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Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
so after noticing there are over 100 pages of replies in the missile rebalance sticky, i though it would be better to make a separate topic in the hopes of it being noticed.
All nice and sexy the missile chances, really looking forward, except for 1 thing, cruise missiles and torpedos will still suck completely.
Torps still have the same range of a HAM and need 2 T2 rigs to be actually usable properly and the cruise missiles Explosion speed and travel time are still incredibly slow.
so as a question to any developer that might notice this topic, any chance those missiles will be looked at, as well? |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
118
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Probally when they redo battleships they will get looked at Ideas for drone improvement |
Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
81
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:so after noticing there are over 100 pages of replies in the missile rebalance sticky, i though it would be better to make a separate topic in the hopes of it being noticed.
All nice and sexy the missile chances, really looking forward, except for 1 thing, cruise missiles and torpedos will still suck completely.
Torps still have the same range of a HAM and need 2 T2 rigs to be actually usable properly and the cruise missiles Explosion speed and travel time are still incredibly slow.
so as a question to any developer that might notice this topic, any chance those missiles will be looked at, as well?
You overread that you will be able to use tracking computers to fix those.
Improve weapon sound effects |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:so after noticing there are over 100 pages of replies in the missile rebalance sticky, i though it would be better to make a separate topic in the hopes of it being noticed.
All nice and sexy the missile chances, really looking forward, except for 1 thing, cruise missiles and torpedos will still suck completely.
Torps still have the same range of a HAM and need 2 T2 rigs to be actually usable properly and the cruise missiles Explosion speed and travel time are still incredibly slow.
so as a question to any developer that might notice this topic, any chance those missiles will be looked at, as well? You overread that you will be able to use tracking computers to fix those.
Hmm true that, however dosnt still changes the fact that torpedos have the same range and speed than HAMs despite being of a complete different ship class. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
136
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Posted - 2012.09.20 23:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Indeed Torpedoes ranges are very short.
All the Large weapons have longer ranges than medium weapons. How come torpedoes don't have more range than their medium counter part HAMs? |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Indeed Torpedoes ranges are very short.
All the Large weapons have longer ranges than medium weapons. How come torpedoes don't have more range than their medium counter part HAMs?
That's my point precisely, Torps having higher damage is not exactly usefull when you hit at the same range for better aplication with HAMS on smaller and cheaper ships. |
Galphii
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
64
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Posted - 2012.09.21 05:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pretty sure the devs are working as hard as they can atm; expect changes to BS weapons after this expansion. |
McBrideCZ
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 08:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would really appreciate torpedos to be changed something like this:
Slightly reduced damage Increased range Increased explosion velocity Decreased explosion radius
This will make them more usefull as now they hit for full dmg only on structures or MWD'ing shield tanked BS's. Applied damage on common targets should be better. |
Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
82
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Large blasters have an even shorter range while still being quite popular. I doubt the range is the real problem of torpedoes. I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth? |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:Large blasters have an even shorter range while still being quite popular. I doubt the range is the real problem of torpedoes.
do large blasters have the same range than medium blasters? :) nope they dont, they have quite longer range than medium blasters. |
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Gustav Mannfred
The Black Suicidegankers
36
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Posted - 2012.09.21 15:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Iris Bravemount wrote:Large blasters have an even shorter range while still being quite popular. I doubt the range is the real problem of torpedoes. do large blasters have the same range than medium blasters? :) nope they dont, they have quite longer range than medium blasters.
blasters have almost the same range then autocannons, a few ships have fallof bonus. They can hit over 50 km on a rokh.
however, i agree, to increase torpedorange. +50% speed. (from 1500ms to 2250 ms) then they have 50% more range then hams. i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183 |
Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
82
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Posted - 2012.09.21 15:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:They can hit over 50 km on a rokh.
Haha... yeah, with no tank fitted, you probably can hit at 50km for 50% of your long range ammo damage. Just like a Raven with javelin torps can hit out to 45km before rigs and tracking computers/enhancers (which will affect missiles this winter).
Ager Agemo wrote:do large blasters have the same range than medium blasters?
Do HAMs have the same range than medium blasters? No, medium blasters have even lower range. basically you are saying that HAMs have too much range.
I think the problem with (caldari) torpedo boats is that they are too slow to cope with their range. I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth? |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
so... to get to 60km range you have to triple rig your ship use tech 2 long range ammo, on a bonused ship, fit 3 Navy BCUs a Coprocesor, and torps dont need a buff?
not to mention, even with the target painter, those torpedos would hit for less than half the damage other battleships, meaning they do less than 300 dps and that at their current travel speeds, ship can literally kite out of their range or just orbit without being hit.
you seem to forget torps have explosion radius of 400m, and explosion speeds of 90ms even with maxed skills.
also a rokh can hit well over 60kms with blasters keeping a tank well beyond that of any galente subcapital ship. |
Aaron Greil
Royal Imperial Navy Reserves
32
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Posted - 2012.09.21 21:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would encourage you to read about the tech 2 ammo changes as well as the TE/TC buff. I don't think its reasonable to see torps and cruises rebalanced until battleships get looked at, but even so, the very nature of having TEs effect missiles means that torps will both go longer and hit small targets better. Personally I am quite excited to see how a navy scorp will do with a couple tracking enhancers. |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.22 01:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aaron Greil wrote:I would encourage you to read about the tech 2 ammo changes as well as the TE/TC buff. I don't think its reasonable to see torps and cruises rebalanced until battleships get looked at, but even so, the very nature of having TEs effect missiles means that torps will both go longer and hit small targets better. Personally I am quite excited to see how a navy scorp will do with a couple tracking enhancers. CNS being my favorite ship, i m sorta imagining dual tracked enhanced ASB CNSs becoming powerfull pvp ships like those of the machariel, bhaalgorn or vindicator |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
293
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Posted - 2012.09.22 05:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
While cruise suck, it's the entire platform. Aurora, Spike and Tremor all suck as well. |
Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
83
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Posted - 2012.09.22 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:so... to get to 60km range you have to triple rig your ship use tech 2 long range ammo, on a bonused ship, fit 3 Navy BCUs a Coprocesor, and torps dont need a buff?
not to mention, even with the target painter, those torpedos would hit for less than half the damage other battleships, meaning they do less than 300 dps and that at their current travel speeds, ship can literally kite out of their range or just orbit without being hit.
you seem to forget torps have explosion radius of 400m, and explosion speeds of 90ms even with maxed skills.
also a rokh can hit well over 60kms with blasters keeping a tank well beyond that of any galente subcapital ship.
It was just a proof of concept. I don't think torps should have 60km range in "regular" situations.
I used the Raven because it's the only ship having problems with torpedoes and yes, it's a bonused platform, but so is the Rokh. Claiming 60km range on a Rokh is just as ridiculous. See below.
[Rokh, Blaster Range] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
DPS at 60km with maxed out skills : 450, drones included. On a side note, even with the cap booster running all the time, the tank runs dry in 7 minutes, but the raven has similar issues. I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth? |
Meolyne
los tabarnakos Ouate de Phoque
17
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Posted - 2012.09.22 17:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
You seems to forget that a 40km target, you will have :
- Defender missiles, a plague especially on Golem with 4 launchers - Overspeed Battleship, which can be compensated by TP bonuses (50% sig/module) . With TE introduction, TP will die, so probably no real advantage. - On cruisers and less : PLEASE ! tell me how the H*** you do with your mighty TE to hit a cruiser @ 190m/s and 130m sig radius. Explo radius on T2 Rage torp is 650m. T2 Fury Cruise = 320m with Rigs T2/implants 5%. I don't mention explo velocity which is worse.. - Delayed damage. You hit your button, awaits 3 secs, the missile effectively launchs, travels, and hit. if you use grouped weapons, each target destroyed will usually waste 2 cycles.
Malus are simply stacking for cruise and torps. Giving DMG bonuse on theses are fun, but pretty useless.
IRL : Cruise = long range big slow missile, deadly and precise on stationary targets Torp = very slow, semi-guided active sonar short dumb weapon with a diminished area of effect.
In Game : it's quite well applied by definition. But in eve, everything moves faster than a F-15 or a Los-Angeles.
Anyway, i've just trained Gallente and Minie BS and guns. Caldari and missiles smells the end. it's sad, but i support the Devs. Nerfing all round is better than Buffing evverything. I've understood that with Blizz.
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Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
100
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Posted - 2012.09.23 01:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
2 things, first a rokh will use an ancillary shield booster, no need for amplifier nor for a cap booster, now yes a rokh does as you said 400 dps at 60kms... however get closer to it, and you wiill be hitting by about 700 dps without drones
Torps will hit for 100 damage at 1km, at 20 kms and 40 kms, and at 60kms.
as a last thing, you said using blasters on a rokh is ridiculous right? isnt it the same using Torps on raven? whats the difference?
since you are soooo interested on using EFT check a fitting like this:
[Rokh, RAILGUN] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Vespa II x5
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Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
83
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Posted - 2012.09.23 03:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote: as a last thing, you said using blasters on a rokh is ridiculous right?
Never said that. I meant using blasters and expecting 60km range is. (same for torps actually, but that's about to change) I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth? |
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