for it.
WSpace; Best space. |
Matt Ellis
Infinity Engine
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I tried to register for Siggy, but I get stuck on the "select character" step, because no character is displayed to select. Maybe the registration only works in the IGB, will try again when I'm home... Matt Ellis wrote:That, and a connected group of players, and you dont need to read up yourself as to what is where. Your corpmates will tell you when you log in. You expect people to brief you on all 20 systems that were scanned that day when you come online? And to do it again every time someone else logs on? I got the feeling your corp is rather one of those who only scan their home.
I don't expect it, we just do it. People will log on, and important information will be shared. We also use the Corp chat MOTD to show this aswell.
And no, we don't JUST scan our home system. what would be the point in that? Might as well live in K-Space!
I was merely pointing out that huge spreadsheets arent exactly necessary in my situation. Alot of wormholes arent really worth noting, imo... |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
We have 3 corp bookmark folders.
Bookmark format is: Probe ID - Classification - Name
For Sites, G = Grav, M = Mag, R = Radar, L = Ladar.
For Wormholes, H = highsec, L = lowsec, N = nullsec, W = wspace
Sites:
- FPR-151 - G - Exceptional Core Deposit
- AFG-910 - M - Forgotten Frontier Recursive Depot
- ROA-559 - R - Unsecured Frontier Database
- PDA-315 - L - Barren Perimeter Reservoir
Wormholes:
- GQK-420 - H - Paara
- TED-882 - L - Hier
- BLP-614 - N - EC-P8R
- AFG-910 - W - J100195
Stations:
- Elysium Tower
- Elysium Industry
- Elysium Scout Safe
We update all systems once a day for the new probe IDs after DT, excluding all the half and hour checks for new sites or wormholes. Putting the probe ID in the bookmark has made quick work of knowing what's new and what is old, especially for people logging in and out. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
177
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ok no real revelations so far, people do it similar to us, though most methods are a little too crude for my taste ;)
Now I want this Siggy thing, it seems to be perfect for my needs. Hopefully they don't charge an arm and a leg, because I guess at least initially I'll have to pay for it all by myself... . |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
333
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Ok no real revelations so far, people do it similar to us, though most methods are a little too crude for my taste ;) Now I want this Siggy thing, it seems to be perfect for my needs. Hopefully they don't charge an arm and a leg, because I guess at least initially I'll have to pay for it all by myself...
I think its mostly an arm or a leg. |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Ok no real revelations so far, people do it similar to us, though most methods are a little too crude for my taste ;) Now I want this Siggy thing, it seems to be perfect for my needs. Hopefully they don't charge an arm and a leg, because I guess at least initially I'll have to pay for it all by myself...
It is worth it. It's the revelation you are looking for.. Although we use a different program but very similar. |
|
Malception
Cold Moon Destruction Talocan United
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
siggy.borkedlabs.com |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 18:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
My corp used to use Googledocs - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnZUkClQtHnAdE5MdHpKeGZtVjdqbHRfbkJHX1FCOGc&authkey=CNvVtfED
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
GunnersMate07
Wormholers Anonymous Transmission Lost
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 05:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just follow the mantra KISS.
If your bookmarks are overly complicated, youre probably doing it wrong. Info that is relevant needs to be shared in intel/comms channels.
Use a chain mapper to be able to figure out the chain (and a good chain mapper will allow you to just simply color code systems such as active/occupied but inactive/empty/etc).
And for the bookmarks themselves,
Home -> C5s C5s -> Home C5s -> C5a c5a -> c5s c5a -> ns c5a -> c5b c5a -> c3a etc etc
The more complicated you make things, the more room for error when youre dealing with lots of people scanning and making bookmarks and trying to figure out what the hell is going on (plus things like time the bookmark is created, or system j-tag, are already embedded in the bookmark folder). |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 07:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
So it turns out that apparently what I consider reasonable sophistication is seen as too complicated by most people, not only in my corp *g*
My own convention for WH-BM's always was WH Home>C3#1 1238 [EoL] AFH where the #1 is a unique number assigned to every scanned system, 1238 is the time it was scanned/opened, EoL indicates End of Life if applicable, AFH is the identifier. All this information is short enough to be visible in full in the right-click menu. The > (or <) indicates the direction of the wormhole, in this case it leads from Home to C3, so its K162 is on the C3 side.
GunnersMate07 wrote:(plus things like time the bookmark is created, or system j-tag, are already embedded in the bookmark folder). We need to trade BM's between more than one corp, so time is essential. When BM's are copied from a can, they have the timestamp from when they were copied.
Am I understanding this right that someone has to create an account/access for me first before I can register for Siggy? My mail to Messoroz wasn't answered yet... . |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
334
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 11:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:So it turns out that apparently what I consider reasonable sophistication is seen as too complicated by most people, not only in my corp *g* My own convention for WH-BM's always was WH Home>C3#1 1238 [EoL] AFH where the #1 is a unique number assigned to every scanned system, 1238 is the time it was scanned/opened, EoL indicates End of Life if applicable, AFH is the identifier. All this information is short enough to be visible in full in the right-click menu. The > (or <) indicates the direction of the wormhole, in this case it leads from Home to C3, so its K162 is on the C3 side. GunnersMate07 wrote:(plus things like time the bookmark is created, or system j-tag, are already embedded in the bookmark folder). We need to trade BM's between more than one corp, so time is essential. When BM's are copied from a can, they have the timestamp from when they were copied. Am I understanding this right that someone has to create an account/access for me first before I can register for Siggy? My mail to Messoroz wasn't answered yet...
Yea honestly that bookmark hurts my head. Honestly it has data in it that is quite frankly, useless. So you are making them overly complicated but not adding lots of value. I have found, not only in EVE but generally in life, when you ask others to do things, if they don't see the value, it is harder to get them to follow it.
Also, as I mentioned before, we keep all of the details in wormhole space, which is kind of like siggy. It probably isn't as fancy as siggy. But it is also free, quick to register for, and can be downloaded to run on your own webserver if you want.
http://wh-space.wiadvice.com |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
91
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 14:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Binary. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Ok no real revelations so far, people do it similar to us, though most methods are a little too crude for my taste ;) Now I want this Siggy thing, it seems to be perfect for my needs. Hopefully they don't charge an arm and a leg, because I guess at least initially I'll have to pay for it all by myself...
Siggy is great and all, but if you can't get pilots to follow your naming system you're still going to have issues navigating the wormhole chain in game.
Start cracking skulls; if you want to live in wormhole space, you have to get with the freaking program.
~ Svodola Darkfury. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 09:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Wormhole Space is terribly slow today, sometimes it takes half a minute to load. Is this normal? Would be a show-stopper for me... . |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
39
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 10:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Wormhole Space is terribly slow today, sometimes it takes half a minute to load. Is this normal? Would be a show-stopper for me... It's not normal.
Wait, you have an overly complex system for creating bookmarks and you're unaware as to what is or is not normal wormhole behaviour? |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 10:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lol? I hope you realize I was talking about the application ;-) . |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |