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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 27/07/2011 01:45:20 I know this is on the gray cusp of the Eula but,
Can I take out of game collateral for Isk loans?
Certainly they'd never know if I held a friend's skateboard hostage, but could I offer publically (here ) to loan people isk for Wold of Tanks gold as collateral?
If the loan makes sense as a stand alone business deal (i.e. business plan, player history, market interest rate) does that help ?
(if its allowed, I'll loan 1 billion isk to someone that has a good business plan and can put up marginal percentage of WoT collateral.. 3000 gold.. worth about only 1/3rd of the loan amount in the irrelevant $ purchase price terms)
Else (ok going a bit off topic in this p.s. does anyone know any clans that pay prorata gold rewards for participation?)
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Wilson Tsuruomo
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:41:00 -
[2]
If you let me hold your family as collateral I promise I'll return them minus 10% for my own payment as a third party.
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Wilson Tsuruomo If you let me hold your family as collateral I promise I'll return them minus 10% for my own payment as a third party.
You're a guy... um ... well not that there's anything wrong with that but I don't swing that way....girls must have a hollodec for me to enter.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:43:00 -
[4]
could I offer pubically (here ) to loan people isk for Wold of Tanks gold as collateral?
No.
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Jonas Xiamon
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.27 06:30:00 -
[5]
I think it's an interesting question, but I doubt it would be allowed, because allowing this would make it easy to RMT. I.E. He payed me that 500m isk as a loan, I gave him $10 bucks, and then defaulted on it. (This never happened, by the way.)
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IceFyre S18
Zulu Labs Zulu People
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:03:00 -
[6]
No. You're locked in this world, and all your toon is, have and will have starts and ends here. Be active and in some time you may build additional (not isk based) value to your name.
Hmm, little correction, only PLEX can enter safely the RL-EVE border.
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:06:00 -
[7]
As much as anything I'd sort of like a way to help some new players to the game without needing to be either too suspicious or be a stooge and get ripped off.
I know from being new (petitioning the loss of 5 t1 drones lol!) that millions are incredibly hard to come by and I wouldn't mind helping some people who've taken the time to do some research and try things out along with the game.
Still, like I said.. I don't find if fun being either paranoid nor getting ripped off.
I give away some isk sometimes to the right people.. but the loaning of isk like that would actually make the game play sort of interesting and suck me in as a mentor.
Of course there are other ways around it but having some other virtual currency worth some fraction of the loan would put a little skin in the game for them borrowerer and of course, they couldn't put up isk based things as collateral because they were new to the game.
I can see how it could be open for rmt exploitation though.
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Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/07/2011 07:16:04
EVE Search is your friend
2009: Linkage "We can only give assistance where the items or services provided are in game."
2011: Linkage "So I'm afraid any such scheme would be just against the rules."
As CCP seems to have changed its mind between these two threads (without the relevant EULA/ToS parts changing) you should better petition it yourself to find out about their current stance.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:35:00 -
[9]
It's fairly straightforward. In the event that the person to whom you've loaned ISK defaults you receive non-EVE assets for ISK... that should make it reasonably obvious how the EULA and TOS applies.
--
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 09:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jacob Holland It's fairly straightforward. In the event that the person to whom you've loaned ISK defaults you receive non-EVE assets for ISK... that should make it reasonably obvious how the EULA and TOS applies.
Well, what if there were no default clause but the loan was an interest only acruing balance loan and callable at the disgression of the lender or paid back at the disgression of the borrower?
but, yeah i know i'm being a bit "clever" (in the pejorative sense) with that.
The issue of finding some sort of collateral is a nut thats not going to be cracked any time soone I guess
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KaarBaak
Minmatar No Option Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:17:00 -
[11]
At some point someone may request using Euros or dollars as OOG collateral/interest. You run the risk of bumping into RMT issues at some point.
If isues arise, it's non-petionable obviously. And I'm sure that you'd be more than happy to accept that risk, but your clients may not.
For the most part, I think CCP's (and most other) EULAs exist because they just don't want to get involved in such a morass, not necessarily because they don't want it done. But once they allow it, it becomes a tar baby for them from which they cannot extract themselves. They don't need/want the hassle, so an outright blanket policy serves them better.
It's akin to my old question "if I pay your bar tab tonight, send me a PLEX tomorrow" (RMT?)
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:46:00 -
[12]
I'm sorry but the original question is a bit silly. Of course its not permitted. |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:08:00 -
[13]
I don't even what is this.
Please take your RMT elsewhere (and that's effectively what would be allowed if such a loan were to be arranged and then the borrower's collateral be pulled).
My third-party service My loan service My Character Purchase Program |
Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mara Villoso I'm sorry but the original question is a bit silly. Of course its not permitted.
Not empty quoting. --- Drykor - AHARM |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 23:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Mara Villoso I'm sorry but the original question is a bit silly. Of course its not permitted.
Not empty quoting.
ok ok .. it was late at night my time ... and maybe my desire for a t-54 was clouding my thinking about ways to make secure Eve loans.
Yeah, clearly any quid-pro-quo relating out of game services or assets to in game assets is against the Eula ....
... certainly RELATIONSHIPs out of game can influence your level of trust including friendships forged in other games but tieng assets in one game to another cheats the developers of both games.
I stand down 100% and admit it was late night sillyness
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Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
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Posted - 2011.07.28 02:48:00 -
[16]
Here's an interesting tidbit: every ingame station trade, contract, and market transaction is in violation of the EULA as currently written.
I've been looking over the EULA to determine what surety I can require from would-be corpmates to ensure good behavior. I came across this little gem:
EVE EULA
Originally by: "CCP" 7. CONDUCT
...
B. Selling Items and Objects You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
Earlier in the EULA, it's clear that the exception for a "permitted Character Transfer as described in Section 3 above" refers to selling characters, not items.
Originally by: "CCP" 3. ACCOUNT TRANSFER / CHARACTER TRANSFER You are not permitted to transfer your account to another person. If you wish to discontinue your account please refer to section 6. of this EULA. You may transfer a character from your account to another account, either belonging to you or another person...
Obviously the definitions of "transfer," "sell," "auction," and "buy" are key. If we assume that "sell," "auction," and "buy" are given the more limited definition of exchanging for either real-life currency or out-of-game compensation, we can weasel out of the problem. No such cop-out exists for "transfer," though. Whenever you buy something on the market, they "transfer" the item from their possession to yours, and you do the opposite with your ingame currency.
If, hypothetically, the EULA as written does indeed forbid any transaction of ingame goods or services (for either ingame or out-of-game compensation), then does Icelandic law permit selective enforcement of contracts like this? By analogy, to skirt anti-discrimination laws, a bar owner could forbid anyone from entering his business (and then just happen to not enforce it when whites come in).
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Jerry Pepridge
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Posted - 2011.07.28 05:16:00 -
[17]
if its a private deal made on comms between 2 ppl, then CCP can't do a thing about it. _________________________________________________
Misty McGinnity Doesn't have an iPhone. |
Bluebeard
Minmatar LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.31 10:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jerry Pepridge if its a private deal made on comms between 2 ppl, then CCP can't do a thing about it.
True, but if they spot a suspicious isk transfer and you then explain about the out of game items/cash during their investigation, things may not go well.
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Anya Ohaya
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Posted - 2011.08.01 01:29:00 -
[19]
What happens when the skateboard owner decides to quit and wants their skateboard back?
They could call the cops and get their board back regardless of what happened in game. Unless you got written legal contract, and even then it might be tough to enforce it. (If the kid is a minor then the contract would be invalid anyway).
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Jerry Pepridge
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Posted - 2011.08.01 01:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bluebeard
Originally by: Jerry Pepridge if its a private deal made on comms between 2 ppl, then CCP can't do a thing about it.
True, but if they spot a suspicious isk transfer and you then explain about the out of game items/cash during their investigation, things may not go well.
Pretty naive aren't we?
You think CCP the time to look at every "suspicious" transaction. lol. I sent 5b isk to a mate the other day, to help buy an SC. my reason code was "RMT", im still here.
Originally by: Anya Ohaya What happens when the skateboard owner decides to quit and wants their skateboard back?
They could call the cops and get their board back regardless of what happened in game. Unless you got written legal contract, and even then it might be tough to enforce it. (If the kid is a minor then the contract would be invalid anyway).
Please get some form of grip on reality. in trying to make yourself look smart by using big words like contract & legal, you have actually made yourself look stupid. no-one is gonna get a legal contract for in game items ... nerd.
OP can easily swap the 2 currencies, all it takes is comms, no in game mails etc. _________________________________________________
Misty McGinnity Doesn't have an iPhone. |
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