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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.24 18:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dray The proposed changes to the Dramiel will not change much I don't think, it will still be able to field the dual prop mwd/mse, maybe fewer people will fly them but a good pilot in a Dramiel will still be a ***** to kill.
Which is perfect. Problem with it now is that it is so damn easy to fly/win with that noobs-with-wallets are *****es to kill .. They are F1 racers not gilded family sedans after all
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Nomad Vherokic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.24 19:02:00 -
[32]
*nerf, by the way.
Drop the tracking bonus for say an extra pizza-topping which increases it's mass per level. I have flown one now and again, and still being able to hit something whilst orbiting at 2000m/s on AB is a bit stupid.
Current price seems about 60mil which is very cheap for the performance, given you don't need to throw ISK at it to fit it effectively. --
Why do people sign their name at the bottom of a post? We know who you are already... |
Ryuce
My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean
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Posted - 2011.07.24 19:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ineka
Fake edit: "small" stuff that can hit harder than any T1 cruiser at over 5Km/s, web at over 28km...
How do you fit your cruisers?! And 28 km webs on a Dram...
I don't think you are making sense.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.07.24 19:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ryuce
Originally by: Ineka
Fake edit: "small" stuff that can hit harder than any T1 cruiser at over 5Km/s, web at over 28km...
How do you fit your cruisers?! And 28 km webs on a Dram...
I don't think you are making sense.
I think he is talking about the Daredevil there, you see people fit fed navy webs on them and it does hit harder than most t1 cruisers.
The webs only reach out to 25km with max bonus on overheat though.
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Ryuce
My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean
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Posted - 2011.07.24 19:44:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ryuce on 24/07/2011 19:45:33
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Ryuce
Originally by: Ineka
Fake edit: "small" stuff that can hit harder than any T1 cruiser at over 5Km/s, web at over 28km...
How do you fit your cruisers?! And 28 km webs on a Dram...
I don't think you are making sense.
I think he is talking about the Daredevil there, you see people fit fed navy webs on them and it does hit harder than most t1 cruisers.
The webs only reach out to 25km with max bonus on overheat though.
Exactly. Furthermore, he didn't mention which ship he was talking about which kinda compromises the argument, plus people normally don't complain about Daredevils.
To be fair, people who PVP generally don't fly "most t1 cruisers". They fly certain more powerful ships or cruisers with specific (often E-WAR) purposes.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.07.24 21:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aamrr ITT: Someone who thinks that 100 million isk is "expensive."
This tbh. Its cheaper than a DD which quickly runs to 200-250m once fit, the hull makes up most of the cost of a dram as you don't need stuff like FN webs.
Well deserved nerf, but I don't pretend dram is uncounterable, especially not if you have loki boosts, just that it is very over powered.
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p0ss0m
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Posted - 2011.07.25 06:23:00 -
[37]
I am dissapointed again that this is even an issue.
It comes down to 'I can't kill a dramiel so it's unfair and you should fix it so i can kill a dramiel please ccp'.
People spend years skilling to be an awesome dramiel pilot, your wanting to negate that training. Why? cause you can't kill a dramiel and you reaally want a dramiel km? **** off and spend the time to train for a daredevil properly. They aren't called the dramiel killers for nothing.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.07.25 06:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: p0ss0m I am dissapointed again that this is even an issue.
It comes down to 'I can't kill a dramiel so it's unfair and you should fix it so i can kill a dramiel please ccp'.
It's actually about opening up frig pvp to something other than Dramiels and Dramiel hard-counters.
Quote: People spend years skilling to be an awesome dramiel pilot, your wanting to negate that training. Why? cause you can't kill a dramiel and you reaally want a dramiel km? **** off and spend the time to train for a daredevil properly. They aren't called the dramiel killers for nothing.
1. If you spend years skilling to be an awesome Dram pilot, you are doing it wrong. 2. umad?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.25 08:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mfume Apocal 1. If you spend years skilling to be an awesome Dram pilot, you are doing it wrong...
I am sure he meant weeks/months .. he can't possibly be that naive/mad after all
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.25 09:56:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/07/2011 09:56:29 I am pretty much maxed out on dram skills, and never skilled for one. You dont need to spend years skilling for one since every combat pilot with a reasonable SP pool has already pretty much all the skills relevant for a dram, possibly they would need to bring a frig skill to V.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E
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Posted - 2011.07.25 16:26:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 25/07/2011 16:28:12
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Dramiel's are "easy" enough to kill, that is not the issue though, problems arises when you have to use fits tailor made (ie. almost useless for other purposes) to do it or use a Dramiel yourself. DD works great against them, but you'll only ever kill noob pilots as it is like attacking a Curse with a Diemost or other cap dependent gunship, so Dram's avoid them like the plague.
If you are any good at frigate pvp, you will know what your ship can engage and what you should avoid. The same is true for the pilot you intend to pick a fight with. Why people think this will suddenly change I dont know.
The 'tailor made fits' you mention are in the vast majority of cases more or less standard range-control fits that are viable against a wide selection of targets.
The real issue is entirely different, and player-made. Lets have a look at my personal list of combat frigates I regularly use for lowsec on this char: Taranis/Jaguar/Comet/Claw/Firetail/Rifter.
My main concerns here are combat effectiveness (aka target selection), engagability (important if you want kills!) and cost-efficiency. I'm free to chose dual-prop, ab-only or mwd-only fittings.
Now the frigate list for nullsec: Dramiel.
My main concern that goes before anything else is being able to move without ending up as a killmail after two jumps. Common sense dictates I have to chose the fastest vessel in my arsenal only to ensure I actually make it to my pvp destination.
I cannot even optimize my fit for frigate dogfighting as that would mean giving away the travel safety. Cost efficiency changes dramatically as ships like the Jaguar/Comet or even the Taranis/Claw have such a low survivability in a decent bubble camp.
This problem does not exist in lowsec, pretty much all my frigate choices (even the ab-only variants) are able to roam freely without any major safety concerns, the important factor is how many targets are willing to engage.
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Blackberry Cobbler
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Posted - 2011.07.25 20:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Alexander Asanti Most of you are morons. "I can't catch the dramiel so its unfair"... Really? The ship does cost 100+ million all fit. An expensive toy. Not to mention that when it turns that mwd on it blows up to the size of a BC. I think you should all get off the dram kick. If its so over powered buy one. If you are willing to risk 100 mil frig on the kb's more power to you. There are many ways to kill the Dram. Put your big boy panties on and stop your crying. I fly both the Malediction and the Dramiel and I will tell you that I fly both differently. The Dramiel does not out class the interceptors in their role. The role of an inty is to intercept... Hense the 13.2 au warp speed. They will beat things to the gate and be able to catch them on the other side.
He mad.
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p0ss0m
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Posted - 2011.07.26 02:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mfume Apocal
2. umad?
Course i'm mad. I'm part EMO so i'm mad at everything and everyone, just don't know why...
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.26 05:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor This problem does not exist in lowsec, pretty much all my frigate choices (even the ab-only variants) are able to roam freely without any major safety concerns, the important factor is how many targets are willing to engage.
But what of those scary B A N E camps? Aw hell I'm joking. I agree with what you say to most extent, although I find Inties are reasonably accessible roaming ships for 0.0.
I don't mind roaming blind in any frig in 0.0. What I take exception to most is the cost of replacing pods when you are flying under such risks, but that's a whole different topic. It's kind of frustrating to feel that as your skillpoints grow, you are forced to have to fly bigger ships. It's an outdated design and needs to change.
If the idea is that high skillpoint players naturally fly bigger ships then the risk of loss should be shifted to the ships, not the capsules contained therein.
~~~
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s0lar pulse
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Posted - 2011.07.26 21:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 25/07/2011 16:28:12
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Dramiel's are "easy" enough to kill, that is not the issue though, problems arises when you have to use fits tailor made (ie. almost useless for other purposes) to do it or use a Dramiel yourself. DD works great against them, but you'll only ever kill noob pilots as it is like attacking a Curse with a Diemost or other cap dependent gunship, so Dram's avoid them like the plague.
If you are any good at frigate pvp, you will know what your ship can engage and what you should avoid. The same is true for the pilot you intend to pick a fight with. Why people think this will suddenly change I dont know.
The 'tailor made fits' you mention are in the vast majority of cases more or less standard range-control fits that are viable against a wide selection of targets.
The real issue is entirely different, and player-made. Lets have a look at my personal list of combat frigates I regularly use for lowsec on this char: Taranis/Jaguar/Comet/Claw/Firetail/Rifter.
My main concerns here are combat effectiveness (aka target selection), engagability (important if you want kills!) and cost-efficiency. I'm free to chose dual-prop, ab-only or mwd-only fittings.
Now the frigate list for nullsec: Dramiel.
My main concern that goes before anything else is being able to move without ending up as a killmail after two jumps. Common sense dictates I have to chose the fastest vessel in my arsenal only to ensure I actually make it to my pvp destination.
I cannot even optimize my fit for frigate dogfighting as that would mean giving away the travel safety. Cost efficiency changes dramatically as ships like the Jaguar/Comet or even the Taranis/Claw have such a low survivability in a decent bubble camp.
This problem does not exist in lowsec, pretty much all my frigate choices (even the ab-only variants) are able to roam freely without any major safety concerns, the important factor is how many targets are willing to engage.
This is pretty much what I use in the current state of pvp.
0.0 Solo PVP - Federation Navy Comet (Railgun), (Blaster) Taranis (Railgun), (Blaster) Ishkur (Railgun), (Blaster) Rifter Tristan (Railgun), (Blaster)
0.0 Fleet PVP - Stiletto (best fleet frigate ingame)
Low security - Anything
I find it intresting, but gallente frigates dominate frigate pvp. You'll notice I don't have the Imperial Navy Slicer, Claw or Crusader on my list. Also, alot of this is price to preformance, which the Dramial, Succubus and Daredevil do not meet. I dont think those ships are worth flying over the Federation Navy Comet or Ishkur. I certainly would'nt bring a Dramiel into fleet combat. Same with all pirate faction frigates.
-proxyyyy
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