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Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
329
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I saw the proposed changes to the cruiser lineup. While the changes are positive as a whole, I don't think the changes really address the issues with Gallente ships; slow to catch things and bad damage projection. At least with respect to rails.
Why not consider giving Gallente drone boats (Vexor, Myrm) a bonus to utility drones? Eg; 10% bonus per level to utility drones effectiveness like webbing drones or neuting drones? So basically, a Vexor can launch webbing drones and cause it slow down enough in order to catch it, scram, and apply damage.
Why not also consider giving a bonus to webbing or scram range to a ship like the Thorax? But don't make it so overpowering that it competes with the Vigilant or certain T2 ships like the Minmatar recons. Say 5% effectiveness per level.
While the numbers can be played around with a bit, I'm surprised that suggestions like these haven't been made to CCP? Or have they, and there is a flaw to the suggestions.
Thoughts? Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
63
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Posted - 2012.09.19 23:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you seen the speed of the Thorax ? Have you seen it's fourth med slot ? This ship will be *very* fast and you will be able to shield tank it to not be slower. And have you heard about lighter web drones ? A flight a 5 Valyries SW600 will slow down yout ennemy by at least 30% ! And as they go to 2500m/s with max skills, they will catch any cruiser, no matter what it does. And if you cannot catch a 30% webbed target, there's nothing to do to help you. |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
329
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Posted - 2012.09.20 00:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
If that were the case with web drones, people would use them on their rax. So why aren't people using them? Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
63
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Posted - 2012.09.20 00:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:If that were the case with web drones, people would use them on their rax. So why aren't people using them? Just ask them. Maybe they don't need them ? |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
385
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Posted - 2012.09.20 00:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Instead of asking your questions here, why not in the actual thread?
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Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
329
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Posted - 2012.09.20 02:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:If that were the case with web drones, people would use them on their rax. So why aren't people using them? Just ask them. Maybe they don't need them ? PS : and why don't *you* try these drones, so that you will have arguments about why and how we should buff them ?
If you have nothing constructive to add to this post, then don't bother. If you find the OP to be too basic than don't respond. No need to be snarky. I'm still interested in hearing other people's thoughts on what I'm suggesting. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
352
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 02:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Have you seen the speed of the Thorax ? Have you seen it's fourth med slot ? This ship will be *very* fast and you will be able to shield tank it to not be slower. And have you heard about lighter web drones ? A flight a 5 Valyries SW600 will slow down yout ennemy by at least 30% ! And as they go to 2500m/s with max skills, they will catch any cruiser, no matter what it does. And if you cannot catch a 30% webbed target, there's nothing to do to help you.
Its actually less than 30% because of the stacking penalty.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
197
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Posted - 2012.09.20 03:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've been using rail thorax since the hybrid buff. It was already good. With tracking bonus and 4th mid and speed boost it's going to be insane. And to think people used to make fun. ;)
As I said in that thread, looks like they are shifting Gallente to be shield or armor tankers, kind of like minmatar. Instead of just intended as armor now (though we shield tank many anyway). The new thorax is going to be great with options either way. Dual prop, or dual web or dual rep + full tackle armor, or neutron shield null blaster ship with a decent tank and gank. And did I mention the tracking bonus? If they follow the Rax and add another midslot to the Brutix, it will be fracking nasty.
The only thing that concerns me is that this suggests that active armor might not be getting tweaked soon... I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
437
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Posted - 2012.09.20 03:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
The reason people don't use webber drones is they came pre-nerfed. Their sig radius is huge, they are too slow, they have low hitpoints, a terrible optimal, and stacking penalties. It is disigenuous to suggest that web drones make up for armour tanked blaster boats being slow as a bucket of pus. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
134
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Posted - 2012.09.20 06:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hopefully CCP now understands that Slow armor ships with the shortest range weapon system is bad.
How I view it Gallente could be like minmatar where you have ships that armor tank and then ships that shield tank.
I do wish CCP stops giving gallente more structure and instead more armor and shield instead.
This is ensure there are an equal number of shield ships and equal number of armor ships.
Here's my field on gallente ships should be:
Drone Boats = Armored Ships
Blaster Boats = Shield Ships
The new webbing drones suck due to stacking penalties. |
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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
254
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Posted - 2012.09.20 09:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
there is lot of changes overall so no one can say what are the new tactics to be used.
Example tracking disruptor affecting missiles can cause some EWAR to be used and forcing fights to happen differently.
it is time for new tactics and no one can say how these new ships fit in plans. |
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
30
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you want drones fly a Vexor |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
289
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rax is going to be brutal, 'nuff said.
There hasn't been any dev posts on the current top tier cruisers changes has there? Maller was mentioned in blog but think that is the extent of it .. if so then save your ire/suggestions for when the F&I spam fest continues. |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
69
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Glad some of you noticed what the proposed Thorax is. I alluded to it in the thread where these changes were annnounce, but I might as well go further. Yes! The new Thorax is indeed a Stabber fleet issues with more tracking. You could shield fit it, but why would you? There's something called signature tanking and because medium turrets cannot track cruisers without being effected by a ship bonus. A dual propulsion stabber fleet issue or the proposed Thorax can abuse the tracking of a shield-hurricane and sustain next to know damage from it's turrets (neuts will still f*uck you though).
I hope they give the Rupture a forth mid slot or else Thorax and possible a Vexor with increased velocity and 3 mids alone will own any other cruiser under warp scrambler/web range.
With that said. If CCP gave the vexor another mid slot, then It will be king under 10k.
Also the caracal will become a demon. The nano drake of t1 cruisers without the silly tank, but still.
Anyway, the Thorax's real strength will be with dual propulsion. Which would make it an above class ship killer. All battlcruisers, hacs and cruisers without a tracking bonus, 2 med neuts or web on thier ship will be it's prey. Example: ferox, prophecy, cyclone, vagabond, cynabal etc.
These changes may mean that the Caracal and Omen will dominate nanoing and the Thorax and Vexor will dominate close range. Leaving the Rupture as the odd man out... Sad day if it comes to past and I'm hoping the Rupture gets a 4th mid slot = (
Edit: also if you believe those light drones will help you against the new omen hull in a shield thorax you are mistaken. Use a shield Harbinger against a shield Brutix and figure out the rest. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
64
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Posted - 2012.09.20 23:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote: If you have nothing constructive to add to this post, then don't bother. If you find the OP to be too basic than don't respond. No need to be snarky. I'm still interested in hearing other people's thoughts on what I'm suggesting.
I didn't meant to be rude, my apologizes.
IMO, indeed web drones came prenerfed but by the time the ennemy kill all the drones, you should have cought him or you would never had cought him anyway.
And armor rigs, and armor tanking by extension, still need a review. |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
362
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Deen Wispa wrote: If you have nothing constructive to add to this post, then don't bother. If you find the OP to be too basic than don't respond. No need to be snarky. I'm still interested in hearing other people's thoughts on what I'm suggesting.
I didn't meant to be rude, my apologizes. IMO, indeed web drones came prenerfed but by the time the ennemy kill all the drones, you should have cought him or you would never had cought him anyway. And armor rigs, and armor tanking by extension, still need a review.
You're still missing the point. They're mostly useless and a total waste of 5 medium drones. If you can catch someone because of web drones, you probably could have caught him anyways. Valks only have a 2000 m/s base velocity and their EHP is bad enough that most ships will be able to one shot them. Even their sig radius is huge at 110m.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
67
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Posted - 2012.09.21 07:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:These changes may mean that the Caracal and Omen will dominate nanoing and the Thorax and Vexor will dominate close range. Leaving the Rupture as the odd man out... Sad day if it comes to past and I'm hoping the Rupture gets a 4th mid slot = (
CCP: We need to look into Rupture but it could probably use a little buff... = biggest pile of horsemanure ever posted on Eve-forums.
Rupture has always been king of t1 cruisers no matter what with it's silly dps, easy fitting, ompletely over the top armor tank and bigger drone bay than many battlecruisers. I except other "combat cruisers" to merely get to it's current level instead of further elevating rupture. |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
69
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Posted - 2012.09.21 07:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
BOOST THAT RUPTURE BABY. Also, the Bellicose is going to be interesting. Mind you, I've flown it solo way back when (2 years ago?) and had alot of fun with it. The bellicose will be on par with the Caracal it would seem. |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
330
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Posted - 2012.09.21 08:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nah . Ruppie is fine. Otherwise, it simply negates the other cruisers and their strengths. Other races need their time to shine now.
Shield Thorax. Shield Talos. There's just something seriously wrong with how CCP views ship rebalancing if all it takes to negate the value of an armor hull is adding that extra mid slot.
I just can't understand why giving a slight bonus to scram or web range isn't enough for gallente hulls? Call me a LOL RPer but it would be nice to see these hulls fly as they were meant to be. And then throw in the new T1 logi hulls, you will have some fun fleet comps.
But otherwise, a Caldari support cruiser (Osprey) repping a Gallente shield attack cruiser (Thorax) just seems wrong.
/LOL Immersion :)
Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
65
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
You still can armor tank the thorax, it will just be ineffective due to balance issue between armor and shield tank, balance issues which will be fixed soon(TM).
As for the valkyriesSW600, with skills they go to 2500m/s, and very few cruisers go beyond this speed. And in point range engagement, the velocity difference mean you will have something like 5s at best to lock the drones and kill them, or they will web you. By the time you kill them all, you will be caught. The problem is that they are a one fight weapon in this case, but there must be a way to dispose of them, or kiting would die.
Kiting is the natural counter to blasters, so its normal to feel vulnerable to it in, a blaster boat. But as some have said, there is an alternative : rail thorax. |
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
148
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Posted - 2012.09.21 11:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:You still can armor tank the thorax, it will just be ineffective due to balance issue between armor and shield tank, balance issues which will be fixed soon(TM).
As for the valkyriesSW600, with skills they go to 2500m/s, and very few cruisers go beyond this speed. And in point range engagement, the velocity difference mean you will have something like 5s at best to lock the drones and kill them, or they will web you. By the time you kill them all, you will be caught. The problem is that they are a one fight weapon in this case, but there must be a way to dispose of them, or kiting would die.
Kiting is the natural counter to blasters, so its normal to feel vulnerable to it in, a blaster boat. But as some have said, there is an alternative : rail thorax.
cough ... have u ever tried null loaded t2 te neutron thorax?
can kite pretty well too IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Superior Glokta
Inner Melody
3
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Posted - 2012.09.21 23:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Have you seen the speed of the Thorax ? Have you seen it's fourth med slot ? This ship will be *very* fast and you will be able to shield tank it to not be slower. And have you heard about lighter web drones ? A flight a 5 Valyries SW600 will slow down yout ennemy by at least 30% ! And as they go to 2500m/s with max skills, they will catch any cruiser, no matter what it does. And if you cannot catch a 30% webbed target, there's nothing to do to help you.
They are also making the Rupture even faster, so it will still be able to run circles around the new Thorax and Vexor |
Voi Lutois
Dark-Rising
11
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Posted - 2012.09.21 23:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote: cough ... have u ever tried null loaded t2 te neutron thorax?
can kite pretty well too
^what he said
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Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
573
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 23:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Superior Glokta wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Have you seen the speed of the Thorax ? Have you seen it's fourth med slot ? This ship will be *very* fast and you will be able to shield tank it to not be slower. And have you heard about lighter web drones ? A flight a 5 Valyries SW600 will slow down yout ennemy by at least 30% ! And as they go to 2500m/s with max skills, they will catch any cruiser, no matter what it does. And if you cannot catch a 30% webbed target, there's nothing to do to help you. They are also making the Rupture even faster, so it will still be able to run circles around the new Thorax and Vexor
Attack cruisers vs. Combat cruisers. The former is supposed to be faster. The Atron is to the Rifter what the Thorax will be to the Rupture. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies Nulli Secunda
79
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Posted - 2012.09.29 21:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:The reason people don't use webber drones is they came pre-nerfed. Their sig radius is huge, they are too slow, they have low hitpoints, a terrible optimal, and stacking penalties. It is disigenuous to suggest that web drones make up for armour tanked blaster boats being slow as a bucket of pus.
as i ran down a cane with my brutix using web drones. yes they suck so bad.... not. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
785
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Posted - 2012.09.29 22:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Hopefully CCP now understands that Slow armor ships with the shortest range weapon system is bad.
How I view it Gallente could be like minmatar where you have ships that armor tank and then ships that shield tank.
I do wish CCP stops giving gallente more structure and instead more armor and shield instead.
This is ensure there are an equal number of shield ships and equal number of armor ships.
Here's my field on gallente ships should be:
Drone Boats = Armored Ships
Blaster Boats = Shield Ships
The new webbing drones suck due to stacking penalties. all they have to do is flip the stats of hybrids and projectiles to be honest. though blaster minnie ships could very well break the game
|
Mirima Thurander
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
295
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Hopefully CCP now understands that Slow armor ships with the shortest range weapon system is bad.
How I view it Gallente could be like minmatar where you have ships that armor tank and then ships that shield tank.
I do wish CCP stops giving gallente more structure and instead more armor and shield instead.
This is ensure there are an equal number of shield ships and equal number of armor ships.
Here's my field on gallente ships should be:
Drone Boats = Armored Ships
Blaster Boats = Shield Ships
The new webbing drones suck due to stacking penalties. all they have to do is flip the stats of hybrids and projectiles to be honest. though blaster minnie ships could very well break the game
That sounds like the best idea ever. Ccp do this now. A Dark time comes.My time.If it offends you.Stop me. |
Mirima Thurander
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
295
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Double post A Dark time comes.My time.If it offends you.Stop me. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
148
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Posted - 2012.10.02 11:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Hopefully CCP now understands that Slow armor ships with the shortest range weapon system is bad.
How I view it Gallente could be like minmatar where you have ships that armor tank and then ships that shield tank.
I do wish CCP stops giving gallente more structure and instead more armor and shield instead.
This is ensure there are an equal number of shield ships and equal number of armor ships.
Here's my field on gallente ships should be:
Drone Boats = Armored Ships
Blaster Boats = Shield Ships
The new webbing drones suck due to stacking penalties. all they have to do is flip the stats of hybrids and projectiles to be honest. though blaster minnie ships could very well break the game That sounds like the best idea ever. Ccp do this now.
very smart ... not
so the slow/tanked gallente ships will receive kiting bonused guns and fast soft minnie will receive the close range high dps guns. Erhmmm .... IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
79
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Posted - 2012.10.02 11:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote: very smart ... not
so the slow/tanked gallente ships will receive kiting bonused guns and fast soft minnie will receive the close range high dps guns. Erhmmm ....
This. Gallente would be worse amarr boat, and minmatar would pownmachine with absolutely no counter. |
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